RTG return to player percentages

Not one of the many affiliates on this site that promote RTG weighted in on this topic with any input what so ever.
Well actually I think I was one of the first to go :eek: WTF...!

Playing online I really dont think that is the case- IT really seems if you have luck on a machine and then move on those stats will move over to the next machine your on, this shouldnt be the case
I don't think anyone is saying that is the case, are they?

Surely no-one seriously thinks there are people sitting in the casino HQ watching how you play and what wins you have, and then adjusting the RTP of the next slot you play so they can win it back...! :eek2:

I just wanted to add that I really appreciate everything CasinoJack has posted and I'm horrified that some people are attacking him and could potentially drive him away from the forum. We have been waiting YEARS to get some valuable inside information like he has given us. We may not like what we are reading, but at least we ARE reading what DOES go on behind the scenes, rather than the pointless speculation most RTG threads are full of.

KK
 
Just an FYI.

I'm in the process of getting some straight answers on this. As far as I know, Casinojack has been making some false claims - and yes, he is an aff manager - not an operator.

Why rush to judgment on Casinojack, he is one of the few RTG Reps here who has more than tried to be straight forward and honest in his posts to the membership here.

I personally don't think there are many players left in the online casino world that are naive enough to believe that operators cannot change the RTP percentages at the various software platforms.

What about the proprietary softwares like 3Dice for example, are we as players to believe that Enzo or whoever for that matter cannot change the RTP percentages on their proprietary platform?

Why should that be different for the other casino software operators to be able to do the same?

I would have to spend some time going back to find the specific threads and posts but Casinojack is not the first RTG guy to allude to the fact that they can change these RTP percentages on their end.

And if they can infact change the RTP on their end, does that make them rogue? I personally don't think so because I believe they all can do it. We finally just have a guy here that actually admits to it and is honest about it.

From another operator:

Quote:
...the slot games can be set to the 3 different percentages. Ours are set at the middle setting 95% on all games when released. These are not altered so I dont have much experience with making changes.

If I remember correctly when they first introduced the Real Series Slots way back when the Casino could adjust the settings of the slots in the admin. It then informed RTG and the changes were made. I believe now, as you say, it has to be done via a direct request to RTG.

I see that this guy was intimating that they could change the % on an individual account. This is also not the case. If any change were to be made it would be Casino wide and applicable to everyone playing...

Casinojack clarified that in this post here....So that operator mis-understood or did not bother to read far enough into the other thread.

One more time


Say I asked you what is your favorite slot, and I set this machine to 97%

ALL players then have the same shot. How is this unfair?

IT IS FOR ALL, I think you are thinking I set this at the player level. In this thought your are incorrect, I set the machine and all players playing these slots have the same shot.

I just wanted to add that I really appreciate everything CasinoJack has posted and I'm horrified that some people are attacking him and could potentially drive him away from the forum. We have been waiting YEARS to get some valuable inside information like he has given us. We may not like what we are reading, but at least we ARE reading what DOES go on behind the scenes, rather than the pointless speculation most RTG threads are full of.

KK

I absolutely agree with you KK, the way this thread was and has been presented toward Casinojack is a damn shame IMO!


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KasinoKing:Surely no-one seriously thinks there are people sitting in the casino HQ watching how you play and what wins you have, and then adjusting the RTP of the next slot you play so they can win it back...!
KK, you just reminded me of something very strange that happened last week.

I was playing at one casino and I cannot remember if it was an RTG or not...but as I was playing , a window popped up with live chat and I was asked right in the middle of my winning streak...if I wanted to deposit more money to get a bigger bonus since they see I am winning...they said I had that moment while talking to the cs live chat to make my decision...of course I said no, why should I , I am up a lot and he said I could be up a lot more with more funds in my account..this seemed strange to me at the time...but I said do not ask in the middle of my play again..

After closing that window down, it was all downhill...600+ spins later, not one bonus or free spin round to be had..

I will say this again, I cannot remember if it was an RTG or not...but it was definitely one of the accredited casinos..this happened about a week ago and I asked my husband to come see what is happening and he also couldn't believe what the cs was asking and saying and he couldn't believe that they could see how much you were winning and track your play as the cs stated...but I now believe they can!

Maybe this has something to do with that little button you check when signing up for Instand Chat notification thingy (I really do not know what it is but it is there for them to contact you )

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KK, you just reminded me of something very strange that happened last week.

I was playing at one casino and I cannot remember if it was an RTG or not...but as I was playing , a window popped up with live chat and I was asked right in the middle of my winning streak...if I wanted to deposit more money to get a bigger bonus since they see I am winning...they said I had that moment while talking to the cs live chat to make my decision...of course I said no, why should I , I am up a lot and he said I could be up a lot more with more funds in my account..this seemed strange to me at the time...but I said do not ask in the middle of my play again..

After closing that window down, it was all downhill...600+ spins later, not one bonus or free spin round to be had..

I will say this again, I cannot remember if it was an RTG or not...but it was definitely one of the accredited casinos..this happened about a week ago and I asked my husband to come see what is happening and he also couldn't believe what the cs was asking and saying and he couldn't believe that they could see how much you were winning and track your play as the cs stated...but I now believe they can!

Maybe this has something to do with that little button you check when signing up for Instand Caht thingy (I really do not know what it is but it is there for them to contact you )

.

I wish you could remember which casino this was at so you could name and shame. This is utterly rogue behavior, and I certainly would never play there again. Not only would this cause utter confusion in regards to WR, but why be tied into additional WR in the first place? :rolleyes:

What do casino employees take us for? A bunch of schmucks? Are we that stupid to think we'll win more just because we have a higher balance? All that would accomplish is busting out faster by raising the stakes....

But anyways, it could just be the variance kicking in, but the timing is pretty damning and seems very fishy.
 
...but as I was playing , a window popped up with live chat and I was asked right in the middle of my winning streak...if I wanted to deposit more money to get a bigger bonus since they see I am winning...

.

$1 says that was a Playtech casino. Double or quits says support is being run out of Israel (or Costa Rica if it wasnt PT) :D
 
$1 says that was a Playtech casino. Double or quits says support is being run out of Israel (or Costa Rica if it wasnt PT) :D

That sounds about right now that I think about it. I remember back in the pre-UIGEA days when you would get a nice little chat popup the instant you logged in for the first time. It was the CSR trying to shove a deposit bonus down your throat.

This didn't happen at all PT casinos, but still happened at a good % of them...

Needless to say I never deposited at those casinos....
 
A few months back I posted a thread about a change in the reel layout of Fruit Frenzy at Doyle's casino.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/fruit-frenzy-layout-at-doyles-hmmm.33284/

It brought to light that changes can be made that will affect RTP...whether it's a change that can be made on the casino operators end, or a request that only RTG can implement is yet to be known. It also brought up the question of whether or not changes can be made on individual games or if it's a "global" change for all games. The jury is still out on most of these questions, but as a player I have the ability to choose where I play. If a casino I've played at suddenly changes the reel layouts, I simply stop playing there. I have no definitive proof that changing reel layouts is making it more profitable for the casino, or if it's to the players advantage...all I know is that something changed from before, and that makes me uncomfortable.

Since posting my earlier thread about Doyles/Fruit Frenzy, two other casinos I used to play at have made the same changes; Grande Vegas, and now Casino Titan. There are many other RTG's I won't play at, because all I have to do it open Fruit Frenzy to see what the reel layout is (two pear symbols in-line with each other on reel 2).

If you want to take a stand, stop depositing at places that have made the changes, and send (diplomatic) emails to casino managers stating you have taken your business elsewhere because of those changes. It will send a message that we're NOT ignorant to changes that make us question where we play.
 
Don't think it would have been a Playtech Casino since Silc is in the USA..;)
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Sh!t. She said "left Hungary". I can't afford to be wrong on this. That's $2 I stand to lose :eek:

Aha....USA eh? OK - * settlements payable by Neteller only
 
I don't think this is a derail but if poster think it is I didn't mean it to be.

I just had the strangest thing happen while playing at one of the accredited RTG's here.

Made my deposit and started playing, lowrolling at $.50. Hit a little here, little there. Was playing Green Light and hit 4 green lights. Make a long story short, got 25 spins, retrigger for 20 more. When I finished the free spins, I played a couple of other spins on the same game, same bet. All of a sudden the casino freezes and game just keeps spinning. Had the exit out of casino all together. Took about 4 times of trying to get back in for it to open. Then I get a lobby update. After that I couldn't hit diddly. Nothing. Not only did I not get a bonus, I didn't even get any decent line spins. I just found this really strange.

Also, I have had the CS at another accredited RTG ask me to tell them which games I liked to play and they would tell me if they were 'hot' or not. Now how the devil would they know 'hot' or not?

Things just get stranger and stranger. :eek2:
 
$1 says that was a Playtech casino.
Nope, can't play them anymore :mad:
Don't think it would have been a Playtech Casino since Silc is in the USA..
Yeppers!
Sh!t. She said "left Hungary". I can't afford to be wrong on this. That's $2 I stand to lose

Aha....USA eh? OK - * settlements payable by Neteller only
Wanna split 50/50 Rob? :rolleyes:

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Why rush to judgment on Casinojack, he is one of the few RTG Reps here who has more than tried to be straight forward and honest in his posts to the membership here.
No rush on judgment, but from what I know he has made some incorrect statements. But I am still looking into this - please don't forget this thread is less than 24 hours old and some of the people I need to speak with are spread out all over the place.

I would have to spend some time going back to find the specific threads and posts but Casinojack is not the first RTG guy to allude to the fact that they can change these RTP percentages on their end...
That's what I've been doing - it's time consuming and this ain't the only thing on my plate today.

I absolutely agree with you KK, the way this thread was and has been presented toward Casinojack is a damn shame IMO!
Are your referring to the OP's claim that RTG cheats, or to me trying to get the facts straight? I'm just trying to gather as much information as I can.
 
No rush on judgment, but from what I know he has made some incorrect statements. But I am still looking into this - please don't forget this thread is less than 24 hours old and some of the people I need to speak with are spread out all over the place.


That's what I've been doing - it's time consuming and this ain't the only thing on my plate today.


Are your referring to the OP's claim that RTG cheats, or to me trying to get the facts straight? I'm just trying to gather as much information as I can.

Yea, the OP's claim that RTG cheats...

You know I applaud you for trying to get the facts straight. That's the one thing we need more of along with more transparency of course.
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I think declaring outright that RTG is rigged is probably much too strong a term to use. If something is "rigged" then it must involve beyond all reasonable doubt an element of deception and cheating to dramatically tilt the balance of fortune from the house to the player.

Some of these Ops and affiliate managers must feel like politicians when they post on here, everyone hanging onto their every word, hoping they will slip up so the knives can be sharpened. In the field of gambling there will always be many who will rally to the cause. Partly through bitterness, also partly because they have been convinced that RTG is rigged, even though they never once even thought about it before.

Casino Jack is not an official spokesman for RTG, he is one individual who has made some ill judged comments that should be taken with a pinch of a salt.

Yes Casino Jack on the Playfair thread did make some odd remarks, such as asking the player what his 3 favourite games were, so he could see if he could get the settings changed. This was naive and misguided of him and obviously didn't realise the negative accusations this would cause. Casino Jack in his commentary on that thread did go on to explain that the RTP was a universal change for all players globally, so one player wouldn't benefit as 4 of akind mentions in this thread.

I have always been of the opinion that no casino in the world should need to cheat as the house edge is more than enough to grind players down eventually.

RTG as discussed in the playfair thread at length, needs to address the issue of multiple RTP settings and getting them published. The fact that these we know can be changed does not mean we are getting a rigged game. Surely if the casino wanted to they could fix the setting to be permanently set on the lowest. This however is not done because we know it is sometimes higher. Surely if it were rigged it would be much better to set it low and leave it.

Mike
 
Why rush to judgment on Casinojack, he is one of the few RTG Reps here who has more than tried to be straight forward and honest in his posts to the membership here.

I absolutely agree with you KK, the way this thread was and has been presented toward Casinojack is a damn shame IMO!


RobWin: If you believe CasinoJack is being straight forward and honest, and don't find his quotes obscene, I'm not sure how I can't possibly find your response a damn shame.

Bryan, I appreciate your time trying to get to the bottom of his quotes. Obviously you would like an explanation also.

I admit tagging this thread RTG Rigged, was some what over the top. I was just shocked that no one questioned these comments in the playfair thread. Rigged seems to get the eyes of everyone and maybe I took it a little to far. If you feel this thread should be renamed please correct.

Wildfire7: What I quoted in my post is exactly what CJ said, not the twist you put on his quotes in your thread.



It appears that Bryan is already confirming that CJ is just talking out of his butt about what he can do. If this is the case then he is misleading everyone he speaks to here.

He's a casino rep. here with title and all that comes with his name. I made a stink out of it cause of that. If it were just a random poster I would have just looked at it as a random poster.

If a rep wants to come here and talk crap and the select few that are okay with that and are coming to his aid, then so be it. But I would assume that most here don't like playing with crap while our money is being used for toilet paper. The cesspool fills quick enough playing online.
 
I think declaring outright that RTG is rigged is probably much too strong a term to use. If something is "rigged" then it must involve beyond all reasonable doubt an element of deception and cheating to dramatically tilt the balance of fortune from the house to the player.

Some of these Ops and affiliate managers must feel like politicians when they post on here, everyone hanging onto their every word, hoping they will slip up so the knives can be sharpened. In the field of gambling there will always be many who will rally to the cause. Partly through bitterness, also partly because they have been convinced that RTG is rigged, even though they never once even thought about it before.

Casino Jack is not an official spokesman for RTG, he is one individual who has made some ill judged comments that should be taken with a pinch of a salt.

Yes Casino Jack on the Playfair thread did make some odd remarks, such as asking the player what his 3 favourite games were, so he could see if he could get the settings changed. This was naive and misguided of him and obviously didn't realise the negative accusations this would cause. Casino Jack in his commentary on that thread did go on to explain that the RTP was a universal change for all players globally, so one player wouldn't benefit as 4 of akind mentions in this thread.

I have always been of the opinion that no casino in the world should need to cheat as the house edge is more than enough to grind players down eventually.

RTG as discussed in the playfair thread at length, needs to address the issue of multiple RTP settings and getting them published. The fact that these we know can be changed does not mean we are getting a rigged game. Surely if the casino wanted to they could fix the setting to be permanently set on the lowest. This however is not done because we know it is sometimes higher. Surely if it were rigged it would be much better to set it low and leave it.

Mike


But then if they did do that without throwing in some highs, everyone would know beyond a doubt and no one would be playing and it would not be the big business it is now. Just like what I have seen at the land based, a popular new slot that you can't ever get to try because people are always on them, suddenly you notice people won't touch them anymore, why, because they changed the RTP. So since the game/machine is no longer trusted they have to replace them.
 
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Many years ago I played on Windows Casino(RTG).It was before I knew that this forum did exist,and was not aware that it was a "rogue casino".
One day I received a mail from them that the slot "7's Inferno" (I don't remember the name exactly) was very hot.They mentioned that from time to time they inform loyal players about "hot slots".

I made a deposit and started playing that slot,and indeed I did win almost every spin.I guess it lasted about 15 minutes and then it was back to normal again.

I am sure that RTG casino operators can change the payout, and in my case it was much higher than 97%, but only for a limited time.
I am also convinced they can do it the other way too : lower the payout if you are winning too much.

So yes, I agree that RTG casino's are (or can be) rigged.That is also the reason I don't play them anymore.
 
The biggest mistake I think players make is comparing a software program to the same statistical outcomes as RT "live" play, such as in probabilities on Black Jack. Software is written and it IS a "program."

I doubt RTG is "rigged". To me, "rigged" means there is a program design which either can be manipulated manually or has written into it, a predetermined outcome, which is NOT random.

My memory may not be so good on this, but I believe a pretty famous OP named "The Pirate" fairly won a huge bundle from a highly respected well known RTG casino, and the operator who certainly stood by RTG's software, promptly paid out within 24 hours.

Can operators view individual player's gaming as it occurs? Probably. But since most casino software is on a remote main frame, I doubt individual operators can enter a code, hit a button and interrupt game play.

Almost all casinos on the rogue list here and other forums are there because of not paying out. Seems to me if RTG was rigged, pay outs would not be problematic since the allegations is control of game outcome to the casino's advantage.

We have all experienced "streakiness", big wins following by numerous spins of nothing....all casinos I've ever played at exhibit these. The other day I signed on one of my casinos and hit the "free spin" feature FOUR times in 31 spins. I don't know how to account for this, just know it is not abnormal.

The problem comes in when my own "rigged" brain chemistry reverts to magical thinking and I believe my lucky streak should continue.

Software companies have a vested interest in controlling the quality of their brand. They do not get paid a percentage of profits, so it is NOT in their interest to allow on site manipulation by dodgy operators. RTG traditionally has held to this line when approached directly about certain operators: we make the software, we cannot control who does and does not pay out.

Now, personally, I've NEVER cashed out a dime from an RTG casino. But I do seem to see an unusual amount of brand new RTG's coming on line lately, but I attribute this to RTG's decision not to ignore the US market and the expanded game platform. I love "Triple Twister" and yes, I'm still trying to make my first RTG cash out.

If RTG is rigged, all casinos are rigged. The best skill in online gambling is knowing when to hit the cash out button.

RTG has been around far too long and there are far too many excellent operators out there who have stuck with them for me to believe their platforms are "rigged". Like it has been said numerous times before, an online casino does not have to change a thing to eventually come out on the winning side.
 
Im thinking i should really get in to casino jacks friends circle, if im having a bad time losing at his casino's i can just PM him to know which slots are set at the highest payouts and play those, :D
its just wrong IMO that any rep should be able to do this, unless its common knowledge that everybody knows,

I reviewed your account, and I see what is usually a good run based on feedback from players, about 6 hours of play time. If you you like I can dig deeper for you, or I am able to PM you slots that are set the highest, 97.5% and you can try your luck there.

next time you do, Pm me you top 3 games you like and I will make sure they set to the highest setting...
 

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