This Is Vegas Owe Me 80,000 USD

[TopAff]

Thats true.

I think this is really complicated thing for TIV.

I hope Bryan and Max will sort this out.

 

[Tengil]

And charge back isnt theft.
Plus 4 digit sums and 80k is something you cant even remotely compare.

It was quite clear from the beginning that TiV wont pay, especially knowing what kind of ethics the owner has and the size of the win.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The ball is in their court, but I doubt you'll see anything out of this. They have pegged you as a fraudster. They have linked your machine to a charge-back player at another one of their casinos (not TiV). That makes this issue even more complex, right?

This is what needs to be cleared up. This contradicts the denial the OP made of having any knowledge of these other chargebacks. Who else had access to the same computer between those dates?

The tale also seems to take place in both China and Australia, yet involves the same MACHINE.

The Rival rep over at the other forum has done the brand no favours with his answers (especially the deliberately evasive ones) on other odd issues that have been mentioned, such as players being booted, and then PURELY BY COINCIDENCE this happening at the exact same time that Rival enacted a request to remove the slot "Scary Rich" from the casino.

Rival Rep pleads "trust me - it's pure coincidence", yet this is far LESS believable a coincidence than the claims made by players under investigation for fraud where the casinos' evidence is similarly explained away as an "unfortunate coincidence" rather than proof of fraud.

This case also reveals that there IS quite a connection between the independent SlotoCash, and the stable of Rival White label casinos. TIV have made their determinations based on what happened at Sloto, yet have reached a DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION of these events than that reached by VIP managers at Sloto itself. How on EARTH does TIV know MORE about this matter than SLOTO, where it happened.

The complainant came to the casino through a site owned by a "bent" affiliate, but so what. Affiliates, "bent" or otherwise, have sites freely available to anyone on the Internet (except perhaps the Chinese using Google). The fact that a player came from an affiliate who was later found to be in breach of the terms does NOT mean the PLAYER is necessarily involved in the same fraud.

Leaving aside the machine match, just HOW could an Australian citizen pull off a 10K fraud using a CHINESE credit card, despite having no visa nor work permit for China, nor the right to a bank account there.

Whilst China is known for high tech fraud, this tends to involve the use of stolen identities gathered from outside China to perpetuate fraud from WITHIN China. More likely is that the OP has had their personal data stolen, and it has been used fraudulently from within China to defraud casinos.

This may seem an unlikely defence, yet we are expected to believe the Rival rep who offered an explanation for a player getting booted whilst playing Scary Rich, logging straight back in to find the slot gone, as a coincidence of two UNRELATED events just happening at the exact same time so as to give the impression that they were connected by cause & effect.

Eg.

1) Unrelated general internet issue causes player to be disconnected from the casino whilst playing the slot.

2) Purely by coincidence, at the EXACT same time Rival act upon a request to remove this game from said casino, which all takes place during the EXACT window between the player getting "booted", and managing to reconnect.

If that's nothing more than coincidence, then PAY the OP.

I believe however that it is NOT. I think that what happened is that the player was DELIBERATELY booted from the casino BECAUSE the game Scary Rich needed to be removed, and this required the forcible ending of all active sessions in order to make the configuration changes.
This was NOT simply a change of offering, this was a change done IN A PANIC SITUATION, perhaps because the player was winning "out of control" on that slot at the time, and the casino panicked that it was out of it's depth and could not afford the player to win any more.

Other actions taken by Rival operators seem to have in common a fear that a slot, or subset of slots, are "out of control" and paying out more than the casino can cover in a short space of time. Is it any wonder therefore that players are deeply suspicious about Rival software and it's operators.

If there is no "fire", where is all this "smoke" coming from?

After first claiming such a thing was "impossible" in general terms, the Rival rep had to do a partial U turn when Kasino King said it was HE that had a similar experience, that of being booted from a slot during play, and finding that this was done to him in order to change his PERSONAL limits. This is a grudging admission that Rival operators ARE indeed free to monitor individual players, and "mess" with their betting limits by forcing termination of their session in order to effect the changes, and the Rep says this is OK and consistent with previous assurances, because this does NOT affect the RTP of the game. Before this, he answered KK's question by merely stating that individual operators could not change the RTP of the slots, which was NOT the question actually being asked.

 

[Rusty]

Lesson to be learned from this for everyone:

NEVER CHARGE BACK

That is all.

Never play at Rival is a better lesson don't you think?
After all the charge backs were at another Casino that is quite happy the player is legitimate and as far as I know the player did not make those initial charge backs anyway.

Personally I have never made a chargeback and I don't think other people should unless they have legitimate winnings denied and/or their deposits stolen.
To try and shift the blame away from Rival for not paying this player though is a bit rich.

As for the software manipulation accusation I believe Bryan is either saying his trusted source lied to him or he just can not prove software manipulation takes place.
Unless Bryan states otherwise I will assume it is the latter which could still very well mean Rival software can be and is manipulated.
Another reason to stay away in my view.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Never play at Rival is a better lesson don't you think?
After all the charge backs were at another Casino that is quite happy the player is legitimate and as far as I know the player did not make those initial charge backs anyway.

This is the problem, chargebacks were made, but the OP claims these were nothing to do with him, and presents a good argument to support this in that he could never even be in a position to commit this action. The major flaw in the OPs story is the "exact machine match" evidence presented by Rival. Show this to be wrong, and Rival have a considerably weakened case for ANY connection between the 10K Chinese chargeback & the OP.

On the other hand, PROVE an exact machine match, yet completely different personal details on the account, and there is good evidence of a single machine being used for fraud, particularly if subsequent to the chargebacks, the OP somehow gets his PC back from the Chinese fraud ring.

 

[KasinoKing]

I think this is really complicated thing for TIV.
I hope Bryan and Max will sort this out.

Looks to me like they have already made their conclusions:

... but the bottom line is the player didn't do anything wrong at TiV.
...
TiV should have never accepted this player's deposits, but they did.
He did not break the terms and conditions of TiV.
Whether he was fraudulent or not at other casinos is irrelevant.

Looks totally black & white to me: The casino is in the wrong and should pay the player.
If they don't, This is Vegas must be rogued.

I just wish some people would stop tarring ALL Rivals with the same brush; they are NOT all run by the same people.

KK

 

[all4greed]

What's up with some of the Rival casino managers and their pathetic excuses lately?

You played legitimately here but did this bad thing at another casino
You are a known bonus abuser that took a bonus and won
You are part of a gambling syndicate

And on and on it goes.

 

[deucebag]

I just wish some people would stop tarring ALL Rivals with the same brush; they are NOT all run by the same people.

All the so-called "white labels" are owned and operated by Silverstone Overseas Limited, which in turn is owned by Bonne Chance NV. So even though individual casinos are managed by different people, Silverstone Overseas Ltd/Bonne Chance NV is ultimately responsible.

"Tarring" every Rival white label with same brush is not unreasonable at all. If TiV does not pay a legitimate winner, then all Rival white labels are rogue. They are owned and operated by the same company.

 

[thelawnet]

All the so-called "white labels" are owned and operated by Silverstone Overseas Limited, which in turn is owned by Bonne Chance NV. So even though individual casinos are managed by different people, Silverstone Overseas Ltd/Bonne Chance NV is ultimately responsible.

"Tarring" every Rival white label with same brush is not unreasonable at all.

It might seem that way if you were promoting them on your website.

 

[Rusty]

This is the problem, chargebacks were made, but the OP claims these were nothing to do with him, and presents a good argument to support this in that he could never even be in a position to commit this action. The major flaw in the OPs story is the "exact machine match" evidence presented by Rival. Show this to be wrong, and Rival have a considerably weakened case for ANY connection between the 10K Chinese chargeback & the OP.

On the other hand, PROVE an exact machine match, yet completely different personal details on the account, and there is good evidence of a single machine being used for fraud, particularly if subsequent to the chargebacks, the OP somehow gets his PC back from the Chinese fraud ring.

My understanding of this was that the chargebacks were made at Slotto (I think) but it was all sorted out to both parties satisfaction.

If they were made at another Rival and the OP deposited before any resolution then I would see things a little differently _ I certainly understand how casinos need to protect themselves from fraudsters.
However, I agree with Bryan and KK that if this were the case TIV should never of accepted the deposit much less pulled all the other stunts that followed.

 

[Nifty29]

Looks to me like they have already made their conclusions:

Looks totally black & white to me: The casino is in the wrong and should pay the player.
If they don't, This is Vegas must be rogued.

I just wish some people would stop tarring ALL Rivals with the same brush; they are NOT all run by the same people.

KK

....and yet, after this debacle and despite past indiscretions, you continue to promote them (along with slots of fortune and other questionable operators)

I've always respected your views over the years but when it comes to discussions about Rival your business association with them is severely clouding your judgment IMO.

It's nothing personal, it's just something that has been going on for a while and needed to be mentioned, for the benefit of those who rely on this forum for advice at the very least.

 

[all4greed]

....and yet, after this debacle and despite past indiscretions, you continue to promote them (along with slots of fortune and other questionable operators)

I don't see how anyone could promote SOF now knowing about what happened and reading the responses from the rep on that SOF thread.

 

[maxd]

Read 'em and weep: ThisIsVegas Casino - Rogue.

 

[KasinoKing]

....and yet, after this debacle and despite past indiscretions, you continue to promote them (along with slots of fortune and other questionable operators)

I've always respected your views over the years but when it comes to discussions about Rival your business association with them is severely clouding your judgment IMO.

It's nothing personal, it's just something that has been going on for a while and needed to be mentioned, for the benefit of those who rely on this forum for advice at the very least.

Promote who - This is Vegas?
If that's who you are referring to - I have taken all their banners & links off all my sites (to the best of my knowledge - I might have missed one or two).

I do appreciate the general sentiment of your post though, and you may have noticed I created a new website last month specifically to address the good and bad Rival casino conundrum. I was waiting for the final outcome of the SoF issue, which right now does not look good - I agree. It's a shame the OP was not allowed to PAB because I would like to hear CM's official decision on it. As of right now though, he has not rogued the casino. However, I will now move them to "Not recommended" on my site.

KK

 

[Casinomeister]

... I agree. It's a shame the OP was not allowed to PAB because I would like to hear CM's official decision on it. As of right now though, he has not rogued the casino. However, I will now move them to "Not recommended" on my site...

Actually, I haven't gotten around to that one yet. I can still make an assessment without a PAB though

 

[Pinababy69]

It's a shame the OP was not allowed to PAB because I would like to hear CM's official decision on it. As of right now though, he has not rogued the casino. However, I will now move them to "Not recommended" on my site.

KK

Well, seeing as he has now put all the Rival white labels back into the rogue pit (in the Not Recommended section).....I'd say that's his feeling on it. And not a moment too soon. I'm still undecided as to who is worse....Rival or Topgame. Six of one, half a dozen of another I'd say. They're all shit.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Well, seeing as he has now put all the Rival white labels back into the rogue pit (in the Not Recommended section).....I'd say that's his feeling on it. And not a moment too soon.

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[TopAff]

I am happy that scammers like This Is Vegas will be rogued.

I think owner of This Is Vegas will rebrand his casino as soon as he can.

This is sad, but this is how business works.

 

[zanzibar]

What about Rockbet, Vegas Days, and Slots Jackpot casinos? Same owner / manager.

 

[maxd]

What about Rockbet, Vegas Days, and Slots Jackpot....

All of those were included in the recent blacklisting, no? See Rival Casinos - White Labels.

Rockbet has been separately Rogued/Not Recommended for some time: https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

 

[gid88]

Read 'em and weep: ThisIsVegas Casino - Rogue.

Wohoooooooo...

 

[petro]

@CasinoKing
"I VERY seriously doubt there is someone sitting there in the casino tracking what players are doing. I think it's much more likely to be some automated system, though why it let me do any big spins at all does cast some uncertainty on that..."

Playing in a Microgaming Casino awhile back I won somewhere between 2-3 thousand, a chat dialog suddenly opened up on my screen with a live help agent congratulating me.
In some casinos they do monitor whats going on closely.

 

[aceking123]

@CasinoKing
"I VERY seriously doubt there is someone sitting there in the casino tracking what players are doing. I think it's much more likely to be some automated system, though why it let me do any big spins at all does cast some uncertainty on that..."

Playing in a Microgaming Casino awhile back I won somewhere between 2-3 thousand, a chat dialog suddenly opened up on my screen with a live help agent congratulating me.
In some casinos the do monitor whats going on closely.

i realy dont think i would be to happy to find some agent person watching & then popping up in my game i won to say congrats ,they should save that untill youve cashed out , then you both know youve won )

 

[colly]

i realy dont think i would be to happy to find some agent person watching & then popping up in my game i won to say congrats ,they should save that untill youve cashed out , then you both know youve won )

I agree I would find that a little disconcerting.

It is also annoying when they pop in in the middle of a game to offer you bonuses.

Had a very strange experience at a microgaming the other week where an operator came onto chat and asked if I would like to know which games had been paying out!

Cheers

 

[nisosbar]

Meanwhile, a player on RiverBelle posted a winning screenshot of $80,000 on 10-hand video poker (natural royal, $100 max bet), and he says the casino is working with him to get him his money.

Am I the only one who wishes I could play on RiverBelle? LOL