This Is Vegas Owe Me 80,000 USD

[Casinomeister]

Actually, he was waiting for me.

This is a convoluted and complicated issue. It's not as simple as it may seem. I have additional information that I'm reviewing at the moment.

 

[Nifty29]

FYI whilst waiting for CM it is worth reading the link provided earlier in this thread to the other forum, as there is a lot more info there including replies from TIV themselves (in which they claim they are blocked from posting at CM - seems a bit odd but n e way.)

It does show a different side of both the issue and the OP IMO.

 

[maxd]

... they claim they are blocked from posting at CM

Hmmm, read it over, didn't see that. I believe they've said they're withholding comment until CM has done his thing with the PAB material they sent to us but that's not really the same thing as "blocked from posting".

Maybe I missed something somewhere but as I read it they're basically just respecting the PAB "no post" policy which is a good thing.

It does show a different side of both the issue and the OP IMO.

True dat, it does flesh the story out a bit, or at least brings the circumstances of the disagreement into sharper focus.

 

[Nifty29]

Hmmm, read it over, didn't see that. I believe they've said they're withholding comment until CM has done his thing with the PAB material they sent to us but that's not really the same thing as "blocked from posting".

Maybe I missed something somewhere but as I read it they're basically just respecting the PAB "no post" policy which is a good thing.



True dat, it does flesh the story out a bit, or at least brings the circumstances of the disagreement into sharper focus.

Its possible I could have read it wrong:

The player had 5 figure chargebacks at another Rival casino. The player also referred themselves through their affiliate site which was using stolen credit cards to run fraudulent activity through the website.

Fraudulent activity and identity theft will not be tolerated at the casino and this player and affiliate is banned permanently at Rival casinos.

The PAB is being handled at Casino Meister

No posts are made at Casino Meister because the casino does not have posting rights

Other affiliate programs will be notified about this fraudulent affiliate

It wasn't worded very well, but you could be right Max.

All those interested and dont want to search for the link it is:

Old / Expired Link

(Hope this is OK Max)

 

[maxd]

Actually it's good you posted that because I had been reading the thread at AGD. My bad.

As far as their statement goes, "No posts are made at Casino Meister because the casino does not have posting rights", it's hard to imagine what they mean. There are two TIV accounts here at CM, thisisvegasLina and sashavegas, both of which have been accessed in the last few months and both with full posting rights as far as I can see. In fact the Lina account posted around the time they created the account: Lina @ This is Vegas!.

Perhaps they meant something else?

 

[Rusty]

Actually it's good you posted that because I had been reading the thread at AGD. My bad.

As far as their statement goes, "No posts are made at Casino Meister because the casino does not have posting rights", it's hard to imagine what they mean. There are two TIV accounts here at CM, thisisvegasLina and sashavegas, both of which have been accessed in the last few months and both with full posting rights as far as I can see. In fact the Lina account posted around the time they created the account: Lina @ This is Vegas!.

Perhaps they meant something else?

If they did, they meant something else all three times they posted that information.
Perhaps they meant "We do have full posting rights at CM"

No revelations at the other forums so I'm looking forward to reading what Bryan has to say.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Bryan, can you say who logged in y-day to the forum using the account name "thisisvegas"? Of course, this was John's before he switched to another account name for sure (RBJ) and possibly another thereafter, all in good standing at the time. I realize "thisisvegas" is currently a dormant account and have no clue of what can be accessed on the forum as a dormant account. Nevertheless, would like to know who accessed the account y-day if possible and kosher!

Actually it's good you posted that because I had been reading the thread at AGD. My bad.

As far as their statement goes, "No posts are made at Casino Meister because the casino does not have posting rights", it's hard to imagine what they mean. There are two TIV accounts here at CM, thisisvegasLina and sashavegas, both of which have been accessed in the last few months and both with full posting rights as far as I can see. In fact the Lina account posted around the time they created the account: Lina @ This is Vegas!.

Perhaps they meant something else?

FWIW, per my quote from 9-8-2010 above and Max's above, there may be 3 TIV accounts at CM. As my prior post states "I realize "thisisvegas" is currently a dormant account and have no clue of what can be accessed on the forum as a dormant account." That said someone was logged in under the subject account name for more than just a couple minutes on 9-7-2010

 

[maxd]

Good point. I was just referring to accounts currently listed on the Representatives page. AFAICT the complete list looks like this:

• thisisvegas ([strike]Dormant[/strike]), joined: 18th October 2007, last online: 9th September 2010, 144 posts
• ThisisvegasDave (Dormant), joined: 23rd February 2008, last online: 16th May 2008, 11 posts
• thisisvegasLina, joined: 24th May 2009, last online: 30th June 2010, 1 post
• sashavegas, joined: 9th September 2010, last online: 9th September 2010, 0 posts

There may be others but these ones are using official TIV email addresses.

As you can see, not bad for a casino that "doesn't have access" to the forums.

 

[Casinomeister]

Good point. I was just referring to accounts currently listed on the Representatives page. AFAICT the complete list looks like this:

• thisisvegas (Dormant), joined: 18th October 2007, last online: 9th September 2010, 144 posts
• ThisisvegasDave (Dormant), joined: 23rd February 2008, last online: 16th May 2008, 11 posts
• thisisvegasLina, joined: 24th May 2009, last online: 30th June 2010, 1 post
• sashavegas, joined: 9th September 2010, last online: 9th September 2010, 0 posts

There may be others but these ones are using official TIV email addresses.

As you can see, not bad for a casino that "doesn't have access" to the forums.

I've removed "thisisvegas" from a dormant state - it has full access now.

When your account is dormant, it can only see the announcements - not much else. And you are greeted with a "your account is dormant" message which suggest you need to contact a moderator (or me) to have it re-instated.

 

[4 of a kind]

Not putting aside the OP getting screwed here, but in reference to the comments above about possible internal casino manipulation, whatever was the outcome of your investigation Bryan?

That long day you mentioned above turned into 41 long days so far, and no elaboration on these very serious allegations. Internal casino manipulation would be a much more serious offense then the everyday commonly used tactic of just screwing the player out of a cash out. Even if that cash out involved 80K.....

Going on two months? (55 days today)

Bryan, could you at least elaborate on the avenues you are pursuing that are delaying the results of your investigation? It has become obvious that if the online gambler needs help or answers (especially with such serious accusations) you are our only source with at least a chance for results. With that being said, I also would understand if your unable to expose your personal, secretive, internal connections.

Regardless these are very serious accusations that need answers. Many if not all here are waiting for results. What's up with that???

 

[maxd]

Bryan, could you at least elaborate on the avenues you are pursuing ... With that being said, I also would understand if your unable to expose your personal, secretive, internal connections.

I've worked with Bryan on this one and I can tell you that it would be inappropriate and possibly damaging to the player's case to discuss those details here. It is an active issue, Bryan has consulted a number of people and those efforts are ongoing. Sorry to be the stick here but that's probably going to have to suffice for the time being insofar as a public disclosure of the details of the case.

FWIW 55 days is not unusual when it comes to a case of this magnitude and complexity. Big dollar cases almost always take longer to settle and a couple of months is a comparatively modest amount of time for them to be "in progress". Given the details and complexity of this case it's no surprise at all.

 

[Casinomeister]

Thanks for everyone's patience on this. gid88's issue is a complex one, and one that I have spent a great deal of time on. I'm not going to go into great depths of detail here - so I'll pretty much cut to the chase.

The player was a VIP player at Slotocash - there were charge-backs made on his account and after a period of time, he was cleared - good to go and invited to continue playing.

During this time, the player opened a TIV account and played - this is where he won a substantial amount of money. His account was locked and his winnings denied because of the charge-backs.

Rival has been more than cooperative in explaining their suspicions of this player - that he is a potential fraudster, that he plays in concert with other players, that he is associated with a banned affiliate. These may be something that should be reckoned with - but the bottom line is the player didn't do anything wrong at TiV.

If a casino is going to act on a player's history at other casinos before they play at theirs, then a casino should be verifying a player BEFORE they play. Once they have accepted a deposit then they have accepted the player and are effectively starting from a clean slate.

That said, if a casino is going to hold players accountable for past activity at other casinos, then their T&C's should state that. If TiV's T&C's don't then IMO, tough. They accepted the player's money which indicates that he's "good to go". If he acts fraudulently on said casino AFTER that then fair enough, there is a case for refusing winnings.

TiV should have never accepted this player's deposits, but they did. He did not break the terms and conditions of TiV. Whether he was fraudulent or not at other casinos is irrelevant.

 

[gid88]

Thanks for the update CM. I won't respond to the unfounded allegations that Rival have made i.e. "that he is a potential fraudster, that he plays in concert with other players, that he is associated with a banned affiliate"

What I wold like to know is whether the investigation is still "live" and are you still corresponding with TIV and Rival..and do you think a resolution can be reached ?

 

[mattsgame]

Thanks for everyone's patience on this. gid88's issue is a complex one, and one that I have spent a great deal of time on. I'm not going to go into great depths of detail here - so I'll pretty much cut to the chase.

The player was a VIP player at Slotocash - there were charge-backs made on his account and after a period of time, he was cleared - good to go and invited to continue playing.

During this time, the player opened a TIV account and played - this is where he won a substantial amount of money. His account was locked and his winnings denied because of the charge-backs.

Rival has been more than cooperative in explaining their suspicions of this player - that he is a potential fraudster, that he plays in concert with other players, that he is associated with a banned affiliate. These may be something that should be reckoned with - but the bottom line is the player didn't do anything wrong at TiV.

If a casino is going to act on a player's history at other casinos before they play at theirs, then a casino should be verifying a player BEFORE they play. Once they have accepted a deposit then they have accepted the player and are effectively starting from a clean slate.

That said, if a casino is going to hold players accountable for past activity at other casinos, then their T&C's should state that. If TiV's T&C's don't then IMO, tough. They accepted the player's money which indicates that he's "good to go". If he acts fraudulently on said casino AFTER that then fair enough, there is a case for refusing winnings.

TiV should have never accepted this player's deposits, but they did. He did not break the terms and conditions of TiV. Whether he was fraudulent or not at other casinos is irrelevant.

Completely agree with everything. If no t&c's where broken then pay the player.

Can I assume from what I just read that TIV is not budging and will not pay the player? even though he has not done anything wrong,or is this still on going?

Cheers
Matt

 

[maxd]

I don't believe there has been a statement or reaction back from TiV as yet.

 

[Casinomeister]

Thanks for the update CM. I won't respond to the unfounded allegations that Rival have made i.e. "that he is a potential fraudster, that he plays in concert with other players, that he is associated with a banned affiliate"

What I wold like to know is whether the investigation is still "live" and are you still corresponding with TIV and Rival..and do you think a resolution can be reached ?

The ball is in their court, but I doubt you'll see anything out of this. They have pegged you as a fraudster. They have linked your machine to a charge-back player at another one of their casinos (not TiV). That makes this issue even more complex, right?

 

[gid88]

Well, not really..and even if it is true (i'm not saying that it is), how is it relevant ? As you said, the fact is, I played within the T&C's at TIV.

Wouldn't Rival have banned me at all casinos (as they just recently notified me that I now am - post PAB), preventing any further fraudulent activity ?

Or are fraudulent players most welcome, until of course they win ?

 

[4 of a kind]

The OP PMd me some of what he has, and I can clearly state that I know this "ex-employee" and would trust what this person is saying.

What ever became of this ex-employee making comments about internal software manipulation?

 

[nisosbar]

Thank you, Bryan.

 

[gid88]

Well, not really..and even if it is true (i'm not saying that it is), how is it relevant ? As you said, the fact is, I played within the T&C's at TIV.

Wouldn't Rival have banned me at all casinos (as they just recently notified me that I now am - post PAB), preventing any further fraudulent activity ?

Or are fraudulent players most welcome, until of course they win ?

Apologies, i was venting. For TIV and Rival to just walk away from this is pi##ing me off.

 

[Casinomeister]

What ever became of this ex-employee making comments about internal software manipulation?

Sorry, I thought I mentioned later that I was looking at the statements concerning gid88's issue. And this became a little convoluted since one was a disgruntled ex-employee and the other (who I thought was an ex-employee) was the person I am familiar with.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/this-is-vegas-owe-me-80-000-usd.39753/

The bottom line is - as far as I know, there is no internal software manipulation.

 

[Nifty29]

Lesson to be learned from this for everyone:

NEVER CHARGE BACK

That is all.

 

[gid88]

thanks mate.

 

[TopAff]

about Rival, I cashed out from Vegas Regal Casino xxxx,xx and got 1st part already, I think if you are legimate player you will get paid. Go to yourself and think a little bit about charge backing.
I have never done chargeback or anything.
Rival pays me always on 2-3 business day with NO PROBLEMS.

 

[Pulver]

about Rival, I cashed out from Vegas Regal Casino xxxx,xx and got 1st part already, I think if you are legimate player you will get paid. Go to yourself and think a little bit about charge backing.
I have never done chargeback or anything.
Rival pays me always on 2-3 business day with NO PROBLEMS.

So what you are saying is that if you stole from store X, lets say 5 years ago, it is OK for store Y to confiscate the groceries you bought fair and square today, because you "have a history of theft" at store X.