InterCasino Incident - What is your opinion? (warning: REALLY long)

[Scooter7]

Sorry, call me ignorant or inexperienced, but I think that Intercasino should have paid out the 25K, its obvious that OP is a big whale and would not suddenly change his coin size from 5 to 0.05. Intercasino also admitted as much by offering him a 5,000 bonus (no deposit I understand). I also understand from OP's story that there were quite a few frozen games, and although I do recognize that OP was not too bright anymore because of some drinks, this is quite a nuisance, and even more so if you bet such high amounts. OP's story may be a bit too long, but IMHO OP does have a point here.

I won't call you either ignorant or inexperienced, but the responsibility for clicking the deal button is 100% with the player. Whether InterCasino gives him 1.00 or 1,000,000, there is no admission of wrongdoing on the part of the casino nor should there be. OP and I disagree about the way default bets are handled when launching a game, but that point aside, I'm sure he would agree that a player's actions are his own responsibility even to the point of discontinuing play if the interface and functionality are not to his liking.

As I posted previously, with this player's expected turnover and theoretical loss per month, coughing up 20k to him would have about a one month payback period, making it a smart investment with good ROI. Unfortunately, the casino (based on their own evaluation) offered bonuses that the player didn't really want instead of cash. This, combined with the CSR trying to make the bonuses sound like a huge favour aggravated the player, who exercised his right to stop playing at their casino.

I would approach the player and ask him a) what would it take to get you back to the casino? and b) if we make you happy, would you like to be an affiliate and develop a working relationship with us, bringing in more players who are just like you?

 

[Mouche12]

I won't call you either ignorant or inexperienced, but the responsibility for clicking the deal button is 100% with the player. Whether InterCasino gives him 1.00 or 1,000,000, there is no admission of wrongdoing on the part of the casino nor should there be. OP and I disagree about the way default bets are handled when launching a game, but that point aside, I'm sure he would agree that a player's actions are his own responsibility even to the point of discontinuing play if the interface and functionality are not to his liking.

As I posted previously, with this player's expected turnover and theoretical loss per month, coughing up 20k to him would have about a one month payback period, making it a smart investment with good ROI. Unfortunately, the casino (based on their own evaluation) offered bonuses that the player didn't really want instead of cash. This, combined with the CSR trying to make the bonuses sound like a huge favour aggravated the player, who exercised his right to stop playing at their casino.

I would approach the player and ask him a) what would it take to get you back to the casino? and b) if we make you happy, would you like to be an affiliate and develop a working relationship with us, bringing in more players who are just like you?

You have a point there Scooter, but still I understand that because of frequent game freezes, the coin size was automatically reset at 0.05. As mentioned in one of (your?) previous posts, this may be considered manipulative to the player and in this case, it was surely very disadvantageous to the player. Those 2 issues do deserve further investigation by a lawyer, I think.

 

[Rusty]

Obviously JHV's "posting style" has caused a little upset and I must admit at first I had a natural dislike for him but since then his posts have generally been more considered and he has shown a good deal humility and humour at times.

The PAB comment was disrespectful in some ways though my instinct is that Max was baiting him some.

The thread was an interesting read but there is no real complaint here other than the Casino acted foolishly and treated the OP in a disrespectful and patronising manner and I think that has all been pretty well covered.

 

[Scooter7]

As mentioned in one of (your?) previous posts, this may be considered manipulative to the player and in this case, it was surely very disadvantageous to the player.

I believe you've misread or misinterpreted my statement. I stated that saving the last coin value used could be considered bad form on the part of the casino. Defaulting to a low value is very player-protective and I endorse that behaviour.

If I had to remember that I upped my bets near the end of the last session on a particular game, there would be a much bigger margin for error with the potential for me to throw away my whole bankroll before I realized it on my next visit.

Even with Inter at 0.05 default for their new games, I would still rather the default value was 0.01 just to be safe.

 

[spearmaster]

I believe you've misread or misinterpreted my statement. I stated that saving the last coin value used could be considered bad form on the part of the casino. Defaulting to a low value is very player-protective and I endorse that behaviour.

If I had to remember that I upped my bets near the end of the last session on a particular game, there would be a much bigger margin for error with the potential for me to throw away my whole bankroll before I realized it on my next visit.

Even with Inter at 0.05 default for their new games, I would still rather the default value was 0.01 just to be safe.

I had thought of mentioning this. Knives cut both ways - there are situations I can think of where the player would want the default to be on the lowest setting, perhaps after a poor run of luck on a higher setting.

Having said that - I prefer the default to be whatever I left the machine at. But it is always the player's responsibility to check bet size before playing.

 

[4 of a kind]

I really hope I dont get crushed here for making these comments, but just want to express my old man observations and opinion on JHV, only based on the Rome thread and this Inter Casino one.

He states his funds pretty much came from poker winnings. I would guess from either winning a big tournament or maybe a few great nights at high stakes poker. Regardless, he obviously still has a substantial bankroll.

He openly admits to being a bored person, a wild gambler, maniacal gambler, drunk gambler, a donk gambler, self-destructive gambler, retarded gambler, and if I were to read over his posts Im certain I could probably add another 10 or so more adjectives he used to describe himself. Now lets throw in the drugs he also mentioned valium, vicodin, etc. Yet, he still after all that is able to realize and admits his gambling is reaching concerning levels.

There is no doubt this man is reaching out for help. He may think he has friends, but its obvious they are not true friends. If this was my close friend, I would get him help regardless of what type of help he needed. Be it psychological, alcohol, drug, or gamblers anonymous. I wouldnt quit until he punched me out and forced me to get him locked up. When he got out I would still be on his ass. Whoever his friends are I would guess their just there for the free ride, and what ever they could get out of him.

He mentioned in one of his posts that Brian from here once bailed him out of an issue that was half his net worth. Well if he had half his net worth tied up with an online casino, I would think his problems are much bigger then any of us could imagine.

He is only 28 years old. Yes thats old enough to know better, but every person is different. As clever as he speaks at times on this forum, he also proves in many ways otherwise.

To still be betting online at his level after being screwed over by two sites, then ending up with the Rome and Inter saga, now 4 sites total, the RED FLAGS are flying all over the place. However he accumulated the funds he speaks of, he is destined to become just another broken down shoe.

If anyone really knows who he is and can reach out to him, I offer my support and anything I could do to help him. I could be reached via im here.

JHV if you read this, By no means am I trying to take a cheap shot at you. Especially since you cant even respond for now.

My intentions are truly sincere.

 

[spearmaster]

Could be right. Already had a bit of a chat by PM, could've met him in person yesterday but timing didn't work out.

I think he's got some control over what he's doing, but attention isn't quite what he's after (though it does no harm).

Anyhow, he's on a short vacation from CM now... and should be travelling shortly so probably not too much to worry about.

 

[chuchu59]

Originally Posted by maxd View Post
Forget it! "I want some goodies" is no basis for a PAB. This thread isn't entitled "Bitch and Moan" by accident.

The more I think about it, the more I am of the opinion that OP is right. Considering the fact that OP has bet huge amounts, this is not simply a matter of 'wanting some goodies'; that is what I understand from his story, since he continued betting large amounts, awaiting the reply from CS.

Also, are you not a bit tough on him? I think OP has a point and he is allowed to bitch and moan, at least that's what I think. Actually, I would very much like to see that Intercasino, one way or the other, pays out the 25K. I think that from a moral point of view, OP is entitled to that. Besides, what about the matter of the malfunctioning software (game freezes)? IMO another issue that deserves attention in this matter. If Max is not willing to help, I suggest that OP gets himself a lawyer specialized in gambling issues.

I doubt whether we should take a hardline approach to compel Intercasino to pay the 25K. Based on the OP's play history, it is obvious that he intended to bet max. No doubts about it. However, he also mentioned that he had made 20K bets max. I think this must have occurred in a number of sessions so it is likely that he might had some experience to click from min. bet to max bet several times on his first bet in any one session. Intention is one thing but at the very least JHV must shoulder some responsibility since he must have clicked to max bet on a number of occasions bar this one. I agree with Spear though that the deault should normally be set at the last bet size before a break.

 

[slotplayer]

I've accidently hit the max button, it's easy on the MG slots. I've done it at the land casinos as well. Sometimes I've looked up and had just 1 line covered and I don't drink.

You just learn to "check all your mirrors" before pulling out whether a whale or a minnow.

 

[The Dude]

I've accidently hit the max button, it's easy on the MG slots. I've done it at the land casinos as well. Sometimes I've looked up and had just 1 line covered and I don't drink.

You just learn to "check all your mirrors" before pulling out whether a whale or a minnow.

Yep. The bottom line is that we are adults and should take responsibility for our actions. Most of us a familiar with differing software and the nuances they all have, and we adjust to this. I could understand a player making a mistake "gee, I meant to bet this amount..." but to expect a casino to read one's mind and understand your intention does not make sense. To state " I effed up - throw me a bone" that's cool. The casino could possibly give you a free dinner voucher or go to a show. But to expect the casino to pay $$$, well you're dreaming.

As for the OP, he has issues and has made these most public. He's welcome back to the forum once he's gained some composure and agrees to treat ALL members with respect. I'm not censuring anyone - but I think he needs to take a break for a while.

I agree with 4 of a kind - there is no doubt this man is reaching out for help.

 

[Mouche12]

You all make sense, indeed. Still, the issue of the freezing games, which is the actual cause or core of this issue should be considered a major concern. But yeah, the player is responsible to check the betting value, but if game play is interrupted too frequently (check the casino logs), should the player also take the burden and all its consequences for that? We are talking about high bets after all and Intercasino IMO has assumed some responsibility by offering a 5,000 ND bonus, so they do realize that the correct way should be that the coin size remains unchanged when the game freezes and the player returns to the game. (Sorry for misinterpreting your statement, by the way).

 

[Scooter7]

You all make sense, indeed. Still, the issue of the freezing games, which is the actual cause or core of this issue should be considered a major concern. But yeah, the player is responsible to check the betting value, but if game play is interrupted too frequently (check the casino logs), should the player also take the burden and all its consequences for that? We are talking about high bets after all and Intercasino IMO has assumed some responsibility by offering a 5,000 ND bonus, so they do realize that the correct way should be that the coin size remains unchanged when the game freezes and the player returns to the game. (Sorry for misinterpreting your statement, by the way).

I wonder if he's using a wireless router? Mine works perfectly most of the time, but I have frequent disconnects when I use certain applications like Azureus (bit torrent client) and have to reset my router every 20-30 minutes. I'm certain that since my router is a $20 piece of crap and I probably don't even have it set up right, that it is the source of my trouble. I wonder if the same player on the same computer/connection would have the same problem on Inter's instant play site.

 

[Rusty]

While I agree with much of the sentiment 4ofakind has expressed and it is obvious most of the forum are in agreement it is my own personal feeling that this sort of thing belongs in PM as hinted at by Spearmaster.

That is just my personal opinion and if it helps the OP any to have these things expressed publicly then I will change my mind.

Maybe the fact his behaviour is obviously influenced by some of the things discussed by 4ofakind and these in turn helped him get suspended makes it fair topic of conversation though.
It just doesn't feel right to me to discuss someones personal issues (however well intentioned) on a public forum, especially when the said person can not post at that time. (I know you mention this 4ofakind and your intentions are perfectly good)
Am I being over sensitive here,?
So many people have nominated and thanked 4ofakinds post including CM it would seem so.

 

[bb28]

While I agree with much of the sentiment 4ofakind has expressed and it is obvious most of the forum are in agreement it is my own personal feeling that this sort of thing belongs in PM as hinted at by Spearmaster.

That is just my personal opinion and if it helps the OP any to have these things expressed publicly then I will change my mind.

Maybe the fact his behaviour is obviously influenced by some of the things discussed by 4ofakind and these in turn helped him get suspended makes it fair topic of conversation though.
It just doesn't feel right to me to discuss someones personal issues (however well intentioned) on a public forum, especially when the said person can not post at that time. (I know you mention this 4ofakind and your intentions are perfectly good)
Am I being over sensitive here,?
So many people have nominated and thanked 4ofakinds post including CM it would seem so.

You very eloquently stated what I had been thinking but hadn't been able to find the words for.
I feel sure that the intentions were good, but the content was too personal for a public forum, IMO, I think it would have been better if it had been via private PM. Who among us would want to be put on the defensive in such a personal way?

 

[4 of a kind]

While I agree with much of the sentiment 4ofakind has expressed and it is obvious most of the forum are in agreement it is my own personal feeling that this sort of thing belongs in PM as hinted at by Spearmaster.

That is just my personal opinion and if it helps the OP any to have these things expressed publicly then I will change my mind.

Maybe the fact his behaviour is obviously influenced by some of the things discussed by 4ofakind and these in turn helped him get suspended makes it fair topic of conversation though.
It just doesn't feel right to me to discuss someones personal issues (however well intentioned) on a public forum, especially when the said person can not post at that time. (I know you mention this 4ofakind and your intentions are perfectly good)
Am I being over sensitive here,?
So many people have nominated and thanked 4ofakinds post including CM it would seem so.

No Rusty youre not being too sensitive at all about my comments.

Its funny how pm never entered my mind until I actually read your post. If in fact my assumption turned out to be correct, I also see how my comments may have even a more negative effect from being in a public forum. Then again I guess I was hoping for more of a wake up call, and actually speaking from a great deal of experience being involved and around people gambling for over 30 years, in one form or another.

Its embarrassing to even mention the amount of money I pissed away throughout my life. My wife, kids, friends, and family have no idea what I really lost. But I sure doSome even think I was a successful gambler. (lol) Heck, I even owned at one time 50% of four thoroughbred race horses in New York. Of course I had a ball burning it up, but deep down inside today I regret every penny I lost. In addition I have nothing or anyone to blame. Aside from a joint here and there, I did all this sober. Gambling disorders can be just as bad as heroine. They both can take you out.

I didnt become a reformed gambler until I started playing poker online somewhere in the late 90s. Then I eventually also started playing online casinos. I always was (as odd as it may seem) a reasonable gambler online. Playing online also got the bug out of me and I lost the desire for my playground Atlantic City. After 20 years the novelty of the shows, suites, food, etc was wearing off. It became all about the money. It got to the point that I would check into my room, go immediately to the casino, and even eat at the tables. The only time I visited the room was to shit, shower and shave, some fresh clothes and back downstairs. I must admit that sometimes expecting just to freshen up, I did pass out for a few hours. But somehow or maybe just getting older, today I get as much joy from a $5.00 dollar bet as I once did betting hundreds.

After a couple of years of online gambling, and getting older by the minute, I some how actually learned how to appreciate and respect what I had, even to this day. I can actually today go to Atlantic City for a poker tournament and not make another bet anywhere and come home.

I was lucky to own a very successful business from 1977 to 2005, and still involved today in a small way. Yet, there is no doubt my family and I could have eventually been on food stamps.

I have so many gambling stories actually facts about myself and others, Im sure many of you will find interesting. Im certain the opportunity will come when I get to share some with you.

I hope I didnt bore anyone with this all about me stuff, but I also know no one here really knows anything about me. I still play online a great deal, and also visit this site often.

JHV is only 28 years old and once again even if hes Bill Gates son, what I was reading was so alarming I had a burning desire to reach out. It would be a very sad thing if the opportunity he has at this young age to end up anything less then better off tomorrow as a result of gambling.

Still, Rusty and bb28 make extremely well thought out points.

I will admit that before I posted my opinion of JHV, and was reading over my post, I wasnt sure if I should post it for some reason or feeling I had inside. I actually went back and added the first sentence. I guess what Rusty said must have been in my head somewhere.

The best scenario I could hope for is my comments are completely wrong.

And really hope I didnt screw up or cross any personal lines.

But I do hope my comments are only treated as wisdom and sincere.

 

[bb28]

Wow! I just read your post, 4 of a kind and what a post it was, heartfelt, honest and sincere. Reading this makes it so much clearer why you reached out like you did.

I'm really glad that you are in a much better place now and thank you for sharing some not so pleasant moments in your life so that others might find some benefit in them, you didn't have to......... by any means.

 

[catrina m]

Yep. The bottom line is that we are adults and should take responsibility for our actions. Most of us a familiar with differing software and the nuances they all have, and we adjust to this. I could understand a player making a mistake "gee, I meant to bet this amount..." but to expect a casino to read one's mind and understand your intention does not make sense.

I could make the claim that I am a low roller and only deposited $25 and hit the bet max by mistake and wanted my deposit back.

Other end of the spectrum.

I respect the OPs post but I would not have gotten any consideration if I said I mistakenly hit the wrong amount.

 

[Rusty]

Thanks for sharing 4ofakind.
I had no doubt your intentions were honourable and your post was sincere and I had no problem with the content.
I hoped to make that clear in my post.
I simply felt the need to express my own personal view that these things are probably best done through PM even though I understand your motives are as valid as mine - there is no real right and wrong to it.

I am sure a lot of members would enjoy reading about your exploits so why not share some stories with us in the attic.
It would be great if JHV would come and join in too.
I am sure he has some stories to tell.

 

[chuchu59]

4 of a kind,

If the post wasnt made under your signature, I would have thought that I made that post as this is exactly my own story except that my visits were to Macau and floating casinos and while I didnt own any horses, they sure got a lot of my money over 3 decades.

 

[Jasminebed]

I recall one incident with an online casino where a player with a long history at a certain casino hit a max bet (or maybe was the game defaulted to $20) on a slot and did not notice for 5 spins. He had NEVER bet over $2.00, and the casino DID give him a $100 free chip as a good will gesture, because this was a player they chose to retain. He was a long time member here, and forum support for him was strong as well.

I've made a larger bet than I've intended at Intercasino because of the way their default bets work after returning to game.

IMO Intercasino had no legal or moral obligation to compensate JHV in any way. But I would have thought a player in that league would be worth retaining, and the condescending tone of their response would irritate even me. Especially the "bend the rules" comment...I'm sure there are lower depositors that belong to their VIP club. JMO.

 

[jetset]

I don't see where 4 of a Kind erred here, to be honest. Everything that he noted had been freely and openly disclosed by JHV, who seemed almost proud of the way he handled his gambling affairs.

4 of a Kind's post referred to these points (which as an aside I also felt were alarming indications of a possible JHV problem) as he made a very genuine, sympathetic and mature attempt to offer advice based on his own experiences.

Kudos for that!

We have seen problems related to gambling discussed here before in a constructive and helpful way, and this particular conversation fell well within the boundaries imo.

 

[Rusty]

I don't see where 4 of a Kind erred here, to be honest. Everything that he noted had been freely and openly disclosed by JHV, who seemed almost proud of the way he handled his gambling affairs.

4 of a Kind's post referred to these points (which as an aside I also felt were alarming indications of a possible JHV problem) as he made a very genuine, sympathetic and mature attempt to offer advice based on his own experiences.

Kudos for that!

We have seen problems related to gambling discussed here before in a constructive and helpful way, and this particular conversation fell well within the boundaries imo.

Good grief could I have made it any clearer this was not about 4ofakind erring in anyway?
I really did try to make it very clear this was about my personal view and as I stated there is no real right and wrong of it.
I understand your position about open discussion and respect your opinion just as I respect 4ofakinds post.

I personally would like to think any open discussion about problem gambling was either impersonal or included the consent and participation of the person with the problem in order for it to be constructive.

I thought it was worthwhile mentioning that and that is the last I will say on this.

 

[chayton]

I think most of us have hit max bet by mistake and occasionally it's a lucky thing but most of the time it isn't. I've also done it the other way, playing some game and betting high (for me) and getting nowhere, then lowering my bet to extend my play and BOOM - first spin I hit something good. I've also got caught at 3Dice going in and spinning a few times and wondering why it's not paying and then realize that the game has defaulted to one line.

However, I've never expected compensation from the casino whenever anything like that happens, because it's up to me as a player to realize what I'm doing. Besides, I know that most casinos would just laugh in my face anyhow.

All of Intercasino's games default to a specific bet size - that's the way it's set up. If you play there more than once you're aware of it, and when you go to a new game, you learn to check the bet size first before making any wagers. If you close a game and open it right back up again, it's reset to the default, and I'm sure it's the same if you get disconnected.

That being said, the OP is obviously in a very different league from a lot of us in terms of bankroll (among other things ) and I don't doubt that most casinos would bend over backward to have him continue to throw money their way. But from the casino's point of view, if they pay him what he thinks he's owed what kind of precedent would that set? Then anyone who wins on a low bet can complain that what they MEANT to do was bet higher....and the ones who lose on max bet can complain that they MEANT to bet lower - and the casino has to compensate everyone?

 

[deltoid]

wow.

intercasino FAILS.

Lesson? If you're a whale, don't play online, sad to say.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I recall one incident with an online casino where a player with a long history at a certain casino hit a max bet (or maybe was the game defaulted to $20) on a slot and did not notice for 5 spins. He had NEVER bet over $2.00, and the casino DID give him a $100 free chip as a good will gesture, because this was a player they chose to retain. He was a long time member here, and forum support for him was strong as well.

I've made a larger bet than I've intended at Intercasino because of the way their default bets work after returning to game.

IMO Intercasino had no legal or moral obligation to compensate JHV in any way. But I would have thought a player in that league would be worth retaining, and the condescending tone of their response would irritate even me. Especially the "bend the rules" comment...I'm sure there are lower depositors that belong to their VIP club. JMO.

This is where I feel the argument that defaulting to a low coin is there to protect the player is wrong. If Intercasino intended this as a player protection measure, then they would protect us players where we REALLY need it, on their slots which can default to a very HIGH bet, and players have to keep remembering to LOWER it (unless they are a whale). The way they have set up the VP games seems completely different, with a more modest coin size used, even if not the lowest.

To protect players, they should set slot defaults to something much more modest, a level that most online gamblers use, perhaps between $1 and $5 per spin at the most. Currently, it seems to set to 1 per line, leading to stakes per spin of $25 and over.

There is probably NO benevolent logic at all, maybe someone just chose a number, and used it as a default variable for slots, and picked different default numbers for other game classes.

Things seem to have improved recently though, and I have noticed that the revamped slots, such as Native Treasure, no longer open at the likes of $30 per spin. Either they are staying where I left them, or are using the same 5c default coin as the VP games seem to be using.

 

[silverfox38]

from reading this very long post one thing

Isnt it blatantly obvious chaps if the poster had played max coins that hand
he would not have got pat quads?

The poster played huge amounts of hands at full coins and then played one hand at 5 cents via default and up came pat quads!!!!!!

In this huge thread no-one mentions it, all the hands you guys play has no-one noticed this before?

Try noticing where these casino businesses are registered and see in Law what remedies you have against them, why do you think they are in obscure offshore places. They take your money but just try and recover it by legal means and see how far you get... You have no recourse!!!

 

[Scooter7]

from reading this very long post one thing

Isnt it blatantly obvious chaps if the poster had played max coins that hand
he would not have got pat quads?

The poster played huge amounts of hands at full coins and then played one hand at 5 cents via default and up came pat quads!!!!!!

In this huge thread no-one mentions it, all the hands you guys play has no-one noticed this before?

Try noticing where these casino businesses are registered and see in Law what remedies you have against them, why do you think they are in obscure offshore places. They take your money but just try and recover it by legal means and see how far you get... You have no recourse!!!

What I believe to be blatantly obvious is that you've just registered and made your first ever post by calling up an older thread and accusing the casino of cheating.

Can you please provide some supporting documentation for your claim?

InterCasino and Cryptologic (their software provider) are not perfect, but they do have one of the best reputations in the business for trust/fairness of games.

 

[JHV]

InterCasino and Cryptologic (their software provider) are not perfect, but they do have one of the best reputations in the business for trust/fairness of games.

Was a large part of the reason why I was playing there. I'm too weary to attempt to convince anyone who isn't already acknowledging that InterCasino were simply in the wrong here, but I think perhaps some people assume I was exaggerating about the wagering completed from Spin 1 to Spin 15,000 or whatever - EVERY SINGLE SPIN at max coin.

Then the software crashed (routine and commonplace at InterCasino for me), when I returned down the track, for the first time the coins had reverted to Min 5c (100x less than my previous 15,000 or w/e spins - ALL MADE AT MAX COIN with $6,000,000 wagering in total).

I mean, seriously? I have a fairly acute and innate ability to assess what is 'right' or 'fair' or, if you don't want to hold online casinos to ethical standards, what is in their 'best interest' - and how anyone cannot see that they were wrong on all 3 counts stuns me and makes me wonder if I fail at communicating or something...

Perhaps I didn't explain adequately how InterCasino have TWO policies for coin size when you lose connection. If you're in the middle of a spin, when you reload and log back in, you're automatically placed on your previous coin value. However, if you're in between spins and lose connection, you're automatically placed at MIN coin value. I lost connection many times over the previous few days, and I guess each time I was mid-spin. The first time I was in between spins and lost connection...was insanely coincidentally a $25,000 pat Quads hit when software defaulted to Min Coin for first time that I had ever seen.

I genuinely believe that all of this is incredibly moot, however. 15,000 spins from 1 - 15,000 at MAX. A single (1) accidental spin at min after a software d/c. Come on, these numbers speak a simple language. I got screwed.

Upon reflection, I also got screwed by the language used in the (coincidentally delayed?) investigation whilst I continued to play, safe in the knowledge that there was 0% chance InterCasino would attempt to profit unfairly from this insane single accidental spin at 5c - with so many mitigating factors in play.

The language she used in her response (fully aware that I was continuing to play) was such that she implied fully that she was waiting for confirmation of my entire wagering logs to check my claim that I had made 15,000 or so spins at MAX, then a single accidental spin at MIN - this fully implies that, upon confirmation that I was not talking out of my ass, that they would send me my rightful winnings. Otherwise, waiting for the wagering logs is completely redundant.

If, upon receipt of the wagering logs (which took 2-3 days apparently - lol), the logs show that I was 100% correct and not lying (as they clearly did), she ruled against me and paid the spin at MIN - what, in god's name, was the point in waiting for the logs? The entire waiting process for those logs (which had zero bearing on her decision) was completely and utterly redundant and pointless - except that she was well aware I was continuing to wager $1250/spin at MAX coin during all that time, and losing 6 figures, whilst she waited for these logs which had zero bearing on her decision.

If anyone cannot see that there is tomfoolery and skulduggery afloat here, I fail at communication or you fail at logic - in my opinion, it's that simple.

She says she's waiting for the REDUNDANT and 100% UNNECESSARY FOR HER DECISION wagering logs THREE times in her email - hilarious!

Originally Posted by Assistant's Response Email
Dear J,

Account Number: *snip*

I hope this email finds you well.

Your account was passed to me in order to investigate your queries further.

I have raised my questions to back office and am expecting answers within the next 24 hours in order to assist my to resolve this issue.

Just to cover some of your points below:

1) I am waiting for a copy of your game logs in order to see the pattern of your wagering.

2) I am happy to advise that we do in fact have some VIP slot games which you could try, they are more than 5 lines but you may enjoy the betting limits that bit more.

3) I will await your game logs but will make a note and follow up on your suggestion for 4 colour decks and Auto hold.

4) Out system does have an automatic reset by default when a new session starts, every time a game is launched it defaults to the set default limit for that game.

5) Again I will await you game logs

6) I appreciate your points but can only once again assure you that we do have a default on bets and this would need to be changed as required at the start of every session. I am also awaiting on a server update to determine if there were any issues.

I hope my points are not to brief and frank for you and rest assured that I will be investigating this and will get back to you as soon as I have my findings.

Kind regards

Sharon

Assistant to Ryan
Head of Customer Satisfaction
Intercasino

--------

The software and server connection was buggy and jitterish often. And I'm certain it was not at my end, because of the dozen or so times I was disconnected from their server - my overall internet connection (with dozens of programs connected) remained 100% online. Looks to me like the Missing Link Variable there is fairly easy to spot.

Here are some random example screenshots of the buggy software and server disconnections:

Below: Example of game just freezing up completely (this happened multiple times). Note the green DRAW button is depressed but nothing is happening. Every time, I would have to kill the client and reload and login - and, of course, the coin was always at MAX so I got in the habit of knowing I didn't need to raise the coin value to my desired size.

Expired Image

Below: Fairly common occurrence. Each time this happened until the single fateful hand, I must have been mid-spin as I never remember EVER having to raise up the coins with 10 mouse clicks from 5c to $5. I think that's something I'd remember having to do, it would be an annoying process and as such, memorable.

Expired Image

Below: Another kind of common (but different) server connection problem. Again, I must have been mid-spin every time (note: it's VASTLY more likely that one would be in mid-spin than in the fraction of a second between spins).

Expired Image

----

But you know, whatever. lol....if a few players read this and realise InterCasino stiffed me good and don't deserve their reputation and take their gambling elsewhere as a result, I will have considered my efforts here to not have been in vain....

Ryan Hartley - if you see this, you KNOW in your heart and your brain that what happened to me was not cool. The incident itself was harmless, yet the stalling for days whilst I played (and lost) huge volume for reports that apparently had zero bearing on the decision...that's NOT cool and you know it.

The patronising tone and downright deceitful response (days after the incident, and after the meaningless logs were eventually found and analysed and dismissed as they never were needed for the final decision) was rude and unethical and NOT cool. And you know this also.

You should not have it as casino policy to lie (even little lies) to your players. She did not have to "pull strings" to get me into a VIP program with my 6 million wagering in a few days. That's a lie and we both it. And we both know it's NOT cool.

You should not have it as casino policy to intentionally and maliciously imply that an investigation in wagering logs is underway over multiple days when that wagering info can probably be pulled and assessed in minutes. And you should not have it as casino policy to stall an investigation based on arrival of logs which have no bearing on the decision. That's not cool, not cool at all.

I have not lied, deceived or twisted the truth at any point during this process - and if I was incorrect on something, feel free to point out such an error. Let's hope it's more relevant than the logs, which took days to arrive as I wagered on naive to the upcoming screwing, and which proved my wagering was exactly what I said it was - yet which had zero bearing on the decision. Let's hope for something that is real, and not shrouded in (extremely convenient) deceit and redundancy.

Fin.

 

[Mouche12]

I believe I said this somewhere earlier, I fully agree with basically everything you say. Why have you not sought the advice of a lawyer?

 

[JHV]

I believe I said this somewhere earlier, I fully agree with basically everything you say. Why have you not sought the advice of a lawyer?

It's not really that easy (InterCasino is licensed in Malta). In actuality, my legal case for the actual $25,000 is not incredibly strong. I would need a very sympathetic judge and, depending on the factors he takes into account when handing down his decision, could actually be a 'legally' poor decision if he ruled in my favour.

The law is not, and should not be, about pure fairness. Legally, InterCasino did nothing wrong. That's not what I'm arguing. I arguing they were extremely unethical and immoral (or, if you don't hold online casinos to those high standards, then I argue they acted very stupidly and not in their own self-interest).

However, this is not entirely true upon reflection. Perhaps they acted not only in their own self-interest, but even brilliantly so. And THIS is where I could have a very strong legal case (at least in Australia or the UK).

I tried to withdraw about $105,000 some time before the crazy event of that server disconnect and single spin when software automatically, and not in parity with previous coin sizing upon reloading, defaulted to 100 times less than my normal coin size after an insanely huge sample of 100% max coin betting. They wouldn't let me withdraw the $105,000 at once as I wished to do. They only let me withdraw $10,000. I was actually quite angry about this, and the InterCasino support phone records will show my anger when I asked for the reason and was (of course) not given one.

Now, at the time I didn't realise it, but obviously I had a gambling problem. This limiting withdrawals nonsense is evil - it's brilliant business, I'll give them that, but it's unethical and it's evil. It would not be allowed in Australia and I'm sure would not be allowed in the UK. In fact, I believe there are specific laws stating the casinos cannot take wagers for which they cannot immediately pay out on should they lose. I believe a casino in Australia got into a lot of trouble for pushing a high roller to accept a portion of his cashout in chips, which he of course lost on his way to the exit door.

So InterCasino brilliantly forced the money to stay in my account, and to add a little spice into the soup, they made me furious about the 10k max withdrawal issue. I thought I was smarter and more in control and not the type to fall victim to such an obvious, crafty play - but well, we all know how that usually ends for someone with a gambling problem. There are no reasons to limit max withdrawals, except for obvious brilliant (but arguably evil) business strategical reasons. So there is that aspect that might hold some weight in a court (probably not a Maltese court where Malta relies heavily on the tax revenue generated by the online gaming industry there).

Were I to fight this in court, I could theoretically have an argument to get $100,000 back based on the support emails where a decent barrister would easily tear the poor girl apart on the witness stand (I have no idea if that's how these things even go - I've been to court once as a spectator watching a friend argue a frivolous parking ticket "on principle" and most of the courtroom was just laughing the entire time as my friend rambled on about liberty and god-knows-what until the [quietly amused] judge had to cut him off and ordered him to pay the fine plus extra fees - my friend, stared down the judge with mock horror and said: "This is an outrage. You have dealt a vicious blow to justice today, a blow from which she may never recover. I shall never come here again. Good day!" and stormed out haughtily to some more giggling and laughter.

The long stalling whilst supposedly waiting for wagering logs which did not impact in any, way, shape or form on the final decision to not pay my winnings...in an Australian court, I'm certain the judgement would not only be in my favour, but I could probably successfully sue for subsequent losses sustained whilst gambling if I could prove those losses were linked to the actions of InterCasino. An Australian judge ruled that Crown Casino (Australia's largest land-based casino) had a prima facie case to answer over Harry Kakavas' allegations that casino management enticed him to play even though they knew he had a gambling problem. Kakavas was suing for $30 million. I honestly cannot find the actual final verdict online (unbelievably - can anyone better at Googling find it pls?), but I think he lost as his case in the end. Kakavas was pretty unpopular in Australia and there was a lot of outrage at what was perceived to be an attempt for a man who gambled to lost to "cheat the system" and claim vicimisation.

To be honest, I'll honestly admit I felt the same way. I was all about personal responsibility and self-discipline and he had gambling debts in Vegas and I just got the feeling he was desperate and taking advantage of Australia's strict Control Act. I'm actually really interested in reading the judgement now, as I have a lot more empathy for him now than the Australian public and I had for him at the time.

There were some things that smelt fishy about his behaviour (from memory). I mean, whilst I have zero doubt that Crown VIP staff did everything in their power short of kidnapping him to entice him back to Crown from Vegas (jets, 20% cashback offers, VIP tickets to stuff, the usual crap), I believe his claim rested on the premise that he had an uncontrollable gambling addiction and they exploited it. Yet he carried a concealed recording device to record Crown Casino managers enticing him back - didn't sound like a man suffering from a gambling addiction to me at the time. It smelt like a bit of scam really to me, too rational. Now, I'm not so sure. I mean, the man bankrupted himself and lost tens of millions in casinos all over the world - that's pretty obvious evidence that he had the worst kind of gambling problem (uncontrollable addiction).

Anyway, for a judge to rule that Crown had a prima facie case to answer was pretty huge. I think Crown might have dodged a bullet with that one - it was a very complex case (as these cases tend to be), with lots of allegations, counter-allegations, denials and so on. From my experience with listening to Jupiters VIP 'enticement' staff laugh about what they'd be prepared to do to "snag a whale", and from some level of understanding of how this whole shebang works, I do not doubt Crown VIP really went out of their way to take advantage of him.

It's a complex issue, the whole where to draw the line on "personal responsibility" vs "taking advantage of someone with an addiction". For most of my life, even having seen the power of addiction firsthand, I was (for the most part) in the accept the consequences of your own mistakes camp. But if a casino can be proved to be really being unethical (as InterCasino behaved in this case), they should probably be sued or punished - and if I were to do it, maybe I pledge any compensation to charity to show that it was not about personal gain (and also because I believe I should be punished, even though clearly I was not thinking rationally at the time and possibly not even in control of my actions).

I wouldn't even know how to begin the process if I felt like doing it. I wouldn't bother if the case had to be heard in a Maltese court - but I have no idea if you can have it heard in a UK court? (I'm wondering if UK possible due to Malta being White Listed, although it seems like a tenuous link)

One thing I found interesting was the below:

"Lawyers for Harry Kakavas claimed that he was told by casino chiefs that Mr Packer would "kill us'' if he found out about incentives being gifted to the..."

Ah, that sounds familiar. That poor VIP girl who didn't want to give me my winnings but pulled lots of strings to get me no match deposit bonuses with wagering requirements after I'd wagered 6 mil turnover in a week - what a nice lady, that she would go to such effort for me!

-------------

To be honest, I'm really just happy if a few more people realise InterCasino company policy is to behave in such an unethical manner. And don't play there as a result.

If there's a lawyer or someone that seriously thinks InterCasino can be punished for what they've done, I'll get involved and pledge all compensation to charity to both:
a) punish them as they deserve to be punished
b) perhaps make them think twice before they sell their souls to the devil for a bit more lucre.

I respect the play/s. But if I believed in a Hell, I am fairly certain the people responsible for those crafty and brilliant plays are going straight there when the curtain falls for them.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

JHV believe me you would have no legal success in the UK over the 'limited withdrawal facility' argument - ie you gambled it and lost because the casino wouldn't let you withdraw.

All these sorts of cases have been pretty well done to death in the UK courts and the casinos always win. The most recent was a guy in Newcastle who lost over 1m to William Hill. The guy self excluded himself saying he was an addictive gambler but later started using the account again and found the self exclusion was not working. He then went on to lose over 1m to them. He then sued WH but lost.

On the face of it that looks pretty harsh to the individual player. But the courts decided that it was not in the public interest as it could lead to a flood of claims. Also WH can afford the very best lawyers who would argue that the guy could just as easily have lost all that money at Ladbrokes, Coral or wherever.

I appreciate these judgements can look hard on the player. But for the rest of us it is not a bad thing. It would not be a good thing if these addicts got all their money back while the vast majority of players had no such recourse. Soon everybody would be using 'hey I'm an addict' argument.

You often hear the argument about slow or limited withdrawals but this is very easily refuted by the money laundering and anti terror laws. It may be true that casinos may hide behind these to an extent but no Judge is ever going to convict a casino for doing due dilligence even if it may be slow at times.

Lastly, for all the gamblers who suffer at bookies you do get situations where the bookies got royally screwed over. Obviously this applies to bookies rather than casinos. For example in the UK there was a mass gamble landed over a match involving Weymouth. There was some dispute of sorts and on the day of the match they had to play the youth team. Word got around in the town and by about 11 O'clock there were long queues round all the bookies. The bookies kept cutting the prices but the money kept pouring on as for about an hour or more none of the bookies infact knew about the substitute team.

Weymouth lost the match 9-0 and the combined bookie losses were well over 1m on this match alone. So it does happen the other way, particularly in horse racing. I think the courts recognise there has to be a lot of give and take in gambling or it would all seize up.

 

[JHV]

Yea a lot of this makes sense.

Except the nonsense about bookies. Cry me a river

The day I shed a tear over ANYTHING bad happening to a UK/Aust bookie working off 15% margin on w/e...well that day will never come.

 

[Mouche12]

I appreciate all that is said. However, I am not referring to the limited withdrawal issue (which is bad enough I give you that). I basically meant the amount of software errors (disconnection issues) in combination with the reversal to minimum bet size (which happens to be just the other way around compared to slots, which are being reversed to maximum bet size).

I am not a lawyer, but there is such a thing as the principle of fairness and reasonableness, that is also applied in courts. Given the details of this case, the volume of the total bets, (but not that you are or are not an addicted gambler, I agree that would not work), the email correspondence with CS and above all the game log showing this sudden one-time change to minimum bet size, I would say it is fair and reasonable for Intercasino to offer some compensation (to be determined by the court), also taking into account the the nuisance of all too frequent disconnections.

Why not give it a try?

 

[JHV]

I appreciate all that is said. However, I am not referring to the limited withdrawal issue (which is bad enough I give you that). I basically meant the amount of software errors (disconnection issues) in combination with the reversal to minimum bet size (which happens to be just the other way around compared to slots, which are being reversed to maximum bet size).

I am not a lawyer, but there is such a thing as the principle of fairness and reasonableness, that is also applied in courts. Given the details of this case, the volume of the total bets, (but not that you are or are not an addicted gambler, I agree that would not work), the email correspondence with CS and above all the game log showing this sudden one-time change to minimum bet size, I would say it is fair and reasonable for Intercasino to offer some compensation (to be determined by the court), also taking into account the the nuisance of all too frequent disconnections.

Why not give it a try?

At the risk of sounding insane and wankerish (but it's more laziness and the fact that I don't think judges should rule on *that* aspect of the issue), it's not really worth my time for the 25k - I would do it if I thought I could bring more public exposure to InterCasino for being unethical in lying to me about waiting for logs which had no impact on the decision (I'll admit that's really sick, and someone will go to a hypothetical Hell for that).

However, please understand that their policy (whilst incredibly confusing and could probably be made better or streamlined to be consistent in some way) - is not a bug. They just have two different policies (and there is almost some logic to having two policies regarding coin size defaults when you d/c).

If in middle of hand, the software replays the hand and your coin size is never altered for future hands.

If NOT in middle of hand, the software defaults to min coin size. There are slight improvements I would / could make to this (hell, maybe if a player has wagered 15,000 wagers on Max Coin in a row, and he's about to press min coin 5c, maybe a popup window like Chartwell has "Are you sure you want to hit on xxx" in Blackjack. I could fix the issue so that the policies are no longer confusing but InterCasino is not paying me, therefore I'm not in the (charity) consultancy business. The point is that the two policies are very confusing, as you can imagine. If every time you login, you never have to change your coin size to the one you want - it's pretty reasonable to assume that every time you login after a server d/c, it would be the same. Only later was it explained to me by CS that they have two policies for whether you're in a hand or not.

In fact, I'm fairly certain the lady herself didn't understand there were two policies. I may have worked it out on my own down the track.

---------

And, I also have a responsibility to mention they did offer 7500 or so total (? meh) in 2 or 3 small no-deposit (but with wagering requirements - not that I would have withdrawn, I was on sick tilt and chasing my 130k back) "consolation bonuses" in the end - but I found these little token 2k droppings insulting and I told them that. They console me with scraps from the table of a feast I catered for - and they console me after having lied to and effectively tricked me into losing 6 figures after they took advantage of my misunderstanding of a very complex policy system for default bets upon returning from disconnect - to actually steal my money. People won't like that strong word, but I see it as theft.

Now, the money I lost whilst they lied to me about the days waiting for reports which she led me to very much believe (if showing that I telling truth about wagering history), that was not so much stolen as craftily tricked out of me. Maybe a similar analogy would be making a bet with a REALLY drunk friend and lying to him saying you don't know the answer when you really do and he's too drunk to function as well). It's not 'theft' - but it's close. Very, very close. W.C. Fields would disagree, but I try to operate on a more humanistic moral code and will not actively contribute to a situation where I can scam someone - and I was foolish enough to assume they would be ethical as well due to their "good reputation".

I dropped out of Masters Law about 3 weeks into the course and don't know much about law at all. I had to remind myself what the definition of "prima facie" was this morning lol. But imo law, especially financial and contract law, should be very much emotionless and on face value only. The less emotion in the judicial system, the better.

Was that $25,000 rightfully mine? 100% - and anyone who cannot see it disappoints me.

Should a court rule in my favour on it? I'm not sure. Although 6 mil turnover and 15,000 bets at Max Coin can't be argued with - where do you draw the line? Who gets to draw the line? Judges can't rule on that, I don't think - judges shouldn't, imo.

InterCasino should have just NOT stolen the money. I would think they're rich enough that they don't have to take advantage of technicalities and confusing double policies purely to rip off their players.

I won't take them to court. But I will crush them as they deserved to be crushed (verbally) for the rest of my life - and whilst I'm just one rambling writer, I get around a bit. I just hope to make their decision -EV for them...as that will help players in the future.

 

[Mouche12]

Okay then, maybe it is more in your line to look for some good journalists? Although I still think that the frequent disconnections (the root of the problems occurring thereafter) are still an issue that deserve attention, first of all by consulting a lawyer. But if you don't wish to spend any time on that, okay.

There are various gambling magazines, like Gambling.com (are they still in business, I don't receive any issues anymore), maybe you would like to contact them or perhaps there is someone in this forum who knows a couple of good journalists who would be interested in this matter?

 

[JHV]

Okay then, maybe it is more in your line to look for some good journalists? Although I still think that the frequent disconnections (the root of the problems occurring thereafter) are still an issue that deserve attention, first of all by consulting a lawyer. But if you don't wish to spend any time on that, okay.

There are various gambling magazines, like Gambling.com (are they still in business, I don't receive any issues anymore), maybe you would like to contact them or perhaps there is someone in this forum who knows a couple of good journalists who would be interested in this matter?

I appreciate that you strongly (and correctly) agree with me that it was a very messed up and sick situation handled horribly, indisputably unethical and (in your opinion, arguably criminally) by InterCasino - the simple fact is that the industry has no incentive to expose or even publicise this type of incident.

These industries make a lot of money. A magazine is a vehicle for advertising / marketing the major online casinos. If they start doing expose's on InterCasino and other major casinos, they would be bankrupt very quickly. These publications, and almost all "online casino review sites" are as about as objective as a mother holding her ugly newborn child in her arms - you simply will NEVER get objective advice or even ethical advice from those sites unless they have someone editorialising who cares about ethics and delists valuable revenue sources for unethical behaviour, as I did twice when Editor of casino.pokernews.com.

Now, the above is valid, but there are some CLEAR exceptions to this rule:

1. Casinomeister.com - obviously

2. WizardofOdds - (to a lesser extent, he's not so much "watchdog" and provides other valuable services)

------------

I am no longer protecting my former "friends" at PokerNews. When Rome / Top Game fiasco occurred, resulting in my having to chargeback those funds - I sent the CM thread plus a summary email to my friends who are responsible for the site.

I expected Rome to be delisted within hours, if not minutes - a former Editor is saying they stole $3000 from him (in the sense that it was unrecoverable and he was forced to chargeback his card).

If I was Editor (as I was until Dec 08), I would have pulled Rome off based on a random accusation of such behaviour if it looked plausible. If I'm wrong, no foul, I'd put them back up in an hour or two once everything sorted. But you HAVE to protect players in the meantime.

I pulled two Casinos in fury during my time as Editor, and I was wrong to do so on one of them (Casino777 - who you will still see listed at 4th place - there were language barriers creating confusion and I should have been more patient, they were understanding). The other casino I can't remember who it was, I saw them on CM's Rogue List and pulled them. They were never listed again.

One month (?) after I brought my "friends'" attention to how Rome treats their customers, Rome is still listed as the 2nd Most Trusted Online Casino Room (I wrote those words 2 yrs ago) - they were not meant to sit above terrible operators like Rome.

It appears, and I'm waiting on an explanation as to why their behaviour was ignored and they are still recommended as 2nd most trusted - but it appears that my friends value $ > ethics / morals.

If that's the case, and I believe it is, they can go to the InterCasino hypothetical Hell which awaits those that would lie, and have innocents suffer as a result, just to retain / increase incoming revenue.

I'm no saint by any means, but this is disgusting behaviour to me. Disgusting.

 

[Mouche12]

Point taken, but it just struck me that you mentioned in of of your last threads that Intercasino offered you two ND bonuses of 7,500. I believe you did not mention this earlier. When exactly did they offer you that? Can this not be considered as some sort of compensation? Please elaborate once more, thanks!

 

[JHV]

Point taken, but it just struck me that you mentioned in of of your last threads that Intercasino offered you two ND bonuses of 7,500. I believe you did not mention this earlier. When exactly did they offer you that? Can this not be considered as some sort of compensation? Please elaborate once more, thanks!

They gave me like 2000 after I emptied my account of 100,000 whilst the lady waiting for those darned wagering logs to show whilst I gambled

Then they gave me like a 5000 one i think AFTER I completely tear the lady apart over her insulting lie in an email telling me she'd "pulled strings and called in favours" to get me into VIP club where I get match deposit bonuses and 1% cashback. Woot.

No, I do not consider them compensation. I consider them insults and told them I would consider them insults before the placed the token bonuses in my account - which they did anyway, busted both in minutes, so they wasted my time even more

 

[Slotster!]

This is quite an incredible thread.

Excluding 'played through/wagered' winnings - how much have you actually deposited and lost at Intercasino during this relatively short space of time?

 

[JHV]

This is quite an incredible thread.

Excluding 'played through/wagered' winnings - how much have you actually deposited and lost at Intercasino during this relatively short space of time?

I have a rough idea, but I try not to think about it - for all casinos. It's in the past. Do I wish I didn't lose so much? sure. but I also wish Natalie Portman was here, I wish I could get a decent copy of The Hangover that isn't pirated crap....that's like all my wishes right now - but my point is, wishing is a nice game to play, but I suck at it. So I don't lose sleep over it.

 

[Slotster!]

I have a rough idea, but I try not to think about it - for all casinos. It's in the past. Do I wish I didn't lose so much? sure. but I also wish Natalie Portman was here, I wish I could get a decent copy of The Hangover that isn't pirated crap....that's like all my wishes right now - but my point is, wishing is a nice game to play, but I suck at it. So I don't lose sleep over it.

I'm just trying to put this into perspective.

Taking wagering/playthrough of casino funds out of the equation - If you'd deposited, and lost, say $100k - 25% 'cashback' is a no brainer; any casino manager in the right mind would take all of the nonsense out of the equation and just drop it into your account. Similarly, if you'd only dropped $10k in but got incredibly lucky wagering 6 million quid of 'casino funds' - it'd be a much tougher decision.

Essentially - does the $25k you feel aggrieved about equate to more or less than around 25% of your net deposits from your own funds.

 

[JHV]

I'm just trying to put this into perspective.

Taking wagering/playthrough of casino funds out of the equation - If you'd deposited, and lost, say $100k - 25% 'cashback' is a no brainer; any casino manager in the right mind would take all of the nonsense out of the equation and just drop it into your account. Similarly, if you'd only dropped $10k in but got incredibly lucky wagering 6 million quid of 'casino funds' - it'd be a much tougher decision.

Essentially - does the $25k you feel aggrieved about equate to more or less than around 25% of your net deposits from your own funds.

What is the question you are trying to ask me - is it the same one as the one I politely declined to answer? Because it looks a lot like the same one.

I would ask you kindly not to ask me a third time. Thanks.

 

[Slotster!]

What is the question you are trying to ask me - is it the same one as the one I politely declined to answer? Because it looks a lot like the same one.

I would ask you kindly not to ask me a third time. Thanks.

Fair enough.

That's pretty much the whole crux of the situation in terms of understanding the casino decision not to reimburse you the 25K though... Of course it's your prerogative not to share that information; consequentially the third party observer will be inclined to agree with the casino on the information provided.

 

[Mouche12]

What is the question you are trying to ask me - is it the same one as the one I politely declined to answer? Because it looks a lot like the same one.

I would ask you kindly not to ask me a third time. Thanks.
Reply With Quote[/I

Sorry, could you please elaborate what question you are referring to?
Is it similar to the one asking me about the ND bonuses amounting to 15,000 as some sort of compensation by the casino?

Thanks!

 

[JHV]

Fair enough.

That's pretty much the whole crux of the situation in terms of understanding the casino decision not to reimburse you the 25K though... Of course it's your prerogative not to share that information; consequentially the third party observer will be inclined to agree with the casino on the information provided.

I've actually shared the information, multiple times.

It's simply that the whole "crux" of the situation is not what you think it is. I'm saying my money was stolen in an unethical and immoral and 'possibly' illegal manner. That's the crux of the situation. You haven't even read the information provided - so why don't you go do that now. But first, I shall explain the little game I was just playing with you over the last few posts.

It's your obnoxious attitude clearly present from the tone in your first post I didn't like. I read people quickly. So I didn't answer your question, but I did so in a polite manner and with a flippant comment about "the past is the past"...had you asked something like "If you don't mind me asking....and I know it's not at all relevant to the issue at hand, but it might be of interest as a side-issue if you put yourself in the position of a cold, dirty casino manager with no other considerations about ethics or morals - all his decisions are made with zero emotion, he's a psychopath - he would be concerned with how much you'd won/deposited/blah blah. blah." - you might have received a different answer and a firm but polite acknowledgment that I'm not a an idiot and I understand these very simple level 1 concepts.

As I knew you would, because I read you perfectly from your first silly post - you VERY RUDELY asked again, ignoring the polite but clear dismissal of your direct and rude question.

Now, I was just playing with you a bit. I just had a read that you were a bit of a dick and wanted to test it - you'll note I tested my theory whilst remaining polite both times. I am quite flippant about how much I've lost, had you even bothered to read around a bit, you'd have a pretty good idea. But you didn't know this - you asked a question and received a classic polite "I'd rather not talk about it type of response" from the respondent.

Rather than respecting their clear stated wish that they didn't want to talk abut it, you push forward like a selfish and rude jerk after the person clearly stated they preferred not to think about it. You're despicable.

Again, I couldn't care less. I just wanted to toy with you, I continue playing my own private game - and give my best impression that I REALLY don't want to talk about it, that to do so would make me uncomfortable. And, of course, instead of apologising like a human being would, you show zero remorse for your disgustingly rude and obnoxious behaviour, and you attempt to give me a lesson in Logic 101 as if I was a stupid child that needed basic logic explained to me.

From this, I learned a few things:
a) You are either lazy or you can't read at average > better speed - or, you might even struggle with reading and don't like it at all (dyslexic, learning disorder, etc)
b) Had you read this entire thread, you would realise I hold very strong opinions as to "why" they did what they did. If you are wondering "why", you are a moron. If you think I am wondering "why", you are sorely mistaken.
c) That I don't like you because you lecture level 1 basic logic as if it's some wisdom you're handing down. If there's things I have said in my posts that have led you to believe that I am in some way requiring of someone to spell out Level 1 IDO logic to me, please point such things out to me - I would be genuinely interested in how I gave that impression.

But I'm pretty confident you have a aversion to reading - and we cannot converse because I have an aversion to brevity. We're doomed and can never be friends. I'm sorry - this hurts me more than it hurts you.

There are some people on this forum for whom your "ground-breaking" common-sense logic might wow them, but I am in not in that group.

Run along boy and I'd request not to post in any of my threads again or, if you are compelled to, please don't address your questions at me. I have no wish to converse with you again. And you'd do well to watch your manners in the future.....

 

[JHV]

What is the question you are trying to ask me - is it the same one as the one I politely declined to answer? Because it looks a lot like the same one.

I would ask you kindly not to ask me a third time. Thanks.
Reply With Quote[/I

Sorry, could you please elaborate what question you are referring to?
Is it similar to the one asking me about the ND bonuses amounting to 15,000 as some sort of compensation by the casino?

Thanks!

No Mouche, I was playing a little game with the idiot who was being rude from his first post and I toyed with him a little as I was bored. And he deserved it.

My request was in response to his disgustingly rude and obnoxious 2nd post after I politely turned the other cheek at his first.

 

[Slotster!]

I've actually shared the information, multiple times.

It's simply that the whole "crux" of the situation is not what you think it is. I'm saying my money was stolen in an unethical and immoral and 'possibly' illegal manner. That's the crux of the situation. You haven't even read the information provided - so why don't you go do that now. But first, I shall explain the little game I was just playing with you over the last few posts.

It's your obnoxious attitude clearly present from the tone in your first post I didn't like. I read people quickly. So I didn't answer your question, but I did so in a polite manner and with a flippant comment about "the past is the past"...had you asked something like "If you don't mind me asking....and I know it's not at all relevant to the issue at hand, but it might be of interest as a side-issue if you put yourself in the position of a cold, dirty casino manager with no other considerations about ethics or morals - all his decisions are made with zero emotion, he's a psychopath - he would be concerned with how much you'd won/deposited/blah blah. blah." - you might have received a different answer and a firm but polite acknowledgment that I'm not a an idiot and I understand these very simple level 1 concepts.

As I knew you would, because I read you perfectly from your first silly post - you VERY RUDELY asked again, ignoring the polite but clear dismissal of your direct and rude question.

Now, I was just playing with you a bit. I just had a read that you were a bit of a dick and wanted to test it - you'll note I tested my theory whilst remaining polite both times. I am quite flippant about how much I've lost, had you even bothered to read around a bit, you'd have a pretty good idea. But you didn't know this - you asked a question and received a classic polite "I'd rather not talk about it type of response" from the respondent.

Rather than respecting their clear stated wish that they didn't want to talk abut it, you push forward like a selfish and rude jerk after the person clearly stated they preferred not to think about it. You're despicable.

Again, I couldn't care less. I just wanted to toy with you, I continue playing my own private game - and give my best impression that I REALLY don't want to talk about it, that to do so would make me uncomfortable. And, of course, instead of apologising like a human being would, you show zero remorse for your disgustingly rude and obnoxious behaviour, and you attempt to give me a lesson in Logic 101 as if I was a stupid child that needed basic logic explained to me.

From this, I learned a few things:
a) You are either lazy or you can't read at average > better speed - or, you might even struggle with reading and don't like it at all (dyslexic, learning disorder, etc)
b) Had you read this entire thread, you would realise I hold very strong opinions as to "why" they did what they did. If you are wondering "why", you are a moron. If you think I am wondering "why", you are sorely mistaken.
c) That I don't like you because you lecture level 1 basic logic as if it's some wisdom you're handing down. If there's things I have said in my posts that have led you to believe that I am in some way requiring of someone to spell out Level 1 IDO logic to me, please point such things out to me - I would be genuinely interested in how I gave that impression.

But I'm pretty confident you have a aversion to reading - and we cannot converse because I have an aversion to brevity. We're doomed and can never be friends. I'm sorry - this hurts me more than it hurts you.

There are some people on this forum for whom your "ground-breaking" common-sense logic might wow them, but I am in not in that group.

Run along boy and I'd request not to post in any of my threads again or, if you are compelled to, please don't address your questions at me. I have no wish to converse with you again. And you'd do well to watch your manners in the future.....

That is a thing of beauty.

You are my new favourite forum contributor

 

[JHV]

That is a thing of beauty.

You are my new favourite forum contributor

And now I like you again - perhaps I am getting played. Damn genius

 

[Mouche12]

Okay then, but as I asked before, can the 15,000 in ND bonuses be considered as some sort of compensation by Intercasino or am I wrong in assuming this? Thanks for the elaboration!

 

[JHV]

Okay then, but as I asked before, can the 15,000 in ND bonuses be considered as some sort of compensation by Intercasino or am I wrong in assuming this? Thanks for the elaboration!

I answered this already dude. And it wasn't 15k. It was like "here is 2k with big wagering limits attached" - after I'd lost a fortune whilst they stalled / screwed / worked me over in a brilliant and more talented fashion that I believed possible at the time.

I told them to stick their 2k up their....they put it in my account instead. It lasted 2 spins.

When I coldly crushed the lady over the whole "you lucky guy you! I've twisted arms and pulled strings to get you a match deposit bonus - aren't you lucky!!" (paraphrased) - I ripped her apart (she deserved a lot worse than some choice words, I now believe).

In response to my verbal bashing, another promotions manager took over my account and said he was putting 5k in with wagering requirements. I told him to stick it up his...he put it in my account instead. That didn't last very long either lolz.

I think there was one more bonus but I had to deposit for it - and I was WELL into an out on control / angry at the world's lack of ethics...vortex downwards spiral by then, anyone who sent me an email probably got a deposit out of me

-----

To your question as to these piecemeal insulting bonuses....I found them insulting and said so numerous times to anyone who would listen. They would keep trying to remind me how "nice" they were being but offering me a tiny bonus here and there and I had firm ideas about where those bonuses should be placed, and was likely descriptive in suggesting where they stick could stick they bs commiserations and insulting patronising and all their endless "efforts" they would try to convince me they were undertaking on my behalf. I never withdrew a cent after they limited me to 10k when I wanted to take out 110k or so. And I put a LOT more back in after that