Resolved Rushmore- sucky rule to confiscate funds

[elscrabinda]

I remembered a couple of days ago that i had a Rushmore account from a while back and tried to log on. I vaguely remembered some problem with fax back forms etc (probably my laziness) meaning i hadn't withdrawn and so I was expecting to see a healthy balance in there (1 or 2 thousand). Instead I got an error message saying that i'm not allowed to log in. I emailed and was told that after 180 days accounts are closed. Fine, I thought- what happens to my money? Apparently its "forfeited to the company".

Sure enough- its in their terms, so they can do what they like, but imo it is a nonsense rule which serves no purpose but to give them an excuse to confiscate money. Particularly as I received no warning before it happened, no "where have you been?" courtesy email, just a nasty taste in my mouth.

 

[Nifty29]

Well it is, as you say, in their terms which you accept when you register so the casino is not at fault here.

Given you left "1 or 2 thousand" for over 6 months Im figuring you don't/did'nt need it, so you'll just have to write this one off unfortunately.

You will find almost all casinos have this term or one very similar.

 

[chuchu59]

That's rogue behavior. They can close accounts if they like as per their terms but the money must be returned either to your original depositing method and if it's not possible to a withdrawal method agreed by both parties minus processing fees.

Press on with it. Dont let them get away with your money. Send a mail to them asking for your money together with your faxback forms (dont be lazy this time). Remember, they dont have the right to confiscate your funds though they can stop you from playing.

 

[Louise]

Hi all,

This players account was last logged in to back in December 2008.

As stated in our terms and conditions:

xxxwww.rushmoreonline.com/TermsAndConditions

Rushmore Casino reserves the right, in its total discretion, to void any winnings and withhold any balance in Rushmore Casino account under any of the following circumstances: If you do not log onto your Casino account for a period of 180 days, any balance in your account will be forfeited to the Company.

Kind regards,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.

 

[chuchu59]

Things are done for a reason. The terms should also be there for a reason. If you had incurred costs for maintaining the account deduct maintenance fees from his balance by all means. However, this is not the way to behave for a proper casino. What detriment is there to you that renders you to take the action of confiscating funds. None. Simply because someone forgets that he/she still had a balance in the account does not mean you can gobble the money. I am sorry but imo this is pure rogue behavior. Whether this is in the terms or not will not alter that fact.

 

[classymom]

I understand its in the terms - but couldnt an email at least be sent as a courtesy to alert customer they were close to losing their balance.

 

[LaurieJim]

I understand its in the terms - but couldnt an email at least be sent as a courtesy to alert customer they were close to losing their balance.

I agree, that would be within reason , people sometimes forget, i know i have and went back after a year and my money was still there, i think an email would be better on the casinos part,its better to get an old player coming back than to piss one off and take his money...............laurie

 

[elscrabinda]

You will find almost all casinos have this term or one very similar.

Whether thats true or not (I don't think it is) i've not heard of any enforcing it. Its certainly true that almost all casinos have a "we reserve the right to do anything we like" clause, but i'm sure you agree that that should not be used as an excuse by reputable casinos to justify disreputable behaviour. I'm not accusing Rushmore of doing anything criminal, I'm just saying that this kind of behaviour in my opinion is not the hallmark of a reputable casino.

 

[Mouche12]

In consumer matters, a term may be deemed excessive or unreasonable. IMO, this is definitely the case here since, as stated above, it is only fair to deduct any costs that were made in holding the customer's account. I believe Party Casino does this for inactive accounts holding a balance, which is actually a small amount, and they inform their customers of doing so. Closing an account due to inactivity is of course alright, but it is the confiscation of funds that is all wrong. The term to which Rushmore applies must be deemed unreasonable, and I think it can be successfully contested before a court of law. I hope MaxD (PAB) can sort it out for you.

 

[Casinomeister]

In consumer matters, a term may be deemed excessive or unreasonable. IMO, this is definitely the case here since, as stated above, no costs were made in holding the customer's account. Even if this were the case, those costs may be deducted from the customer's balance due to inactivity (I believe Party Casino does this for inactive accounts holding a balance, which is actually a small amount). Closing an account due to inactivity is of course alright, but it is the confiscation of funds that is all wrong. The term to which Rushmore applies must be deemed unreasonable, and I think it can be successfully contested before a court of law. I hope MaxD (PAB) can sort it out for you.

Well, we're not lawyers - never claimed to be, and this is a common term that's posted in most terms and conditions. Hell, the casinos licensed in Malta turn the winnings over to the LGA after 180 days

When you sign up at an online casino, you agreed to the terms. It's your responsibility to abide by them whether you think they are fair or not. If you don't like them - don't sign up. It's pretty simple.

 

[silcnlayc]

Costs

no costs were made in holding the customer's account

There are costs involved in maintaining an opened account. Just as most bank charges monthly fees, it takes manpower to reconcile their ledgers and find where it is not balancing out, when there is money "floating" around for many months, and when no activity is made in the account, it becomes a writeoff.

I agree there should be an email saying something to the effect of confiscations for inactivity within x amount of days, but it is in their T&C
's.

Let me say this, I do not agree with the policy, but it is in writing.

.

 

[Mouche12]

Well, we're not lawyers - never claimed to be, and this is a common term that's posted in most terms and conditions. Hell, the casinos licensed in Malta turn the winnings over to the LGA after 180 days

When you sign up at an online casino, you agreed to the terms. It's your responsibility to abide by them whether you think they are fair or not. If you don't like them - don't sign up. It's pretty simple.

True, just a paralegal, but based on what I have seen at international law firms in the field of consumer law, I believe this is definitely an unreasonable term that can be contested successfully. The principle of fairness and reasonableness is an important legal principle and it definitely applies in this case. Seek legal assistance.

 

[elscrabinda]

Well, we're not lawyers - never claimed to be, and this is a common term that's posted in most terms and conditions. Hell, the casinos licensed in Malta turn the winnings over to the LGA after 180 days

When you sign up at an online casino, you agreed to the terms. It's your responsibility to abide by them whether you think they are fair or not. If you don't like them - don't sign up. It's pretty simple.

Almost every casino has the "we reserve the right" clause. Using your logic noone then has any grounds for complaint about anything a casino does as they have "agreed to the terms". Being accredited here should, in my opinion, mean that players can expect that though such terms exist, they will only be enforced with good reason, fairly, and not solely used as an excuse for confiscating balances. Unless Louise/Rushmore can come up with a better reason than "we're allowed to" for doing this I will continue to consider it unjustified

 

[Casinomeister]

One thing everyone needs to remember - these are winnings, right? Not the actual funds that the player deposited - so in other words, the player is not out of pocket.

I would consider this unfair if the casino wiped the account clean and included deposited funds, but from what I can tell, this didn't happen.

 

[jas2587]

all tho I dont agree with the taking all of the cash closing the account either

it has been 10 months that the account was doormat
dead no 1 logging in

maybe if you had a unexplained illness that lasted 10 months
or family illness that prevented you from playing it would
make more sense

it made up my mind on these casino's tho

Good Luck
Cindy

 

[elscrabinda]

One thing everyone needs to remember - these are winnings, right? Not the actual funds that the player deposited - so in other words, the player is not out of pocket.

I would consider this unfair if the casino wiped the account clean and included deposited funds, but from what I can tell, this didn't happen.

Without wanting to be facetious, how do you end up with "1 or 2 thousand" in your account without depositing? I guess I could have received a no deposit bonus (I didn't) but I'm not sure why you jumped to that kind of conclusion? I honestly can't remember how I won there, chances are there was a bonus involved, but it most definitely included deposit(s).

 

[Casinomeister]

Almost every casino has the "we reserve the right" clause. Using your logic noone then has any grounds for complaint about anything a casino does as they have "agreed to the terms". Being accredited here should, in my opinion, mean that players can expect that though such terms exist, they will only be enforced with good reason, fairly, and not solely used as an excuse for confiscating balances. Unless Louise/Rushmore can come up with a better reason than "we're allowed to" for doing this I will continue to consider it unjustified

Sorry, I disagree. Using my logic - you are bound by their terms and conditions that you agreed to when signing up. Are they obligated to make an exception? If so, why?

You aren't privy to the inner workings of a casino, so making guesses as to why casinos do this is irrelevant. Sure it sucks - but just about every MGS powered casino have similar policies, and I'm pretty sure most Playtech casinos do as well. If you don't like it, then vote with your feet and don't participate with casinos that have policies like this.

From what I can tell, you never gave this casino a chance to look into this and possibly make an exception. Instead of using a bit of tact and discretion by perhaps PABing or contacting the casino rep here, you took it upon yourself to make this a public issue. Not the smartest move IMO.

 

[Casinomeister]

Without wanting to be facetious, how do you end up with "1 or 2 thousand" in your account without depositing? I guess I could have received a no deposit bonus (I didn't) but I'm not sure why you jumped to that kind of conclusion? I honestly can't remember how I won there, chances are there was a bonus involved, but it most definitely included deposit(s).

Okay - I was making an assumption here. I figured that any deposits that were sitting in the account would have been returned and your winnings voided. That's how I read it. Perhaps Louise can let us know what the deal was.

 

[elscrabinda]

Sorry, I disagree. Using my logic - you are bound by their terms and conditions that you agreed to when signing up. Are they obligated to make an exception? If so, why?

You aren't privy to the inner workings of a casino, so making guesses as to why casinos do this is irrelevant. Sure it sucks - but just about every MGS powered casino have similar policies, and I'm pretty sure most Playtech casinos do as well. If you don't like it, then vote with your feet and don't participate with casinos that have policies like this.

From what I can tell, you never gave this casino a chance to look into this and possibly make an exception. Instead of using a bit of tact and discretion by perhaps PABing or contacting the casino rep here, you took it upon yourself to make this a public issue. Not the smartest move IMO.

Maybe I should have mentioned that yes I had contacted Louise here and got a "I can't do anything" response. I didn't PAB, for the very reason that I accept that they are within their rights to do it. I also do not claim that they are "obligated" to do anything.

Making it a public issue is not about being vindictive or trying to get revenge- I just happen to think that a casino that does this kind of thing will also not think twice about other imo unscrupulous behaviour (whether or not their t&cs allow them to) and that other players should be warned about this.

Reputable MG casinos may indeed have the term, I haven't heard of them using it though and that is the difference.

 

[elscrabinda]

I have also criticised in the past the dormancy fees levied by Intercasino- however they at least warn you about them before they are imposed (or at least tell you shortly after so that you can avoid it next time, I can't remember). Here there was no communication and unless it was a completely automated system over which they have no control it seems entirely unfair that they would close the account and confiscate the funds with not so much as a single courtesy email.

 

[Pulver]

One thing everyone needs to remember - these are winnings, right? Not the actual funds that the player deposited - so in other words, the player is not out of pocket.

I would consider this unfair if the casino wiped the account clean and included deposited funds, but from what I can tell, this didn't happen.

Sorry to have to say this Bryan, but with all due respect, I feel what you are saying is nonsense. First regarding your first quote about agreeing to the T&C when you sign up. Do you read every singel word of the terms and conditions when you install a new software program, or do you trust the company not to put unreasonable rules in there? You trust that the likes of Microsoft would not put anything unfair in there. And if they did, you could be shure that there would be a gigantic debacle and probably legal action taken against them. Since online casinos really aren't regulated anywhere, they pretty much do what they like. That does not however make it right in any way.

When I signup to a new casino I check for the important stuff like bonus requriements (If im going to take a bonus) and if my country is eligble for play. That is pretty much it. Have anyone in here actually read every line of every T&C in a casino they have registered at? I think not.

I am really baffled when you say that winnings are not really the players money. When you play at a casino and win, and your withdrawable balance goes up, that is YOUR money, NOT the casinos. How you can claim that the player is not out of pocket is beyond me. Money you can withdraw when you like, is your money, not the casino's money.

In my opinion this is extremly rogue behavior. It is unacceptable that they didn't even send the player a warning notice about their actions. Louise, you can put in your T&C that players not playing in their underwear will have their winnings confiscated and be within your right as the player accepted your T&C, it still doesn't make it right.

jas2587: I forgett about money all the time. I once logged into a sportsbook account I hadn't used for maany months, and lo behold, there where over 200 I had forgott all about.. And I don't even have a illness.. OK, only a slight mental-illness, but thats it..

 

[Casinomeister]

I'm not spewing nonsense - perhaps you are misreading what I wrote. I'm trying to explain that players are responsible for their activity online. Sure we can agree that these terms suck, but they are there. The OP agreed to these when signing up. I'm not defending the casino - I'm trying to point out that players have certain responsibilities - that is not nonsense.

And yes, I do read the general terms and conditions - everyone here should be doing so as well. I'm surprised that any members here would admit that they don't. That's asking for trouble.

I agree that the casino should have contacted the player since this is standard procedure. I'm unsure whether or not this was done since I'm not privy to this.

...winnings are not really the players money. When you play at a casino and win, and your withdrawable balance goes up, that is YOUR money, NOT the casinos. How you can claim that the player is not out of pocket is beyond me. Money you can withdraw when you like, is your money, not the casino's money....

Sure - in spirit, these are his funds, but technically speaking - he's not out of pocket if those funds never hit his bank account.

 

[Louise]

Hi all,

This players account was last logged in to back in December 2008.

As stated in our terms and conditions:

xxxwww.rushmoreonline.com/TermsAndConditions


Quote:
Rushmore Casino reserves the right, in its total discretion, to void any winnings and withhold any balance in Rushmore Casino account under any of the following circumstances: If you do not log onto your Casino account for a period of 180 days, any balance in your account will be forfeited to the Company.

Kind regards,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.

If I may first of all correct myself, the last log in to the player's account was back in October 2007 and not October 2008.

Second of all, the player didn't have deposits sitting there which hadn't been wagered with. The player had wagered at least $100,000 with the last deposit which was made in his account before his account being left unused for 2 years.

Thanks,

Louise
Rushmore, Cherry Red & Slots Oasis Rep.

 

[chuchu59]

Sorry to have to say this Bryan, but with all due respect, I feel what you are saying is nonsense. First regarding your first quote about agreeing to the T&C when you sign up. Do you read every singel word of the terms and conditions when you install a new software program, or do you trust the company not to put unreasonable rules in there? You trust that the likes of Microsoft would not put anything unfair in there. And if they did, you could be shure that there would be a gigantic debacle and probably legal action taken against them. Since online casinos really aren't regulated anywhere, they pretty much do what they like. That does not however make it right in any way.

When I signup to a new casino I check for the important stuff like bonus requriements (If im going to take a bonus) and if my country is eligble for play. That is pretty much it. Have anyone in here actually read every line of every T&C in a casino they have registered at? I think not.

I am really baffled when you say that winnings are not really the players money. When you play at a casino and win, and your withdrawable balance goes up, that is YOUR money, NOT the casinos. How you can claim that the player is not out of pocket is beyond me. Money you can withdraw when you like, is your money, not the casino's money.

In my opinion this is extremly rouge behavior. It is unacceptable that they didn't even send the player a warning notice about their actions. Louise, you can put in your T&C that players not playing in their underwear will have their winnings confiscated and be within your right as the player accepted your T&C, it still doesn't make it right.

jas2587: I forgett about money all the time. I once logged into a sportsbook account I hadn't used for maany months, and lo behold, there where over 200 I had forgott all about.. And I don't even have a illness.. OK, only a slight mental-illness, but thats it..

Agree with everything except the word "rouge"

 

[Pulver]

Why did you not contact him about his funds before you closed the account and confiscated the money?