RTG's Caribbean 21 lie

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This whole frigging thing amazes me.

Hey hey hey, not likely as I've personally seen silliness displayed by both sides of the gambling fence for prolly no more than 50 quid, you ~B will have seen a lot more than I over the years.

For 1.3 million Bryan... Nothing will surprise me. Hell what is happening may be original but amaze me - not.

1.3 million is a lot for you to get involved with imo and you have set yourself up to get had a go at whichever way you rule on this. You just know you're gonna get accused by someone of being on the take if you rule for the casino on this one or the usual anti Meister blurb will surface if you rule against RTG/Hamptons.

You take your time and cover yourself please, this is a lot of money. A LOT of money and size matters..

I also want more than you posting evidence if and when it arrives and feel the casino owe you the due diligence of thier presence here at some stage, even if at the end. This should not be all on you to deal with.

Cheers.
 
amandajm said:
You just know you're gonna get accused by someone of being on the take if you rule for the casino on this one or the usual anti Meister blurb will surface if you rule against RTG/Hamptons.


Very true, Amanda.

If I were Bryan, I wouldn't want to be involved in this one at all.

Pirate can afford and has seen a lawyer. For this much money, I think that's probably a better option for everyone.
 
xianna said:
Very true, Amanda.

If I were Bryan, I wouldn't want to be involved in this one at all.

Pirate can afford and has seen a lawyer. For this much money, I think that's probably a better option for everyone.
I don't agree. I do have a lawyer but I don't not think that is the best option. Here's why. Just as Bryan has pointed out endlessly sending bullets downrange creates smoke that will obscure the target and in that case pulling out a bigger gun would cause more smoke and further obscure the target. That would not be in my best interest. I am not out to make enemies, only to get paid.
 
Like others, I have no way to know the whole conversations or what has or has not been said. There are a couple of things which bother me, though. First and foremost, IF the casino has less than ironclad proof that something was amiss here, the implications are tremendous for all players of online casinos. Secondly, there does seem to be some things which don't add up from the info that pirate has provided:
A.) He seemed concerned that he had to pay for a copy of the logs. Now, I don't know how much they were asking, but any reasonable price would be worth investing, when as much money as this is involved.
B.) The phone conversation is obviously not all there. It starts and stops in some unusual places and just doesn't flow right.
Third, Pirate keeps asking why other accounts have been locked. If illegal play was used on one account, why wouldn't the casino suspect this to be the case in other accounts?
Fourth, the person that Pirate talked to did sound like a lawyer. The tactics of pressure, friendliness, an offer to settle & then to suggest some bad consequences sounds too much like a lawyer doing the doubletalk. Which brings me to the final point:
Fifth, If the casino has such solid proof- why even bother to offer a settlement for tens of thousands of dollars? Mysteries are fun!
 
love2vegas said:
Fifth, If the casino has such solid proof- why even bother to offer a settlement for tens of thousands of dollars? Mysteries are fun!


Yeah, they are! :)

I thought the settlement was being offered only if Pirate would agree to be more specific on just how he cheated, but I could be totally off.

I think RTG really believes he cheated. But I don't see where the proof is. They want the proof, and that's what they were willing to buy.
 
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love2vegas said:
Like others, I have no way to know the whole conversations or what has or has not been said. There are a couple of things which bother me, though. First and foremost, IF the casino has less than ironclad proof that something was amiss here, the implications are tremendous for all players of online casinos. Secondly, there does seem to be some things which don't add up from the info that pirate has provided:
A.) He seemed concerned that he had to pay for a copy of the logs. Now, I don't know how much they were asking, but any reasonable price would be worth investing, when as much money as this is involved.
B.) The phone conversation is obviously not all there. It starts and stops in some unusual places and just doesn't flow right.
Third, Pirate keeps asking why other accounts have been locked. If illegal play was used on one account, why wouldn't the casino suspect this to be the case in other accounts?
Fourth, the person that Pirate talked to did sound like a lawyer. The tactics of pressure, friendliness, an offer to settle & then to suggest some bad consequences sounds too much like a lawyer doing the doubletalk. Which brings me to the final point:
Fifth, If the casino has such solid proof- why even bother to offer a settlement for tens of thousands of dollars? Mysteries are fun!

A. Why should I pay for what other casinos give away for free?

B. My machine has pre set recording limits so it's cutting in and out is a result of the machine doing it's job, not my selectively turning it on and off.

C. I don't know about you but I live in a Democracy. Where I come from we don't assume guilt first. Suspicion breeds fear and fear can distort ones perception of a situation.

D. ?

E. You can figure this one out.
 
xianna said:
Yeah, they are! :)

I thought the settlement was being offered only if Pirate would agree to be more specific on just how he cheated, but I could be totally off.

I think RTG really believes he cheated. But I don't see where the proof is. They want the proof, and that's what they were willing to buy.

A. Everybody does.

B. I didn't !

C. I welcome the opportunity to discuss my style or technique with them. Also it should be noted that there were several factors working in tandem here not the least of which was a $10,000 table max. Without that, ( Thank You Hampton ) none of this would have been possible.
 
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Pirateofc21 said:
A. Why should I pay for what other casinos give away for free?

B. My machine has pre set recording limits so it's cutting in and out is a result of the machine doing it's job, not my selectively turning it on and off.

C. I don't know about you but I live in a Democracy. Where I come from we don't assume guilt first. Suspicion breeds fear and fear can distort ones perception of a situation.

D. ?

E. You can figure this one out.

Pirate21, I went back and thoroughly re-read every post in this thread and I'm convinced that you are the only person that's not aware of the fact that you've already been hosed.

Fact #1, you hav'nt got a clue as to what you are doing or even who you are dealing with.

Fact #2,Realtime Gaming is synonymous with many things ie: cheaters, liars and even thieves but I can guarantee you my friend that they (RTG) are not stupid and they will eat you alive.

Fact #3, if you have even half a brain you'd better have sense enough to hire an attorney that's going to put a muzzle on you and take care of business.

Have a good one.

Cipher
 
cipher said:
Pirate21, I went back and thoroughly re-read every post in this thread and I'm convinced that you are the only person that's not aware of the fact that you've already been hosed.

Fact #1, you hav'nt got a clue as to what you are doing or even who you are dealing with.

Fact #2,Realtime Gaming is synonymous with many things ie: cheaters, liars and even thieves but I can guarantee you my friend that they (RTG) are not stupid and they will eat you alive.

Fact #3, if you have even half a brain you'd better have sense enough to hire an attorney that's going to put a muzzle on you and take care of business.

Have a good one.

Cipher

If you thoroughly read all posts you would know I already have an Attorney and he tells me to shut up all the time. I thank you for your concern but I am well aware of my current status and you should remember that right now they see me as a thief even though I am not one.
 
LOL

You should go to work for RTG, Pirate. They think you're capable, and I bet you could negotiate quite a nice salary. By they time they figure out that you don't know quite as much as they think you do, you could make many times more than what they owe you!
 
xianna said:
LOL

You should go to work for RTG, Pirate. They think you're capable, and I bet you could negotiate quite a nice salary. By they time they figure out that you don't know quite as much as they think you do, you could make many times more than what they owe you!

Like I said I am more than willing to discuss my gameplay, just not as a pre-requisite to getting paid. Put me back on the installment plan that's rightfully mine and we can talk. That's where I stand.
 
Well, I'm just a player and have no stake in anything -- though this is an awfully interesting story. At the end of the day, though, if you're on the up-and-up, and if you're flat serious about getting paid, I can't imagine that your interests aren't best served by shutting the hell up, huddling with a heavy-duty lawyer, and settling down to the business of grabbing these folks by the juevos in an unpublicized but legitimately effective way. There have got to be ways for you to do that, and there have got to be authorities who are incented to help. These RTG folks are undoubtedly a lot better at screwing (including by very illegitimate means) chat-happily feckless players than said players are at getting themselves paid, so you ought to assume that, without serious professional help, you're in over your head. Entertaining as all this might be to everyone else, you ought (again, if you're on the up-and-up) to listen to your lawyer, zip it, and turn immediately to some serious nut-cutting. Trying your case here won't do you a molecule of good, because this ain't a court -- it's just silly message board.

On the other hand, it's your money (maybe), so you obviously can do what you wish.
 
caps said:
Well, I'm just a player and have no stake in anything -- though this is an awfully interesting story. At the end of the day, though, if you're on the up-and-up, and if you're flat serious about getting paid, I can't imagine that your interests aren't best served by shutting the hell up, huddling with a heavy-duty lawyer, and settling down to the business of grabbing these folks by the juevos in an unpublicized but legitimately effective way. There have got to be ways for you to do that, and there have got to be authorities who are incented to help. These RTG folks are undoubtedly a lot better at screwing (including by very illegitimate means) chat-happily feckless players than said players are at getting themselves paid, so you ought to assume that, without serious professional help, you're in over your head. Entertaining as all this might be to everyone else, you ought (again, if you're on the up-and-up) to listen to your lawyer, zip it, and turn immediately to some serious nut-cutting. Trying your case here won't do you a molecule of good, because this ain't a court -- it's just silly message board.

On the other hand, it's your money (maybe), so you obviously can do what you wish.

Damn CAPS, you've got a way with words.

Cipher
 
pirate.

Next time take your money to Vegas.... You should never have considered such a wager unless sitting directly in front a dealer, backed by a couple of pitt bosses.... surrounded by red velvet VIP ropes.
 
Just a heads up.

The casino has forwarded me a copy of the entire phone conversation that had excerpts posted elsewhere. It's about 30 minutes long and consists of a conversation, some of it heated, but much of it in a normal tone of conversation. This is a conversation between Ron and the player and discusses the situation that has been addressed here.

I will not be posting the file because of privacy issues, but I will discuss its contents...unless anyone objects to this. If you do, please let me know -- and I'll let it go.

I'm going to spend some time with this and then report on what I hear as objectively as possible. I should be doing this sometime tomorrow, so bear with me please.
 
casinomeister said:
Just a heads up.

The casino has forwarded me a copy of the entire phone conversation that had excerpts posted elsewhere. It's about 30 minutes long and consists of a conversation, some of it heated, but much of it in a normal tone of conversation. This is a conversation between Ron and the player and discusses the situation that has been addressed here.

I will not be posting the file because of privacy issues, but I will discuss its contents...unless anyone objects to this. If you do, please let me know -- and I'll let it go.

I'm going to spend some time with this and then report on what I hear as objectively as possible. I should be doing this sometime tomorrow, so bear with me please.

Just for the record I spoke with Ron at length on more than 1 day so if what they are giving you does not contain more than 1 day's conversation and more than 1 call it is incomplete.

Also will you be requesting the rest of my recorded conversation for comparison? I think this would be in order since you will be reviewing additional info from them. Mine should be included.

Since I have never listened to specifically what you will hear and obviously they have, will I have the opportunity to respond to any questions you might have before you decide? I think this would be in order since, like all along, I won't be present when this happens so I won't have a chance to respond unless you set it up that way.

I was also asked to disclose certain information which I will do here.

It should be noted that I have collected over $50,000 in winnings for the months of November, December, and the beginning of January. I wasn't asked how much I deposited over the same time period, so I won't say. I am currently self employed and the last full time position that I held was that of a computer programmer. I'm not going to post a resume, but I have done several other types of work during my lifetime. I have already stated that I have no knowledge of robot software but I do so again. My gameplay is driven by nothing but me. My thoughts, my decisions, my experience. Nothing else.

I also request that any content to be discussed publicly be run past me first since again I haven't and won't get a chance to hear what you will.

Finally if I have missed anything or you require more information please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks, PirateofC21.
 
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I forgot

Pirateofc21 said:
Just for the record I spoke with Ron at length on more than 1 day so if what they are giving you does not contain more than 1 day's conversation and more than 1 call it is incomplete.

Also will you be requesting the rest of my recorded conversation for comparison? I think this would be in order since you will be reviewing additional info from them. Mine should be included.

Since I have never listened to specifically what you will hear and obviously they have, will I have the opportunity to respond to any questions you might have before you decide? I think this would be in order since, like all along, I won't be present when this happens so I won't have a chance to respond unless you set it up that way.

I was also asked to disclose certain information which I will do here.

It should be noted that I have collected over $50,000 in winnings for the months of November, December, and the beginning of January. I wasn't asked how much I deposited over the same time period, so I won't say. I am currently self employed and the last full time position that I held was that of a computer programmer. I'm not going to post a resume, but I have done several other types of work during my lifetime. I have already stated that I have no knowledge of robot software but I do so again. My gameplay is driven by nothing but me. My thoughts, my decisions, my experience. Nothing else.

I also request that any content to be discussed publicly be run past me first since again I haven't and won't get a chance to hear what you will.

Finally if I have missed anything or you require more information please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks, PirateofC21.

My wife has just reminded me of the conversation she had with Ron and was wondering if That will be included.

As a matter of fact could you send me a copy of what you will be listening to? Since it includes me in the conversation I would really like the chance to hear what you will. Again I think this is only fair since they have obviously already heard it and I haven't.
 
No case

caps said:
Well, I'm just a player and have no stake in anything -- though this is an awfully interesting story. At the end of the day, though, if you're on the up-and-up, and if you're flat serious about getting paid, I can't imagine that your interests aren't best served by shutting the hell up, huddling with a heavy-duty lawyer, and settling down to the business of grabbing these folks by the juevos in an unpublicized but legitimately effective way. There have got to be ways for you to do that, and there have got to be authorities who are incented to help. These RTG folks are undoubtedly a lot better at screwing (including by very illegitimate means) chat-happily feckless players than said players are at getting themselves paid, so you ought to assume that, without serious professional help, you're in over your head. Entertaining as all this might be to everyone else, you ought (again, if you're on the up-and-up) to listen to your lawyer, zip it, and turn immediately to some serious nut-cutting. Trying your case here won't do you a molecule of good, because this ain't a court -- it's just silly message board.

On the other hand, it's your money (maybe), so you obviously can do what you wish.


It should be noted that according to counsel I DO NOT have any legal course of action to follow at this time. "Not for all the money in the world" is how he put it. Besides the winnings are rightfully mine. I shouldn't have to fight. I didn't do anything wrong. Let's remember too that I was being paid promptly until I posted the original PirateofC21 story, which was intended to be a joke, and that is when "the game is good and the player got lucky" changed to "this guy is a cheat, cut him off"??!!!
 
It should be noted that according to counsel I DO NOT have any legal course of action to follow at this time. "Not for all the money in the world" is how he put it. Besides the winnings are rightfully mine. I shouldn't have to fight. I didn't do anything wrong. Let's remember too that I was being paid promptly until I posted the original PirateofC21 story, which was intended to be a joke, and that is when "the game is good and the player got lucky" changed to "this guy is a cheat, cut him off"??!!!

Let me make something clear here, this is a message board. I'm not here to make any decision on anything, there is no silent masses holding their breaths waiting for me to put forth my words of wosdom that will be etched in stone...I'm just trying to clear some things up especially when you tried to lure everyone to believe that the casino operator was making death threats (they were not), and that you weren't breaking their terms and conditions. It's unfortunate that you've been told that you have no legal recourse, because that is what I would suggest for you to do.

The winnings being rightfully yours is debatable since you admit to breaking the terms and conditions not in one sentence, but discuss this for about ten minutes or so. WTF? And no, your wife was not recorded as far as I know. I believe this is only the recording from the first day where you began negotiations with Ron.

I agree, you should have a copy before I discuss this in detail. I'll get back to you on that one.
 
casinomeister said:
Let me make something clear here, this is a message board. I'm not here to make any decision on anything, there is no silent masses holding their breaths waiting for me to put forth my words of wosdom that will be etched in stone...I'm just trying to clear some things up especially when you tried to lure everyone to believe that the casino operator was making death threats (they were not), and that you weren't breaking their terms and conditions. It's unfortunate that you've been told that you have no legal recourse, because that is what I would suggest for you to do.

The winnings being rightfully yours is debatable since you admit to breaking the terms and conditions not in one sentence, but discuss this for about ten minutes or so. WTF? And no, your wife was not recorded as far as I know. I believe this is only the recording from the first day where you began negotiations with Ron.

I agree, you should have a copy before I discuss this in detail. I'll get back to you on that one.

Well my wife was upset by these inferences so maybe you could tell her she has nothing to worry about. She was very upset.

Can I ask why no one including you has taken my side on this? I have no representation. I explained on more than 1 occasion to you why I went along with him and said what I said. It is possible that I misunderstood his intention. I thought he was trying to entrap me so I was digging for information the same way he was. Why is it ok for him and not for me. Why is he allowed to discuss illegal activities without retort. I have done nothing wrong and have co operated completely with your requests. Or did I miss something? You wanted me to disclose personal information which I did. You wanted me to tone things down, I did. You suggested I wait until you can get more information, I did.

Again there is more than 1 day's worth of conversations. Ron told my wife that she was being recorded so she assumed she was. Guilt has been assumed and I have to prove I am innocent. This is not right. Like I said I could say I am the King of Siam, that doesn't mean I am. Where is the proof? C'mon Bryan I was playing along with him to get information. I have been on hold for a month now when all I did deposit and play. You have been critical of me from the get go. Why? Bryan for the last time I didn't break any terms and conditions. Why are you so convinced otherwise. There is no proof. Why don't you point out some of the Casino's mistakes. I have already said that I might have misunderstood the intentions of the operator. Why does this not count. You haven't asked for input from my wife yet she was there listening. I don't appreciate your once again implying that I have been less than truthful with you. WTF.! I only posted what I believed to be the truth at that time.

So, is this your final say? I am just SOL? No proof necessary? I didn't cheat Bryan and the money is rightfully mine and my family's. Remember that this money belongs to my wife and children too. If you honestly believe I intentionally used this Forum inappropriately, I apologize, that was not my intent. My intent was to get help and to let the public know that I am being stiffed. I still am.

I have to take my daughter to school now. I will be back about 9:00 am est.
 
Pirateofc21 said:
It should be noted that according to counsel I DO NOT have any legal course of action to follow at this time. "Not for all the money in the world" is how he put it. Besides the winnings are rightfully mine. I shouldn't have to fight. I didn't do anything wrong. Let's remember too that I was being paid promptly until I posted the original PirateofC21 story, which was intended to be a joke, and that is when "the game is good and the player got lucky" changed to "this guy is a cheat, cut him off"??!!!

For the record, you do have a case and I can guarantee you that this attorney you purportedly have has absolutely no experience or knowledge of the law incident to gambling on the Internet. When you're ready to stop getting your head kicked in and your ready to stop posting your dirty laundry all over the internet you can email me and I'll put you in touch with the attorney that handled RTG for me. But you can rest assured that he will muzzle you. Have a good one.

Cipher
 
C'mon Bryan I was playing along with him to get information.
I've had about enough of this BS.

What kind of stoopid fragging eedeeot would PLAY ALONG and risk a payment of $1 million? Not to mention an absolutely stoopid joke about scanning ports?

Believe it or not, behind the scenes I have tended towards actions which would support you IF you were genuine. But I cannot believe the utter stoopidity with which this issue is now playing out.

If you're not about to put a sock in it, I'm certainly not going to have anything more to say on this issue, publicly OR privately. You, sir, are out of your mind.
 
spearmaster said:
I've had about enough of this BS.

What kind of stoopid fragging eedeeot would PLAY ALONG and risk a payment of $1 million? Not to mention an absolutely stoopid joke about scanning ports?

Believe it or not, behind the scenes I have tended towards actions which would support you IF you were genuine. But I cannot believe the utter stoopidity with which this issue is now playing out.

If you're not about to put a sock in it, I'm certainly not going to have anything more to say on this issue, publicly OR privately. You, sir, are out of your mind.

I am genuine and do I know you or something. You have some right to insult me. Who the hell are you? Just for the record since nobody will say so, I have voluntered to take a polygraph exam to be given by a mutually recognized authority but no one has taken me up on the offer. I wonder why?
 
Pirateofc21 said:
Well my wife was upset by these inferences so maybe you could tell her she has nothing to worry about. She was very upset.

Can I ask why no one including you has taken my side on this? I have no representation. I explained on more than 1 occasion to you why I went along with him and said what I said. It is possible that I misunderstood his intention. I thought he was trying to entrap me so I was digging for information the same way he was. Why is it ok for him and not for me. Why is he allowed to discuss illegal activities without retort. I have done nothing wrong and have co operated completely with your requests. Or did I miss something? You wanted me to disclose personal information which I did. You wanted me to tone things down, I did. You suggested I wait until you can get more information, I did.

Again there is more than 1 day's worth of conversations. Ron told my wife that she was being recorded so she assumed she was. Guilt has been assumed and I have to prove I am innocent. This is not right. Like I said I could say I am the King of Siam, that doesn't mean I am. Where is the proof? C'mon Bryan I was playing along with him to get information. I have been on hold for a month now when all I did deposit and play. You have been critical of me from the get go. Why? Bryan for the last time I didn't break any terms and conditions. Why are you so convinced otherwise. There is no proof. Why don't you point out some of the Casino's mistakes. I have already said that I might have misunderstood the intentions of the operator. Why does this not count. You haven't asked for input from my wife yet she was there listening. I don't appreciate your once again implying that I have been less than truthful with you. WTF.! I only posted what I believed to be the truth at that time.

So, is this your final say? I am just SOL? No proof necessary? I didn't cheat Bryan and the money is rightfully mine and my family's. Remember that this money belongs to my wife and children too. If you honestly believe I intentionally used this Forum inappropriately, I apologize, that was not my intent. My intent was to get help and to let the public know that I am being stiffed. I still am.

I have to take my daughter to school now. I will be back about 9:00 am est.

Also is should be noted that the conversation that Bryan is referring to contains me clearly stating out of frustration "ok, whatever, I'll play it your way". What do you think I meant by that? I have also stated privately (until now) that I am more than willing to take a Polygraph exam by a mutually recognized authority. No one has taken me up on the offer!
 
You don't know me and I don't know you.

But you don't seem to understand common sense. And you obviously know that polygraphs are not accepted as evidence in court.

I've been in this business long enough to know the system better than most - and I don't buy the excuse that the casino is giving you - at least not yet - but you certainly have a most nutty way of trying to claim what you believe is yours - and thumbing your noses at everyone else at the same time.

I have never seen anyone do so much to damage his own case as you have - and especially not for an amount so large.

There ARE people trying to get to the bottom of this behind the scenes - but you seem intent on doing as much damage as you possibly can.

So if you sink your own ship, don't blame anyone else. But I stand by my comments.
 
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