RTG's Caribbean 21 lie

[Pirateofc21]

Not that I doubt your veracity. But it's 4:30 PM on Friday here in California and I've checked all my mail boxes and there's nothing in any of those mailboxes that could be remotely construed as having coming from you.

Lastly, I'm more than willing to make the connection for you but it has't to be with the understanding that you've made your last post on any forum incident to this matter. The attorney that I'll put you in contact with is nothing short of a HEAT LITIGATOR, he does not play games and he does run the show.

Email me if you like, but make sure you understand full well what I'm saying here. Have a good one.

Cipher

I just e-mailed you again. Thanks.

 

[dirk_dangerous]

1. Hampton is part of that small %, no?

2.As tactless as that might have been it does not make me a cheater.

3.I have paid dearly for that mistake.

4.What else can I do?

1. I doubt Hampton is part of that small %. I doubt that any RTG casino is. 1.3 million is a big win for many land based casinos, let alone an online casino.

2. I agree, but you won big, and at online casinos that's enough. Look it doesn't matter if you cheated or not. You crossed the casino's pain threshold, it's just that simple. Then you rubbed the casino's face in it.

3. Yes, you have paid, and you will pay more. You will never receive the full amount of your win. It's too big and they simply won't pay it.

4. The best thing you could have done and may still be able to do is to negotiate a settlement, learn from your mistake and move on.

Look, Im not trying to give you a hard time. Im just trying to convey the realities of the online casino business. Its a downright nasty business. The rules of polite society just dont apply. The casino holds the purse string and there is nothing, I repeat nothing, to stop them from not paying. You can cry, shout, kick and scream about the injustice of it all, but it will do no good. Youre knee deep in the Twilight Zone my friend, and you are just now starting to realize it.

Its not fair, but it is the reality.

 

[Pirateofc21]

1. I doubt Hampton is part of that small %. I doubt that any RTG casino is. 1.3 million is a big win for many land based casinos, let alone an online casino.

2. I agree, but you won big, and at online casinos that's enough. Look it doesn't matter if you cheated or not. You crossed the casino's pain threshold, it's just that simple. Then you rubbed the casino's face in it.

3. Yes, you have paid, and you will pay more. You will never receive the full amount of your win. It's too big and they simply won't pay it.

4. The best thing you could have done and may still be able to do is to negotiate a settlement, learn from your mistake and move on.

Look, Im not trying to give you a hard time. Im just trying to convey the realities of the online casino business. Its a downright nasty business. The rules of polite society just dont apply. The casino holds the purse string and there is nothing, I repeat nothing, to stop them from not paying. You can cry, shout, kick and scream about the injustice of it all, but it will do no good. Youre knee deep in the Twilight Zone my friend, and you are just now starting to realize it.

Its not fair, but it is the reality.

Negotiate with who?

 

[gamblinboi]

Negotiate with who?

crikey yer getting to be mighty stupid pirate. why don't you shutup already and take cipher's (and everyone elses) words of advice. Contact the litigator and SHUT UP already. This is for your OWN good..!!

 

[cipher]

I just e-mailed you again. Thanks.

Well it's now 7:45AM (PST) on Saturday and still no email from the "PIRATE".

Given the fact that your posts are consistently running (3) hours ahead of mine I'm going to make the huge assumption that you're probably located somewhere on the East Coast.

I've received email from as far away as Toronto, Chicago, New York, New Jersey and even Singapore but still nothing from the "PIRATE". Why do you suppose that is "PIRATE"?

I'm sorry PIRATE, there's no doubt in my mind that you need help and I really hope you get help, but I don't play these kind of games. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[Pirateofc21]

Well it's now 7:45AM (PST) on Saturday and still no email from the "PIRATE".

Given the fact that your posts are consistently running (3) hours ahead of mine I'm going to make the huge assumption that you're probably located somewhere on the East Coast.

I've received email from as far away as Toronto, Chicago, New York, New Jersey and even Singapore but still nothing from the "PIRATE". Why do you suppose that is "PIRATE"?

I'm sorry PIRATE, there's no doubt in my mind that you need help and I really hope you get help, but I don't play these kind of games. Have a good one.

Cipher

I have been using the e-mail button in the forum. Obviously it doesn't work. I am trying to get ahold of you and I wouldn't know the button doesn't work until you say something. How else can I get in contact with you? Check your private messages.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Well it's now 7:45AM (PST) on Saturday and still no email from the "PIRATE".

Given the fact that your posts are consistently running (3) hours ahead of mine I'm going to make the huge assumption that you're probably located somewhere on the East Coast.

I've received email from as far away as Toronto, Chicago, New York, New Jersey and even Singapore but still nothing from the "PIRATE". Why do you suppose that is "PIRATE"?

I'm sorry PIRATE, there's no doubt in my mind that you need help and I really hope you get help, but I don't play these kind of games. Have a good one.

Cipher

I'm not playing games I am using the e-mail button here in the Forum. It is obviously not working. How else can I contact you? Can you consider this my request for the contact info you spoke of? Just e-mail me or send it to Bryan and he could forward it. Also check your private messages.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Not that I doubt your veracity. But it's 4:30 PM on Friday here in California and I've checked all my mail boxes and there's nothing in any of those mailboxes that could be remotely construed as having coming from you.

Lastly, I'm more than willing to make the connection for you but it has't to be with the understanding that you've made your last post on any forum incident to this matter. The attorney that I'll put you in contact with is nothing short of a HEAT LITIGATOR, he does not play games and he does run the show.

Email me if you like, but make sure you understand full well what I'm saying here. Have a good one.

Cipher

I don't know your e-mail address and the button in the forum doesn't seem to be working.

I understand full well what is required of me. Would you please e-mail me the contact info or send it to Bryan and he could forward it to me.

Thanks, PirateofC21.

 

[dominique]

Pirate - what the hell are you doing calling yourself the pirate of cb21 and then be yapping about searching for missing ports?

I'm no RTG Shill and they suck and others won decent money on the game to it seems but you sir have well and truly put your foot in it.

Wrong Fuxxing move - Jeezuz have you annoyed me - 1.3 mill and you toss it away with trash talk?

Arrgh man I will never forget you sir.

I just came back from a lengthy time abroad - and look what I found going on.

Unbelievable.

I read this whole thing from beginning to end.

Pirate, you are really an annoying person. I don't know whether you have a right to any winnings or not, I only know what I read here, which is obviously not a lot of information. Just a lot of moaning, accusations, insults, threats, complaints, whining, whimpering and bullying. You run the gambit.

You have had all kinds of well meaning people trying to help - some you have attacked as thanks, the rest you ignore.

No one can help you.

Unbelievable.

 

[Pirateofc21]

I just came back from a lengthy time abroad - and look what I found going on.

Unbelievable.

I read this whole thing from beginning to end.

Pirate, you are really an annoying person. I don't know whether you have a right to any winnings or not, I only know what I read here, which is obviously not a lot of information. Just a lot of moaning, accusations, insults, threats, complaints, whining, whimpering and bullying. You run the gambit.

You have had all kinds of well meaning people trying to help - some you have attacked as thanks, the rest you ignore.

No one can help you.

Unbelievable.

I haven't ignored anyone and nobody told me of anyone other than Bryan helping until recently. How was I supposed to know. Oh that's right, I'm Kreskin the magician. I forgot I can read peoples minds.
Youy are nuts. I haven't attacked or ignored anybody. I came to this Forum to get help and to let others know what was going on so they could avoid my mistakes, not to be everybody's kicking post. Do you know me or something that you can just insult me? I have been insulted repeatedly. Why? Is it really that funny? But if nothing else I am glad I have been so F***ing entertaining to you all.

 

[amandajm]

1.3 million is such a massive amount of money to lose out on and i am sure the pirate is more annoyed with himself than I could ever be.

I have no intention of calling the guy names.

Seriously Pirate/Brian - get some professional help onside guy that will talk for you. Do It..

 

[caruso]

Pirate - I suggest you ignore the malicious attacker - she wasn't acting with your interests at heart, quite the opposite. Don't be provoked into making things worse for yourself. There are people out there would like to see you cheated of your winnings.

I can Email you some possible contact info for Cipher - if that's OK with him, of course. Maybe your communications are somehow getting lost on the cyber highway. Send me a PM with your Email address and I'll get on it.

 

[caruso]

My guess is the Email function isn't working. Either PM Cipher your Email address directly, or PM me with it and I'll pass it on.

 

[cipher]

My guess is the Email function isn't working. Either PM Cipher your Email address directly, or PM me with it and I'll pass it on.

How are you doing CARUSO, I emailed PIRATE yesterday through the site and when I read the email that Pirate posted incident to some sort of malfunction with the email system I in-turn emailed Bryan to see if there was in fact any problems with the email system. He (Bryan) in-turn sent me back an email this morning saying that there was not a problem with the email system.

The long and short of this situation is the fact that this FIASCO is getting much too complicated when it really does not need to.

Pirate I want you to send an email to me at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

including an email address where you can be contacted. I won't be able to respond to that email this evening as I've already got a full slate but I will contact you in the AM, IF YOUR EMAIL IS THERE.

CIPHER

 

[Casinomeister]

My guess is the Email function isn't working. Either PM Cipher your Email address directly, or PM me with it and I'll pass it on.

It works fine. You can even test it by using it to email yourself. You need to ensure that you have the correct email address listed in your user profile, but checking Cipher's, he has listed the same email address that has been on file for some time.

So the email function works.

Now, back to this mess. I've been involved with this situation form the git-go. From when p21 began emailing me letting me know that he was making some big wins at some RTG sites -- up to now.

As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with the game, and I believe it should be coming back on line soon. We have a player who has won A LOT of money, and presently has all of his accounts locked. I'm still working on trying to get answers on why these aren't opened. All but Hamptons...

The situation in a nutshell. The player emails me stating that he is winning a lot of money at Carib21, he is worried that some casinos might not payout because of past reputations. He then contacts me in a panic because the game is down, no RTG site has it. I check into it myself and concur - yes, the game has been pulled. I contact RTG wondering what's up, and yes, they had pulled the game to ensure that everything is functioning normally. They have been watching his wins and wnat to ensure that everything is on the level. This software verification goes on for about two weeks or so, meanwhile the player is emailing often -- wondering what the status is; he wants to play again.

I tell him to just chill out. If he had won this money fair and square, he would have nothing to worry about.

After a couple of weeks, I'm told the game seems to be fine. After the player asks me about - I tell him so, congratulating him, and then he starts making his first "cryptic" posts.

Just about everyone involved flips out when they read what he posted. Admit it, these posts are not normal. Why the allusions? Why not a "lucky winner" post? The game was already suspect, and now the player is.

Let's not forget the amount of money that is involved here. We have tens of thousands of dollars won at a number of casinos besides Hamptons at this point. So game is pulled and examined again.

Bear in mind, this is from what I know. I am not aware of what Hampton casino is doing at this point.

Then from the week of January 30th, we have the recorded phone conversation(s). Both the casino operator and the player recorded their phone conversations. The player admitted to the operator that he used a robot. This is cut and dry with no misunderstanding. The player admitted it, and he went into certain details on making a negotiation for the software. This conversation occured while I was at the ICE and right before he started this thread. When he apparently reneged on the agreement he began this thread, which has been the most viewed thread in the history of Casinomeister.

He now denies using a robot, and states that he was "playing" the operator. In my opinion, this has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, "playing" a casino operator when there is 1.3 million at stake. But this is water under the bridge. What was said, was said.

I have read what has been posted here. I had a slew of private emails as well. I have had copies of phone conversations forwarded to me. I have spoken to the operator and to the player over the phone, and I've talked to RTG in depth about this, and most of us all agree that this is one big mess.

I wish the player would have kept his mouth shut. He would be a much happier and richer person right now. As you can tell, the player has a personality that seems to strive for attention.

I have my gut feelings on what is going on here, but gut feelings aren't enough because of the sum(s) of money involved. In my viewpoint there is simply not enough evidence from either side to come to a fair, objective and useful
conclusion.

I suggest that both parties talk to each other off the record to arrive at a compromise with a non-disclosure agreement. This would probably be the best route to take. But I honestly feel that P21 may have burned far too many bridges for this to happen. But let us hope this is not the case. I wish him luck.

Good luck!

 

[linda7]

Bryan I am confused. Were you not the person who said ALL RTG casinos were crooked, no one should play at their sites and that you would NEVER involve yourself with RTG again? Therefore, with all due respect, why are you suddenly siding with these thieves? I am interested to know what caused you to change your opinion of this group.

Linda7

 

[dominique]

Pirate - I suggest you ignore the malicious attacker - she wasn't acting with your interests at heart, quite the opposite. Don't be provoked into making things worse for yourself. There are people out there would like to see you cheated of your winnings.

I can Email you some possible contact info for Cipher - if that's OK with him, of course. Maybe your communications are somehow getting lost on the cyber highway. Send me a PM with your Email address and I'll get on it.

I did not attack him - I called him annoying.

He attacked Bryan - right here in his own forum, for trying to mediate. That is actually a lot more than just annoying.

Just about everyone has told him to chill and be quiet and work with the people offering help. This is not happening, and he is losing more of his chance to collect with every post he makes. Pointing that out is not malicious, it does have his best interest at heart.

Encouraging him to continue to post equals encouraging him to make sure the case is lost for good.

 

[Casinomeister]

Bryan I am confused. Were you not the person who said ALL RTG casinos were crooked, no one should play at their sites and that you would NEVER involve yourself with RTG again? Therefore, with all due respect, why are you suddenly siding with these thieves? I am interested to know what caused you to change your opinion of this group.

Linda7

Hi Linda,

This couldn't be further than the truth. I never said that ALL RTG casinos were crooked. I have suggested on three occassions that RTG casinos should be boycotted; and this turned out to be uneccessary because the casino operators in question responded and took care of the situation (s).

In the past, I have been critical on how the software provider has handled some of their licensees, but you'll have to admit over the past two years it has been improving. All lot of this has to do with a number of the negiations I've been involved with in the past.

There is no change of stance on my part. I have always been fair. The bottom line is to provide a safe playing environment for the player. That's it.

This situation is not a case of RTG versus a player, but the operator versus the player. The player admitted breaking the casino's posted terms and conditions, but now recants his story.

 

[jetset]

I don't personally believe the 'Meister is siding with RTG, or anyone else here.

After reading Linda"s post I again examined Bryan's post and it seems to me he is doing his damnedest to be even-handed on this complicated matter where there has been what can only be described as pretty strange behaviour on both sides.

Hampton's apparent refusal to accept the first RTG all-clear on the Caribbean21 game (and does that extend now to the second inspection which has presumably also not thrown up evidence of crooked play) Their initial attempt to impose a retroactive WT requirement, and then the insistence on paying out a mere $4K a week despite claiming a healthy financial status.

Then, the payouts having commenced the unnecessary cryptic and other posts from Pirate and his unfortunate way of looking at things didn't help. And the coup de grace is perhaps Hampton's insistence on pursuing the matter in a mutually-recorded private phone call where none of us know what was said other than guys like Bryan who have actually listened to the whole thing.

Pirate claims misinterpretation, "playing" the operator or statements taken out of context, yet Bryan as an independent observer listened to the entire exchange from both parties and says there is no doubt that he admitted to using a bot in direct contravention to the T&Cs at Hampton. Did he use one? Was he really "playing" the operator? By confessing? Why would he do that? Was he just an extraordinarily lucky player using the Wizard's bs and a few hunches? Who knows - it's his (recorded) word against Hampton's (recorded) word and neither of them told the other they were recording the discussion.

There are not too many people who doubt Bryan's personal integrity - his history and mediation credentials are pretty good imo - and we have not seen evidence from Hamptons that they can prove robot play by Pirate. Nor have we seen reasonable explanations from Pirate regarding his behaviour and claimed admissions. In short, we haven't seen any of the evidence - either way.

It seems to me that the logical way to resolve this once and for all would be for Hamptons as the accuser to show their factual proof that Pirate has been using a bot, thus disqualifying his winnings in terms of their T&C. Something preferably in addition to a claimed confession which is disputed and which was apparently made under contentious circumstances.

But that is a decision that is beyond the remit of the mediator.

From a mediation viewpoint it is presently a stand-off, apparently with at least some critical evidence withheld and in these circumstances a mediator can only do so much before he has to advise the parties involved to negotiate a compromise or go the more acrimonious and expensive route of engaging litigators and seeking judgement based on fully presented facts and evidence.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Pirate - I suggest you ignore the malicious attacker - she wasn't acting with your interests at heart, quite the opposite. Don't be provoked into making things worse for yourself. There are people out there would like to see you cheated of your winnings.

I can Email you some possible contact info for Cipher - if that's OK with him, of course. Maybe your communications are somehow getting lost on the cyber highway. Send me a PM with your Email address and I'll get on it.

check yourt PM's or send it to Bryan. He can forward it to me. Thanks.

 

[Pirateofc21]

It works fine. You can even test it by using it to email yourself. You need to ensure that you have the correct email address listed in your user profile, but checking Cipher's, he has listed the same email address that has been on file for some time.

So the email function works.

Now, back to this mess. I've been involved with this situation form the git-go. From when p21 began emailing me letting me know that he was making some big wins at some RTG sites -- up to now.

As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with the game, and I believe it should be coming back on line soon. We have a player who has won A LOT of money, and presently has all of his accounts locked. I'm still working on trying to get answers on why these aren't opened. All but Hamptons...

The situation in a nutshell. The player emails me stating that he is winning a lot of money at Carib21, he is worried that some casinos might not payout because of past reputations. He then contacts me in a panic because the game is down, no RTG site has it. I check into it myself and concur - yes, the game has been pulled. I contact RTG wondering what's up, and yes, they had pulled the game to ensure that everything is functioning normally. They have been watching his wins and wnat to ensure that everything is on the level. This software verification goes on for about two weeks or so, meanwhile the player is emailing often -- wondering what the status is; he wants to play again.

I tell him to just chill out. If he had won this money fair and square, he would have nothing to worry about.

After a couple of weeks, I'm told the game seems to be fine. After the player asks me about - I tell him so, congratulating him, and then he starts making his first "cryptic" posts.

Just about everyone involved flips out when they read what he posted. Admit it, these posts are not normal. Why the allusions? Why not a "lucky winner" post? The game was already suspect, and now the player is.

Let's not forget the amount of money that is involved here. We have tens of thousands of dollars won at a number of casinos besides Hamptons at this point. So game is pulled and examined again.

Bear in mind, this is from what I know. I am not aware of what Hampton casino is doing at this point.

Then from the week of January 30th, we have the recorded phone conversation(s). Both the casino operator and the player recorded their phone conversations. The player admitted to the operator that he used a robot. This is cut and dry with no misunderstanding. The player admitted it, and he went into certain details on making a negotiation for the software. This conversation occured while I was at the ICE and right before he started this thread. When he apparently reneged on the agreement he began this thread, which has been the most viewed thread in the history of Casinomeister.

He now denies using a robot, and states that he was "playing" the operator. In my opinion, this has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, "playing" a casino operator when there is 1.3 million at stake. But this is water under the bridge. What was said, was said.

I have read what has been posted here. I had a slew of private emails as well. I have had copies of phone conversations forwarded to me. I have spoken to the operator and to the player over the phone, and I've talked to RTG in depth about this, and most of us all agree that this is one big mess.

I wish the player would have kept his mouth shut. He would be a much happier and richer person right now. As you can tell, the player has a personality that seems to strive for attention.

I have my gut feelings on what is going on here, but gut feelings aren't enough because of the sum(s) of money involved. In my viewpoint there is simply not enough evidence from either side to come to a fair, objective and useful
conclusion.

I suggest that both parties talk to each other off the record to arrive at a compromise with a non-disclosure agreement. This would probably be the best route to take. But I honestly feel that P21 may have burned far too many bridges for this to happen. But let us hope this is not the case. I wish him luck.

Good luck!

Just for the record Bryan I had already been told that I wouldn't be getting any more payments. The 1.3 was a done deal. So I am not quite as stupid as you imply.

 

[Casinomeister]

Just for the record Bryan I had already been told that I wouldn't be getting any more payments. The 1.3 was a done deal. So I am not quite as stupid as you imply.

I've just about had it with you. You don't know when to quit, do you?

I will say it again...if you didn't shoot off your big mouth, none of this would have happened. The more you talk and post here, the more I believe that what I heard on the tape was a player fessing up to trying to rip off a casino.

You were told it was a done deal. Yes, because you agreed that you were using a robot, which violates their terms and conditions making your play void! Are you nuts or what?? You even tape recorded the same stupid conversation!

And why in the hell am I still trying to assist you? I'm the one who is nuts! Every minute that I spend dealing with your bullshit is one minute less then I spend with players who deserve assistance.

I would advise you from continuing this avenue of discourse before I give you a 30 day cooling off period from this forum.

 

[spearmaster]

Bryan may have implied it... I stated it outright.

You don't know when to shut up. You risk everything for nothing but a dumb little jab at the casino and the software manufacturer.

You say you will keep quiet and yet you continue to speak out.

In short, you have done a better job of ensuring you get nothing than anyone else possibly could have to damage your case.

 

[caruso]

I just tried to send myself an Email, no luck. Address is correct in profile.

I disagree about cutting any deals: if they can prove he used a bot, all well and good and case closed. If they can't, they pay up. No need for any halfway houses.

Yes, he's been mouthy. Being mouthy does not entitle the casino to void his winnings however. It entitles them and others to be mildly p*ssed off with him, no more.

If being mouthy was an excuse to void legitimate winnings, I'd never have seen a cent out of Angelciti, LOL.

 

[Casinomeister]

If being mouthy was an excuse to void legitimate winnings, I'd never have seen a cent out of Angelciti, LOL.

But if you spoke with Angelciti over the phone, admitted to breaking their terms and conditions by using a robot, and then made a deal to sell your robot software to them, how much $$ do you think you would have gotten?