Ukraine Mess

[interlog]

Not saying to trust Putin because anyone that goes into war with another nation is not a good person but none of our leaders are saints either, always look at all the information out there from all sides and try and keep an open mind because both sides WEST/EAST will try and put their influence on people.

SCOMO just announced 100 million aide to a war while our own nation (Australia) is screwed as is due to COVID and lots of other factors.

They can keep the global military money machine going but forget about their own citizens.

No doubt China will be jumping into Taiwan soon which is not at all good (they have the most advanced chip company TSMC on the planet so their technological leap will be huge if they take it).

As much as people critisize Trump he was one leader that the Globalists originally thought they could keep in their back pocket but he was a true Patriot and not a globalist who could not be bought (he already had all the money his family would ever need) and was a massive dent in their globalist plans just like Putin is. Why were there no conflicts and issues with Russia and even North Korea while Trump was in power ?

All I can say is god help us all with the state of affairs this whole world is in with these puppet leaders.

That is not exclusive to Governments. Take the Company that I work for. At the same time as announcing some 2,000 redudancies they made a £1.5m donation to support the humanitarian effort that is needed in Ukraine. Defies belief for those that are set to lose their jobs though from those that are not effected point of view the correct thing to do.

 

[Casinomeister]

I think a permanent ban is too harsh over something that in the end boils down to difference of opinions more or less.
I dont see eye to eye with Geordie on most topics, but i think it would be a shame to ban one of the more active posters on the forum over this.

As far as insulting comments go, people get away with alot worse without getting a warning.
And since the judge is supposed to be impartial:

The problem is - when do you say enough is enough? The guy had plenty of chances to be cool. Warned many times - he has 15 infractions/warnings over the past three years mostly for troll posts, insulting folks, and disrespecting the moderators and admins. He just refuses to adhere to the rules that most all of us abide by without a second thought.

This is a serious thread. We have forum members in the Ukraine, in Russia, in Belarus, and in Eastern Europe, and this is not the time or place to belittle your fellow members with these aggravating and insulting comments. Some forums welcome that behaviour. This is not one of them.

No ban is permanent (in most cases). Sometimes all it takes is an acknowledgement that you were wrong, an apology, and a promise to behave.

 

[cheekymonkey]

It's so sad and it's wearing me down. I'm too afraid to even click to a news site now as I'm finding the atrocities too much to bear.

The madness has to end soon, surely.

 

[mack341]

According to tucker carlson's show yesterday there are quite a few voices in and around washington now calling for US intervention, enforcing a no fly zone or destroying that convoy of infantry trucks, which really would be raising the stakes.

Not being exposed to the US media coverage etc, it's difficult to know whether these suggestions are gaining traction with decision makers. Apparently polls carried out by cnn suggest the public do not support direct military involvement, but even running such a poll as a serious proposition is a bit concerning.

 

[dionysus]

I'm.........fully owning my liberallness...left...not far left
I'm not always breaking
However I'm bending

I will even throw this out there >
I barely....rarely....agree with (insert member/leader here)...BUT...I respect his/their views :
Why?
Cant see eye to eye. But he/they is polite. kind and shares his views. I JUST cant agree. But..I CAN agree to disagree )


________________________

Me, personally,
I'm trying....TRYING....to see sides but......autocracy....but the world has moved forward to democracy
`

 

[dionysus]

Tyrants.....dictators.....havent a place in a unified planet

 

[Kroffe]

According to tucker carlson's show yesterday there are quite a few voices in and around washington now calling for US intervention, enforcing a no fly zone or destroying that convoy of infantry trucks, which really would be raising the stakes.

Not being exposed to the US media coverage etc, it's difficult to know whether these suggestions are gaining traction with decision makers. Apparently polls carried out by cnn suggest the public do not support direct military involvement, but even running such a poll as a serious proposition is a bit concerning.

Russia had a couple planes (4) that crossed over into Swedish airspace earlier today.
Was just for a short while, over sea (baltic sea) east of Gotland.

Some are saying it could have been done by accident, meaning that they flew to close to us as to avoid accidentally ending up in in the airspace of a NATO member country, because that would probably not end up with just pictures of the planes.

But Ministry of defence seem pretty sure its Russias way of saying: 'we see you sending aid/weapons to Ukraine'

 

[Casinomeister]

According to tucker carlson's show yesterday there are quite a few voices in and around washington now calling for US intervention, enforcing a no fly zone or destroying that convoy of infantry trucks, which really would be raising the stakes.

These people are idiots and are just trying to produce click bait. There cannot be a no-fly zone since the only way to enforce this is by shooting down Russian aircraft. In case people have forgotten, Russia is a nuclear super power and will use nukes to defeat their enemies - which means NATO - which means all of us.

Unfortunately all we can do is sit here and watch this unfold and hope for a collapse of the morale of their military. That is the key right there. The Russian army is poorly trained and equipped. I have watched their infantry tactics and am gobsmacked at the carelessness and how poorly trained they are. Their infantry tatics remind me of something you'd see in a bad WWII film: crowding around tanks and armored vehicles, clustered together in open areas, no bounding overwatch in zones where enemy contact is expected, etc.

But what do you expect from a conscription army that lacks an NCO corps? And these poor troops don't want to be there. It's just a matter of time when we will begin to see mutinous activities. No beans, no bullets, no fuel, no water = no will to fight.

 

[justdoit]

Russia had a couple planes (4) that crossed over into Swedish airspace earlier today.
Was just for a short while, over sea (baltic sea) east of Gotland.

Some are saying it could have been done by accident, meaning that they flew to close to us as to avoid accidentally ending up in in the airspace of a NATO member country, because that would probably not end up with just pictures of the planes.

But Ministry of defence seem pretty sure its Russias way of saying: 'we see you sending aid/weapons to Ukraine'


View attachment 165227View attachment 165228

looks like they was running from him

 

[dionysus]

Gods...I do..DO.....wish I could make a clear and concise post....but...but all I can do, now, is just wish.........w/e you happen to believe, w/e side, w/e opinions
Jeebuz, wish for a democracy v an autocracy.....wish for humanity, wish for hope....wish for well-being
Christ - or your chosen gods(s)...wish we are/can be .....JUST FUCKING BETTER

 

[mack341]

These people are idiots and are just trying to produce click bait. There cannot be a no-fly zone since the only way to enforce this is by shooting down Russian aircraft. In case people have forgotten, Russia is a nuclear super power and will use nukes to defeat their enemies - which means NATO - which means all of us.

Unfortunately all we can do is sit here and watch this unfold and hope for a collapse of the morale of their military. That is the key right there. The Russian army is poorly trained and equipped. I have watched their infantry tactics and am gobsmacked at the carelessness and how poorly trained they are. Their infantry tatics remind me of something you'd see in a bad WWII film: crowding around tanks and armored vehicles, clustered together in open areas, no bounding overwatch in zones where enemy contact is expected, etc.

But what do you expect from a conscription army that lacks an NCO corps? And these poor troops don't want to be there. It's just a matter of time when we will begin to see mutinous activities. No beans, no bullets, no fuel, no water = no will to fight.

I hope so, but even just looking now I can find a recent yahoo news article quoting 'former british army chief' General Sir Richard Barrons:

"However, asked on BBC’s Newsnight programme on Monday about the potential enforcement of a no-fly zone, Sir Richard said: “The choice I think we’re going to have to make, if the Russian military doesn’t hold back, is we can either watch the slaughter of tens of thousands of Ukrainian citizens, or we’re going to have to find ways to do something about it that are more urgent and decisive than sanctions.

“I think this pressure will come, this debate will come this week if the Russian army unleashes its firepower on the civilian population.”

He added: “It does mean war with Russia [but]... we might assert that this is war with Russia in Ukraine only.

Sir Richard said: “By Wednesday, Russian heavy artillery will be around these Ukrainian cities, and they may be firing indiscriminately and destroying large chunks of a city and killing civilians.

“One of the issues for about Thursday or Friday of this week is how does public opinion in the UK and other countries react to seeing people who look and live like us being slaughtered.

“At that stage, I think there’ll be a different conversation led by public opinion about the application of Nato military, power perhaps through the sky and definitely against heavy weapons.”

-------

Edit: I think this at least means it has been discussed at the top levels as a possibility, and the air force chiefs asked to prepare a report/plans, hence also Putin's warning of hitherto unexperienced consequences, most likely a bluff but carries huge risks to call it.

 

[Lucky Loser]

If it wasn't for Russia's nukes I would support Nato getting involved as it would easily win. A desperate Putin backed into a corner with a finger on the nuke trigger is not worth the risk. His age and mental stability is a concern.

 

[mack341]

Reading the bbc live news feed today, there are definite intimations and references to a no fly zone, and that further actions than sanctions are required to save civilian life.

I think the coverage has been building up to this, to 'prime' the public for direct intervention, whether the whole of europe/nato is onboard is another question.

 

[dunover]

These people are idiots and are just trying to produce click bait. There cannot be a no-fly zone since the only way to enforce this is by shooting down Russian aircraft. In case people have forgotten, Russia is a nuclear super power and will use nukes to defeat their enemies - which means NATO - which means all of us.

Unfortunately all we can do is sit here and watch this unfold and hope for a collapse of the morale of their military. That is the key right there. The Russian army is poorly trained and equipped. I have watched their infantry tactics and am gobsmacked at the carelessness and how poorly trained they are. Their infantry tatics remind me of something you'd see in a bad WWII film: crowding around tanks and armored vehicles, clustered together in open areas, no bounding overwatch in zones where enemy contact is expected, etc.

But what do you expect from a conscription army that lacks an NCO corps? And these poor troops don't want to be there. It's just a matter of time when we will begin to see mutinous activities. No beans, no bullets, no fuel, no water = no will to fight.

I'm surprised that there hasn't been a 'chicken shoot' yet by Ukraine's planes on that convoy, like the allies did on Saddam's in Iraq, all that firepower out in the open on a highway route, a sitting duck. Hit the near end near Kiev, the far end near Belarus to block off retreat and then the middle? It may be stuck there as a diversion to encourage Ukraine to move forces from the centre and east methinks.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Any hesitation towards retaliation does not surprise me. If they attack the convoy, the gloves are off and both sides move on to the next phase of their attacks.

The idea of a war between NATO and Russia limited only to the battleground of Ukraine seems preposterous to me, and one that doesn't look positive for Ukraine. Hard to comprehend a war between two opposing forces not reaching either's home soil. I'm no expert, but I don't recall a war being fought that way when the two opposing forces have the capacity to hit each other.

I hope a diplomatic solution is found and quickly.

 

[wyder33]

A diplomatic solution with Putin is not an option. He just makes no concessions. The second issue is with what law conditions if he is an aggressor? In my opinion, we are just witnessing the beginning of the 3rd World War. Remember the beginning of the Second World War, then no one expected such a big conflict. Unfortunately, history repeats itself. The only solution to this situation is somewhere in Russia. So the Russian people have to stand up or someone from Putin's close circle has to put some order in order. If this does not happen, Russia will find itself in such an economic situation that Putin will have nothing to lose, he will not withdraw now. He is not a man ready to make concessions, he has a goal to which he is striving at any cost.

 

[dionysus]

TBH, I dont foresee a WW3 - the two major players I'd possibly worry of, Putin, an autocrat, and Trump a wish-I-were autocrat, are far, far too narcissistic and self-absorbed to put themselves in the ground as wanna be saviours of the human race

 

[cheekymonkey]

A diplomatic solution with Putin is not an option. He just makes no concessions. The second issue is with what law conditions if he is an aggressor? In my opinion, we are just witnessing the beginning of the 3rd World War. Remember the beginning of the Second World War, then no one expected such a big conflict. Unfortunately, history repeats itself. The only solution to this situation is somewhere in Russia. So the Russian people have to stand up or someone from Putin's close circle has to put some order in order. If this does not happen, Russia will find itself in such an economic situation that Putin will have nothing to lose, he will not withdraw now. He is not a man ready to make concessions, he has a goal to which he is striving at any cost.

He is completely unstable and needs to be removed from this planet immediately.

A fucking psychopath. A vile, disgusting excuse of a human.

 

[wyder33]

Well, the point is that Putin is an autocrat, if the sanks that the rest of the world will impose on Russia will cause her to collapse in the economy, it will be an ideal situation for an autocrat to say - look my citizens how bad this world is, I meant well and they punished you, you Russians. You have to oppose this evil ... I can imagine such words falling from Putin's lips. This man is made to lie and manipulate. More than one president who talked to him has found out about it. I will quote the words of the President of the Republic of Poland, Lech Kaczyński, which he spoke in Georgia and in two years he died in Smolensk - "We know very well that today Georgia, tomorrow Ukraine, the day after tomorrow the Baltic States, and then maybe it's time for my country, for Poland."

 

[dealer wins]

If it wasn't for Russia's nukes I would support Nato getting involved as it would easily win. A desperate Putin backed into a corner with a finger on the nuke trigger is not worth the risk. His age and mental stability is a concern.

Why having nukes is essential, even N Korea understand that

 

[dionysus]

Nukes are essential when everyone has nukes
Nukes are redundant if noone has any

i know we cant turn back the clock, but wish we could

 

[bamberfishcake]

I think our acceptance is part of the problem - the attitude of 'well, we need nukes to defend ourselves from other countries with nukes'. We can turn back the clock effectively by abandoning and decommissioning all Nuclear weapons.

Having a weapon that is capable of devastating and destroying millions of lives is unnecessary and ridiculously out of proportion with the need to defend your country. Hiroshima should have taught the world all it needs to know about the usefulness of weapons of mass destruction.

It requires collaboration from the whole planet. We too often think we are part of single countries and individual communities and forget we are all together on this big rock.

Only needs one nutter to launch one and then the other nutters launch some back and before you know it you have billions of lives lost and two countries uninhabitable for years. Just their presence alone is scary.

 

[justdoit]

lol

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I think our acceptance is part of the problem - the attitude of 'well, we need nukes to defend ourselves from other countries with nukes'. We can turn back the clock effectively by abandoning and decommissioning all Nuclear weapons.

Having a weapon that is capable of devastating and destroying millions of lives is unnecessary and ridiculously out of proportion with the need to defend your country. Hiroshima should have taught the world all it needs to know about the usefulness of weapons of mass destruction.

It requires collaboration from the whole planet. We too often think we are part of single countries and individual communities and forget we are all together on this big rock.

Only needs one nutter to launch one and then the other nutters launch some back and before you know it you have billions of lives lost and two countries uninhabitable for years. Just their presence alone is scary.

It's not just two countries either bamber, it's effectively the whole world that would be condemned to a nuclear winter. India and Pakistan are both nuclear powers, if they launched everything they had at each other, with not a single nuke landing anywhere outside those two countries, the rest of the world would still endure a nuclear winter due to all the shit that would be sucked up into the atmosphere.

Have a watch of this if you're so minded.




In other news I watched this a few days ago, one to give you nightmares..... It's a BBC TV film from 1984, but has got a recent remaster and is available from Amazon. It's pretty grim, my conclusion was that in the event of a nuclear war, you really want to die in the initial blasts, you don't want to be around for what's left.

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[mack341]

It's not just two countries either bamber, it's effectively the whole world that would be condemned to a nuclear winter. India and Pakistan are both nuclear powers, if they launched everything they had at each other, with not a single nuke landing anywhere outside those two countries, the rest of the world would still endure a nuclear winter due to all the shit that would be sucked up into the atmosphere.

Have a watch of this if you're so minded.




In other news I watched this a few days ago, one to give you nightmares..... It's a BBC TV film from 1984, but has got a recent remaster and is available from Amazon. It's pretty grim, my conclusion was that in the event of a nuclear war, you really want to die in the initial blasts, you don't want to be around for what's left.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

View attachment 165323

I remember that film at the time, had a documentary feel to it that gave it added realism and bleakness. Atm the tone I get from some of the press/media is more attempted blasé on this potential outcome, a 'would it be so bad' 'don't worry too much' . The total opposite approach to the 80's message.