RTG return to player percentages

[Simmo!]

My memory may not be so good on this, but I believe a pretty famous OP named "The Pirate" fairly won a huge bundle from a highly respected well known RTG casino, and the operator who certainly stood by RTG's software, promptly paid out within 24 hours.

The classic thread of all time here at CM: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rtgs-caribbean-21-lie.3458/

And he wasn't paid that quick, far from it - the plot evolves in that thread - but it probably adds weight to the argument that RTG operators can't alter the odds on a player basis

The best skill in online gambling is knowing when to hit the cash out button.

Never a truer word

 

[Simmo!]

Hmm..pagination issue. Just testing.

 

[kenneth2816]

Simmo, if I am not mistaken, he won 55K from Sci Fi or the other RTG they operate and was promptly paid without question

 

[KasinoKing]

Software companies have a vested interest in controlling the quality of their brand.
They do not get paid a percentage of profits, so it is NOT in their interest to allow on site manipulation by dodgy operators.

Are you 100% sure about that?
I think it's extremely likely that some/all software houses DO get a percentage of profits - though I don't know that for sure either.

KK

 

[kenneth2816]

KK

I'm not 100% sure about anything when it comes to online casinos.

It was what I was told by an informed source who has a track record of being both knowledgeable and accurate.

Let me ask you this though. You've been around a long time. Has there been ONE software company that HAS NOT been accused multiple times of being "rigged"?

Yes, any software program (note ROGRAM) can be written to perform within certain parameters. But again, the real issue seems always to be non payment.

I've questioned software myself, NEVER when I win though. I am on record as not being a big fan of RTG. Seems RTG attracts the cream of the crop when it comes to dodgy operators, but that is just my opinion.

 

[Simmo!]

Simmo, if I am not mistaken, he won 55K from Sci Fi or the other RTG they operate and was promptly paid without question

(Breakaway?) Ah must be a different case/thread then

 

[kenneth2816]

Yeah Simmo, Breakaway I could not recall....

real class people at those two casinos.

 

[bryand]

Let me add a twist to this discussion. Is it really possible for any online casino to payout 95% on slots? I think not as a matter of simple math.

Let's take one of the best RTG's as an example. InetBet

Each player can use 1 deposit bonus a month for 100% with 20(d+b) WR and other 50% match bonuses with same WR. Players also get comp points (about 1% of wagering I believe) and receive a manager's bonus each month with low WR. And birthday and holiday free chips. Inet has to pay license fees to RTG and usual overhead. The numbers do not add up.

I contend the actual cashout rate is around 70% to 75%.

 

[Mavin1]

Almost all casinos on the rogue list here and other forums are there because of not paying out. Seems to me if RTG was rigged, pay outs would not be problematic since the allegations is control of game outcome to the casino's advantage.

Software companies have a vested interest in controlling the quality of their brand. They do not get paid a percentage of profits, so it is NOT in their interest to allow on site manipulation by dodgy operators. RTG traditionally has held to this line when approached directly about certain operators: we make the software, we cannot control who does and does not pay out.




I have decided to start looking at Rogue listings and compile some of the reasons why a casino or group gets rogued. It is certainly not always about non payment, that is just the most vocalized problem.
Also, keep in mind most and many casinos that are now rogued were very likely promoted, heralded and welcomed on the scene just as I see the same being done on this site when a new casino pops up and the buzz is all about the free chips and ooh have you tried it and yadda yadda yadda, thus the stampede goes on again.

Here is a small sampling from one site of why casinos and groups have been rogued. Between each reason is the casinos, which I didn't bother to copy as only the reasons are pertinent.

From:
Gamesandcasino

Run, run! They manipulate whether you win or not from the backend. They set it to make a certain profit and so you are doomed from the start.

Video poker can be set to payout fixed percentages that are not reflected in the payout tables. Multiple complaints of non-payment by players:

Clock Media admitted that early versions of their software had switches programmed in to cheat; admitted lack of control over programmer who stole player list:

MGM Inc.software which can be set to exclude generating certain hands of video poker In an independent study of this software one has come to the conclusion that the games offered by this company are not random in nature.

 

[TOC]

What happened to casinojack? I hate to say I told you so, what 2 days ago?

 

[Casinomeister]

What happened to casinojack? I hate to say I told you so, what 2 days ago?

I'm still waiting for him to get back to me with additional information.

 

[TOC]

I'm still waiting for him to get back to me with additional information.

Very much appreciated! Look forward to the update..

 

[KasinoKing]

Let me add a twist to this discussion. Is it really possible for any online casino to payout 95% on slots? I think not as a matter of simple math.

Let's take one of the best RTG's as an example. InetBet

Each player can use 1 deposit bonus a month for 100% with 20(d+b) WR and other 50% match bonuses with same WR. Players also get comp points (about 1% of wagering I believe) and receive a manager's bonus each month with low WR. And birthday and holiday free chips. Inet has to pay license fees to RTG and usual overhead. The numbers do not add up.

I contend the actual cashout rate is around 70% to 75%.

I disagree - I think the numbers DO add up.

Let's take your 100% bonus as an example:-
Player deposits $100 and gets $100 bonus - starts with $200.
Wagering (D+B)x20 = $4,000
$4,000 x 95% = $200 lost.
So the player busts out completely by the time they make WR - the casino has made $100 profit.

Of course, it's more likely that the slots are set to one of the lower % settings; 91% or 94% - so the player will probably bust out well before WR.
If the bonus is Phantom you're pretty much doomed from the moment you hit the "Deposit" button...

That's why I prefer to take cashable bonuses with WR no more than (D+B)x15 for slots which pay 95% to 96% like Rival or MG.

KK

 

[Casinomeister]

That's why I prefer to take cashable bonuses with WR no more than (D+B)x15 for slots which pay 95% to 96% like Rival or MG.

KK

Or take no bonus at all

 

[nisosbar]

Or take no bonus at all

The majority of my deposits are with no bonus because the terms are so punitive that it's not worth it - i.e., max cash outs, extremely high WR's. Many players, I suppose, do not read the fine print.

 

[RobWin]

Top Game has that chat pop up such a pain
doesnt English Harbour do it tooo?

Cindy

Hey Cindy, sorry I missed this question before...As far as I know I have never really seen it at Caribbean Gold Casino where I play at fairly frequently.
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[Simmo!]

The majority of my deposits are with no bonus because the terms are so punitive that it's not worth it - i.e., max cash outs, extremely high WR's. Many players, I suppose, do not read the fine print.

Same. Although I did get one auto-credited the other day (246 on a 200 deposit) and I couldn't be arsed to ask for it to be removed so I said "sod it, bet big, win or bust". Which I guess plays right into the hands of the casino. Or at least, it would have done if I hadn't hit 5 castles with Thor in the free spins on Thunderstruck for 3,000. Ground it out from there, ended up with 2k on the cashout

 

[Wildfire7]

Same. Although I did get one auto-credited the other day (246 on a 200 deposit) and I couldn't be arsed to ask for it to be removed so I said "sod it, bet big, win or bust". Which I guess plays right into the hands of the casino. Or at least, it would have done if I hadn't hit 5 castles with Thor in the free spins on Thunderstruck for 3,000. Ground it out from there, ended up with 2k on the cashout

Good old Thunderstruck! Still as good as it ever was, rarely lets you down, my kind of slot. Definately not rigged this slot Simmo!

MG bring out all these new games with amazing twists yet the old tri of Thor, Ladies and Spring break are still unsurpassed for entertainment value.
A bit like my brother, got a 40 inch HD plasma, 6 way speaker system and watches old grainy black and white films on it!

Mike

 

[nisosbar]

Same. Although I did get one auto-credited the other day (246 on a 200 deposit) and I couldn't be arsed to ask for it to be removed so I said "sod it, bet big, win or bust". Which I guess plays right into the hands of the casino. Or at least, it would have done if I hadn't hit 5 castles with Thor in the free spins on Thunderstruck for 3,000. Ground it out from there, ended up with 2k on the cashout

Heehee! That'll show 'em, lol.

 

[Casinomeister]

Anyway, here is the scoop. I've collected enough information from other operators and RTG to make sense of this.

When RTG releases new games, operators - and I mean the actual owners or the executive team - are allowed to choose the games' RTP. This is true with many software providers. There is a parameter (as discussed forum wide) 95% is the default - low end is 91.5%- high 97%. (BTW the minimum payout in Nevada is 75%, and in New Jersey, 83%)

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Once these are set - they are set. If an operator wishes to have these changed, he has to request this change via RTG. Approval process can take days, but may be shorter depending on the circumstances.

Things that can't be done - changes cannot be made during sessions. The player has to log out and back in again before any changes can take place. Operators cannot manipulate the games, player winnings, progressive hits, winning or losing streaks. These are just very volatile slots.

Bottom line is, the software is not "rigged". No one is pulling strings to affect game play. Players need to remember the mantra "The house always wins in the end" - it's up to the player to be disciplined enough to know when to cash out.

Thread title changed to reflect the non-riggedness.

 

[4 of a kind]

Thanks for details Bryan. That's a lot more comforting to know. Did CasinoJack have anything to say about this?

 

[Casinomeister]

Thanks for details Bryan. That's a lot more comforting to know. Did CasinoJack have anything to say about this?

I think he's said about all he wanted to say in the forum. There is not much to add.

 

[RobWin]

Anyway, here is the scoop. I've collected enough information from other operators and RTG to make sense of this.

Was this an "Official Statement" or Release from RTG itself to you regarding this answer?

Is there an official spokeperson from RTG that you were in touch with here?

I'm not questioning your truthfulness at all but it would give credence to the claim and fact as stated if we all knew exactly who this is from at RTG and their official role there you know.

Or was this merely an off the record type of statement from RTG?
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[Casinomeister]

...

Or was this merely an off the record type of statement from RTG?
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If it was off the record, then I wouldn't be posting it now would I

It was directly from RTG. Some of the operators comments had already been posted with their permission.

 

[RobWin]

If it was off the record, then I wouldn't be posting it now would I

It was directly from RTG. Some of the operators comments had already been posted with their permission.

No, you mis-understood what I meant by "off the record"...I just kinda figured since you did not mention the RTG spoke persons name and their role there at RTG, that it was not official.

You know Transparency and all that jazz..
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