Guts/Betspin/Rizk and generally the issue with Groups and Operators linked by licence

[mac72]

I've just been reading another thread on ALLBRITISH and a player who could never win because he breached the max bet rule and the readership here seem to be consistent in the view that if he couldn't win he should have his deposit back.

So the situation we have at GUTS is that i breached the max bet rule, their chat then said it was fine and i continued on but given subsequent events is it fair to assume that had i won i would have been paid??? Was i in effect gambling with no chance of winning?
It is obvious to me that the overbet was seen as a serious breach , i emailed tony numerous times on it trying to get to the bottom of it but they wouldn't move from their position.
This was never the purpose of the thread but given what i've read this morning maybe i would be justified in asking for my deposit back. If this post gets 10 "thanks" or more i will ask for it, if not i won't so its down to you guys.

 

[Guts - Yits]

This is a matter we discussed earlier and that was addressed. Hands were held up regarding problems, legit feedback was taken and fed through for development and UX enhancements and and players affected were refunded (one with long delays though, major screw-up on our part)

For now, regarding the abundance of linked sites I suggest dropping a quick line to CS departments, asking them whether you need to be aware of anything of this nature and explaining why you wish to know. Hopefully, they would be able to answer you and assist you accordingly, as they should.

This is most certainly a legitimate concern, and it has been a worthwhile and necessary discussion all around. Although there were troubles associated with the affair, I look back on it as a positive learning experience which served to drive us and casinos in general to improve.

The best of it is Brian it wasn't even supposed to really be about GUTS/BETSPIN/RIZK , it was supposed to be about the abundance of linked sites now and how anyone is supposed to make sense of it all and i was just trying to lay out clearly one issue i had as an example but in the context of the wider issue which i thought would be the focus of the discussion.
There are issues all over the forum re linked properties and its just all becoming too much like hard work trying to decipher who your playing with.

 

[Guts - Yits]

Hi mac82 - to back up Captain Rizk, you are welcome to have an account with Guts too - albeit one restricted from reload bonuses but allowing for free spins eligibility due to the fact that some notes I have dug up from back in the days this happened to you that the decision was also based on apparent links to other accounts to maximise the use of available bonuses.

Now please BEFORE you go ballistic at my statement above let me once again outline - I do not know whether it is accurate or not - I am just stating information that I am receiving. It might well even be inaccurate, as I mentioned was well before my time, on a different gaming platform - I did not make nor assess these decisions.

I have one question please: Did you, or did you not get your bonused deposit refunded by Guts when your account was closed and winnings were confiscated due to breach of terms? That is something tangible I can address and look into with pleasure. I gather more or less that you didn't lose your deposit as such, but in later posts you mention the right for a refund in these scenarios so it has left me wondering.

I ask you to please keep the answer simple, and for the love of God I beg you to calm down somewhat. There are people dying and suffering in this world, people blown to smithereens from Brussels to Mogadishu and Aleppo to Cuidad Juarez. Please maintain some sort of perspective regarding the relative severity of matters being discussed here.

And yes - regarding the legitimacy insinuation - these back and forths and constant posts with various temperament levels are not always fully legitimate requests or inquiries IMO - they may have started that way but degenerated into downright anarchy. Sorry. When I look at your recent post (one of a great many), with your reference to "2 letters from Tony..." (although I get the deeper reference, which i quite dig) I must say that it comes across as somewhat surreal...if you cannot see that then I'm frankly mystified.

I DO respect you, and you can have an account with Guts as stated - but just tone it down, please.

Hope this makes sense.

Respectfully,

Yits

I've just been reading another thread on ALLBRITISH and a player who could never win because he breached the max bet rule and the readership here seem to be consistent in the view that if he couldn't win he should have his deposit back.

So the situation we have at GUTS is that i breached the max bet rule, their chat then said it was fine and i continued on but given subsequent events is it fair to assume that had i won i would have been paid??? Was i in effect gambling with no chance of winning?
It is obvious to me that the overbet was seen as a serious breach , i emailed tony numerous times on it trying to get to the bottom of it but they wouldn't move from their position.
This was never the purpose of the thread but given what i've read this morning maybe i would be justified in asking for my deposit back. If this post gets 10 "thanks" or more i will ask for it, if not i won't so its down to you guys.

 

[mac72]

Hi mac82 - to back up Captain Rizk, you are welcome to have an account with Guts too - albeit one restricted from reload bonuses but allowing for free spins eligibility due to the fact that some notes I have dug up from back in the days this happened to you that the decision was also based on apparent links to other accounts to maximise the use of available bonuses.

Now please BEFORE you go ballistic at my statement above let me once again outline - I do not know whether it is accurate or not - I am just stating information that I am receiving. It might well even be inaccurate, as I mentioned was well before my time, on a different gaming platform - I did not make nor assess these decisions.

I have one question please: Did you, or did you not get your bonused deposit refunded by Guts when your account was closed and winnings were confiscated due to breach of terms? That is something tangible I can address and look into with pleasure. I gather more or less that you didn't lose your deposit as such, but in later posts you mention the right for a refund in these scenarios so it has left me wondering.

I ask you to please keep the answer simple, and for the love of God I beg you to calm down somewhat. There are people dying and suffering in this world, people blown to smithereens from Brussels to Mogadishu and Aleppo to Cuidad Juarez. Please maintain some sort of perspective regarding the relative severity of matters being discussed here.

And yes - regarding the legitimacy insinuation - these back and forths and constant posts with various temperament levels are not always fully legitimate requests or inquiries IMO - they may have started that way but degenerated into downright anarchy. Sorry. When I look at your recent post (one of a great many), with your reference to "2 letters from Tony..." (although I get the deeper reference, which i quite dig) I must say that it comes across as somewhat surreal...if you cannot see that then I'm frankly mystified.

I DO respect you, and you can have an account with Guts as stated - but just tone it down, please.

Hope this makes sense.

Respectfully,

Yits

The only thing i want to say to that is please "provide the links to other accounts to maximise the use of available bonuses". If your saying they are linked to me i give you my authority to publicly post all the data pertaining to them: full name,address,phone numbers,emails the lot.
Your saying your not even sure its right but you feel the need to put it out there and create the assumption of guilt.

edit: Sorry i can't leave it at that and i had to write the above response quickly and then move away from the computer as you could of got the full blown version of this,this is the watered down version now:

DONT YOU DARE try and use the deaths of those poor people today in Brussels or anywhere else for that matter to try and deflect away from the fact you guys made a right fucking balls up a year ago and compounded it lately through RIZK.
DONT lecture someone who spent the first 25years of his life living in a conflict zone and burying friends and family members regularly on getting perspective on anything.I know all about the killin and the dyin and it has nothing to do with this discussion.

You have come back asking questions of me that have already been answered in the thread, you have negated to answer questions that were put directly to you and then you come with this passive agressive bullshit of "hey i got passed some info you may be a bonus abuser , not sure just saying!" . So you would have me and the readership believe that you carry out some sort of half baked analysis of people you suspect are trying to have you over but don't really keep any proper records and if such people turn up a year or so later at another brand you are involved with , hey why not let them play now.Pull the other one Yits it has bells on.And i'm done now i'm starting to get worked up again

 

[Adam Randall]

Holy shit, this thread was good reading.

It makes me realise how far up the backside of the casinos many here are.

This dude came in with a completely normal concern, was polite & respectful. I do not know anyone on this thread in the least so am impartial here. He was needled with underhanded and subtle digs to get a rise out of him all the way along from the start to the end and he kept his cool better than I would have.

This should be used as an example of exactly how customer service should not be handled, almost takes my breath away.

The guy gives bullet proof evidence that he did everything right, was told by the casino chat it was all good then finds his account closed with zero warning, abhorent and abysmal behaviour of not even extending the courtesy of an email.

Worse than that is he is then made to feel like the one in the wrong like some sort of weird twilight zone. It demonstrates this place is far from an impartial place where honest assessments of casino behaviour are spoken about because this behaviour is indefensible.

Give the man an answer, why did it take 8 pages, he was not looking for any handouts, he did not really even care about why it happened.
He was taking his experience and making a post about it so that it may help others out which is exactly what a forum is supposed to be about, it is not about a bunch of sycophants behaving as a casinos lapdog.

Still an entertaining read and proof that people can spin something anyway they want.

***Also I have read the playbook with regard to mindf*cking someone who is calm reasonable and rational, Rule one is always to ask them to stop being so irrational I see that this rule was enacted a number of times & with some degree of success as the poor guy seems to have blown a gasget at the end.

I did cringe at the face saving part where the rep wanted to on one hand offer him an account so he looked like he was doing the right thing but then packaged up with the barb of having restrictions on it.........

These are mind tricks that would make military psych ops proud..

 

[The Dude]

Holy shit, this thread was good reading.

It makes me realise how far up the backside of the casinos many here are.

This dude came in with a completely normal concern, was polite & respectful. I do not know anyone on this thread in the least so am impartial here. He was needled with underhanded and subtle digs to get a rise out of him all the way along from the start to the end and he kept his cool better than I would have.

This should be used as an example of exactly how customer service should not be handled, almost takes my breath away.

The guy gives bullet proof evidence that he did everything right, was told by the casino chat it was all good then finds his account closed with zero warning, abhorent and abysmal behaviour of not even extending the courtesy of an email.

Worse than that is he is then made to feel like the one in the wrong like some sort of weird twilight zone. It demonstrates this place is far from an impartial place where honest assessments of casino behaviour are spoken about because this behaviour is indefensible.

Give the man an answer, why did it take 8 pages, he was not looking for any handouts, he did not really even care about why it happened.
He was taking his experience and making a post about it so that it may help others out which is exactly what a forum is supposed to be about, it is not about a bunch of sycophants behaving as a casinos lapdog.

Still an entertaining read and proof that people can spin something anyway they want.

***Also I have read the playbook with regard to mindf*cking someone who is calm reasonable and rational, Rule one is always to ask them to stop being so irrational I see that this rule was enacted a number of times & with some degree of success as the poor guy seems to have blown a gasget at the end.

I did cringe at the face saving part where the rep wanted to on one hand offer him an account so he looked like he was doing the right thing but then packaged up with the barb of having restrictions on it.........

These are mind tricks that would make military psych ops proud..

You do realize that this thread has been dormant for over a year. And it's pretty much evident that Yits - the former casino manager - lost interest to managing the forum responses and pretty much let this go to shit. So I don't get why you are implying that people here have their heads up the casino's asses. Pretty trollish in my opinion.

Why don't you read up on a current thread concerning Guts etc. instead of rehashing the old?

 

[Adam Randall]

Trolling is a term misused so much, trolls will use any trick in the book to get a negative reaction from others and it matters little what they actually believe as their entire focus is on the negative reaction. For me, I actually believe what I write & ideally I prefer people to be in agreement with me rather than against, still it does not stop me saying what is my true thoughts on a subject.

I am not sure exactly how I ended up on that post, I knew it was an old post and yet it provided me with some light reading the was very interesting. I read the entire 8 or 9 pages and after that is when I began to form my opinion followed shortly by my post.

You may well post something that I agree with in the next post and if you do then I will not shy away from that fact. Everyone is different. This place must also walk a tightrope between players and casinos. On the one hand I am sure this place earns money from the casinos & yet on the other has to be critical. Not an easy position to be in.

I have never understood why people are critical of others replying to old posts because if the post is relevant to me then it matters little how old it was. It was a topical post that I thought demonstrated quite a serious level of unfairness.

The guy was the walking billboard for calm and reasonable from the start. Do people think that others cannot see what is being done in these instances & how transparent the bias is?

 

[Tirilej]

Trolling is a term misused so much, trolls will use any trick in the book to get a negative reaction from others and it matters little what they actually believe as their entire focus is on the negative reaction. For me, I actually believe what I write & ideally I prefer people to be in agreement with me rather than against, still it does not stop me saying what is my true thoughts on a subject.

I am not sure exactly how I ended up on that post, I knew it was an old post and yet it provided me with some light reading the was very interesting. I read the entire 8 or 9 pages and after that is when I began to form my opinion followed shortly by my post.

You may well post something that I agree with in the next post and if you do then I will not shy away from that fact. Everyone is different. This place must also walk a tightrope between players and casinos. On the one hand I am sure this place earns money from the casinos & yet on the other has to be critical. Not an easy position to be in.

I have never understood why people are critical of others replying to old posts because if the post is relevant to me then it matters little how old it was. It was a topical post that I thought demonstrated quite a serious level of unfairness.

The guy was the walking billboard for calm and reasonable from the start. Do people think that others cannot see what is being done in these instances & how transparent the bias is?

It's not the first time you're making a post without knowing enough to make those kinds of judgements that you do. The same happened here and you had just been a member for 2 weeks. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/karumba-casino-vs-aspirepleyford.79983/

The thing with this thread is that you have no idea what was said in other threads, and I guess you never checked if there were more threads started later about the same subject either.
Maybe the OP doesn't even want the thread to be digged up again since he's not allowed to discuss it more in the forum.
It's fine to have opinions but it should feel better if you knew a bit more before you judged this place and its members, or the casinos.

 

[colinsunderland]

Trolling is a term misused so much, trolls will use any trick in the book to get a negative reaction from others and it matters little what they actually believe as their entire focus is on the negative reaction. For me, I actually believe what I write & ideally I prefer people to be in agreement with me rather than against, still it does not stop me saying what is my true thoughts on a subject.

I am not sure exactly how I ended up on that post, I knew it was an old post and yet it provided me with some light reading the was very interesting. I read the entire 8 or 9 pages and after that is when I began to form my opinion followed shortly by my post.

You may well post something that I agree with in the next post and if you do then I will not shy away from that fact. Everyone is different. This place must also walk a tightrope between players and casinos. On the one hand I am sure this place earns money from the casinos & yet on the other has to be critical. Not an easy position to be in.

I have never understood why people are critical of others replying to old posts because if the post is relevant to me then it matters little how old it was. It was a topical post that I thought demonstrated quite a serious level of unfairness.

The guy was the walking billboard for calm and reasonable from the start. Do people think that others cannot see what is being done in these instances & how transparent the bias is?

Why haven't you updated your complaint thread yet like you said you would?

 

[The Dude]

Trolling is a term misused so much, trolls will use any trick in the book to get a negative reaction from others and it matters little what they actually believe as their entire focus is on the negative reaction. For me, I actually believe what I write & ideally I prefer people to be in agreement with me rather than against, still it does not stop me saying what is my true thoughts on a subject.

Well, it's not being misused here. I have been running this forum for nearly two decades, and I know trollish posts when I see them.

I am not sure exactly how I ended up on that post, I knew it was an old post and yet it provided me with some light reading the was very interesting. I read the entire 8 or 9 pages and after that is when I began to form my opinion followed shortly by my post.

Stay alert - stay alive. Keep an eye on what the date was from the last post - and see if there are other threads that are more up-to-date. There is no automated system here that closes dormant threads - i.e. those that have not been posted to for over a year.

And one of your conclusions was that so many people have their heads up the asses of the casinos. That is pretty much a troll post in my opinion.

You may well post something that I agree with in the next post and if you do then I will not shy away from that fact. Everyone is different. This place must also walk a tightrope between players and casinos. On the one hand I am sure this place earns money from the casinos & yet on the other has to be critical. Not an easy position to be in.

No tightrope here. It's called proper business ethics, and I have had no problem being ethical - ever. We have removed many casinos from this site for failing to maintain proper standards - some even being thrown in the rogue pit. I have no problem being critical about any casino, and if you had read some of my recent postings concerning Guts, etc., you would have understood this.

If you think this website/forum/ membership is so biased, then why bother being a member? I have always welcomed criticism, mainly because criticism has actually improved this site. But criticism should be coming from a balanced point of view - not biased or passive aggressive. Comprende?

 

[Adam Randall]

any[/B] casino, and if you had read some of my recent postings concerning Guts, etc., you would have understood this.

If you think this website/forum/ membership is so biased, then why bother being a member? I have always welcomed criticism, mainly because criticism has actually improved this site. But criticism should be coming from a balanced point of view - not biased or passive aggressive. Comprende?

I like the forum, that is why I am here but that does not mean I am not going to speak my mind when I feel like it, you may not agree with it and that is ok by me.

Trolling.....we can agree to disagree it is not very important an I explained my view on what a troll is.

As far as never having problems with ethics in business.....yeah right, you have never struggled with a dilema that involved heavily testing your integrity where no matter which way you go, you feel that none of the options are ethical? I have run a business, it was a failure if I am honest but I was faced with many times where every choice was shades of grey.

A business like this would often have decisions being required where neither choice is completely ethical. I learnt a long time ago that the simple black and white world does not exist and there are so many shades of grey that it is not possible to give such a simplified answer


I am not passive agressive, If I have a problem with someone then I tell them. My examples of being critical on this thread are exactly the opposite behaviour of someone that is passive agressive.

 

[Adam Randall]

Why haven't you updated your complaint thread yet like you said you would?

Because I have not spoken to the bank yet, because it is an unpleasant task that I have been putting off because it will suck a lot of my time for at best $100....
Why don't you keep to the topic of this thread or is your objective to attempt to attack me personally about some completely unrelated matter?

Its a weak strategy and it looks unsophisticated to me. Lets stick to the topic of each thread. Pretend there is not an individual person at the end of an opinion and that may help you from spending time attempting to attack the person rather than the topic being discussed?

 

[Borgie]

Because I have not spoken to the bank yet, because it is an unpleasant task that I have been putting off because it will suck a lot of my time for at best $100....
Why don't you keep to the topic of this thread or is your objective to attempt to attack me personally about some completely unrelated matter?

Its a weak strategy and it looks unsophisticated to me. Lets stick to the topic of each thread. Pretend there is not an individual person at the end of an opinion and that may help you from spending time attempting to attack the person rather than the topic being discussed?

I'm sorry but the fact that you have not spoken to the bank yet says to me you know full well that the casino never actually took that money from you.

You not updating that thread means that the Casino are left looking as potential bad guys. I think that suits you for it to look that way.

People on this forum add value by keeping everyone up to date on what goes on with them and casinos - a lot of the time that's good stuff occasionally bad but they update us and the longer they are on the forum the more people get to trust them.

At the moment you are not giving good vibes - you don't want to be called out on your own thread but you are happy to throw stuff out on other peoples , be it year old thread or stuff you've not researched very well .

You are a guest in Bryans house here so afford him the respect he deserves and stop being a pita.

 

[Adam Randall]

I'm sorry but the fact that you have not spoken to the bank yet says to me you know full well that the casino never actually took that money from you.

You not updating that thread means that the Casino are left looking as potential bad guys. I think that suits you for it to look that way.

People on this forum add value by keeping everyone up to date on what goes on with them and casinos - a lot of the time that's good stuff occasionally bad but they update us and the longer they are on the forum the more people get to trust them.

At the moment you are not giving good vibes - you don't want to be called out on your own thread but you are happy to throw stuff out on other peoples , be it year old thread or stuff you've not researched very well .

You are a guest in Bryans house here so afford him the respect he deserves and stop being a pita.

Firstly, apology accepted.

This place is full of others who seem to think they know what is going on and will take the outcome that shows the person in the worst possible light.

Now I have told you why I have not undertaken that task, you have no possible way of knowing my motivation as you do not know me. If you want to think the worst of people then I suppose nobody is going to stop you..........but its a miserable way to go through life & ensures you are wrong most of the time.

This is a forum, I will express my opinion any way I see fit. I have not gotten personal at all and stuck to the topic. Nobody deserves or is entitled to my respect, that gets earned over time. I do however give people the basic courtesies expected when interacting on a forum. I to not call people a piece of sh*t for expressing their opinions.

In short, I made a topical comment on a post that others did not agree with, you should brace yourself because I will continue to speak my opinion and while I realise others revert to tantrums and name calling if they come across others that do not agree, I cannot help them change and frankly I find it amusing.

That is about all I have to say

 

[Adam Randall]

It's not the first time you're making a post without knowing enough to make those kinds of judgements that you do. The same happened here and you had just been a member for 2 weeks. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/karumba-casino-vs-aspirepleyford.79983/

The thing with this thread is that you have no idea what was said in other threads, and I guess you never checked if there were more threads started later about the same subject either.
Maybe the OP doesn't even want the thread to be digged up again since he's not allowed to discuss it more in the forum.
It's fine to have opinions but it should feel better if you knew a bit more before you judged this place and its members, or the casinos.

Let me guess, you are the one who should decide who gets a say and when the line of "knows enough about a topic" is crossed?

I stuck to the thread which made complete logical sense from start to finish and my comments were based directly on the interactions within this thread.

Perhaps the OP is a monster however in his communication with people in this thread alone, in my opinion, he was treated unfairly. I do not need to know the backstory.

 

[ladyhawke]

I stuck to the thread which made complete logical sense from start to finish and my comments were based directly on the interactions within this thread.

And for all of your numerous other 'logical' moments, I give you...

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[Adam Randall]

And for all of your numerous other 'logical' moments, I give you...

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

If you are going to have a dig then at least make a clear and concise reason for it.

 

[ladyhawke]

If you are going to have a dig then at least make a clear and concise reason for it.

Not too bright at times, are you?

A re-read of this thread, and your responses, is very illuminating. You have insulted everyone, including Bryan (the Forum owner), under the guise of believing you have the right to say what you like, as "This is a forum, I will express my opinion any way I see fit."

You also state: "Nobody deserves or is entitled to my respect, that gets earned over time."

So let's take a look at some of your little digs:

"it is not about a bunch of sycophants behaving as a casinos lapdog."

"It makes me realise how far up the backside of the casinos many here are."

"It demonstrates this place is far from an impartial place where honest assessments of casino behaviour are spoken about because this behaviour is indefensible."

And let's not forget some of your specific digs aimed at CM members:

"Why don't you keep to the topic of this thread or is your objective to attempt to attack me personally about some completely unrelated matter? Its a weak strategy and it looks unsophisticated to me."

Respect is a two way street, but that logic seems to have bypassed you by. Even though you state "... but that does not mean I am not going to speak my mind when I feel like it, you may not agree with it and that is ok by me", this is patently untrue.

Anyone - and I mean Anyone - who dares to either disagree with you/challenge you gets to feel the full force of your ire, under the guise of simple criticism, e.g. "you should brace yourself because I will continue to speak my opinion and while I realise others revert to tantrums and name calling if they come across others that do not agree, I cannot help them change and frankly I find it amusing."

Your attitude is wrong on so many levels, I find it incomprehensible that you believe your behaviour is "exactly the opposite behaviour of someone that is passive agressive." You just twist and spin...spin...spin whatever is said into something that you can use to undermine and belittle the poster.

I have refrained from any "tantrums and name calling", but trust me, it really has been a challenge.

 

[Tirilej]

Let me guess, you are the one who should decide who gets a say and when the line of "knows enough about a topic" is crossed?

I stuck to the thread which made complete logical sense from start to finish and my comments were based directly on the interactions within this thread.

Perhaps the OP is a monster however in his communication with people in this thread alone, in my opinion, he was treated unfairly. I do not need to know the backstory.

No, but I did give you a few reasons for why you should think before posting in an old thread. Have you ever been able to admit being wrong?

Yes you do need to know the backstory or you shouldn't judge. That goes from every part of your life. It's great to have opinions but what are they worth if you have no clue what you're talking about?

 

[ladyhawke]

No, but I did give you a few reasons for why you should think before posting in an old thread. Have you ever been able to admit being wrong?

Yes you do need to know the backstory or you shouldn't judge. That goes from every part of your life. It's great to have opinions but what are they worth if you have no clue what you're talking about?

Another important point is that using old posts as a raison d'être for attacking a casino is effectively refusing to accept the possibility that casinos are capable of learning from their missteps, and can change for the better, a fact that newer posts would support.

Not always of course, but sometimes.

 

[Tirilej]

Another important point is that using old posts as a raison d'être for attacking a casino is effectively refusing to accept the possibility that casinos are capable of learning from their missteps, and can change for the better, a fact that newer posts would support.

Not always of course, but sometimes.

Absolutely! We're suppose to learn from the past, but move on. The fact that there was another thread started after this one about the same subject makes this even more outdated.
You're thinking a lot like me I was planning to ask Bryan to maybe split these last pages to its own thread since it's more about one persons opinion, and also the fact that it seems very important to tell how bad everyone else behaved back in the thread. I'm so evil

 

[ladyhawke]

Absolutely! We're suppose to learn from the past, but move on. The fact that there was another thread started after this one about the same subject makes this even more outdated.
You're thinking a lot like me I was planning to ask Bryan to maybe split these last pages to its own thread since it's more about one persons opinion, and also the fact that it seems very important to tell how bad everyone else behaved back in the thread. I'm so evil

:notworthy