Whine and Moan InterCasino Incident - What is your opinion? (warning: REALLY long)

[Scooter7]

Sorry, call me ignorant or inexperienced, but I think that Intercasino should have paid out the 25K, its obvious that OP is a big whale and would not suddenly change his coin size from 5 to 0.05. Intercasino also admitted as much by offering him a 5,000 bonus (no deposit I understand). I also understand from OP's story that there were quite a few frozen games, and although I do recognize that OP was not too bright anymore because of some drinks, this is quite a nuisance, and even more so if you bet such high amounts. OP's story may be a bit too long, but IMHO OP does have a point here.

I won't call you either ignorant or inexperienced, but the responsibility for clicking the deal button is 100% with the player. Whether InterCasino gives him 1.00 or 1,000,000, there is no admission of wrongdoing on the part of the casino nor should there be. OP and I disagree about the way default bets are handled when launching a game, but that point aside, I'm sure he would agree that a player's actions are his own responsibility even to the point of discontinuing play if the interface and functionality are not to his liking.

As I posted previously, with this player's expected turnover and theoretical loss per month, coughing up 20k to him would have about a one month payback period, making it a smart investment with good ROI. Unfortunately, the casino (based on their own evaluation) offered bonuses that the player didn't really want instead of cash. This, combined with the CSR trying to make the bonuses sound like a huge favour aggravated the player, who exercised his right to stop playing at their casino.

I would approach the player and ask him a) what would it take to get you back to the casino? and b) if we make you happy, would you like to be an affiliate and develop a working relationship with us, bringing in more players who are just like you?

 

[Mouche12]

I won't call you either ignorant or inexperienced, but the responsibility for clicking the deal button is 100% with the player. Whether InterCasino gives him 1.00 or 1,000,000, there is no admission of wrongdoing on the part of the casino nor should there be. OP and I disagree about the way default bets are handled when launching a game, but that point aside, I'm sure he would agree that a player's actions are his own responsibility even to the point of discontinuing play if the interface and functionality are not to his liking.

As I posted previously, with this player's expected turnover and theoretical loss per month, coughing up 20k to him would have about a one month payback period, making it a smart investment with good ROI. Unfortunately, the casino (based on their own evaluation) offered bonuses that the player didn't really want instead of cash. This, combined with the CSR trying to make the bonuses sound like a huge favour aggravated the player, who exercised his right to stop playing at their casino.

I would approach the player and ask him a) what would it take to get you back to the casino? and b) if we make you happy, would you like to be an affiliate and develop a working relationship with us, bringing in more players who are just like you?

You have a point there Scooter, but still I understand that because of frequent game freezes, the coin size was automatically reset at 0.05. As mentioned in one of (your?) previous posts, this may be considered manipulative to the player and in this case, it was surely very disadvantageous to the player. Those 2 issues do deserve further investigation by a lawyer, I think.

 

[Rusty]

Obviously JHV's "posting style" has caused a little upset and I must admit at first I had a natural dislike for him but since then his posts have generally been more considered and he has shown a good deal humility and humour at times.

The PAB comment was disrespectful in some ways though my instinct is that Max was baiting him some.

The thread was an interesting read but there is no real complaint here other than the Casino acted foolishly and treated the OP in a disrespectful and patronising manner and I think that has all been pretty well covered.

 

[Scooter7]

As mentioned in one of (your?) previous posts, this may be considered manipulative to the player and in this case, it was surely very disadvantageous to the player.

I believe you've misread or misinterpreted my statement. I stated that saving the last coin value used could be considered bad form on the part of the casino. Defaulting to a low value is very player-protective and I endorse that behaviour.

If I had to remember that I upped my bets near the end of the last session on a particular game, there would be a much bigger margin for error with the potential for me to throw away my whole bankroll before I realized it on my next visit.

Even with Inter at 0.05 default for their new games, I would still rather the default value was 0.01 just to be safe.

 

[spearmaster]

I believe you've misread or misinterpreted my statement. I stated that saving the last coin value used could be considered bad form on the part of the casino. Defaulting to a low value is very player-protective and I endorse that behaviour.

If I had to remember that I upped my bets near the end of the last session on a particular game, there would be a much bigger margin for error with the potential for me to throw away my whole bankroll before I realized it on my next visit.

Even with Inter at 0.05 default for their new games, I would still rather the default value was 0.01 just to be safe.

I had thought of mentioning this. Knives cut both ways - there are situations I can think of where the player would want the default to be on the lowest setting, perhaps after a poor run of luck on a higher setting.

Having said that - I prefer the default to be whatever I left the machine at. But it is always the player's responsibility to check bet size before playing.

 

[4 of a kind]

I really hope I dont get crushed here for making these comments, but just want to express my old man observations and opinion on JHV, only based on the Rome thread and this Inter Casino one.

He states his funds pretty much came from poker winnings. I would guess from either winning a big tournament or maybe a few great nights at high stakes poker. Regardless, he obviously still has a substantial bankroll.

He openly admits to being a bored person, a wild gambler, maniacal gambler, drunk gambler, a donk gambler, self-destructive gambler, retarded gambler, and if I were to read over his posts Im certain I could probably add another 10 or so more adjectives he used to describe himself. Now lets throw in the drugs he also mentioned valium, vicodin, etc. Yet, he still after all that is able to realize and admits his gambling is reaching concerning levels.

There is no doubt this man is reaching out for help. He may think he has friends, but its obvious they are not true friends. If this was my close friend, I would get him help regardless of what type of help he needed. Be it psychological, alcohol, drug, or gamblers anonymous. I wouldnt quit until he punched me out and forced me to get him locked up. When he got out I would still be on his ass. Whoever his friends are I would guess their just there for the free ride, and what ever they could get out of him.

He mentioned in one of his posts that Brian from here once bailed him out of an issue that was half his net worth. Well if he had half his net worth tied up with an online casino, I would think his problems are much bigger then any of us could imagine.

He is only 28 years old. Yes thats old enough to know better, but every person is different. As clever as he speaks at times on this forum, he also proves in many ways otherwise.

To still be betting online at his level after being screwed over by two sites, then ending up with the Rome and Inter saga, now 4 sites total, the RED FLAGS are flying all over the place. However he accumulated the funds he speaks of, he is destined to become just another broken down shoe.

If anyone really knows who he is and can reach out to him, I offer my support and anything I could do to help him. I could be reached via im here.

JHV if you read this, By no means am I trying to take a cheap shot at you. Especially since you cant even respond for now.

My intentions are truly sincere.

 

[spearmaster]

Could be right. Already had a bit of a chat by PM, could've met him in person yesterday but timing didn't work out.

I think he's got some control over what he's doing, but attention isn't quite what he's after (though it does no harm).

Anyhow, he's on a short vacation from CM now... and should be travelling shortly so probably not too much to worry about.

 

[chuchu59]

Originally Posted by maxd View Post
Forget it! "I want some goodies" is no basis for a PAB. This thread isn't entitled "Bitch and Moan" by accident.

The more I think about it, the more I am of the opinion that OP is right. Considering the fact that OP has bet huge amounts, this is not simply a matter of 'wanting some goodies'; that is what I understand from his story, since he continued betting large amounts, awaiting the reply from CS.

Also, are you not a bit tough on him? I think OP has a point and he is allowed to bitch and moan, at least that's what I think. Actually, I would very much like to see that Intercasino, one way or the other, pays out the 25K. I think that from a moral point of view, OP is entitled to that. Besides, what about the matter of the malfunctioning software (game freezes)? IMO another issue that deserves attention in this matter. If Max is not willing to help, I suggest that OP gets himself a lawyer specialized in gambling issues.

I doubt whether we should take a hardline approach to compel Intercasino to pay the 25K. Based on the OP's play history, it is obvious that he intended to bet max. No doubts about it. However, he also mentioned that he had made 20K bets max. I think this must have occurred in a number of sessions so it is likely that he might had some experience to click from min. bet to max bet several times on his first bet in any one session. Intention is one thing but at the very least JHV must shoulder some responsibility since he must have clicked to max bet on a number of occasions bar this one. I agree with Spear though that the deault should normally be set at the last bet size before a break.

 

[slotplayer]

I've accidently hit the max button, it's easy on the MG slots. I've done it at the land casinos as well. Sometimes I've looked up and had just 1 line covered and I don't drink.

You just learn to "check all your mirrors" before pulling out whether a whale or a minnow.

 

[Casinomeister]

I've accidently hit the max button, it's easy on the MG slots. I've done it at the land casinos as well. Sometimes I've looked up and had just 1 line covered and I don't drink.

You just learn to "check all your mirrors" before pulling out whether a whale or a minnow.

Yep. The bottom line is that we are adults and should take responsibility for our actions. Most of us a familiar with differing software and the nuances they all have, and we adjust to this. I could understand a player making a mistake "gee, I meant to bet this amount..." but to expect a casino to read one's mind and understand your intention does not make sense. To state " I effed up - throw me a bone" that's cool. The casino could possibly give you a free dinner voucher or go to a show. But to expect the casino to pay $$$, well you're dreaming.

As for the OP, he has issues and has made these most public. He's welcome back to the forum once he's gained some composure and agrees to treat ALL members with respect. I'm not censuring anyone - but I think he needs to take a break for a while.

I agree with 4 of a kind - there is no doubt this man is reaching out for help.

 

[Mouche12]

You all make sense, indeed. Still, the issue of the freezing games, which is the actual cause or core of this issue should be considered a major concern. But yeah, the player is responsible to check the betting value, but if game play is interrupted too frequently (check the casino logs), should the player also take the burden and all its consequences for that? We are talking about high bets after all and Intercasino IMO has assumed some responsibility by offering a 5,000 ND bonus, so they do realize that the correct way should be that the coin size remains unchanged when the game freezes and the player returns to the game. (Sorry for misinterpreting your statement, by the way).

 

[Scooter7]

You all make sense, indeed. Still, the issue of the freezing games, which is the actual cause or core of this issue should be considered a major concern. But yeah, the player is responsible to check the betting value, but if game play is interrupted too frequently (check the casino logs), should the player also take the burden and all its consequences for that? We are talking about high bets after all and Intercasino IMO has assumed some responsibility by offering a 5,000 ND bonus, so they do realize that the correct way should be that the coin size remains unchanged when the game freezes and the player returns to the game. (Sorry for misinterpreting your statement, by the way).

I wonder if he's using a wireless router? Mine works perfectly most of the time, but I have frequent disconnects when I use certain applications like Azureus (bit torrent client) and have to reset my router every 20-30 minutes. I'm certain that since my router is a $20 piece of crap and I probably don't even have it set up right, that it is the source of my trouble. I wonder if the same player on the same computer/connection would have the same problem on Inter's instant play site.

 

[Rusty]

While I agree with much of the sentiment 4ofakind has expressed and it is obvious most of the forum are in agreement it is my own personal feeling that this sort of thing belongs in PM as hinted at by Spearmaster.

That is just my personal opinion and if it helps the OP any to have these things expressed publicly then I will change my mind.

Maybe the fact his behaviour is obviously influenced by some of the things discussed by 4ofakind and these in turn helped him get suspended makes it fair topic of conversation though.
It just doesn't feel right to me to discuss someones personal issues (however well intentioned) on a public forum, especially when the said person can not post at that time. (I know you mention this 4ofakind and your intentions are perfectly good)
Am I being over sensitive here,?
So many people have nominated and thanked 4ofakinds post including CM it would seem so.

 

[bb28]

While I agree with much of the sentiment 4ofakind has expressed and it is obvious most of the forum are in agreement it is my own personal feeling that this sort of thing belongs in PM as hinted at by Spearmaster.

That is just my personal opinion and if it helps the OP any to have these things expressed publicly then I will change my mind.

Maybe the fact his behaviour is obviously influenced by some of the things discussed by 4ofakind and these in turn helped him get suspended makes it fair topic of conversation though.
It just doesn't feel right to me to discuss someones personal issues (however well intentioned) on a public forum, especially when the said person can not post at that time. (I know you mention this 4ofakind and your intentions are perfectly good)
Am I being over sensitive here,?
So many people have nominated and thanked 4ofakinds post including CM it would seem so.

You very eloquently stated what I had been thinking but hadn't been able to find the words for.
I feel sure that the intentions were good, but the content was too personal for a public forum, IMO, I think it would have been better if it had been via private PM. Who among us would want to be put on the defensive in such a personal way?

 

[4 of a kind]

While I agree with much of the sentiment 4ofakind has expressed and it is obvious most of the forum are in agreement it is my own personal feeling that this sort of thing belongs in PM as hinted at by Spearmaster.

That is just my personal opinion and if it helps the OP any to have these things expressed publicly then I will change my mind.

Maybe the fact his behaviour is obviously influenced by some of the things discussed by 4ofakind and these in turn helped him get suspended makes it fair topic of conversation though.
It just doesn't feel right to me to discuss someones personal issues (however well intentioned) on a public forum, especially when the said person can not post at that time. (I know you mention this 4ofakind and your intentions are perfectly good)
Am I being over sensitive here,?
So many people have nominated and thanked 4ofakinds post including CM it would seem so.

No Rusty youre not being too sensitive at all about my comments.

Its funny how pm never entered my mind until I actually read your post. If in fact my assumption turned out to be correct, I also see how my comments may have even a more negative effect from being in a public forum. Then again I guess I was hoping for more of a wake up call, and actually speaking from a great deal of experience being involved and around people gambling for over 30 years, in one form or another.

Its embarrassing to even mention the amount of money I pissed away throughout my life. My wife, kids, friends, and family have no idea what I really lost. But I sure doSome even think I was a successful gambler. (lol) Heck, I even owned at one time 50% of four thoroughbred race horses in New York. Of course I had a ball burning it up, but deep down inside today I regret every penny I lost. In addition I have nothing or anyone to blame. Aside from a joint here and there, I did all this sober. Gambling disorders can be just as bad as heroine. They both can take you out.

I didnt become a reformed gambler until I started playing poker online somewhere in the late 90s. Then I eventually also started playing online casinos. I always was (as odd as it may seem) a reasonable gambler online. Playing online also got the bug out of me and I lost the desire for my playground Atlantic City. After 20 years the novelty of the shows, suites, food, etc was wearing off. It became all about the money. It got to the point that I would check into my room, go immediately to the casino, and even eat at the tables. The only time I visited the room was to shit, shower and shave, some fresh clothes and back downstairs. I must admit that sometimes expecting just to freshen up, I did pass out for a few hours. But somehow or maybe just getting older, today I get as much joy from a $5.00 dollar bet as I once did betting hundreds.

After a couple of years of online gambling, and getting older by the minute, I some how actually learned how to appreciate and respect what I had, even to this day. I can actually today go to Atlantic City for a poker tournament and not make another bet anywhere and come home.

I was lucky to own a very successful business from 1977 to 2005, and still involved today in a small way. Yet, there is no doubt my family and I could have eventually been on food stamps.

I have so many gambling stories actually facts about myself and others, Im sure many of you will find interesting. Im certain the opportunity will come when I get to share some with you.

I hope I didnt bore anyone with this all about me stuff, but I also know no one here really knows anything about me. I still play online a great deal, and also visit this site often.

JHV is only 28 years old and once again even if hes Bill Gates son, what I was reading was so alarming I had a burning desire to reach out. It would be a very sad thing if the opportunity he has at this young age to end up anything less then better off tomorrow as a result of gambling.

Still, Rusty and bb28 make extremely well thought out points.

I will admit that before I posted my opinion of JHV, and was reading over my post, I wasnt sure if I should post it for some reason or feeling I had inside. I actually went back and added the first sentence. I guess what Rusty said must have been in my head somewhere.

The best scenario I could hope for is my comments are completely wrong.

And really hope I didnt screw up or cross any personal lines.

But I do hope my comments are only treated as wisdom and sincere.

 

[bb28]

Wow! I just read your post, 4 of a kind and what a post it was, heartfelt, honest and sincere. Reading this makes it so much clearer why you reached out like you did.

I'm really glad that you are in a much better place now and thank you for sharing some not so pleasant moments in your life so that others might find some benefit in them, you didn't have to......... by any means.

 

[catrina m]

Yep. The bottom line is that we are adults and should take responsibility for our actions. Most of us a familiar with differing software and the nuances they all have, and we adjust to this. I could understand a player making a mistake "gee, I meant to bet this amount..." but to expect a casino to read one's mind and understand your intention does not make sense.

I could make the claim that I am a low roller and only deposited $25 and hit the bet max by mistake and wanted my deposit back.

Other end of the spectrum.

I respect the OPs post but I would not have gotten any consideration if I said I mistakenly hit the wrong amount.

 

[Rusty]

Thanks for sharing 4ofakind.
I had no doubt your intentions were honourable and your post was sincere and I had no problem with the content.
I hoped to make that clear in my post.
I simply felt the need to express my own personal view that these things are probably best done through PM even though I understand your motives are as valid as mine - there is no real right and wrong to it.

I am sure a lot of members would enjoy reading about your exploits so why not share some stories with us in the attic.
It would be great if JHV would come and join in too.
I am sure he has some stories to tell.

 

[chuchu59]

4 of a kind,

If the post wasnt made under your signature, I would have thought that I made that post as this is exactly my own story except that my visits were to Macau and floating casinos and while I didnt own any horses, they sure got a lot of my money over 3 decades.

 

[Jasminebed]

I recall one incident with an online casino where a player with a long history at a certain casino hit a max bet (or maybe was the game defaulted to $20) on a slot and did not notice for 5 spins. He had NEVER bet over $2.00, and the casino DID give him a $100 free chip as a good will gesture, because this was a player they chose to retain. He was a long time member here, and forum support for him was strong as well.

I've made a larger bet than I've intended at Intercasino because of the way their default bets work after returning to game.

IMO Intercasino had no legal or moral obligation to compensate JHV in any way. But I would have thought a player in that league would be worth retaining, and the condescending tone of their response would irritate even me. Especially the "bend the rules" comment...I'm sure there are lower depositors that belong to their VIP club. JMO.

 

[jetset]

I don't see where 4 of a Kind erred here, to be honest. Everything that he noted had been freely and openly disclosed by JHV, who seemed almost proud of the way he handled his gambling affairs.

4 of a Kind's post referred to these points (which as an aside I also felt were alarming indications of a possible JHV problem) as he made a very genuine, sympathetic and mature attempt to offer advice based on his own experiences.

Kudos for that!

We have seen problems related to gambling discussed here before in a constructive and helpful way, and this particular conversation fell well within the boundaries imo.

 

[Rusty]

I don't see where 4 of a Kind erred here, to be honest. Everything that he noted had been freely and openly disclosed by JHV, who seemed almost proud of the way he handled his gambling affairs.

4 of a Kind's post referred to these points (which as an aside I also felt were alarming indications of a possible JHV problem) as he made a very genuine, sympathetic and mature attempt to offer advice based on his own experiences.

Kudos for that!

We have seen problems related to gambling discussed here before in a constructive and helpful way, and this particular conversation fell well within the boundaries imo.

Good grief could I have made it any clearer this was not about 4ofakind erring in anyway?
I really did try to make it very clear this was about my personal view and as I stated there is no real right and wrong of it.
I understand your position about open discussion and respect your opinion just as I respect 4ofakinds post.

I personally would like to think any open discussion about problem gambling was either impersonal or included the consent and participation of the person with the problem in order for it to be constructive.

I thought it was worthwhile mentioning that and that is the last I will say on this.

 

[chayton]

I think most of us have hit max bet by mistake and occasionally it's a lucky thing but most of the time it isn't. I've also done it the other way, playing some game and betting high (for me) and getting nowhere, then lowering my bet to extend my play and BOOM - first spin I hit something good. I've also got caught at 3Dice going in and spinning a few times and wondering why it's not paying and then realize that the game has defaulted to one line.

However, I've never expected compensation from the casino whenever anything like that happens, because it's up to me as a player to realize what I'm doing. Besides, I know that most casinos would just laugh in my face anyhow.

All of Intercasino's games default to a specific bet size - that's the way it's set up. If you play there more than once you're aware of it, and when you go to a new game, you learn to check the bet size first before making any wagers. If you close a game and open it right back up again, it's reset to the default, and I'm sure it's the same if you get disconnected.

That being said, the OP is obviously in a very different league from a lot of us in terms of bankroll (among other things ) and I don't doubt that most casinos would bend over backward to have him continue to throw money their way. But from the casino's point of view, if they pay him what he thinks he's owed what kind of precedent would that set? Then anyone who wins on a low bet can complain that what they MEANT to do was bet higher....and the ones who lose on max bet can complain that they MEANT to bet lower - and the casino has to compensate everyone?

 

[deltoid]

wow.

intercasino FAILS.

Lesson? If you're a whale, don't play online, sad to say.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I recall one incident with an online casino where a player with a long history at a certain casino hit a max bet (or maybe was the game defaulted to $20) on a slot and did not notice for 5 spins. He had NEVER bet over $2.00, and the casino DID give him a $100 free chip as a good will gesture, because this was a player they chose to retain. He was a long time member here, and forum support for him was strong as well.

I've made a larger bet than I've intended at Intercasino because of the way their default bets work after returning to game.

IMO Intercasino had no legal or moral obligation to compensate JHV in any way. But I would have thought a player in that league would be worth retaining, and the condescending tone of their response would irritate even me. Especially the "bend the rules" comment...I'm sure there are lower depositors that belong to their VIP club. JMO.

This is where I feel the argument that defaulting to a low coin is there to protect the player is wrong. If Intercasino intended this as a player protection measure, then they would protect us players where we REALLY need it, on their slots which can default to a very HIGH bet, and players have to keep remembering to LOWER it (unless they are a whale). The way they have set up the VP games seems completely different, with a more modest coin size used, even if not the lowest.

To protect players, they should set slot defaults to something much more modest, a level that most online gamblers use, perhaps between $1 and $5 per spin at the most. Currently, it seems to set to 1 per line, leading to stakes per spin of $25 and over.

There is probably NO benevolent logic at all, maybe someone just chose a number, and used it as a default variable for slots, and picked different default numbers for other game classes.

Things seem to have improved recently though, and I have noticed that the revamped slots, such as Native Treasure, no longer open at the likes of $30 per spin. Either they are staying where I left them, or are using the same 5c default coin as the VP games seem to be using.