RTG return to player percentages

[KasinoKing]

There is a parameter (as discussed forum wide) 95% is the default - low end is 91.5%- high 97%.

Those figures are not precisely right; the low is 91%, medium is 94% or 95% and the high is 97.5%.
Also, not all their slots have all three settings; the majority have only medium and high RTP, whilst some others only have low and medium.

KK

 

[kenneth2816]

Thanks Bryan. One can only speculate as to the motives of "Casino Jack". I am content that your reputation would not allow you to mislead us; nor do I believe you are gullible enough to be misled yourself.

Now could you kindly furnish us a list of those 97% games>>>>

 

[Casinomeister]

Thanks Bryan. One can only speculate as to the motives of "Casino Jack". I am content that your reputation would not allow you to mislead us; nor do I believe you are gullible enough to be misled yourself.

Now could you kindly furnish us a list of those 97% games>>>>

Actually, I think he had good intentions if you read back through his posts. The thing is he should have never had this level of permissions, and you can see where something like this could be abused.

As for the 97% - you're still going to lose in the end -

 

[bryand]

I disagree - I think the numbers DO add up.

Let's take your 100% bonus as an example:-
Player deposits $100 and gets $100 bonus - starts with $200.
Wagering (D+B)x20 = $4,000
$4,000 x 95% = $200 lost.
So the player busts out completely by the time they make WR - the casino has made $100 profit.

Of course, it's more likely that the slots are set to one of the lower % settings; 91% or 94% - so the player will probably bust out well before WR.
If the bonus is Phantom you're pretty much doomed from the moment you hit the "Deposit" button...

That's why I prefer to take cashable bonuses with WR no more than (D+B)x15 for slots which pay 95% to 96% like Rival or MG.

KK

I'm not sure you understood the entirety of my post.

 

[kakata]

5% wouldnt be enough to cover all the 'expenses' they have....( ithink that's what Bryand meant)

 

[RobWin]

Just an FYI.

I'm in the process of getting some straight answers on this. As far as I know, Casinojack has been making some false claims - and yes, he is an aff manager - not an operator.

Actually, I think he had good intentions if you read back through his posts. The thing is he should have never had this level of permissions, and you can see where something like this could be abused.

Well hell, I guess I'm still not finished with this thread here...not just yet anyway. I still think we need some more clear answers to a few things and some statements that were made here...

Bryan, in the first quote above you state that Casinojack is only an affiliate manager and not an operator...do you know this for a fact, you don't think that he may be a partial operator or involved in a partnership arrangement of some sorts?

And in the second quote you say "he should have never had this level of permissions"...what makes you say that? Unless of course you do know for a fact that he is only an affiliate manager and not involved with their operations there?

The reason I digress to these two statements are because of a post he made back in July, where he did in fact show a screenshot of RTG's backend and then you removed it...you remember that from this thread here where I posted three quotes below?......

Ask the op of they will tell you what the slots are set at. Progressives they cannot control. but many of them they can.

One other thing to look out for, and note. Many times they set the $$ amount wagered and the slot machine...

example: Slot machine A, play $0.25, payout is set to 97%
Slot machine A, play $5.00, payout is set to 91%

Or whatever, some casinos will not disclose, other change to often, just my 2 cents.

This help? Partial screen shot? This is no secret, all casino do this, land and internet based.

Before posting screenshots of RTG's backend (or any software provider for that matter), please request their permission before doing so. Thanks!

Is there an official spokeperson from RTG that you were in touch with here?

I'm not questioning your truthfulness at all but it would give credence to the claim and fact as stated if we all knew exactly who this is from at RTG and their official role there you know.

I'd also still like to hear your answer to my two questions above too that I asked earlier but you never bothered to acknowledge, unless of course this is some sort of state secret or something. I really don't see the relevance here to not being transparent regarding those two questions and I would sincerely appreciate an answer to them even if the answer is a statement from you saying simply that you don't want to answer those.

I absolutely mean you no disrespect here Bryan nor am I trying to bust your balls here in asking you these questions the way I have, but you of all people know how we have been talking of "Industry Transparency" the past several years and how much it is needed and we even have another thread here now regarding industry transparency with regards to RTP Percentages. So in that respect, shouldn't this so called "Transparency" start right here with us, in this forum?

I mean if we cannot be totally open and transparent with one another here then how in the hell are we to convince operators to do the same when we cannot even do it with each other? I sincerely appreciate your time here Bryan in reading this and also your response to follow.
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[skywalker]

SOMETHING WRONG AT PLAYFAIR CASINO

I have deposited at Playfair, Casino33 many, many times, and never won a cashout, and I never got anywhere with the spins, and it was impossible to trigger the bonus feature, and when it did occur the payouts were anywhere from pennies to nothing. so I decided to cash in my comps which gave me $20 to play with and get this the spins paid out and I even hit a random jackpot for $4000+ only to be told I could only cashout $200 because that was all that was allowed on the amount of comps I redeeemed. I definetly think something is wrong there.

 

[RobWin]

I have deposited at Playfair, Casino33 many, many times, and never won a cashout, and I never got anywhere with the spins, and it was impossible to trigger the bonus feature, and when it did occur the payouts were anywhere from pennies to nothing. so I decided to cash in my comps which gave me $20 to play with and get this the spins paid out and I even hit a random jackpot for $4000+ only to be told I could only cashout $200 because that was all that was allowed on the amount of comps I redeeemed. I definetly think something is wrong there.

That sounds just like my most recent experiences at 3Dice!

Actually on second thought, that sounds like my entire past years experiences at 3Dice..
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[Nifty29]

I have deposited at Playfair, Casino33 many, many times, and never won a cashout, and I never got anywhere with the spins, and it was impossible to trigger the bonus feature, and when it did occur the payouts were anywhere from pennies to nothing. so I decided to cash in my comps which gave me $20 to play with and get this the spins paid out and I even hit a random jackpot for $4000+ only to be told I could only cashout $200 because that was all that was allowed on the amount of comps I redeeemed. I definetly think something is wrong there.

IMO this is disgusting. There should never be a max cashout on comps - they are based on your play and convert to real cash at just about every casino Ive played online. No deposit bonuses an contest wins etc - fair enough - but comps - NO WAY.

 

[bryand]

I have deposited at Playfair, Casino33 many, many times, and never won a cashout, and I never got anywhere with the spins, and it was impossible to trigger the bonus feature, and when it did occur the payouts were anywhere from pennies to nothing. so I decided to cash in my comps which gave me $20 to play with and get this the spins paid out and I even hit a random jackpot for $4000+ only to be told I could only cashout $200 because that was all that was allowed on the amount of comps I redeeemed. I definetly think something is wrong there.

I would send this one to maxd even if the $200 max cashout appears in the T&C. I would never play somewhere with this rule. Pitch a Bitch!!!

 

[TOC]

Well hell, I guess I'm still not finished with this thread here...not just yet anyway. I still think we need some more clear answers to a few things and some statements that were made here...

Bryan, in the first quote above you state that Casinojack is only an affiliate manager and not an operator...do you know this for a fact, you don't think that he may be a partial operator or involved in a partnership arrangement of some sorts?

And in the second quote you say "he should have never had this level of permissions"...what makes you say that? Unless of course you do know for a fact that he is only an affiliate manager and not involved with their operations there?

The reason I digress to these two statements are because of a post he made back in July, where he did in fact show a screenshot of RTG's backend and then you removed it...you remember that from this thread here where I posted three quotes below?......










I'd also still like to hear your answer to my two questions above too that I asked earlier but you never bothered to acknowledge, unless of course this is some sort of state secret or something. I really don't see the relevance here to not being transparent regarding those two questions and I would sincerely appreciate an answer to them even if the answer is a statement from you saying simply that you don't want to answer those.

I absolutely mean you no disrespect here Bryan nor am I trying to bust your balls here in asking you these questions the way I have, but you of all people know how we have been talking of "Industry Transparency" the past several years and how much it is needed and we even have another thread here now regarding industry transparency with regards to RTP Percentages. So in that respect, shouldn't this so called "Transparency" start right here with us, in this forum?

I mean if we cannot be totally open and transparent with one another here then how in the hell are we to convince operators to do the same when we cannot even do it with each other? I sincerely appreciate your time here Bryan in reading this and also your response to follow.
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RobWin research this guy and see for yourself. Start with Google and keyword CasinoJack. Also he's MIA inside this thread and that should tell you something and support CM's reply!

 

[KasinoKing]

5% wouldnt be enough to cover all the 'expenses' they have....( ithink that's what Bryand meant)

What 5%?
If a player keeps playing a 95% RTP slot, long term the casino gets 100% of his money, not 5%.

So I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you or Bryand are getting at - you'll have to spell out more clearly exactly what you mean for me.

Thanks.

 

[bryand]

5% wouldnt be enough to cover all the 'expenses' they have....( ithink that's what Bryand meant)

Comp points, cash back (insurance), free chips, holiday bonuses, software licensing fees, overhead.....

 

[skiny]

I have deposited at Playfair, Casino33 many, many times, and never won a cashout, and I never got anywhere with the spins, and it was impossible to trigger the bonus feature, and when it did occur the payouts were anywhere from pennies to nothing. so I decided to cash in my comps which gave me $20 to play with and get this the spins paid out and I even hit a random jackpot for $4000+ only to be told I could only cashout $200 because that was all that was allowed on the amount of comps I redeeemed. I definetly think something is wrong there.

Bonuses, comp points, free chips, none of these should effect the outcome of hitting a random Jackpot. Some people might hit one of these once in their lifetime and it's just unfair for the casino to tell the players they don't qualify. I've asked at a few casinos way back when I used to take bonuses if the max cashout would screw me if I hit a random jackpot and they all said no. Since my memory is only about 3 and a half days long I have no idea which casinos these were but maybe we should be asking very specific questions about something as important as qualification for random jackpots before we start gambling with any kind of bonus money.

 

[nisosbar]

I have deposited at Playfair, Casino33 many, many times, and never won a cashout, and I never got anywhere with the spins, and it was impossible to trigger the bonus feature, and when it did occur the payouts were anywhere from pennies to nothing. so I decided to cash in my comps which gave me $20 to play with and get this the spins paid out and I even hit a random jackpot for $4000+ only to be told I could only cashout $200 because that was all that was allowed on the amount of comps I redeeemed. I definetly think something is wrong there.

Totally PAB-worthy, IMHO, and rogueish.

And while comp points ARE technically free money gifted by the casino, it seems very unfair to restrict winnings with a max cashout clause.

 

[nisosbar]

Things that can't be done - changes cannot be made during sessions. The player has to log out and back in again before any changes can take place.

This then tends to lend credence to the anecdote someone else here shared about winning and then immediately thereafter getting kicked off the RTG software, and having to re-login, leading to a very bad session - obviously, the better casinos won't do this, but I'm curious if your source can confirm or deny whether there is a method - official or unofficial - by which, for example, a rogue RTG casino could - IN THEORY - kick a player out of a session unilaterally?

 

[Westland Bowl]

FWIW, I just opened an account at All Star Slots, a Baptism By Fire casino. I deposited $50 in this RTG casino and got a 100% bonus. I played strictly Treasure Chamber. The play through requirement was $2,000. So starting with $100, I'm now down to .43 cents after wagering $349.20. That's 582 spins at .60 cents a spin. So losing $99.57 on wagering $349.20, that's a rate of return of only 71.5%, nowhere near the 95%. But if I had a bigger deposit, I guess I would have had a free-spin round coming up shortly I suppose to "catch up" with the posted/advertised pay out rate. But just how big of a deposit for .60 cent a spin slots should I have in order to ride out the negative variance?

 

[skiny]

FWIW, I just opened an account at All Star Slots, a Baptism By Fire casino. I deposited $50 in this RTG casino and got a 100% bonus. I played strictly Treasure Chamber. The play through requirement was $2,000. So starting with $100, I'm now down to .43 cents after wagering $349.20. That's 582 spins at .60 cents a spin. So losing $99.57 on wagering $349.20, that's a rate of return of only 71.5%, nowhere near the 95%. But if I had a bigger deposit, I guess I would have had a free-spin round coming up shortly I suppose to "catch up" with the posted/advertised pay out rate. But just how big of a deposit for .60 cent a spin slots should I have in order to ride out the negative variance?

My first two deposits at All Star Slots did well. My next 24 kind of sucked. The only good thing is most of those deposits were just the casino getting it's money back and not coming out of my pocket.

At any rate I'm surprised you had a 71% playing Treasure Chamber at any RTG casino. I think I've had two free spin bonuses on that game in my entire life.

 

[eu_lowroller]

That's 582 spins at .60 cents a spin.

You played 60 cent bets on only a $100 starting balance?

I would never play higher than 20 cent bets in this casino with a $100 balance, because they're the most time so tight and even with a $100 start balance and only 20 cent bets the money can go so fast away with nearly not any win, but that's general on the most RTG casinos.

 

[BMWSTACK]

Allstar

My first deposit with ALLSTAR went well ,but at the very end ,right when i was going to meat playthrough it went on a cold streak almost like it knew.

 

[silcnlayc]

eu_lowroller:You played 60 cent bets on only a $100 starting balance?

I would never play higher than 20 cent bets in this casino with a $100 balance, because they're the most time so tight and even with a $100 start balance and only 20 cent bets the money can go so fast away with nearly not any win, but that's general on the most RTG casinos.

I do not understand why you are surprised anyone would play 60 cents a bet with a $100...a $100 used to be my starting balance for MANY years and I always played $2 a spin and had a GREAT time...now, a $100 is like playing with $10...and if you need to spin 20 cents..what is the point? I am there to WIN, play and have fun..not DONATE every deposit..

I am surprised that anyone would think it is strange to play 60 cents on a starting balance such as that.. I have always wondered why people went that low recently (last few years) and I now know why...don't you??

...

 

[Casinomeister]

...Bryan, in the first quote above you state that Casinojack is only an affiliate manager and not an operator...do you know this for a fact, you don't think that he may be a partial operator or involved in a partnership arrangement of some sorts?

Yes, he is an affiliate manager. Sorry, I thought this was pretty obvious.

...And in the second quote you say "he should have never had this level of permissions"...what makes you say that? Unless of course you do know for a fact that he is only an affiliate manager and not involved with their operations there?...

Affiliate managers, support, marketing people etc., should not have access to the numero uno's backend account. It seems that in this casino situation, he was allowed access. So no, he should not have had this sort of access since this has the capability to be abused.

The reason I digress to these two statements are because of a post he made back in July, where he did in fact show a screenshot of RTG's backend and then you removed it...

I removed the screenshot as requested by RTG. The backend is understandably privileged information and could be considered intellectual property of the software company. Casinojack did not have RTG's permission to post the screenshots, so they were removed as per the forum rules.

...I'd also still like to hear your answer to my two questions above too that I asked earlier but you never bothered to acknowledge, unless of course this is some sort of state secret or something. I really don't see the relevance here to not being transparent regarding those two questions and I would sincerely appreciate an answer to them even if the answer is a statement from you saying simply that you don't want to answer those.

I absolutely mean you no disrespect here Bryan nor am I trying to bust your balls here in asking you these questions the way I have, but you of all people know how we have been talking of "Industry Transparency" the past several years and how much it is needed and we even have another thread here now regarding industry transparency with regards to RTP Percentages. So in that respect, shouldn't this so called "Transparency" start right here with us, in this forum?

I mean if we cannot be totally open and transparent with one another here then how in the hell are we to convince operators to do the same when we cannot even do it with each other? I sincerely appreciate your time here Bryan in reading this and also your response to follow.
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It's not that I don't bother to answer questions, I just don't get around to them as quickly as some wish.

I don't feel that it is appropriate for me to post the names of the people I am in contact with from any software company, casino, licensing jurisdiction etc., unless I have explicit permission from these people, or if I feel that it is crucial for me to announce who said what.

There are press releases, and then there are statements made from individuals at the executive level. These are both sources of legitimate company policy etc., and I never have thought that it is necessary for me to indulge everyone on who my sources are since I have always been discrete when dealing with these people. Of course, quite a number of times I've been told to quote them specifically, but I don't ask to do this if I feel it's not important who specifically who said what.

I respect their positions and exchange as much information that they are willing to share. The members of the forum and the visitors of this website have the choice to take it or leave it. It's as simple as that.

 

[Mavin1]

Yes, he is an affiliate manager. Sorry, I thought this was pretty obvious.


Affiliate managers, support, marketing people etc., should not have access to the numero uno's backend account. It seems that in this casino situation, he was allowed access. So no, he should not have had this sort of access since this has the capability to be abused.


I removed the screenshot as requested by RTG. The backend is understandably privileged information and could be considered intellectual property of the software company. Casinojack did not have RTG's permission to post the screenshots, so they were removed as per the forum rules.


It's not that I don't bother to answer questions, I just don't get around to them as quickly as some wish.

I don't feel that it is appropriate for me to post the names of the people I am in contact with from any software company, casino, licensing jurisdiction etc., unless I have explicit permission from these people, or if I feel that it is crucial for me to announce who said what.

There are press releases, and then there are statements made from individuals at the executive level. These are both sources of legitimate company policy etc., and I never have thought that it is necessary for me to indulge everyone on who my sources are since I have always been discrete when dealing with these people. Of course, quite a number of times I've been told to quote them specifically, but I don't ask to do this if I feel it's not important who specifically who said what.

I respect their positions and exchange as much information that they are willing to share. The members of the forum and the visitors of this website have the choice to take it or leave it. It's as simple as that.

Therefore, Casino Jacks slip of the tongue leaves many of us wondering just how many are doing this but are smart enough not to blab it openly to the playing community.

 

[Casinomeister]

Therefore, Casino Jacks slip of the tongue leaves many of us wondering just how many are doing this but are smart enough not to blab it openly to the playing community.

That's the thing. You just don't know. Now it's pretty clear that the RTP can be changed under certain circumstances - and this will probably apply to most vendors - how and why will always be an issue.

If some of these vendors choose to be more transparent with their RTP, I think it'll improve the playing field greatly. Wager Works for instance (and any casino licensed in Alderney) must list the RTP for each game. I'd like to see more casinos do this voluntarily.

 

[deucebag]

If some of these vendors choose to be more transparent with their RTP, I think it'll improve the playing field greatly. Wager Works for instance (and any casino licensed in Alderney) must list the RTP for each game. I'd like to see more casinos do this voluntarily.

Are you sure it has to be per game? Circus Casino is licensed in Aldernay but I can only find a payout report for actual payout (not theoretical), lumping all slot games together.