RTG's Caribbean 21 lie

[amandajm]

This whole frigging thing amazes me.

Hey hey hey, not likely as I've personally seen silliness displayed by both sides of the gambling fence for prolly no more than 50 quid, you ~B will have seen a lot more than I over the years.

For 1.3 million Bryan... Nothing will surprise me. Hell what is happening may be original but amaze me - not.

1.3 million is a lot for you to get involved with imo and you have set yourself up to get had a go at whichever way you rule on this. You just know you're gonna get accused by someone of being on the take if you rule for the casino on this one or the usual anti Meister blurb will surface if you rule against RTG/Hamptons.

You take your time and cover yourself please, this is a lot of money. A LOT of money and size matters..

I also want more than you posting evidence if and when it arrives and feel the casino owe you the due diligence of thier presence here at some stage, even if at the end. This should not be all on you to deal with.

Cheers.

 

[xianna]

You just know you're gonna get accused by someone of being on the take if you rule for the casino on this one or the usual anti Meister blurb will surface if you rule against RTG/Hamptons.

Very true, Amanda.

If I were Bryan, I wouldn't want to be involved in this one at all.

Pirate can afford and has seen a lawyer. For this much money, I think that's probably a better option for everyone.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Very true, Amanda.

If I were Bryan, I wouldn't want to be involved in this one at all.

Pirate can afford and has seen a lawyer. For this much money, I think that's probably a better option for everyone.

I don't agree. I do have a lawyer but I don't not think that is the best option. Here's why. Just as Bryan has pointed out endlessly sending bullets downrange creates smoke that will obscure the target and in that case pulling out a bigger gun would cause more smoke and further obscure the target. That would not be in my best interest. I am not out to make enemies, only to get paid.

 

[love2vegas]

Like others, I have no way to know the whole conversations or what has or has not been said. There are a couple of things which bother me, though. First and foremost, IF the casino has less than ironclad proof that something was amiss here, the implications are tremendous for all players of online casinos. Secondly, there does seem to be some things which don't add up from the info that pirate has provided:
A.) He seemed concerned that he had to pay for a copy of the logs. Now, I don't know how much they were asking, but any reasonable price would be worth investing, when as much money as this is involved.
B.) The phone conversation is obviously not all there. It starts and stops in some unusual places and just doesn't flow right.
Third, Pirate keeps asking why other accounts have been locked. If illegal play was used on one account, why wouldn't the casino suspect this to be the case in other accounts?
Fourth, the person that Pirate talked to did sound like a lawyer. The tactics of pressure, friendliness, an offer to settle & then to suggest some bad consequences sounds too much like a lawyer doing the doubletalk. Which brings me to the final point:
Fifth, If the casino has such solid proof- why even bother to offer a settlement for tens of thousands of dollars? Mysteries are fun!

 

[xianna]

Fifth, If the casino has such solid proof- why even bother to offer a settlement for tens of thousands of dollars? Mysteries are fun!

Yeah, they are!

I thought the settlement was being offered only if Pirate would agree to be more specific on just how he cheated, but I could be totally off.

I think RTG really believes he cheated. But I don't see where the proof is. They want the proof, and that's what they were willing to buy.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Like others, I have no way to know the whole conversations or what has or has not been said. There are a couple of things which bother me, though. First and foremost, IF the casino has less than ironclad proof that something was amiss here, the implications are tremendous for all players of online casinos. Secondly, there does seem to be some things which don't add up from the info that pirate has provided:
A.) He seemed concerned that he had to pay for a copy of the logs. Now, I don't know how much they were asking, but any reasonable price would be worth investing, when as much money as this is involved.
B.) The phone conversation is obviously not all there. It starts and stops in some unusual places and just doesn't flow right.
Third, Pirate keeps asking why other accounts have been locked. If illegal play was used on one account, why wouldn't the casino suspect this to be the case in other accounts?
Fourth, the person that Pirate talked to did sound like a lawyer. The tactics of pressure, friendliness, an offer to settle & then to suggest some bad consequences sounds too much like a lawyer doing the doubletalk. Which brings me to the final point:
Fifth, If the casino has such solid proof- why even bother to offer a settlement for tens of thousands of dollars? Mysteries are fun!

A. Why should I pay for what other casinos give away for free?

B. My machine has pre set recording limits so it's cutting in and out is a result of the machine doing it's job, not my selectively turning it on and off.

C. I don't know about you but I live in a Democracy. Where I come from we don't assume guilt first. Suspicion breeds fear and fear can distort ones perception of a situation.

D. ?

E. You can figure this one out.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Yeah, they are!

I thought the settlement was being offered only if Pirate would agree to be more specific on just how he cheated, but I could be totally off.

I think RTG really believes he cheated. But I don't see where the proof is. They want the proof, and that's what they were willing to buy.

A. Everybody does.

B. I didn't !

C. I welcome the opportunity to discuss my style or technique with them. Also it should be noted that there were several factors working in tandem here not the least of which was a $10,000 table max. Without that, ( Thank You Hampton ) none of this would have been possible.

 

[cipher]

A. Why should I pay for what other casinos give away for free?

B. My machine has pre set recording limits so it's cutting in and out is a result of the machine doing it's job, not my selectively turning it on and off.

C. I don't know about you but I live in a Democracy. Where I come from we don't assume guilt first. Suspicion breeds fear and fear can distort ones perception of a situation.

D. ?

E. You can figure this one out.

Pirate21, I went back and thoroughly re-read every post in this thread and I'm convinced that you are the only person that's not aware of the fact that you've already been hosed.

Fact #1, you hav'nt got a clue as to what you are doing or even who you are dealing with.

Fact #2,Realtime Gaming is synonymous with many things ie: cheaters, liars and even thieves but I can guarantee you my friend that they (RTG) are not stupid and they will eat you alive.

Fact #3, if you have even half a brain you'd better have sense enough to hire an attorney that's going to put a muzzle on you and take care of business.

Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[Pirateofc21]

Pirate21, I went back and thoroughly re-read every post in this thread and I'm convinced that you are the only person that's not aware of the fact that you've already been hosed.

Fact #1, you hav'nt got a clue as to what you are doing or even who you are dealing with.

Fact #2,Realtime Gaming is synonymous with many things ie: cheaters, liars and even thieves but I can guarantee you my friend that they (RTG) are not stupid and they will eat you alive.

Fact #3, if you have even half a brain you'd better have sense enough to hire an attorney that's going to put a muzzle on you and take care of business.

Have a good one.

Cipher

If you thoroughly read all posts you would know I already have an Attorney and he tells me to shut up all the time. I thank you for your concern but I am well aware of my current status and you should remember that right now they see me as a thief even though I am not one.

 

[xianna]

LOL

You should go to work for RTG, Pirate. They think you're capable, and I bet you could negotiate quite a nice salary. By they time they figure out that you don't know quite as much as they think you do, you could make many times more than what they owe you!

 

[Pirateofc21]

LOL

You should go to work for RTG, Pirate. They think you're capable, and I bet you could negotiate quite a nice salary. By they time they figure out that you don't know quite as much as they think you do, you could make many times more than what they owe you!

Like I said I am more than willing to discuss my gameplay, just not as a pre-requisite to getting paid. Put me back on the installment plan that's rightfully mine and we can talk. That's where I stand.

 

[caps]

Well, I'm just a player and have no stake in anything -- though this is an awfully interesting story. At the end of the day, though, if you're on the up-and-up, and if you're flat serious about getting paid, I can't imagine that your interests aren't best served by shutting the hell up, huddling with a heavy-duty lawyer, and settling down to the business of grabbing these folks by the juevos in an unpublicized but legitimately effective way. There have got to be ways for you to do that, and there have got to be authorities who are incented to help. These RTG folks are undoubtedly a lot better at screwing (including by very illegitimate means) chat-happily feckless players than said players are at getting themselves paid, so you ought to assume that, without serious professional help, you're in over your head. Entertaining as all this might be to everyone else, you ought (again, if you're on the up-and-up) to listen to your lawyer, zip it, and turn immediately to some serious nut-cutting. Trying your case here won't do you a molecule of good, because this ain't a court -- it's just silly message board.

On the other hand, it's your money (maybe), so you obviously can do what you wish.

 

[cipher]

Well, I'm just a player and have no stake in anything -- though this is an awfully interesting story. At the end of the day, though, if you're on the up-and-up, and if you're flat serious about getting paid, I can't imagine that your interests aren't best served by shutting the hell up, huddling with a heavy-duty lawyer, and settling down to the business of grabbing these folks by the juevos in an unpublicized but legitimately effective way. There have got to be ways for you to do that, and there have got to be authorities who are incented to help. These RTG folks are undoubtedly a lot better at screwing (including by very illegitimate means) chat-happily feckless players than said players are at getting themselves paid, so you ought to assume that, without serious professional help, you're in over your head. Entertaining as all this might be to everyone else, you ought (again, if you're on the up-and-up) to listen to your lawyer, zip it, and turn immediately to some serious nut-cutting. Trying your case here won't do you a molecule of good, because this ain't a court -- it's just silly message board.

On the other hand, it's your money (maybe), so you obviously can do what you wish.

Damn CAPS, you've got a way with words.

Cipher

 

[chuckwk]

pirate.

Next time take your money to Vegas.... You should never have considered such a wager unless sitting directly in front a dealer, backed by a couple of pitt bosses.... surrounded by red velvet VIP ropes.

 

[The Dude]

Just a heads up.

The casino has forwarded me a copy of the entire phone conversation that had excerpts posted elsewhere. It's about 30 minutes long and consists of a conversation, some of it heated, but much of it in a normal tone of conversation. This is a conversation between Ron and the player and discusses the situation that has been addressed here.

I will not be posting the file because of privacy issues, but I will discuss its contents...unless anyone objects to this. If you do, please let me know -- and I'll let it go.

I'm going to spend some time with this and then report on what I hear as objectively as possible. I should be doing this sometime tomorrow, so bear with me please.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Just a heads up.

The casino has forwarded me a copy of the entire phone conversation that had excerpts posted elsewhere. It's about 30 minutes long and consists of a conversation, some of it heated, but much of it in a normal tone of conversation. This is a conversation between Ron and the player and discusses the situation that has been addressed here.

I will not be posting the file because of privacy issues, but I will discuss its contents...unless anyone objects to this. If you do, please let me know -- and I'll let it go.

I'm going to spend some time with this and then report on what I hear as objectively as possible. I should be doing this sometime tomorrow, so bear with me please.

Just for the record I spoke with Ron at length on more than 1 day so if what they are giving you does not contain more than 1 day's conversation and more than 1 call it is incomplete.

Also will you be requesting the rest of my recorded conversation for comparison? I think this would be in order since you will be reviewing additional info from them. Mine should be included.

Since I have never listened to specifically what you will hear and obviously they have, will I have the opportunity to respond to any questions you might have before you decide? I think this would be in order since, like all along, I won't be present when this happens so I won't have a chance to respond unless you set it up that way.

I was also asked to disclose certain information which I will do here.

It should be noted that I have collected over $50,000 in winnings for the months of November, December, and the beginning of January. I wasn't asked how much I deposited over the same time period, so I won't say. I am currently self employed and the last full time position that I held was that of a computer programmer. I'm not going to post a resume, but I have done several other types of work during my lifetime. I have already stated that I have no knowledge of robot software but I do so again. My gameplay is driven by nothing but me. My thoughts, my decisions, my experience. Nothing else.

I also request that any content to be discussed publicly be run past me first since again I haven't and won't get a chance to hear what you will.

Finally if I have missed anything or you require more information please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks, PirateofC21.

 

[Pirateofc21]

I forgot

Just for the record I spoke with Ron at length on more than 1 day so if what they are giving you does not contain more than 1 day's conversation and more than 1 call it is incomplete.

Also will you be requesting the rest of my recorded conversation for comparison? I think this would be in order since you will be reviewing additional info from them. Mine should be included.

Since I have never listened to specifically what you will hear and obviously they have, will I have the opportunity to respond to any questions you might have before you decide? I think this would be in order since, like all along, I won't be present when this happens so I won't have a chance to respond unless you set it up that way.

I was also asked to disclose certain information which I will do here.

It should be noted that I have collected over $50,000 in winnings for the months of November, December, and the beginning of January. I wasn't asked how much I deposited over the same time period, so I won't say. I am currently self employed and the last full time position that I held was that of a computer programmer. I'm not going to post a resume, but I have done several other types of work during my lifetime. I have already stated that I have no knowledge of robot software but I do so again. My gameplay is driven by nothing but me. My thoughts, my decisions, my experience. Nothing else.

I also request that any content to be discussed publicly be run past me first since again I haven't and won't get a chance to hear what you will.

Finally if I have missed anything or you require more information please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks, PirateofC21.

My wife has just reminded me of the conversation she had with Ron and was wondering if That will be included.

As a matter of fact could you send me a copy of what you will be listening to? Since it includes me in the conversation I would really like the chance to hear what you will. Again I think this is only fair since they have obviously already heard it and I haven't.

 

[Pirateofc21]

No case

Well, I'm just a player and have no stake in anything -- though this is an awfully interesting story. At the end of the day, though, if you're on the up-and-up, and if you're flat serious about getting paid, I can't imagine that your interests aren't best served by shutting the hell up, huddling with a heavy-duty lawyer, and settling down to the business of grabbing these folks by the juevos in an unpublicized but legitimately effective way. There have got to be ways for you to do that, and there have got to be authorities who are incented to help. These RTG folks are undoubtedly a lot better at screwing (including by very illegitimate means) chat-happily feckless players than said players are at getting themselves paid, so you ought to assume that, without serious professional help, you're in over your head. Entertaining as all this might be to everyone else, you ought (again, if you're on the up-and-up) to listen to your lawyer, zip it, and turn immediately to some serious nut-cutting. Trying your case here won't do you a molecule of good, because this ain't a court -- it's just silly message board.

On the other hand, it's your money (maybe), so you obviously can do what you wish.

It should be noted that according to counsel I DO NOT have any legal course of action to follow at this time. "Not for all the money in the world" is how he put it. Besides the winnings are rightfully mine. I shouldn't have to fight. I didn't do anything wrong. Let's remember too that I was being paid promptly until I posted the original PirateofC21 story, which was intended to be a joke, and that is when "the game is good and the player got lucky" changed to "this guy is a cheat, cut him off"??!!!

 

[The Dude]

It should be noted that according to counsel I DO NOT have any legal course of action to follow at this time. "Not for all the money in the world" is how he put it. Besides the winnings are rightfully mine. I shouldn't have to fight. I didn't do anything wrong. Let's remember too that I was being paid promptly until I posted the original PirateofC21 story, which was intended to be a joke, and that is when "the game is good and the player got lucky" changed to "this guy is a cheat, cut him off"??!!!

Let me make something clear here, this is a message board. I'm not here to make any decision on anything, there is no silent masses holding their breaths waiting for me to put forth my words of wosdom that will be etched in stone...I'm just trying to clear some things up especially when you tried to lure everyone to believe that the casino operator was making death threats (they were not), and that you weren't breaking their terms and conditions. It's unfortunate that you've been told that you have no legal recourse, because that is what I would suggest for you to do.

The winnings being rightfully yours is debatable since you admit to breaking the terms and conditions not in one sentence, but discuss this for about ten minutes or so. WTF? And no, your wife was not recorded as far as I know. I believe this is only the recording from the first day where you began negotiations with Ron.

I agree, you should have a copy before I discuss this in detail. I'll get back to you on that one.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Let me make something clear here, this is a message board. I'm not here to make any decision on anything, there is no silent masses holding their breaths waiting for me to put forth my words of wosdom that will be etched in stone...I'm just trying to clear some things up especially when you tried to lure everyone to believe that the casino operator was making death threats (they were not), and that you weren't breaking their terms and conditions. It's unfortunate that you've been told that you have no legal recourse, because that is what I would suggest for you to do.

The winnings being rightfully yours is debatable since you admit to breaking the terms and conditions not in one sentence, but discuss this for about ten minutes or so. WTF? And no, your wife was not recorded as far as I know. I believe this is only the recording from the first day where you began negotiations with Ron.

I agree, you should have a copy before I discuss this in detail. I'll get back to you on that one.

Well my wife was upset by these inferences so maybe you could tell her she has nothing to worry about. She was very upset.

Can I ask why no one including you has taken my side on this? I have no representation. I explained on more than 1 occasion to you why I went along with him and said what I said. It is possible that I misunderstood his intention. I thought he was trying to entrap me so I was digging for information the same way he was. Why is it ok for him and not for me. Why is he allowed to discuss illegal activities without retort. I have done nothing wrong and have co operated completely with your requests. Or did I miss something? You wanted me to disclose personal information which I did. You wanted me to tone things down, I did. You suggested I wait until you can get more information, I did.

Again there is more than 1 day's worth of conversations. Ron told my wife that she was being recorded so she assumed she was. Guilt has been assumed and I have to prove I am innocent. This is not right. Like I said I could say I am the King of Siam, that doesn't mean I am. Where is the proof? C'mon Bryan I was playing along with him to get information. I have been on hold for a month now when all I did deposit and play. You have been critical of me from the get go. Why? Bryan for the last time I didn't break any terms and conditions. Why are you so convinced otherwise. There is no proof. Why don't you point out some of the Casino's mistakes. I have already said that I might have misunderstood the intentions of the operator. Why does this not count. You haven't asked for input from my wife yet she was there listening. I don't appreciate your once again implying that I have been less than truthful with you. WTF.! I only posted what I believed to be the truth at that time.

So, is this your final say? I am just SOL? No proof necessary? I didn't cheat Bryan and the money is rightfully mine and my family's. Remember that this money belongs to my wife and children too. If you honestly believe I intentionally used this Forum inappropriately, I apologize, that was not my intent. My intent was to get help and to let the public know that I am being stiffed. I still am.

I have to take my daughter to school now. I will be back about 9:00 am est.

 

[cipher]

It should be noted that according to counsel I DO NOT have any legal course of action to follow at this time. "Not for all the money in the world" is how he put it. Besides the winnings are rightfully mine. I shouldn't have to fight. I didn't do anything wrong. Let's remember too that I was being paid promptly until I posted the original PirateofC21 story, which was intended to be a joke, and that is when "the game is good and the player got lucky" changed to "this guy is a cheat, cut him off"??!!!

For the record, you do have a case and I can guarantee you that this attorney you purportedly have has absolutely no experience or knowledge of the law incident to gambling on the Internet. When you're ready to stop getting your head kicked in and your ready to stop posting your dirty laundry all over the internet you can email me and I'll put you in touch with the attorney that handled RTG for me. But you can rest assured that he will muzzle you. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[spearmaster]

C'mon Bryan I was playing along with him to get information.

I've had about enough of this BS.

What kind of stoopid fragging eedeeot would PLAY ALONG and risk a payment of $1 million? Not to mention an absolutely stoopid joke about scanning ports?

Believe it or not, behind the scenes I have tended towards actions which would support you IF you were genuine. But I cannot believe the utter stoopidity with which this issue is now playing out.

If you're not about to put a sock in it, I'm certainly not going to have anything more to say on this issue, publicly OR privately. You, sir, are out of your mind.

 

[Pirateofc21]

I've had about enough of this BS.

What kind of stoopid fragging eedeeot would PLAY ALONG and risk a payment of $1 million? Not to mention an absolutely stoopid joke about scanning ports?

Believe it or not, behind the scenes I have tended towards actions which would support you IF you were genuine. But I cannot believe the utter stoopidity with which this issue is now playing out.

If you're not about to put a sock in it, I'm certainly not going to have anything more to say on this issue, publicly OR privately. You, sir, are out of your mind.

I am genuine and do I know you or something. You have some right to insult me. Who the hell are you? Just for the record since nobody will say so, I have voluntered to take a polygraph exam to be given by a mutually recognized authority but no one has taken me up on the offer. I wonder why?

 

[Pirateofc21]

Well my wife was upset by these inferences so maybe you could tell her she has nothing to worry about. She was very upset.

Can I ask why no one including you has taken my side on this? I have no representation. I explained on more than 1 occasion to you why I went along with him and said what I said. It is possible that I misunderstood his intention. I thought he was trying to entrap me so I was digging for information the same way he was. Why is it ok for him and not for me. Why is he allowed to discuss illegal activities without retort. I have done nothing wrong and have co operated completely with your requests. Or did I miss something? You wanted me to disclose personal information which I did. You wanted me to tone things down, I did. You suggested I wait until you can get more information, I did.

Again there is more than 1 day's worth of conversations. Ron told my wife that she was being recorded so she assumed she was. Guilt has been assumed and I have to prove I am innocent. This is not right. Like I said I could say I am the King of Siam, that doesn't mean I am. Where is the proof? C'mon Bryan I was playing along with him to get information. I have been on hold for a month now when all I did deposit and play. You have been critical of me from the get go. Why? Bryan for the last time I didn't break any terms and conditions. Why are you so convinced otherwise. There is no proof. Why don't you point out some of the Casino's mistakes. I have already said that I might have misunderstood the intentions of the operator. Why does this not count. You haven't asked for input from my wife yet she was there listening. I don't appreciate your once again implying that I have been less than truthful with you. WTF.! I only posted what I believed to be the truth at that time.

So, is this your final say? I am just SOL? No proof necessary? I didn't cheat Bryan and the money is rightfully mine and my family's. Remember that this money belongs to my wife and children too. If you honestly believe I intentionally used this Forum inappropriately, I apologize, that was not my intent. My intent was to get help and to let the public know that I am being stiffed. I still am.

I have to take my daughter to school now. I will be back about 9:00 am est.

Also is should be noted that the conversation that Bryan is referring to contains me clearly stating out of frustration "ok, whatever, I'll play it your way". What do you think I meant by that? I have also stated privately (until now) that I am more than willing to take a Polygraph exam by a mutually recognized authority. No one has taken me up on the offer!

 

[spearmaster]

You don't know me and I don't know you.

But you don't seem to understand common sense. And you obviously know that polygraphs are not accepted as evidence in court.

I've been in this business long enough to know the system better than most - and I don't buy the excuse that the casino is giving you - at least not yet - but you certainly have a most nutty way of trying to claim what you believe is yours - and thumbing your noses at everyone else at the same time.

I have never seen anyone do so much to damage his own case as you have - and especially not for an amount so large.

There ARE people trying to get to the bottom of this behind the scenes - but you seem intent on doing as much damage as you possibly can.

So if you sink your own ship, don't blame anyone else. But I stand by my comments.

 

[gamblinboi]

pirateofc21, if i were in your shoes, first thing i would have done was find a good lawyer who knows what they are doing with respect to online gambling and casino cases. I'm just a player and that's my advice to ya - shutup on the message boards, cuz it ain't gonna do sh*t talking on 'em, and find a way to get at them legally.

As a "software developper" myself, if they are somehow emplying that by "scanning the ports" you can cheat RTG software, I'd be laughing my ass off. First off, you wouldn't scan ports, you'd merely packet sniff the network packets. If you can beat their encryption, AND if they are as STUPID as to send an entire string of random numbers to indicate the cards for each hand (prior to the player deciding what he would do) well then I could see how their software could be hacked. BUT... let's be honest here, what major software provider would do that? Especially a solidly built software like RTG? No, that would be too pathetic and would have been hacked a loooooong time ago. All of this doesn't make sense. Pirate, you need to take this to a lawyer, NOT some message boards where NOTHING will get accomplished..

 

[Pirateofc21]

pirateofc21, if i were in your shoes, first thing i would have done was find a good lawyer who knows what they are doing with respect to online gambling and casino cases. I'm just a player and that's my advice to ya - shutup on the message boards, cuz it ain't gonna do sh*t talking on 'em, and find a way to get at them legally.

As a "software developper" myself, if they are somehow emplying that by "scanning the ports" you can cheat RTG software, I'd be laughing my ass off. First off, you wouldn't scan ports, you'd merely packet sniff the network packets. If you can beat their encryption, AND if they are as STUPID as to send an entire string of random numbers to indicate the cards for each hand (prior to the player deciding what he would do) well then I could see how their software could be hacked. BUT... let's be honest here, what major software provider would do that? Especially a solidly built software like RTG? No, that would be too pathetic and would have been hacked a loooooong time ago. All of this doesn't make sense. Pirate, you need to take this to a lawyer, NOT some message boards where NOTHING will get accomplished..

I already have. He has said I have no case for a US court.

 

[Pirateofc21]

You don't know me and I don't know you.

But you don't seem to understand common sense. And you obviously know that polygraphs are not accepted as evidence in court.

I've been in this business long enough to know the system better than most - and I don't buy the excuse that the casino is giving you - at least not yet - but you certainly have a most nutty way of trying to claim what you believe is yours - and thumbing your noses at everyone else at the same time.

I have never seen anyone do so much to damage his own case as you have - and especially not for an amount so large.

There ARE people trying to get to the bottom of this behind the scenes - but you seem intent on doing as much damage as you possibly can.

So if you sink your own ship, don't blame anyone else. But I stand by my comments.

The bottom line is no matter how stupid or not what I say is this doesn't change any of the facts here. Does it?

 

[spearmaster]

this doesn't change any of the facts

If they are indeed facts. No proof has been provided by either side so all we have now is rumor, speculation, conjecture - not facts.

 

[gamblinboi]

If they are indeed facts. No proof has been provided by either side so all we have now is rumor, speculation, conjecture - not facts.

i dunno spearmaster. up until a while ago, the facts were agreed upon - the player won 1.3million. the game was fine. the casino even started to pay the player and paid something like $50000. Then all of a sudden the casino decides not to pay anymore. Those facts are true and documented..

i think it's up to the casino now to prove that he did cheat, and if they can't, then they should pony up the rest.


pirate - quick question. why play with scum like portofino/hamptons? why not somewhere more reliable like inebet?

 

[hhcfreebie]

My wife is a lawyer. Last night I asked my wife your case, we had a fun conversation for an hour and here are her points:
(1) Although she doesn't have any evidence, she won't take a case such as this because it's too weak.
(2) RTG has no right to close your other accounts. In fact, you can insist to talk to the casino and the casino only if you want to.
(3) Most important of all, you should seek the best lawyer and remain quiet.
She only charged me a hug for the advice.
Bottom line is, If a lawyer doesn't take your case, you should shop around and find the best lawyer that take your case. Remeber, RTG's lawyers is documenting everything you said here and they can be evidence against you in the court.
Good luck, do come back and tell us your story when you win.

 

[cipher]

i dunno spearmaster. up until a while ago, the facts were agreed upon - the player won 1.3million. the game was fine. the casino even started to pay the player and paid something like $50000. Then all of a sudden the casino decides not to pay anymore. Those facts are true and documented..

i think it's up to the casino now to prove that he did cheat, and if they can't, then they should pony up the rest.


pirate - quick question. why play with scum like portofino/hamptons? why not somewhere more reliable like inebet?

That's pretty much a mouthful . With one caveat, they should pony up all of the balance as the CASINO has breached their own agreement and a case can be made for the immediate acceleration of the unpaid balance in full.

Cipher

 

[caps]

If you're on the up-and-up, I can assure you that with $1.3 million on the table, you can find a lawyer with the guts and the brains to make something happen. There are many ways to skin a cat (or a rogue casino and those who support it). Your first guy may just be a cluck -- or, perhaps he reads these boards, and simply concluded that he doesn't need the headache of a client who seems addicted to the act of stepping on his own . . . well, whatever.

 

[Pirateofc21]

That's pretty much a mouthful . With one caveat, they should pony up all of the balance as the CASINO has breached their own agreement and a case can be made for the immediate acceleration of the unpaid balance in full.

Cipher

I am also still locked out of my other accounts.

 

[Pirateofc21]

My wife is a lawyer. Last night I asked my wife your case, we had a fun conversation for an hour and here are her points:
(1) Although she doesn't have any evidence, she won't take a case such as this because it's too weak.
(2) RTG has no right to close your other accounts. In fact, you can insist to talk to the casino and the casino only if you want to.
(3) Most important of all, you should seek the best lawyer and remain quiet.
She only charged me a hug for the advice.
Bottom line is, If a lawyer doesn't take your case, you should shop around and find the best lawyer that take your case. Remeber, RTG's lawyers is documenting everything you said here and they can be evidence against you in the court.
Good luck, do come back and tell us your story when you win.

I have no interest in fighting. The Casino should do the right thing and pay me without a fight.

 

[spearmaster]

*besides* those facts, GB... LOL...

Progress is stalled on "he said, she said"-type back-and-forth slinging of accusations. He says he didn't use a bot. They say he did. He says he was only "playing along". They say he admitted to using a device. He posts a crude message which he says was a joke. They say it is indication of unusual activity.

None of which has been proven on either side.

To be frank, I could care less whether a bot was used or not - if one was used, and the casino is able to prove this fact, the next question becomes "Did it play normally or did it exploit some bug in the software"?

If the casino cannot prove that a bot was used to exploit some bug in the software, then they ought to pay up. Everything else is irrelevant in my opinion.

But I still get pissed off when I see the BS that is being flung back and forth - and if this continues I simply say "fluck that crap" and go back to doing other more important things.

That means either Pirate find a manner to prove that he did not game the RTG system, or else keep quiet and let the investigation continue without the raucous sideshow.

 

[spearmaster]

She only charged me a hug for the advice.

Remind me to get in touch with her when I need professional legal advice Can't ask for a better deal than that!

 

[Pirateofc21]

*besides* those facts, GB... LOL...

Progress is stalled on "he said, she said"-type back-and-forth slinging of accusations. He says he didn't use a bot. They say he did. He says he was only "playing along". They say he admitted to using a device. He posts a crude message which he says was a joke. They say it is indication of unusual activity.

None of which has been proven on either side.

To be frank, I could care less whether a bot was used or not - if one was used, and the casino is able to prove this fact, the next question becomes "Did it play normally or did it exploit some bug in the software"?

If the casino cannot prove that a bot was used to exploit some bug in the software, then they ought to pay up. Everything else is irrelevant in my opinion.

But I still get pissed off when I see the BS that is being flung back and forth - and if this continues I simply say "fluck that crap" and go back to doing other more important things.

That means either Pirate find a manner to prove that he did not game the RTG system, or else keep quiet and let the investigation continue without the raucous sideshow.

Sure, no problem. As I remember it RTG already examined the software and concluded it was fine. This is public knowledge. The proof is in my play. Have it analyzed by an independent auditor.

 

[caruso]

To be frank, I couldn't care less whether a bot was used or not - if one was used, and the casino is able to prove this fact, the next question becomes "Did it play normally or did it exploit some bug in the software"? If the casino cannot prove that a bot was used to exploit some bug in the software, then they ought to pay up. Everything else is irrelevant in my opinion.

Biiiiiiiiiingooooooo. Absolutely. That's exactly the truth - LOL, when did I last agree with G2B? I'm overjoyed to see an affiliate displaying such integrity. WTFG.

It's alarming that P21 says his legal counsel has already told him that, having no case, he should forget the matter. I hope this is NOT so, and that people here who have already commented on the fact, or others elsewhere, will be able to help to get the sort of legal help he needs (Cipher, Mary, whoever). It seems absurd that a software provider located in the US can somehow NOT be legally accountable when committing a felony.

 

[caps]

Well, if he in fact used a robot, and if the rules in effect at the time explicitly prohibited the use of a robot -- regardless of whether the use of the robot affected the outcome of play -- then he's toast. It is inconceivable to me that the laws of any jurisdiction, whether US state, US federal, or otherwise, would permit recovery when openly-published, easily-understood rules of play were violated, even though the rules themselves perhaps make little sense.

If he didn't use a robot, though, then Caruso's hit it right on the head -- RTG is headquartered in Atlanta, and it is unimaginable to me that a ballsey, creative lawyer couldn't make immense hay out of that.

 

[gamblinboi]

robot shmobot.

that would be EASY to detect - if the guy was playing C21 hands in <1s when in reality a human player would need 2-3 or more seconds to make a play..

i'm assuming RTG logs the exact time of each hand, and such.

another indicator - was this straight play for 10-12 hours with NO breaks and NO bumps in the speed of play? Or was he like a human player, taking a break here and there to pee, etc etc. Heck even if he was wearing diapers i'd assume it would take a few seconds for him to squeeze out a few drops and get back into playing mode (forgive the nastiness of that image, but apperently SOME gamblers DO do that when playing slots).

if he was using a bot, this would be totally evident in the first place and the caisno would have known right away.

I'd reiterate that in my opinion, his previous "cryptic post" about ports and such was nonsensical. Any well designed casino software would NEVER make it possible to cheat by sniffing packets (eg, observing open ports), that would just have killed them AGES ago. The engineers at RTG would have to be .. well, I don't know, on crack, but for them to build a solid software that looks so good, plays so well, and is so solid, and then bamn forget to make it impervious to packet sniffing/port scanning, well that's just bordering on ludicrous. Say what you will about Staw, but I hear he's a very smart engineer even if he lacks business sense by letting people like Warren Cloud license his software.

 

[dirk_dangerous]

Pirate, you made two very big mistakes:

1. You won a lot of money at an online casino. Only a small percentage of online casinos have the bankroll to pay a win of this size.

2. You came on this board, bragging, talking about being involved with a group of players, and then you threw the win into RTG's face.

Now in the real world you probably did nothing wrong, but online casinos are in a realm of their ownand in their world you did a number of things wrong.

While there are a few casinos and portal owners who try to play by the conventional rules, 99% of online casinos and sportsbooks play by their own rules, and they often make up the rules as they go along. If you dont conduct yourself with that in mind, you will get screwed. You didnt and now youre getting screwed.

I hate to see this happen to you, but a little foresight and thought would have saved you a lot of headaches. You need to throw out all your learned concepts of right and wrong when dealing this issuethey simply dont apply to the world of online gambling.

For what its worth, Ive played at Hampton many times, and Ive never had a problem with paymentsand Ive had some decent wins (by normal standards).

Good luck, youre going to need it.

 

[mary]

This is painful to watch. This may be the most expensive message thread ever.

I have no interest in fighting. The Casino should do the right thing and pay me without a fight.

If the casino was run by people who enjoyed "doing the right thing", they wouldn't be in the online casino business or many other businesses for that matter.

Get real. This is a casino that has no information on its site about who owns it, where they are, how disputes will be handled. It is not licensed and not legal in some places. Cipher has rustled up a lawyer interested in your situation. Much sympathy has been expressed for your position, but that is simply not going to be enough. Why are you being so stubborn as to throw away a million plus?

Dear Mrs. Pirate,

1. Your husband needs a vacation in a location without computers. If you have to spend some money on large companions to take computers, pagers, pda's and cell phones out of his hands, it will be worth it. Tranquilizer darts may also be an option.

2. Contact Cipher. Talk to the nice attorney.

 

[Pirateofc21]

This is painful to watch. This may be the most expensive message thread ever.



If the casino was run by people who enjoyed "doing the right thing", they wouldn't be in the online casino business or many other businesses for that matter.

Get real. This is a casino that has no information on its site about who owns it, where they are, how disputes will be handled. It is not licensed and not legal in some places. Cipher has rustled up a lawyer interested in your situation. Much sympathy has been expressed for your position, but that is simply not going to be enough. Why are you being so stubborn as to throw away a million plus?

Dear Mrs. Pirate,

1. Your husband needs a vacation in a location without computers. If you have to spend some money on large companions to take computers, pagers, pda's and cell phones out of his hands, it will be worth it. Tranquilizer darts may also be an option.

2. Contact Cipher. Talk to the nice attorney.

Can you explain how I am throwing away a million plus? I don't see that.

I would love to go on vacation but unfortunately right now I feel I should be focused here. This is a life changing event the likes of which most people won't see in a lifetime so I am a little concerned about turning my back for a while. That's all.

I sent an e-mail to Cipher requesting contact details.

 

[spearmaster]

Can you explain how I am throwing away a million plus? I don't see that.

What part of "sock" don't you understand? How many times do you have to be told to stop talking?

 

[Pirateofc21]

Pirate, you made two very big mistakes:

1. You won a lot of money at an online casino. Only a small percentage of online casinos have the bankroll to pay a win of this size.

2. You came on this board, bragging, talking about being involved with a group of players, and then you threw the win into RTG's face.

Now in the real world you probably did nothing wrong, but online casinos are in a realm of their ownand in their world you did a number of things wrong.

While there are a few casinos and portal owners who try to play by the conventional rules, 99% of online casinos and sportsbooks play by their own rules, and they often make up the rules as they go along. If you dont conduct yourself with that in mind, you will get screwed. You didnt and now youre getting screwed.

I hate to see this happen to you, but a little foresight and thought would have saved you a lot of headaches. You need to throw out all your learned concepts of right and wrong when dealing this issuethey simply dont apply to the world of online gambling.

For what its worth, Ive played at Hampton many times, and Ive never had a problem with paymentsand Ive had some decent wins (by normal standards).

Good luck, youre going to need it.

1. Hampton is part of that small %, no?

2.As tactless as that might have been it does not make me a cheater.

3.I have paid dearly for that mistake.

4.What else can I do?

 

[wossisface]

How about appearing on Jerry Springer?

 

[jyde]

Why did this happen? RTG cleared the game and the player. No bugs in software - no sign of cheating of any kind or use of robot. Casino starts paying the guy and will continue to do the next 6 years (yeah right!).

Suddenly the casino claims the player admitted on phone that a bot was used.

Pirate - everything seemed in order - wtf. were you doing on phone with them in the first place? Talking bullshit that *could* be *misunderstood* as if you were using a bot??

What everyone here fails to understand is, why you ended up in this situation when a week ago everything seemed to be fine.

 

[cipher]

Can you explain how I am throwing away a million plus? I don't see that.

I would love to go on vacation but unfortunately right now I feel I should be focused here. This is a life changing event the likes of which most people won't see in a lifetime so I am a little concerned about turning my back for a while. That's all.

I sent an e-mail to Cipher requesting contact details.

Not that I doubt your veracity. But it's 4:30 PM on Friday here in California and I've checked all my mail boxes and there's nothing in any of those mailboxes that could be remotely construed as having coming from you.

Lastly, I'm more than willing to make the connection for you but it has't to be with the understanding that you've made your last post on any forum incident to this matter. The attorney that I'll put you in contact with is nothing short of a HEAT LITIGATOR, he does not play games and he does run the show.

Email me if you like, but make sure you understand full well what I'm saying here. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[Pirateofc21]

Why did this happen? RTG cleared the game and the player. No bugs in software - no sign of cheating of any kind or use of robot. Casino starts paying the guy and will continue to do the next 6 years (yeah right!).

Suddenly the casino claims the player admitted on phone that a bot was used.

Pirate - everything seemed in order - wtf. were you doing on phone with them in the first place? Talking bullshit that *could* be *misunderstood* as if you were using a bot??

What everyone here fails to understand is, why you ended up in this situation when a week ago everything seemed to be fine.

It started after my first posting of Pofc21.