Guts/Betspin/Rizk and generally the issue with Groups and Operators linked by licence

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
Mac72, as it happens Yits was in a meeting with me at that time, where we were discussing - amongst a large number of other matters - your case and that of taximania123.

There have been other points on this during this whole thread and so to be clear. Earlier this month we upgraded our cross referencing software and procedures to ensure that these type of situations should not happen in the future, this means that anyone that has an exclusion from any of the brands should NOT even be able to register at another brand during an exclusion period.

What it also means is that on top of an already full workload there is a backlog of cases that are being resolved on a daily basis. Taximania123 should receive a communication in the next hour or two that his case has been resolved and Mac72, Yits will get to your case later today.

You can rest assured that these cases still have visibility and are being actioned, the necessary processes are being followed. The relevant and auditable paperwork that we need to do for these cases is being created and processed



Tirilej is pretty much spot on here and, as above, and as above these will be solved asap.

I'd like to receive the outcome to my case in open on this thread not by pm.This caused me considerable annoyance at the time with GUTS and the follow up with Tony from that company, i got past it but now its annoying me again and why shouldn't it.
I played completely within the rules, the one overbet is not an overbet as per the live chat it was quashed. If thats not the case then obviously live chat cannot be trusted.
So in effect we have a situation where i played within the rules and then was left not knowing what was going on,had my payment info been hacked etc etc. Just let me know in the open forum how this all came about
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
As a quick aside, 2016 notification addresses all of 2015; and 2015, for 2014...so essentially, they won the awards before the most current..ie but a year and a bit they won
Additionally, as it turns out, Tril was likely pretty spot on.

yeah she was! - 4/6 on she pm'd them. The reason they're talking now after an absense is cause we're talking and thats it in a nutshell
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Sweden
yeah she was! - 4/6 on she pm'd them. The reason they're talking now after an absense is cause we're talking and thats it in a nutshell

No I didn't. Since they hadn't responded to your pm's then I knew they wouldn't respond to mine. Chrystal clear.

I say what I feel needs to be said, and I defend anyone who deserves it. If that annoys you then it's your problem, though I think it's sad. It would be so much easier in here if we were polite and listened to eachother.
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
Additionally, I'd not pmed anyone either; rather, the team saw the post/thread and responded.

ah its all clear now, they watch the THREADS and respond nearly immediately they get going,its just the numerous pm's they ignore for weeks!! :thumbsup:
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
No I didn't. Since they hadn't responded to your pm's then I knew they wouldn't respond to mine. Chrystal clear.

I say what I feel needs to be said, and I defend anyone who deserves it. If that annoys you then it's your problem, though I think it's sad. It would be so much easier in here if we were polite and listened to eachother.

Lets be "crystal" clear on this Tirilej, i am annoyed about the GUTS situation and how i was treated and made feel . I am not in the slightest bit annoyed about anything you would ever say, i have always viewed you as wearing two hats and that makes your views on most things to me anyway irrelevant.
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
ah its all clear now, they watch the THREADS and respond nearly immediately they get going,its just the numerous pm's they ignore for weeks!! :thumbsup:

What is clear is that, though you referenced GUTS in your first line, the Cap'n, outside of his own responsibilities and duties was kind enough to step in and post on behalf of his peer to a relevant point but recognizes the other points arent his remit :thumbsup:
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
What is clear is that, though you referenced GUTS in your first line, the Cap'n, outside of his own responsibilities and duties was kind enough to step in and post on behalf of his peer to a relevant point but recognizes the other points arent his remit :thumbsup:

According to him he was sitting beside his peer ! And i referenced Rizk in the 1st line too:thumbsup:
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
Lets be "crystal" clear on this Tirilej, i am annoyed about the GUTS situation and how i was treated and made feel . I am not in the slightest bit annoyed about anything you would ever say, i have always viewed you as wearing two hats and that makes your views on most things to me anyway irrelevant.

I may be quoting YOU, but to Tril - I respect she wears two hats. She can see the player side AND the casino side. To me, that makes her unbiased and her opinions incredibly relevant.

I may appear here, to be casino biased, but I put ANY casino through the wringer. I call out, freely, both sides. ;)
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
I may be quoting YOU, but to Tril - I respect she wears two hats. She can see the player side AND the casino side. To me, that makes her unbiased and her opinions incredibly relevant.

I may appear here, to be casino biased, but I put ANY casino through the wringer. I call out, freely, both sides. ;)

Every player has to see the casino side, she sees the casinos side way too often when its obvious they are in the wrong , thats my opinion, has been for a while now
 

crikeym8

Multiple forum accounts - flaming and being a PITA
PABnoaccred
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Location
Moorabbin
A good casino would have a feature warning you when you make those mistakes. A good casino would prevent you increasing above that limit. A good casino wouldnt allow you to sign up twice by implementing simple data comparison coding. a good cxasino wouldnt allow deposits if data between accounts breaches their terms. Thats a good casino, ive found 2 that provide these features, this week i closed every other casino account i could remember being on except these two.
 

Guts - Yits

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Location
Malta
Hi mac82 - can you outline to me please in a single, simplified post what it is you are requesting of me? This all happened way, way before my time at Guts and it's not 100% clear to me what you are requesting? I cannot access the EM game-round-specific data without requesting it especially from them (although it would be forthcoming if requested, I'm certain), and according to the original game logs you posted you did indeed breach terms, albeit ever so slightly which may have been harshly interpreted by whoever took the decision to enforce these terms. As I originally stated it might not necessarily be the approach I would have taken - but I again stress that I had nothing to do with it.

So, once again, state in clear terms what you are seeking please so I do not need to skim through this thread in its entirety and assemble it as that invariably causes me to miss one or more aspects of the development? If it is confirmation that enforcement was overly harsh - then yes I agree with you, and they could have perhaps extended your wagering a bit or given you a last chance warning to please avoid it in the future.

If it is compensation you seek - outline it kindly.

And yes, I do not take chats via the customer service tool if at all possible - I will on occasion help them when they are slammed, simply because there are too many chats in the queue, but it is a rare occurrence. I am constantly working and incessantly behind on operational tasks, last night I was setting up bonuses at 02:00 AM, after having worked the entire weekend to keep the Easter Trivia promo stable and address all bugfixes. CS are there to take your chats. It is not because I "feel too good" for it - it is because I do not have the time, and otherwise there would be no promos, no free spins, no new games, no bonuses, no offers, no new functionalities etc...

That is not snobbery, it is common sense.

Having said that, I am looking internally for a solution to this CM absence that I occasionally fall into - I will soon announce an additional rep either sharing my login or setting up his own - we shall then rotate CM coverage shifts, because I am conscious of the fact that I sometimes go awol and need to find a solution that more suits the fair fulfillment of legitimate CM contacts and gripes. I apologise sncerely to all legitimate contacts who have been kept waiting.

I kindly await your public response, and shall answer it tomorrow by 19:00 CET.

Respectfully,

Yits

I'd like to receive the outcome to my case in open on this thread not by pm.This caused me considerable annoyance at the time with GUTS and the follow up with Tony from that company, i got past it but now its annoying me again and why shouldn't it.
I played completely within the rules, the one overbet is not an overbet as per the live chat it was quashed. If thats not the case then obviously live chat cannot be trusted.
So in effect we have a situation where i played within the rules and then was left not knowing what was going on,had my payment info been hacked etc etc. Just let me know in the open forum how this all came about
 

Guts - Yits

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Location
Malta
This tool was recently developed, but the messaging is too confusing to go live with for the customer. The workaround for the (unexpectedly complicated) messaging problems that are being overriden by the game-provider iFrame are currently being scoped.

FYI - I hear your point and you are not at all being obtuse by stating it, but I stress please always read bonus terms. Our general bonus terms are among the most simple and understandable in the industry - and our CS team is there to clarify further regarding any of the quite few clauses that encompass these bonus terms.

I never, ever play at a casino without checking terms. I strongly suggest as a fellow gamer that you do the same - it's a pain to do so at the time as you are likely excited and ready to deposit and play, but it's worth it. Kind of like going to doctor to check out that pesky cough rather than seeing if you can wait it out and it goes away - it's not immediately convenient, but it is extremely prudent and by far the better tactic.

I hope this makes sense - and that you see that we have taken this feedback aboard for our casino platform.

BR

Yits

A good casino would have a feature warning you when you make those mistakes. A good casino would prevent you increasing above that limit. A good casino wouldnt allow you to sign up twice by implementing simple data comparison coding. a good cxasino wouldnt allow deposits if data between accounts breaches their terms. Thats a good casino, ive found 2 that provide these features, this week i closed every other casino account i could remember being on except these two.
 

Guts - Yits

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Location
Malta
Taximania123,

I am sorry - I was ensured that your refund would be fully processed - we made sure to get this done today and I have received confirmation that it had been dispatched . You should also have received an email from the head of customer services reconfirming this.

Why this happened I don't know - I thought this chapter had been finalised and can only assume it was a human oversight, rather than a system error.

No excuses here from my end, it was a crappy oversight from our part and frankly I'm a bit embarrassed.

Has he really not been here for three weeks ?
 

Guts - Yits

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Location
Malta
ALL -STATUS UPDATE

Hi all,

All outstanding PMs will be answered by 19:00 CET tomorrow evening, I have to take care of some operational task over the next hour, and want to get out of the office after that. To outline:

1. PMs - sorry it's not great from my part - I was abroad for 5 days, and now we have a massive and labour-intensive Easter promo live and a new team starter who needs training and attention.

2. The good news is that this new starter, once basically trained and familiarized, will allow for an additional rep - either on my login (we'll update the names accordingly in that scenario) or on a separate one. I would prefer the first option, so that we both receive messages and can coordinate, but of course in an ideal world we all have our own individual accounts and logins - the only issue with that is that we will not be able to know what the other account has or has not received and handled, making for a harder process. Either way, the idea is that there will be less delays and lags, and more consistent casino rep coverage.

3. Once the 2nd rep is on board, we'll announce a very generous CM Guts promo. Regardless of what may be the case, I'm pretty certain all involved will be able to enjoy it and benefit from it.

Kindest regards to all for now,

Yits
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
Hi mac82 - can you outline to me please in a single, simplified post what it is you are requesting of me? This all happened way, way before my time at Guts and it's not 100% clear to me what you are requesting? I cannot access the EM game-round-specific data without requesting it especially from them (although it would be forthcoming if requested, I'm certain), and according to the original game logs you posted you did indeed breach terms, albeit ever so slightly which may have been harshly interpreted by whoever took the decision to enforce these terms. As I originally stated it might not necessarily be the approach I would have taken - but I again stress that I had nothing to do with it.

So, once again, state in clear terms what you are seeking please so I do not need to skim through this thread in its entirety and assemble it as that invariably causes me to miss one or more aspects of the development? If it is confirmation that enforcement was overly harsh - then yes I agree with you, and they could have perhaps extended your wagering a bit or given you a last chance warning to please avoid it in the future.

If it is compensation you seek - outline it kindly.

And yes, I do not take chats via the customer service tool if at all possible - I will on occasion help them when they are slammed, simply because there are too many chats in the queue, but it is a rare occurrence. I am constantly working and incessantly behind on operational tasks, last night I was setting up bonuses at 02:00 AM, after having worked the entire weekend to keep the Easter Trivia promo stable and address all bugfixes. CS are there to take your chats. It is not because I "feel too good" for it - it is because I do not have the time, and otherwise there would be no promos, no free spins, no new games, no bonuses, no offers, no new functionalities etc...

That is not snobbery, it is common sense.

Having said that, I am looking internally for a solution to this CM absence that I occasionally fall into - I will soon announce an additional rep either sharing my login or setting up his own - we shall then rotate CM coverage shifts, because I am conscious of the fact that I sometimes go awol and need to find a solution that more suits the fair fulfillment of legitimate CM contacts and gripes. I apologise sncerely to all legitimate contacts who have been kept waiting.

I kindly await your public response, and shall answer it tomorrow by 19:00 CET.

Respectfully,

Yits

Firstly you make reference to "legitimate CM contacts and gripes". I'm seeing that as a dig that i may not be "legitimate" but please advise if i have read that wrong. You also make a further reference apologising to "all legitimate contacts who have been kept waiting" and that would seem to reinforce my view that this isn't directed at me as this response was directed at me to begin with.

I didn't realise you were the "main man". Now the fact that you are and the fact that in your follow up pm's to me you talked about my "winnings being voided" and i had to correct you (which had you read the thread correctly wouldn't have happened,my name is mac72 by the way not mac82) and explain i actually wasn't at any financial loss just shows me the care and attention that is taken with these matters,indeed from the outset.

What relevance is it to me or any customer what time you are up to dealing with matters within your own company (you get renumeration for it, you neither need praise or a medal) and if without you there would be no "promos, no free spins, no new games, no bonuses, no offers, no new functionalities etc..." then your business is either a garden shed operation or it is a large enterprise with way too much focus on one person's abilities.

Had you read the thread correctly you would of established that i didn't give a toss about what happened historically with Guts/Betspin and had i gone onto Rizk and been refused an account there wouldn't have been a word about it.The fact that i had started to play there after full disclosure and "the CEO" authorising my account and not once but twice thereafter had my account closed due to the issues that the CEO had signed off on is what concerned me. What if i had had a 20k withdrawal pending during one of these closures,would i have been paid??? These are the things that quite rightly go through my mind.

As the "main man" who is "short of time" all the time you have now:
i) PM'd me 3 times
ii) Had at least one meeting with Captain Rizk about my "case"

After all this the position is that YOU are asking ME what i want? You have achieved not one step forward as yet in weeks.

At this stage i'd want the people who are backing GUTS financially to be asking themselves what the hell you are doing with your time:eek::eek::eek:

Anybody in your position should of identified quite quickly all that was needed for me was a simple assurance that i wouldn't run into any further issues with my RIZK account and having reviewed the GUTS logs and the GUTS chat i think an apology was in order ONLY because your chat rep told me it was ok that should of been the end of it.Had the chat rep told me at the time "you broke the rules thats it" i would have accepted it no questions asked.

Actually that poses a question for you to answer if you wish :
If a Chat Representative confirms something to a player on GUTS/BETSPIN?RIZK can that be relied upon or can that assurance simply be overridden again? If the answer is that chat can be relied on why close my account,it was an honest mistake one you could of enforced at the point of asking. Why this has run into such a mess is the inconsistency "its ok", "account closed" , "account refused at Betspin" , "Account opened with CEO approval at RIZK" , "Account closed" , "Account opened" , "Account closed", "Account opened" its just a complete clusterfuck!!

So in closing for my friend Triliej can you just confirm if this is a true statement:
"My account was closed at Guts due to one overbet of £8 resulting in an £8 loss on my account ,there was no gain from this overbet and i immediately spoke to CS about it and was assured by them it was an honest mistake and not to worry about it. I was denied the benefit of the other 2 parts of the Welcome Bonus at Guts due to the closure.
I was subsequently denied an account at Betspin due again to the £8 overbet which was information i provided full disclosure on when asking to open an account.
An account was then opened for me with CEO approval at RIZK and closed TWICE thereafter due to the overbet at GUTS despite again full disclosure at the point of opening by me"


According to Triliej nobody should judge you without knowing the full story.As far as i'm concerned the above is the full story,should you wish to add to it by all means do so. You see according to Triliej i am trying to give you a bad reputation but the above is all i have ever said so it follows that if the above can give you a bad reputation and it is all true with nothing left out then all you have done is earn a bad reputation (Her words not mine) all on your own.
 
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Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Well, one thing I can say - Mac72 - you're acting like a real jerk. Knock it off.

For one thing, I could barely get through your initial post - copies of chats, etc., what the hell? :what: Get to the freaking point? Who has time to read all of that?

How about - "I have a problem. This is what it is (one sentence). Can anyone give me advice?"

And when you posted this, I just gave up on the thread:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...groups-and-operators-linked-by-licence.72160/

What the hell is that supposed to prove? Do you think that anyone is going to actually read that garbage?

And throughout this thread you've been disrespectful towards your fellow members and the iGaming reps. This will not be tolerated.

So in essence, chill out, and let the casino reps decipher what your problem is. Let them do their jobs, and give you an answer. Thank you.
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
Staff member
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
I'm not going to trawl through the entire thread, as I do not have the time or frankly the inclination to do so. But I will throw in my two cents worth from myself as a player.

Guts have been a great casino for me to play at. They are extremely fast payers ( 24 hr from when I hit withdraw to when funds hit my bank account ) and the only time I had an issue, it was resolved extremely quickly and more importantly acted upon.

I see the rep here is involved in this thread. If there is an area where the casino is proven to be at fault, I have every confidence Guts will resolve it.

So far, I have nothing but praise for them.
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
Well, one thing I can say - Mac72 - you're acting like a real jerk. Knock it off.

For one thing, I could barely get through your initial post - copies of chats, etc., what the hell? :what: Get to the freaking point? Who has time to read all of that?

How about - "I have a problem. This is what it is (one sentence). Can anyone give me advice?"

And when you posted this, I just gave up on the thread:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...groups-and-operators-linked-by-licence.72160/

What the hell is that supposed to prove? Do you think that anyone is going to actually read that garbage?

And throughout this thread you've been disrespectful towards your fellow members and the iGaming reps. This will not be tolerated.

So in essence, chill out, and let the casino reps decipher what your problem is. Let them do their jobs, and give you an answer. Thank you.

I think my initial post was very well laid out and made a very clear point as the title suggested.

As is always the case we have the usual suspects who always query "are we getting the full story" which is why i showed the gameplay in its entireity, to remove any ambiguity (and pointed out in bold so no-one would have to go through it all where the £8 infraction occured). That is what it proved - that there was one bet over the max which was then forgiven and then went on to cause all this mess.

I waited for an answer and after weeks what i got back from YITS in public was "what do you want" (i had already communicated with him 3 times by PM and by his own admission he had a meeting with Captain Rizk so what exactly could they discuss if he didn't know the answer to question he has just had to ask)

The Jerk's (to coin your phrase) in this scenario are GUTS/BETSPIN/RIZK. If the infraction at GUTS was that major the correct response at that time was to say so on the live chat, i broke the rules that was it done.
Instead after forgiving the infraction they then closed the account - i point out i wasn't on here posting about that i fully respect that decision.

Then BETSPIN refused an account over the same £8 bet - i point out i wasn't on here posting about that i fully respect that decision.

Then RIZK opened an account after full disclosure and after their CEO rubber stamping it and TWICE since opening have they closed it and my issue is at any of these points when the account was closed there could have been major money in play, luckily there was not - HENCE the title of my thread about the problems dealing with connected companies and the potential for disaster.

I am well aware of exactly what YITS response to me yesterday was all about : The innuendo that there are "legitimate CM contacts" (so there must be illegitimate ones , strange as he himself thanked the original post) the use of the two letters TONY gave him ( i will break the suspense for you YITS the second letter when you open it says "sit down and write two letters") and the fact that after a fortnight he is not reading any of the communication properly - he is giving answers to questions that were never asked and therefore drawing this whole thing out.

He cannot decipher my problem Brian if he does not bother to read the initial post correctly, he has wasted my time and his. If he wants to publish his PM's to me it should be blatantly obvious that is the case.
I have in effect given him the answer in my last post, what i believe was the right course of action , or maybe that is just garbage
 

Captain Rizk

Dormant Account
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Location
Malta
Actually that poses a question for you to answer if you wish :
If a Chat Representative confirms something to a player on GUTS/BETSPIN?RIZK can that be relied upon or can that assurance simply be overridden again? If the answer is that chat can be relied on why close my account,it was an honest mistake one you could of enforced at the point of asking. Why this has run into such a mess is the inconsistency "its ok", "account closed" , "account refused at Betspin" , "Account opened with CEO approval at RIZK" , "Account closed" , "Account opened" , "Account closed", "Account opened" its just a complete clusterfuck!!

OK I have to bring this to a close from a Rizk point of view and answer all of these questions clearly and transparently. Yes your account did get closed incorrectly after the CEO had approved its opening, since then procedures have been brought in to make sure this doesnt happen again. Furthermore you were given further confirmation from me that there was no problem with your account. So for these errors I apologise on behalf of Rizk unresevedly.

I helped you on a number of occasions throughout your registration and welcome bonus that you did clear and were able to withdraw and refunded the incorrect withdrawal fees for your account and I can categorically confirm that even had you had any winnings at that point then you absolutely would have been paid AND your account reopened once we realised the mistake.

Your account with Rizk remains open and you are more than welcome to play with us any time you choose as I believe that you did just a couple of days ago.
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
OK I have to bring this to a close from a Rizk point of view and answer all of these questions clearly and transparently. Yes your account did get closed incorrectly after the CEO had approved its opening, since then procedures have been brought in to make sure this doesnt happen again. Furthermore you were given further confirmation from me that there was no problem with your account. So for these errors I apologise on behalf of Rizk unresevedly.

I helped you on a number of occasions throughout your registration and welcome bonus that you did clear and were able to withdraw and refunded the incorrect withdrawal fees for your account and I can categorically confirm that even had you had any winnings at that point then you absolutely would have been paid AND your account reopened once we realised the mistake.

Your account with Rizk remains open and you are more than welcome to play with us any time you choose as I believe that you did just a couple of days ago.

Thank you, that is all i need to know and ever did need to know from RIZK. It is exactly because i might wish to play at your site that after 2 account closures i needed the reassurance.You have given it,that is fine
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
@Mac72

I disagree that your initial post was straightforward. The title is not clear, and you should have summarized the chat script. Personally, I eschew reading chat transcripts unless they read like this.
https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2009/

A word of advice, when posting complaints be very concise and to the point. The people who are assigned these complaints - to include myself and Max (when they are submitted) have only a certain amount of time to get through them. If you want to have a conversations about something, that's fine, but when you want something to get done, you need to be focused. No one mentioned anything to me about casino reps not logging in until yesterday - after this thread was three weeks old.
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
n ireland
@Mac72

I disagree that your initial post was straightforward. The title is not clear, and you should have summarized the chat script. Personally, I eschew reading chat transcripts unless they read like this.
https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-awards/year-2009/

A word of advice, when posting complaints be very concise and to the point. The people who are assigned these complaints - to include myself and Max (when they are submitted) have only a certain amount of time to get through them. If you want to have a conversations about something, that's fine, but when you want something to get done, you need to be focused. No one mentioned anything to me about casino reps not logging in until yesterday - after this thread was three weeks old.

The best of it is Brian it wasn't even supposed to really be about GUTS/BETSPIN/RIZK , it was supposed to be about the abundance of linked sites now and how anyone is supposed to make sense of it all and i was just trying to lay out clearly one issue i had as an example but in the context of the wider issue which i thought would be the focus of the discussion.
There are issues all over the forum re linked properties and its just all becoming too much like hard work trying to decipher who your playing with.
 

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