RTG's Caribbean 21 lie

[Pirateofc21]

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Editor's Note: This one is a classic and is fodder for a cliff-hanging indie-film. Here we have the "Pirate" who won over a million dollars playing RTG's Caribbean 21. The casino operator tricked the player into admitting that he used software to beat the game, but under scruinty, the operator was lying. After the operator posted on how the software detects mouse movements on players' computers, RTG stepped in and called his bluff.

The operator was removed and his properties sold to another casino group.

MSNBC covered this one, and the player was paid an undisclosed amount by RTG which settled the case.
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It is with great regret that I write today. I am the player who won over a million playing RTG's Caribbean 21. I have now been told I used a robot player or non approved software. So every body be fore warned that RTG will accuse you of cheating, lock you out of your accounts, and ultimately void your winnings if you win big. I have remained quiet while all of this has been going on and I have gotten screwed for it. DO NOT GO TO THE HAMPTON OR ANY ORHER RTG CASINO AS THEY WILL NOT PAY IF YOU WIN BIG AND THEY WILL SIMPLY SAY YOU USED A ROBOT PLAYER TO GET OUT OF IT.

I DID NOT USE ANY NON APPROVED SOFTWARE. I played only thru their user interface.

SO AGAIN I TELL ALL THAT I WON OVER 1.3 MILLION FAIR AND SQUARE AND THEY HAVE CHEATED ME OUT OF IT. sO PLAY AT AN RTG CASINO AND YOU WILL BE RIPPED OFF IF YOU WIN BIG. YOU WILL ALSO HAVE ANY OTHER RTG ACCOUNTS LOCKED UP.

RTG is currently blocking accounts of mine that have balances in them so THEY WILL ALSO STEAL FROM YOU IN KEEPING OTHER MONIES YOU MAY HAVE AT OTHER RTG CASINOS AS THEY HAVE DONE WITH ME.

sO NOT ONLY DID THEY STEAL MY WINNINGS THEY ALSO TOOK MONEY FROM OTHER ACCOUNTS.

 

[Pirateofc21]

I also forgot to mention that I have a large amount of winnings at another RTG casino. I am expecting that they will void that to.

SO ONCE AGAIN RTG AND IT'S CASINOS WILL NOT PAY YOU IF YOU WIN BIG. THEY WILL LOCK YOU OUT OF YOU ACCOUNTS AND WHATEVER BALANCES YOU MIGHT HAVE IN THEM.

SO IF YOU WANT TO BE CHEATED PLAY AT AN RTG CASINO LIKE HAMPTON. THEY WILL PAY THE NICKEL AND THEN STEAL THE DOLLAR.

 

[mary]

Pirate, my darling:

You do know that Realtime Gaming is located in Atlanta, Georgia, USA. Second, you do know that they supply the same software to the publically traded AngelCiti Entertainment Inc., which reports to the US SEC?

Could be a really interesting court case, oh, yes. PM me.

Mary

I also forgot to mention that I have a large amount of winnings at another RTG casino. I am expecting that they will void that to.

SO ONCE AGAIN RTG AND IT'S CASINOS WILL NOT PAY YOU IF YOU WIN BIG. THEY WILL LOCK YOU OUT OF YOU ACCOUNTS AND WHATEVER BALANCES YOU MIGHT HAVE IN THEM.

SO IF YOU WANT TO BE CHEATED PLAY AT AN RTG CASINO LIKE HAMPTON. THEY WILL PAY THE NICKEL AND THEN STEAL THE DOLLAR.

 

[caruso]

A robot player is something that clicks away while you do something else, like the Microgaming "autoplay" function. It can't tamper with any aspect of the actual card-dealing. So what does this have to do with anything?

Given that Pirate was apparently betting $10,000 a hand, 1.3 mill represents a grand total of 130 winning bets. LOL, I've had a lot better results than that on occasions with RTG. This is no big deal whatsoever in terms of units won. There is no case here. The casino approved a betting level that they could not POSSIBLY sustain, hoping he'd lose. He didn't. Tough titty.

 

[hhcfreebie]

Pirateofc21, have you pitched a bitch with casino meister?
As for the odds of winning so much, I find it very difficult to believe. From the other thread you mentioned that you only deposited 1k and turned it to 1.3 million. Even if they don't have any table limit at all and their game has no house edge, the odds of winning so much is less than 1 in 1300. Their table limit started with only a few hundreds, you were able to turn your bank roll into 10k+ then keep winning until you have 1.3 million. The odds would be slim to none.
I think you should ask them for playlog and use it as an evidence. Without it, it might be very difficult to convice portal owners that you won it fair and square.

 

[xianna]

Why am I not surprised?

I'm so sorry this happened to you, Pirate. I hope you get your money.

But if they can't pay people like me who only won around $5000, how in the world are they going to pay you?

 

[amandajm]

No one is safe playing this software IMO.

Sorry for your troubles pirateofc21 but 1.2 million dollars is enough to take this all the way to the gambling press and then on to the broadsheets. That said if you are pulling a 1.2 million dollar gambling scam thats gonna get just as much coverage, probaly more.

Over at Gambling911 Sting reckons the 138k win at Intertops that the firm called thier 100k max payout on was apparently the talk of the floors at Ice among the executives.

 

[Pirateofc21]

rtg thieves

Yes I have pitched a bitch. Bryan hasn't answered me. He isn't interested in the truth. He met with them and he is taking their side. I don't klnow what to say I thought Bryan would be helpful but he doesn't even return my e-mails. Also RTG has locked several of my accounts that have balances. To me this is outright stealing. I will send another bitch but it looks like Bryan is in it with them as he won't even answer me now.
He has it listed that he is a player advocate but he won't help. Like I said he just believes them. I am shocked that he would simply accept this but it looks like they are all the same.

Bryan why won't you answer me now? Did they pay you? They are getting away with outright stealing. How can you stand by and let this happen.
What about my balance at Delano's . Do they get to steal that to!!

Talk to me Bryan.

 

[Pirateofc21]

not likely

hhcfreebie, as unlikely as it seems ask youself why would they pull the game out of service? Also I started with table limits of 10 and 1000, not a few hundred. They pulled the game because I won. Why haven't the locks on my other RTG accounts been released.

Bryan, how can you be so easily swayed?
I DIDN'T USE ANY SOFTWARE OR DEVICE OR SYSTEM. i SIMPLY PLAYED AND WON.

AS I SAID EARLIER THEY HAVE LOCKS ON MY ACOUNTS WITH BALANCES IN THEM. I CANNOT WITHDRAW MY MONEY. THESE ACCOUNTS HAVE NOTHING TO DO ANYTHING. wHY ARE THEY ENTITLED TO THAT MONEY TO. C'mon Bryan they can't get away with this. You've got to help.
If RTG is not held accountable for this and allowed to keep my money this opens the door for any one to cheat players. All you have to do is say OH a robot player was used so we don't have to pay.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Finally I have asked several times for my game logs but they won't release them. The manager at Hampton offered to sell them to me if I was willing to pay.

This is crazy. I did not use a robot player. C'mon Bryan help me fight this. This is only going hurt the industry as other vendors and such will see that if they simply come up with an excuse they won't have to pay.
Where is the accountability! Bryan help me fight for the truth.

 

[amandajm]

Pirate..

I see no RTG banners on this site. Neither have i seen Bryan say he won't help.

Why go into one like that? Are you saying Bryan has contacted you and said you have no case or something? Do tell.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Pirate..

I see no RTG banners on this site. Neither have i seen Bryan say he won't help.

Why go into one like that? Are you saying Bryan has contacted you and said you have no case or something? Do tell.

Yes, He says I should have checked the rules before using one. But I didn't use one. This is so lame. Bryan isn't interested in the truth. Whatever they showed him at RTG was enough for him. I have sent him my personal tel. # and asked him to call collect. No call as of yet. Don't you find it strange that the game hasn't returned?

 

[jyde]

Easy now. Casinomeister was in London for the ICE show. Don't know if he is back yet.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Easy now. Casinomeister was in London for the ICE show. Don't know if he is back yet.

His response to me is below

Hi Brian,

As you know, I've been in London all week, thus the non-responsiveness.

As for the amount that was owed to you, I believe this is voided since it states in their terms and conditions:

5. All wagers must be placed through the user interface provided by Hampton Casino on our Web pages. Any Internet wagering through other means, including the use of a "robot" player, is strictly forbidden. In the event that use of non-approved client software is detected, Management reserves the right to invalidate all such wagers retroactively, cancel the player's account, or take any other appropriate action.

Since you were using a robot (or "non-approved client software"), your accounts have been cancelled and winnings forfeited. This is very unfortunate, but you should have checked around and used this sort of software on casinos that don't have an issue about this.

Sincerely,

Bryan


I WAS NOT USING A ROBOT PLAYER NOR SOFTWARE OF ANY KIND.
tHIS IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE!

 

[Pirateofc21]

I think his response states his position very clearly. This sends the message of do what you want to the vendor and casino operators all over. You don't have to pay just say a robot was used.
This is the very thing he says he is against. But Ii don't see that from his response.

 

[caruso]

Pirate, this is bullsh*t. For one thing, a casino should REJOICE in a player auto-playing a negative expectation game at this level. Microgaming does. Even if you WERE "auto-playing" this is no reason to void anything. All this is is an attempt to get out of paying. Player wins; casino invokes "robot" bullsh*t; casino voids winnings.

Unfortunately, your case is a bit bigger than most. Listen to Mary. RTG is located in the US and bound by US laws. Offer 10% of your winnings upon collection to the best lawyer out there. Heck, make it 25%. That's a $350,000 payday. You'll have the biggest, ball-bustingest lawyers in the country breaking your door down to offer their services.

Don't even DREAM of quitting after just hitting the first obstacle.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Pirate, this is bullsh*t. For one thing, a casino should REJOICE in a player auto-playing a negative expectation game at this level. Microgaming does. Even if you WERE "auto-playing" this is no reason to void anything. All this is is an attempt to get out of paying. Player wins; casino invokes "robot" bullsh*t; casino voids winnings.

Unfortunately, your case is a bit bigger than most. Listen to Mary. RTG is located in the US and bound by US laws. Offer 10% of your winnings upon collection to the best lawyer out there. Heck, make it 25%. That's a $350,000 payday. You'll have the biggest, ball-bustingest lawyers in the country breaking your door down to offer their services.

Don't even DREAM of quitting after just hitting the first obstacle.

Oh, I quite agree, but the simple truth is that I didn't use any software. I just played the game. I have consulted my lawyer and he is looking into this though I can't be more specific. The bottom line is I shouldn't even have to talk to a lawyer. They started paying me then stopped when someone came up with this robot player nonsense.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Oh, I quite agree, but the simple truth is that I didn't use any software. I just played the game. I have consulted my lawyer and he is looking into this though I can't be more specific. The bottom line is I shouldn't even have to talk to a lawyer. They started paying me then stopped when someone came up with this robot player nonsense.

I don't intend to just walk away but what else can I do? I can maybe contact RTG in Atlanta, but I doubt I would even get someone on the phone. This can't be left this way. There has to be accountability on the part of the vendor.

I want to know what the hell they showed Bryan that he is agreeing with them. There is no way to honestly prove I used a robot player because I didn't. That is why I say the truth isn't important here. It is more important to realize that this is FRAUD on the biggest level. I am being cheated out of over a million dollars. Do you really think I didn't read their terms and conditions? Of course I did. Why would I jepordize my winnings over something so stupid. I can make my own decisions.

 

[amandajm]

Okay Pirate - i see now. Bryan has in your eyes ruled against you. I must admit it does look like that and await what Bryan has to say on this.

1.2 million dollars is A LOT of money in anyones book and deserves all sides of the story be told. Robots though is nonsense imo, as caruso alludes to..

My thoughts on robots? https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/robots.853/

 

[GrandMaster]

The casino could legitimately complain if a player took a bonus and used the robot to play through the WR, but this is clearly not the case here. I have never heard of a Microgaming casino forbidding autoplay with bonuses, although I remember reading that their hold on BJ has been reduced, due to people playing better strategy.

There is another possibility, if the random number generator is not random enough and the robot can place the bet at the right 1/1000 second to increase the player's chance of winning. The problem here is, of course, not the robot but the weak RNG.

I would certainly like to know what evidence the casino has for claiming that the Pirateofc21 used a robot, and how it is supposed to have affected the outcome.

 

[The Dude]

Yes I have pitched a bitch. Bryan hasn't answered me. He isn't interested in the truth. He met with them and he is taking their side. I don't klnow what to say I thought Bryan would be helpful but he doesn't even return my e-mails. Also RTG has locked several of my accounts that have balances. To me this is outright stealing. I will send another bitch but it looks like Bryan is in it with them as he won't even answer me now.
He has it listed that he is a player advocate but he won't help. Like I said he just believes them. I am shocked that he would simply accept this but it looks like they are all the same.

Bryan why won't you answer me now? Did they pay you? They are getting away with outright stealing. How can you stand by and let this happen.
What about my balance at Delano's . Do they get to steal that to!!

Talk to me Bryan.

To Pirateofc21,

#1 - This is my job, not some hobby, so I normally don't work weekends. As you were well aware, I was in London meeting with RTG on numerous occassions. And I was answering your emails, but not all of them since it wasn't necessary to reply to each one.

#2 - I do not negotiate with fraudsters.

#3 - If I do not receive a public apology within the next 6 hours, consider yourself banned for life from this forum.

To everyone else:

Pirateofc21 has spoken with the casino operator and admitted to the casino that he used robot software. I have no idea why he is stating publicly that this is a lie when he has stated otherwise in private. Using robot software breaches the terms and conditions of the casino. Lest we forget, this player has made A LOT of money from other casinos which either didn't detect his robot, or allow robot play.

The bottom line is the casino forbids robot play, and this is made perfectly clear in the terms and conditions. If you're stupid enough to break the terms and conditions and get caught, that's your problem. Not mine.

And I will be god-damned if players lie to me, and then attempt to damage my reputation in my forum.

The clock is ticking Pirateofc21, fess up here or forever hold your peace.

 

[amandajm]

Thats about 3 hours I think.

Pirate - my thoughts on the ridiculousness of barring robots on games with a negative expectation to the player do not circumvent the rules of each and every casino.

Now from what i can tell it is the casino managers word against the players - is that right Bryan?

Have they a recording of the call?

 

[caruso]

OK, I've clearly misunderstood the definition of "robot": I understood it to mean an auto-click device, whereby a machine / computer plays in place of an actual clicking finger. Presumably it's progammable to play any strategy, ie. if I like splitting 5s and doubling on 4s, I can have it do that. It's function is to relieve the player of physically playing the game.

What device does the casino claim the player admitted to using in his attempt to defraud them? What evidence is there to suggest this is the case? What is the function of the device? How does it affect the outcome of the game and turn a 99.82% return into 100%+ return?

 

[caps]

I'm not sure the suggestion here is fraud (though it might be), so much as it is that this guy has apparently admitted to having engaged in conduct that is in direct violation of the casino's clearly-expressed rules. If that's so, then the extent to which the robot reduced the house advantage isn't the key -- it's the fact that he did a thing prohibited by the rules. If the guy really did use the robot, then the "fraud" here wasn't directed so much at the casino as it was to this forum.

 

[caruso]

I initially took that this was some kind of gigantic early April Fool joke. Winning 1.4 mill at a shady RTG is bizarre and nuts beyond belief. Heck, you bust a gut to collect 5K; 1.4 MILLION??? Get real.

A lot now persuades me that he's legit, mainly the bet size he ended up employing. 1.4 mill is tough flat betting $100; betting $10,000 and it becomes a relatively easy task. 140 winning bets - Carribean21 - high variance - total walk in the park.

What we have here is a total nutcase (no offence, Pirate) who pressed his luck beyond sanity at the wrong casino, got a bit lucky and is getting shafted. In other words: business as usual at RTG.

Pirate - this is Bryan's forum. Don't badmouth him. Apologize for letting your temper get the better of you, promise not to do it again and you might even find an ally.

If possible those game logs need to be got hold of. I really don't think for one second that the casino will willingly release them because they will most likely exonerate the player of any wrong-doing. Thus, their refusal will lend a lot of weight to the player's case. If they have nothing to hide, release them and let a recognized authority examine them.

I would say that's the first step.