RTG's Caribbean 21 lie

Status
Not open for further replies.

Pirateofc21

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Location
On the Sea.
Thank God

caruso said:
This "robot" stuff is a nonsense. As Bryan himself stated previously, RTG pulled the game, concluded it was OK and acknowledged that this fellow is one lucky sonofabitch. There was no evidence that the game was performing off-kilter. And how WOULD it? How do you affect the outcome of a game dealt off a remote server? The implication that the player somehow cheated the software with this device is entirely unsubstantiatable.

Yes, he did "cheat"; he "cheated" the laws of probability, LOL. That's what the casino is in a panic about.

Sh*t happens and players actually win on occasions. Casinos hate winners. Casinos loathe, abhor and detest from the bottom of their guts winners who win so much it actually hurts them. Didn't Kerry Packer put a dent in Mirage's quarterly results one time he won twenty consecutive 100K bacc bets?

But they paid him his legit win - and RTG should damn well pay this man his.



Thank you finally someone who has a grasp on what happened. I was baiting him the same way he was baiting me. I am posting one part of my recorded conversation with this manager at Faircasinos.com and I will try the same here.
 

Pirateofc21

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Location
On the Sea.
caps said:
What if he was actually using a robot, though, and the rules explicitly bar this? Whether the rule itself makes any particular sense, what if he broke it?
I didn't admit to anything. listen to the tape. Then tell me what you think.
 

xianna

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Pirateofc21 said:
I didn't admit to anything. listen to the tape. Then tell me what you think.


Pirate, can you give a link to the page where the recording can be found?

I went to Faircasinos and found the Caribbean21 thread, but I didn't see where to download the tape.
 

Pirateofc21

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Location
On the Sea.
xianna said:
Pirate, can you give a link to the page where the recording can be found?

I went to Faircasinos and found the Caribbean21 thread, but I didn't see where to download the tape.
I just sent it to the admin. He probably hasn't had a chance to post it yet. I am sending a second to him.
 

sirius

Registered
Joined
Apr 15, 2000
Location
UK
It's up now on the thread here:
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
 
Last edited:

thesmacker

Most Annoying Forum Member of 2006
Joined
Jun 22, 2003
Casinomeister, on what grounds did you come to the conclusion that P of the C was in the wrong here? Do you know something that we don't, and if so will you let us in because from those phone calls I just listened to it seemed that the person from RTG was trying to strong arm this player. Please enlighten us as to why you are so sure the pirates did something wrong. Because I don't know if I'd take the word of the person he was talking to on the phone, he sounded pretty defensive and that he was trying to coerce Pirates into saying something that he knew nothing about. Not to mention with RTG casinos track record I wouldn't ever take there word on anything. If you could clear this up please post and let us know.
 

xianna

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Wow. Amazing.

Do you think he knew you were recording the conversations, Pirate?

:(
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Hi All,

First of all, I'm not going to post the phone conversations that p21 sent until I receive permission from the casino to do so. There is a privacy issue here that is covered in this forum's terms and conditions.

I feel this is a also good time to sit back and let the smoke clear and try to put things into perspective. You will lose site of what you are shooting at if you are endlessly sending bullets down range; the smoke will obscure your target.

Perhaps the player could post how much he has won versus how much he has deposited over the past year here in this thread. Doing so, most of us will agree that he has the money to hire a decent lawyer that should be willing to tackle this in a US court. I honestly believe that the player has legal recourses (civil court or "out of court" settlements). This is the proper place to hash this out, especially with the funds involved.

Here is a question most of you should be asking yourselves: Why hasn't he done this yet? If it were me, the day that RTG pulled the game down, I would have retained a lawyer...and I also would have kept my mouth shut. This player obviously did not do this. Now don't get me wrong, this is not an admission of guilt. It merely gives a notion that something is not right.

Another question you should be asking yourselves: Why has the player been so vocal in these message boards, but has yet to pick up a phone and give the software provider RTG a call. Their main office is in Atlanta, and I've forwarded their phone number to the player so he or his lawyer can talk to them first hand.

Considering the amount of $$$ involved, this is the first thing I would have done.

Sometimes it's best to chill, and let things take their course. I think it's in the best interest for most parties involved to either negotiate directly via full time representatives, or take it to a place where they handle legal disputes.
 

caps

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
Well, that certainly puts the exchanges in a different light, though it seems only to be a portion of the conversation(s).
 

caruso

Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Location
England
You will lose site of what you are shooting at if you are endlessly sending bullets down range; the smoke will obscure your target.

No loss of sight, to be honest. I think the situation here is pretty clear cut. Facing gargantuan losses, casino invents excuse to not pay.

...he has the money to hire a decent lawyer that should be willing to tackle this in a US court. I honestly believe that the player has legal recourses (civil court or "out of court" settlements). This is the proper place to hash this out, especially with the funds involved. Here is a question most of you should be asking yourselves: Why hasn't he done this yet?

Because everything seemed hunky-dorey until a few days ago when the casino made this cack-handed attempt to screw him. And I guess he HAS retained a lawyer, as you suggest. He just hasn't called in his services yet, or he may be looking for a more specialized one, higher profile one, etc etc. It would pay to have the right legal resources in place in a case like this.

Another question you should be asking yourselves: Why has the player been so vocal in these message boards, but has yet to pick up a phone and give the software provider RTG a call...Considering the amount of $$$ involved, this is the first thing I would have done.

Because he's dealt to date exclusively with the casino manager. Additionally, since you were personally handling the case it wouldn't have necessarily been appropriate to delve too deeply into further channels while you yourself were doing this.

I disagree about it being best to "chill". This needs to be kept high-profile and current. There are HUGE implications for all players if the industry suddenly gets wind of the fact that it's acceptable to void winnings on the basis of "he cheated and you'll just have to take my word for it". MASSIVE implications.

Sirius, Pirate or anyone else - any chance that someone can make transcripts of those conversations and post them at Sirius's site? I can barely hear them. I'd request it directly over there, but apparently Sirius needs a fax form to sign up to his forum, LOL!!
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I think the situation here is pretty clear cut.
Negative. You are rowing with one oar in the water. You haven't a clue to what has been transpiring except for P21's postings, and this recorded phone conversation.

Yet I've been privy to both sides. Yes, I heard the phone conversation at Sirius' site, but even so, I am convinced that this player committed fraud. You have heard the situation from the player's perspective. I have heard it from all three parties. Presently, I am not at liberty to discus this much further, but within the next few days I should be able to share more information with you all.

For the time being, P21 can rant and rave as much as he wants; he's sinking his own ship by doing so.

Additionally, since you were personally handling the case it wouldn't have necessarily been appropriate to delve too deeply into further channels while you yourself were doing this.

He approached me to find out what was happening. I acted as a conduit of information between the software provider and player, NOT the casino. I was merely giving him timelines for when the player's account may be reopened or when RTG would finish accessing their software audit. I too thought everything was honky dory until the player made some cryptic postings here which the casino looked into. His postings suggest hacking into the site/software...and it went on from there.

The player admitted to the casino that he used a robot/software program/whatever you want to call it. What the hell? I guess the casino should go back and retroactively change their T&Cs to allow robot play, and just pay the guy.

Jeeze Caruso, a casino has the right to either allow robot play or not, this is their preogative. If a player chooses to use his software on a casino that forbids this then he is SOL when his winnings get confiscated. Lest we forget, this player has already been paid by a number of casinos already who either a) didn't catch him or b) don't care that you use robots/software/whatever.

The irony of it all, if this guy would have just kept his mouth shut, he would be getting $4000 a week. If anybody screwed anyone it was the player screwing himself.
 

Pirateofc21

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Location
On the Sea.
casinomeister said:
Hi All,

First of all, I'm not going to post the phone conversations that p21 sent until I receive permission from the casino to do so. There is a privacy issue here that is covered in this forum's terms and conditions.

I feel this is a also good time to sit back and let the smoke clear and try to put things into perspective. You will lose site of what you are shooting at if you are endlessly sending bullets down range; the smoke will obscure your target.

Perhaps the player could post how much he has won versus how much he has deposited over the past year here in this thread. Doing so, most of us will agree that he has the money to hire a decent lawyer that should be willing to tackle this in a US court. I honestly believe that the player has legal recourses (civil court or "out of court" settlements). This is the proper place to hash this out, especially with the funds involved.

Here is a question most of you should be asking yourselves: Why hasn't he done this yet? If it were me, the day that RTG pulled the game down, I would have retained a lawyer...and I also would have kept my mouth shut. This player obviously did not do this. Now don't get me wrong, this is not an admission of guilt. It merely gives a notion that something is not right.

Another question you should be asking yourselves: Why has the player been so vocal in these message boards, but has yet to pick up a phone and give the software provider RTG a call. Their main office is in Atlanta, and I've forwarded their phone number to the player so he or his lawyer can talk to them first hand.

Considering the amount of $$$ involved, this is the first thing I would have done.

Sometimes it's best to chill, and let things take their course. I think it's in the best interest for most parties involved to either negotiate directly via full time representatives, or take it to a place where they handle legal disputes.


You know Bryan you MUST BE KIDDING I didn't contact RTG because I didn't know where they were located. i ASKED YOU TWICE FOR CONTACT INFORMATION AND YOU NEVER RESPONDED WITH IT. hOW WAS i SUPPOSED TO CONTACT THEM?
 

Pirateofc21

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Location
On the Sea.
casinomeister said:
Hi All,

First of all, I'm not going to post the phone conversations that p21 sent until I receive permission from the casino to do so. There is a privacy issue here that is covered in this forum's terms and conditions.

I feel this is a also good time to sit back and let the smoke clear and try to put things into perspective. You will lose site of what you are shooting at if you are endlessly sending bullets down range; the smoke will obscure your target.

Perhaps the player could post how much he has won versus how much he has deposited over the past year here in this thread. Doing so, most of us will agree that he has the money to hire a decent lawyer that should be willing to tackle this in a US court. I honestly believe that the player has legal recourses (civil court or "out of court" settlements). This is the proper place to hash this out, especially with the funds involved.

Here is a question most of you should be asking yourselves: Why hasn't he done this yet? If it were me, the day that RTG pulled the game down, I would have retained a lawyer...and I also would have kept my mouth shut. This player obviously did not do this. Now don't get me wrong, this is not an admission of guilt. It merely gives a notion that something is not right.

Another question you should be asking yourselves: Why has the player been so vocal in these message boards, but has yet to pick up a phone and give the software provider RTG a call. Their main office is in Atlanta, and I've forwarded their phone number to the player so he or his lawyer can talk to them first hand.

Considering the amount of $$$ involved, this is the first thing I would have done.

Sometimes it's best to chill, and let things take their course. I think it's in the best interest for most parties involved to either negotiate directly via full time representatives, or take it to a place where they handle legal disputes.


also why do you keep avoiding the issue of my other RTG accounts? They have closed my account at Delanos. HOW IS THAT RIGHT What has that got to do with anything.?
 

Pirateofc21

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Location
On the Sea.
Pirateofc21 said:
also why do you keep avoiding the issue of my other RTG accounts? They have closed my account at Delanos. HOW IS THAT RIGHT What has that got to do with anything.?
Third I have requested that you call me collect at the # I gave you. I can better answer these question personally. I have a lawyer so that should CLEAR UP YOUR DOUBTS.
1. I didn't call RTG because I didn't have contact information I told you this. I guess you forgot. It was also suggested that I stay out of the way.

2. Why are my other balances forfiet. what does the 70,000 at Delano's have to do with anything.

3. I have an Attorney who is following along. Remember I was told to stay quiet and let you handle it. which is what I did and I got screwed for it. My lawyer would have been breaking down the door the next day but I decided to stay out of the way and let Others with more experience handle this.

I hope this answers the points you brought up. Perhaps you could make that collect call when I return. I must leave now to take my duaghter to school. I will be back in about 15 minutes.
 

Pirateofc21

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Location
On the Sea.
Pirateofc21 said:
Third I have requested that you call me collect at the # I gave you. I can better answer these question personally. I have a lawyer so that should CLEAR UP YOUR DOUBTS.
1. I didn't call RTG because I didn't have contact information I told you this. I guess you forgot. It was also suggested that I stay out of the way.

2. Why are my other balances forfiet. what does the 70,000 at Delano's have to do with anything.

3. I have an Attorney who is following along. Remember I was told to stay quiet and let you handle it. which is what I did and I got screwed for it. My lawyer would have been breaking down the door the next day but I decided to stay out of the way and let Others with more experience handle this.

I hope this answers the points you brought up. Perhaps you could make that collect call when I return. I must leave now to take my duaghter to school. I will be back in about 15 minutes.


I'm now back. Please call me collect at the # I gave you. The people in this forum seem to agree with me. What about the comment RTG made to you about the game being good and the player got lucky? What about my other accounts Bryan. Why has RTG closed those accounts? what about the money in those accounts.
 
Last edited:

eek

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2003
Its pretty obvious from the earlier C21 thread that the game could be a big winner if you got onto a streak, some players (plural) had figured that out.

Pirate wasn't an isolated winner, other posters here were doing well on the game too.

The trouble is this guy went to $10k a hand, and got a $1.3 million payday.

wow.

Now you have the difficult bit Pirate...getting your winnings.
 

thesmacker

Most Annoying Forum Member of 2006
Joined
Jun 22, 2003
One thing that really bothers me here is that within the recorded phone conversations the casino operator offers the player between 25000-75000 to tell the so-called truth. Now if the casino really did have undisputable evidence that the player was in the wrong why would they offer him any money???? Seems a little fishy doesn't it??
 

Pirateofc21

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Location
On the Sea.
casinomeister said:
Negative. You are rowing with one oar in the water. You haven't a clue to what has been transpiring except for P21's postings, and this recorded phone conversation.

Yet I've been privy to both sides. Yes, I heard the phone conversation at Sirius' site, but even so, I am convinced that this player committed fraud. You have heard the situation from the player's perspective. I have heard it from all three parties. Presently, I am not at liberty to discus this much further, but within the next few days I should be able to share more information with you all.

For the time being, P21 can rant and rave as much as he wants; he's sinking his own ship by doing so.



He approached me to find out what was happening. I acted as a conduit of information between the software provider and player, NOT the casino. I was merely giving him timelines for when the player's account may be reopened or when RTG would finish accessing their software audit. I too thought everything was honky dory until the player made some cryptic postings here which the casino looked into. His postings suggest hacking into the site/software...and it went on from there.

The player admitted to the casino that he used a robot/software program/whatever you want to call it. What the hell? I guess the casino should go back and retroactively change their T&Cs to allow robot play, and just pay the guy.

Jeeze Caruso, a casino has the right to either allow robot play or not, this is their preogative. If a player chooses to use his software on a casino that forbids this then he is SOL when his winnings get confiscated. Lest we forget, this player has already been paid by a number of casinos already who either a) didn't catch him or b) don't care that you use robots/software/whatever.

The irony of it all, if this guy would have just kept his mouth shut, he would be getting $4000 a week. If anybody screwed anyone it was the player screwing himself.

OK so I made some dumb mistakes. Why do you keep slamming me and calling me a fraud Bryan. I AM NOT A FRAUD AND THEY CANNOT PROVE ROBOT PLAY BECAUSE I DIDN't use one. It is not right for you to say I committed fraud. I didn't. Bryan please take me up on my offer to call me collect. I DID NOT USE A ROBOT OR SOFTWARE OF ANY KIND. Why are you so sure Bryan? You are wrong about me.

I DID NOT USE A ROBOT OR SOFTWARE OF ANY KIND. RTG CANNOT Proove this because I didn't use any. IF they could why haven't they come out with it .

You know what I tired of defending my self. What about my other balances Bryan. How is it legal for RTG to close those other accounts?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top