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Its good that people are voluntering to fight for Ukraine.
Hope that Europe and USA will join soon.
Ukraine Mess
- Thread starter The Dude
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Its good that people are voluntering to fight for Ukraine.
Hope that Europe and USA will join soon.
Can't speak for other countries, but our media is pretty ropey. Of course they don't lie about everything, yet their stories are often debunked or just sensationalized, with inconsistencies galore. They also haven't much impartiality left about most things they report, a la Brexit & co.You guys must have a very strange public media if they are always lying.
Sure, some can be angled, but thats about it.
If its fake news they will be "dumped" pretty quickly.
Youtube stuffs is just not good to watch, unless its music videos.
Sad to see it in this state, and likely why some will seek alternative outlets to get an 'overview' that some MSM omit. Problem with that is, like you say, it's riddled with some rather 'out there' commentators, and so it becomes more difficult to actually get anything that isn't steeped in opinionated rhetoric ?
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The bold part. I was thinking about this earlier. Those weapons in untrained hands are in many cases going to cause a fair bit of self harm (if they arent already sold on the black market, lol), or accidents towards fellow citizens, and very likely also result in a fair amount of friendly fire towards Ukrainian forces. Not to mention that if they don't accidently wound themselves with those guns, that giving untrained civilians the opportunity and encouraging them to fight against fully trained, organized military personnel who have prepped for years is, imo, not far off from handing them a lottery suicide ticket where for the first time in any advertised lottery, the odds are actually in your favour to win the big prize.
It would also create great opportunities to use civilian casualties as propoganda, easily able to frame any civilian deaths on the Russians, Just need to remove the AK before taking the picture.
Sure, it's a 'What if...' but I wonder, if Hussein had done similar in Iraq, offered AK's to any of the untrained locals who were old enough to at least be able to lift an AK with 2 hands. Would the West have ignored such a move, or called him out of him for doing so?
I know where I'd put my money.
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I think they are right, especially if Putin has allegedly taken out all 13 US biolabs now.
If the WEF, NATO and the West all are screaming "Ukraine, human rights" whilst collectively fucking over our human rights for 2 years, I think I will support the opposite of what they say.
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Human rights and 2 years? I guess your talking about Covid?
If it saved lifes to close down and restrict a bit its not a bad thing.
geordiecolin
Sporney eyed parrot faced wazzock
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Go ahead and start a debate for a change JonoCovid thread instead then?
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The trailer for " Four Lions 2"Its good that people are voluntering to fight for Ukraine.
Hope that Europe and USA will join soon.
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No it didnt, it was the most deadly mistake in all of human history, and state murder
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geordiecolin
Sporney eyed parrot faced wazzock
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Totally agree but the sheep do not want to hear it. It has been like psychological and physical warfare
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geordiecolin
Sporney eyed parrot faced wazzock
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Please do not troll others with these unnecessary and insulting comments.
All that you have done is post "this post is shit" and fling insults at me which could be highlighted by your recent history. Why not address my posts and highlight what you have a contention with giving reasoned argument?
Because your incapable or maybe a brain dead media sheep like those who are scared shitless by what you are fed?
Try adult debate for a change
Your attacks have made me belly laugh
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paul7388
Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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It is impossible to debate with you.
You have a very selective way of posting videos then replying to the posts that fit your narrative and ignoring the rest. But thanks for the laugh actually saying you debate like an adult. Would be hysterical but for the fact you obviously believe you do,
As for believing everything In the media. Afraid that us one thing i do not do. Unlike yourself I can normally see what might have truth in it. But instead of seeing something that is happening, accepting it and thinking about it . You have to go and search for anything that goes against it. Watch the video and go wow knew the news was lying.
But agree on one thing. Somethings I see online scare me. Not from the news or other sources. But it scares me that in this day and age we have people that believe anything they find online. People that once they find a site that posts some crackpot theories then take that source as reality and take all their information from there.
But thinking about it. Maybe the fear lies inside yourself. Some people do struggle to cope with reality and need to search for other answers to deny what is really happening and help them cope. So really I should be glad for you that you are sort of seeking online therapy for your worries and for that i applaud you.
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This is going to be my only proper comment on this thread, as arguing politics etc on a forum or social media does not get you anywhere and you are very unlikely to change anyones mind.
I will say I am 110% pro Ukraine and have nothing but admiration for their people and their country and how they are facing head on the barbaric onslaught against them waged by that despot in the Kremlin.
As a massive boxing fan, I am extremely blown away that the likes of the Klitschko brothers, current IBF, WBA, WBO Heavyweight Champ Oleksander 'I am feel' Usyk and his best friend the current pound for pound great Lomachenko, have all returned to fight for their country.
I doubt very much the likes of Gary Lineker et al would do that, if it was the UK being attacked.
Anyhow, I note the Russian boxer Povetkin has come out in support of Putin and his evil invasion. I just hope he bumps into Wlad again, as clearly he didn't knock enough %$%^$ out of him the last time they fought.
I will say I am 110% pro Ukraine and have nothing but admiration for their people and their country and how they are facing head on the barbaric onslaught against them waged by that despot in the Kremlin.
As a massive boxing fan, I am extremely blown away that the likes of the Klitschko brothers, current IBF, WBA, WBO Heavyweight Champ Oleksander 'I am feel' Usyk and his best friend the current pound for pound great Lomachenko, have all returned to fight for their country.
I doubt very much the likes of Gary Lineker et al would do that, if it was the UK being attacked.
Anyhow, I note the Russian boxer Povetkin has come out in support of Putin and his evil invasion. I just hope he bumps into Wlad again, as clearly he didn't knock enough %$%^$ out of him the last time they fought.
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Ouchy! You hurt my feels!
The proof is all there on the internet and in the past I have provided the receipts. Sorry I said sumin bad about your Joe
And I don't seen to wade through more trollish posts @geordiecolin - you need to take a break from this thread until you can post something other than conspiracy theory garbage while attacking your fellow members with these sort of comments.I was posting on the subject of Ukraine until I was so rudely sidetracked by another over emotional poster like yourself. Stick your fingers in your ears and do not forget your mask the next time you dare leave the house
This is reality for a lot of members here who are in Eastern Europe to include Russian and Ukraine. I'm removing your ability to post in this thread for 7 days.
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And just a warning to others who feel it's ok to post troll comments. Don't do it.
And knock off the conspiracy theory bullshit. Thank you.
And knock off the conspiracy theory bullshit. Thank you.
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Far too busy and not to mention tired for any of that malarky mate.
Debating on here is like smashing your own head up the hardest brick wall you can find!
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The Putin apologists and conspiracy theorists need to learn from history. It seems too many these days get their news from reading Twitter threads especially those filled with Russian propaganda and misinformation. I'm constantly surprised by how dumb and gullible many people are.
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Not saying to trust Putin because anyone that goes into war with another nation is not a good person but none of our leaders are saints either, always look at all the information out there from all sides and try and keep an open mind because both sides WEST/EAST will try and put their influence on people.
SCOMO just announced 100 million aide to a war while our own nation (Australia) is screwed as is due to COVID and lots of other factors.
They can keep the global military money machine going but forget about their own citizens.
No doubt China will be jumping into Taiwan soon which is not at all good (they have the most advanced chip company TSMC on the planet so their technological leap will be huge if they take it).
As much as people critisize Trump he was one leader that the Globalists originally thought they could keep in their back pocket but he was a true Patriot and not a globalist who could not be bought (he already had all the money his family would ever need) and was a massive dent in their globalist plans just like Putin is. Why were there no conflicts and issues with Russia and even North Korea while Trump was in power ?
All I can say is god help us all with the state of affairs this whole world is in with these puppet leaders.
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Trump a patriot?
No, dont think so.
He has only ever cared about filling his own pockets.
I dont think he even is so rich as he wants people to think.
Trump =
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Funny, because many of the conspiracy theorists, even after history proving conspiracy facts, are constantly surprised at how dumb and gullible many people are also
I don't think shutting down open conversation about it solves anything. Maybe I missed something but didn't see Geordie attacking anyone on a personal level. Yes, some of the content may be out there but you don't have to read it, you don't have to react to it, you don't have to believe it, and I don't see why it should be censored because it's a difference of opinion.
Politely pointing out that the content is way off the mark, and why, should be enough.
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@bamberfishcake I am not shutting down an open conversation - in fact I am supporting it. I am dealing with the insulting comments folks are making to one another - this time Geordiecolin was reprimanded. We can discuss anything and everything until the cows come home, but his comments are out of line and it keeps folks from participating.
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Seems like geordiecolins thinks this is funny:
Adios Amigo - I am done with this disrespectful troll.
Adios Amigo - I am done with this disrespectful troll.
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I mean no harm, and laughing at things doesn't help @geordiecolin , tsk, tsk
I appreciate you taking the personal abuse out of the thread @Casinomeister
Interesting mention of some of the Russian oligarchs in this and a few questions as to why some seem favoured to others.
God bless Ukraine, I wonder how much either side truly wants what's best for their people. That doesn't mean I condone Putin's move, its a disgusting sacrifice of lives to further his agenda.
I appreciate you taking the personal abuse out of the thread @Casinomeister
Interesting mention of some of the Russian oligarchs in this and a few questions as to why some seem favoured to others.
God bless Ukraine, I wonder how much either side truly wants what's best for their people. That doesn't mean I condone Putin's move, its a disgusting sacrifice of lives to further his agenda.
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I think a permanent ban is too harsh over something that in the end boils down to difference of opinions more or less.
I dont see eye to eye with Geordie on most topics, but i think it would be a shame to ban one of the more active posters on the forum over this.
As far as insulting comments go, people get away with alot worse without getting a warning.
And since the judge is supposed to be impartial:
That is not exclusive to Governments. Take the Company that I work for. At the same time as announcing some 2,000 redudancies they made a £1.5m donation to support the humanitarian effort that is needed in Ukraine. Defies belief for those that are set to lose their jobs though from those that are not effected point of view the correct thing to do.
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The problem is - when do you say enough is enough? The guy had plenty of chances to be cool. Warned many times - he has 15 infractions/warnings over the past three years mostly for troll posts, insulting folks, and disrespecting the moderators and admins. He just refuses to adhere to the rules that most all of us abide by without a second thought.
This is a serious thread. We have forum members in the Ukraine, in Russia, in Belarus, and in Eastern Europe, and this is not the time or place to belittle your fellow members with these aggravating and insulting comments. Some forums welcome that behaviour. This is not one of them.
No ban is permanent (in most cases). Sometimes all it takes is an acknowledgement that you were wrong, an apology, and a promise to behave.
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It's so sad and it's wearing me down. I'm too afraid to even click to a news site now as I'm finding the atrocities too much to bear.
The madness has to end soon, surely.
The madness has to end soon, surely.
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According to tucker carlson's show yesterday there are quite a few voices in and around washington now calling for US intervention, enforcing a no fly zone or destroying that convoy of infantry trucks, which really would be raising the stakes.
Not being exposed to the US media coverage etc, it's difficult to know whether these suggestions are gaining traction with decision makers. Apparently polls carried out by cnn suggest the public do not support direct military involvement, but even running such a poll as a serious proposition is a bit concerning.
Not being exposed to the US media coverage etc, it's difficult to know whether these suggestions are gaining traction with decision makers. Apparently polls carried out by cnn suggest the public do not support direct military involvement, but even running such a poll as a serious proposition is a bit concerning.
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I'm.........fully owning my liberallness...left...not far left
I'm not always breaking
However I'm bending
I will even throw this out there >
I barely....rarely....agree with (insert member/leader here)...BUT...I respect his/their views :
Why?
Cant see eye to eye. But he/they is polite. kind and shares his views. I JUST cant agree. But..I CAN agree to disagree )
________________________
Me, personally,
I'm trying....TRYING....to see sides but......autocracy....but the world has moved forward to democracy
`
I'm not always breaking
However I'm bending
I will even throw this out there >
I barely....rarely....agree with (insert member/leader here)...BUT...I respect his/their views :
Why?
Cant see eye to eye. But he/they is polite. kind and shares his views. I JUST cant agree. But..I CAN agree to disagree )
________________________
Me, personally,
I'm trying....TRYING....to see sides but......autocracy....but the world has moved forward to democracy
`
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Tyrants.....dictators.....havent a place in a unified planet
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Russia had a couple planes (4) that crossed over into Swedish airspace earlier today.
Was just for a short while, over sea (baltic sea) east of Gotland.
Some are saying it could have been done by accident, meaning that they flew to close to us as to avoid accidentally ending up in in the airspace of a NATO member country, because that would probably not end up with just pictures of the planes.
But Ministry of defence seem pretty sure its Russias way of saying: 'we see you sending aid/weapons to Ukraine'
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These people are idiots and are just trying to produce click bait. There cannot be a no-fly zone since the only way to enforce this is by shooting down Russian aircraft. In case people have forgotten, Russia is a nuclear super power and will use nukes to defeat their enemies - which means NATO - which means all of us.
Unfortunately all we can do is sit here and watch this unfold and hope for a collapse of the morale of their military. That is the key right there. The Russian army is poorly trained and equipped. I have watched their infantry tactics and am gobsmacked at the carelessness and how poorly trained they are. Their infantry tatics remind me of something you'd see in a bad WWII film: crowding around tanks and armored vehicles, clustered together in open areas, no bounding overwatch in zones where enemy contact is expected, etc.
But what do you expect from a conscription army that lacks an NCO corps? And these poor troops don't want to be there. It's just a matter of time when we will begin to see mutinous activities. No beans, no bullets, no fuel, no water = no will to fight.
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Gods...I do..DO.....wish I could make a clear and concise post....but...but all I can do, now, is just wish.........w/e you happen to believe, w/e side, w/e opinions
Jeebuz, wish for a democracy v an autocracy.....wish for humanity, wish for hope....wish for well-being
Christ - or your chosen gods(s)...wish we are/can be .....JUST FUCKING BETTER
Jeebuz, wish for a democracy v an autocracy.....wish for humanity, wish for hope....wish for well-being
Christ - or your chosen gods(s)...wish we are/can be .....JUST FUCKING BETTER
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I hope so, but even just looking now I can find a recent yahoo news article quoting 'former british army chief' General Sir Richard Barrons:
"However, asked on BBC’s Newsnight programme on Monday about the potential enforcement of a no-fly zone, Sir Richard said: “The choice I think we’re going to have to make, if the Russian military doesn’t hold back, is we can either watch the slaughter of tens of thousands of Ukrainian citizens, or we’re going to have to find ways to do something about it that are more urgent and decisive than sanctions.
“I think this pressure will come, this debate will come this week if the Russian army unleashes its firepower on the civilian population.”
He added: “It does mean war with Russia [but]... we might assert that this is war with Russia in Ukraine only.
Sir Richard said: “By Wednesday, Russian heavy artillery will be around these Ukrainian cities, and they may be firing indiscriminately and destroying large chunks of a city and killing civilians.
“One of the issues for about Thursday or Friday of this week is how does public opinion in the UK and other countries react to seeing people who look and live like us being slaughtered.
“At that stage, I think there’ll be a different conversation led by public opinion about the application of Nato military, power perhaps through the sky and definitely against heavy weapons.”
-------
Edit: I think this at least means it has been discussed at the top levels as a possibility, and the air force chiefs asked to prepare a report/plans, hence also Putin's warning of hitherto unexperienced consequences, most likely a bluff but carries huge risks to call it.
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If it wasn't for Russia's nukes I would support Nato getting involved as it would easily win. A desperate Putin backed into a corner with a finger on the nuke trigger is not worth the risk. His age and mental stability is a concern.
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Reading the bbc live news feed today, there are definite intimations and references to a no fly zone, and that further actions than sanctions are required to save civilian life.
I think the coverage has been building up to this, to 'prime' the public for direct intervention, whether the whole of europe/nato is onboard is another question.
I think the coverage has been building up to this, to 'prime' the public for direct intervention, whether the whole of europe/nato is onboard is another question.
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I'm surprised that there hasn't been a 'chicken shoot' yet by Ukraine's planes on that convoy, like the allies did on Saddam's in Iraq, all that firepower out in the open on a highway route, a sitting duck. Hit the near end near Kiev, the far end near Belarus to block off retreat and then the middle? It may be stuck there as a diversion to encourage Ukraine to move forces from the centre and east methinks.
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Any hesitation towards retaliation does not surprise me. If they attack the convoy, the gloves are off and both sides move on to the next phase of their attacks.
The idea of a war between NATO and Russia limited only to the battleground of Ukraine seems preposterous to me, and one that doesn't look positive for Ukraine. Hard to comprehend a war between two opposing forces not reaching either's home soil. I'm no expert, but I don't recall a war being fought that way when the two opposing forces have the capacity to hit each other.
I hope a diplomatic solution is found and quickly.
The idea of a war between NATO and Russia limited only to the battleground of Ukraine seems preposterous to me, and one that doesn't look positive for Ukraine. Hard to comprehend a war between two opposing forces not reaching either's home soil. I'm no expert, but I don't recall a war being fought that way when the two opposing forces have the capacity to hit each other.
I hope a diplomatic solution is found and quickly.
wyder33
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A diplomatic solution with Putin is not an option. He just makes no concessions. The second issue is with what law conditions if he is an aggressor? In my opinion, we are just witnessing the beginning of the 3rd World War. Remember the beginning of the Second World War, then no one expected such a big conflict. Unfortunately, history repeats itself. The only solution to this situation is somewhere in Russia. So the Russian people have to stand up or someone from Putin's close circle has to put some order in order. If this does not happen, Russia will find itself in such an economic situation that Putin will have nothing to lose, he will not withdraw now. He is not a man ready to make concessions, he has a goal to which he is striving at any cost.
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TBH, I dont foresee a WW3 - the two major players I'd possibly worry of, Putin, an autocrat, and Trump a wish-I-were autocrat, are far, far too narcissistic and self-absorbed to put themselves in the ground as wanna be saviours of the human race
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He is completely unstable and needs to be removed from this planet immediately.
A fucking psychopath. A vile, disgusting excuse of a human.
wyder33
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Well, the point is that Putin is an autocrat, if the sanks that the rest of the world will impose on Russia will cause her to collapse in the economy, it will be an ideal situation for an autocrat to say - look my citizens how bad this world is, I meant well and they punished you, you Russians. You have to oppose this evil ... I can imagine such words falling from Putin's lips. This man is made to lie and manipulate. More than one president who talked to him has found out about it. I will quote the words of the President of the Republic of Poland, Lech Kaczyński, which he spoke in Georgia and in two years he died in Smolensk - "We know very well that today Georgia, tomorrow Ukraine, the day after tomorrow the Baltic States, and then maybe it's time for my country, for Poland."
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Why having nukes is essential, even N Korea understand that
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Nukes are essential when everyone has nukes
Nukes are redundant if noone has any
i know we cant turn back the clock, but wish we could
Nukes are redundant if noone has any
i know we cant turn back the clock, but wish we could
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I think our acceptance is part of the problem - the attitude of 'well, we need nukes to defend ourselves from other countries with nukes'. We can turn back the clock effectively by abandoning and decommissioning all Nuclear weapons.
Having a weapon that is capable of devastating and destroying millions of lives is unnecessary and ridiculously out of proportion with the need to defend your country. Hiroshima should have taught the world all it needs to know about the usefulness of weapons of mass destruction.
It requires collaboration from the whole planet. We too often think we are part of single countries and individual communities and forget we are all together on this big rock.
Only needs one nutter to launch one and then the other nutters launch some back and before you know it you have billions of lives lost and two countries uninhabitable for years. Just their presence alone is scary.
Having a weapon that is capable of devastating and destroying millions of lives is unnecessary and ridiculously out of proportion with the need to defend your country. Hiroshima should have taught the world all it needs to know about the usefulness of weapons of mass destruction.
It requires collaboration from the whole planet. We too often think we are part of single countries and individual communities and forget we are all together on this big rock.
Only needs one nutter to launch one and then the other nutters launch some back and before you know it you have billions of lives lost and two countries uninhabitable for years. Just their presence alone is scary.
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lol
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It's not just two countries either bamber, it's effectively the whole world that would be condemned to a nuclear winter. India and Pakistan are both nuclear powers, if they launched everything they had at each other, with not a single nuke landing anywhere outside those two countries, the rest of the world would still endure a nuclear winter due to all the shit that would be sucked up into the atmosphere.
Have a watch of this if you're so minded.
In other news I watched this a few days ago, one to give you nightmares..... It's a BBC TV film from 1984, but has got a recent remaster and is available from Amazon. It's pretty grim, my conclusion was that in the event of a nuclear war, you really want to die in the initial blasts, you don't want to be around for what's left.
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I remember that film at the time, had a documentary feel to it that gave it added realism and bleakness. Atm the tone I get from some of the press/media is more attempted blasé on this potential outcome, a 'would it be so bad' 'don't worry too much' . The total opposite approach to the 80's message.
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