Major Absolute Poker Issue

[Casinomeister]

...@CM, I also find the fact that AP has not formally responded to these accusations yet appears rather damming. But if the investigation is through it is going to take more than just a few days to sort through it all...

I'm sure they'll respond sooner or later. But a even a "we'll get back to you later" response is better than nothing at all.

 

[mg_]

Casinomeister,

In response to:

...I had seen a post at 2+2 that implied that Watchdog's IP had been linked to an employee of Absolute, but couldn't find it when I went back to look.

Bryan, is there any way that you can do a check on Watchdog's IP

You said,

He's in CR like a number of other forum members. Nothing here indicates that he is associated with AP.

If you refer to the below thread on Two Plus Two, 'The Watchdog' has been busted as sharing an IP with multiple known Absolute Poker shills. This was after having lied about not working for or being affiliated with Absolute. He had previously stated on that forum, before this came to light, that he is the same The Watchdog that posts here.

He was caught and outed, and instructed to stop spamming, by the moderator of 2+2's Internet Gambling forum, Mike Haven (see the following quote).

How's the weather in Costa Rica today?

Please come clean about who you are, potslammer/pokermachine/the watchdog, and stop your underhanded spamming of AP.

It really doesn't become someone in your position.

Source thread:

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[I Like Pie]

Adanthar said:


Then lets see it.


We are talking Proof right? Some fact that can not be explained in any other way than Absolute Poker is cheating?

Well lets all take a look see at your proof....

And just who is this "we" you speak of?

All you need:

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It's pretty clear that these players can see the other players' cards.

 

[lots0]

...pretty clear...

'pretty clear' is NOT proof....

At best some of what was posted at 2+2 could be considered Circumstantial Evidence, but no way it is PROOF.

 

[Swede]

Adanthar,

Do you have the 8/23 and 9/13 HHs available? If so, please send to:

modpower55@yahoo.se

Thanks.

 

[The Watchdog]

Hi there..

jaja Mike Haven thought I was some other poster which opened another account to keep posting... My 2+2 account has not been banned.

As you can check, I use the same nick at all the following forums:

www.casinomeister.com
www.therx.com
www.majorwager.com
www.poketfives.com
www.twoplustwo.com
www.eog.com

I use to work for the industry, as a matter of fact for several poker sites in Costa Rica...

I no longer work for the industry... I just said that the idea of a super account is way too idiotic.

For those who work in the industry you will know that not even the security/fraud managers at major poker sites can see the hole cards of customers.

The only time I have seen such a thing... was like 2 years ago while testing a poker software from a Canadian company called Gametronics (which was never released).... The first version dealt all the cards faced up, but this was for rake and deck testing.

If you check my ip you will either find Sabanilla Costa Rica, or probably Rohmoser or Escazu.. so here is a list of poker sites located within the Rohmoser Escazu area

www.tropicalpoker.com
www.actionpoker.com
www.truepoker.com
www.ultimatebet.com
www.absolutepoker.com
www.pokerstars.com (not rohmoser but close)
www.betus.com
www.bodog.com (however I think they only have the sportbook here)
www.youwager.com
www.bookmaker.com
www.betcris.com

Personally, I dislike Absolute/UB... I only play at Titan Poker since I am a playtech fan...

What I felt from those posts was that probably some highrollers lost some awful hands to a donkey, and got pissed.

The possibility of collusion is always there, however to come up with the story of a SUPERUSER account...jajajaj thats just hillarious.

One other curious thing is that there are people analyzing hands which probably have never worked for fraud or security...

Trust me, is not easy... You can't imagine the things you see when reviewing 2000 hands per day in order to detect collusion or chip dumping. Some times you feel so sure fraud is happening, for later to learn the guy was just a moron giving away his money.

Having friends in security departments of companies like: Poker Host, Pokerstars, Nine.com, UB/AP, BetCRIS I tell you that fraud/security requires skill (not that I have it). But for someone to review 100 hands and determine that one player is able to see hole cards, that is just nonsense.

Once again I clarify, I am not saying that Doubledrag, Graycat, etc are not fraudulent guys... as far as I know they can be the biggest cheaters ever... But to think they have "SUPERUSER" accounts... damn.. the guys who made that theory must have been doing too much coke while playing poker..

best regards,

TW

 

[GaryWatson]

I Don't beleive AP. I Used to think they were legit. Not for the last 4 or 5 months.

Furthermore, all the responses are just flannel.

Let them come out the woodwork with labeled reps.

This needs to be investigated outwith AP. They have proven that BS and shills convinced many players in the past.

Ill stick to looking at hand histories.

BS answers & typical of AP staff

 

[Wolfskin]

lots0

lots0 you are in the Search Engine Optimization industry. You get paid by web sites for sending traffic to them. So if you post the right links in the right forums some people may click that link and you get your money.

In another thread you jump right into the discussion when the watchdog gets criticized and defend him. Isn't it astonishing that you both post just right after each other in this thread. Now I'm wondering, are these two accounts related to each other or maybe even the same person? You know all the tricks to get a pagerank up or send traffic to a site, so maybe you teamed up with someone or you use both accounts for yourself to obtain more credibility.

The Watchdog spams these forums with all kinds of suggestions of casino and poker sites like no other account and you get paid for sending traffic to sites. Isn't that a funny coincidence?

In my opinion you are really doing a good job here, now tell us more about this, because you seem to have insider information and very good connections to Absolute Entertainment and know what's going on there.

 

[Pinababy69]

the site being hacked has nothing to do with the pokertracker softwares functionality. In case you don't know, pokertracker stores its data locally on your hard drive so hacking the site makes no difference to it. Nothing is being added, deleted or edited database-wise.

In answer to lots0's question if I was aware of the PokerTracker website being hacked...yes I was. And even went so far as to download the software to see how it functions. And ZFitz is exactly correct...once the software is installed on your computer, there is no interaction with the website unless you "update" or patch the software. So anyone running a "clean" (for lack of a better term) version of the software installed prior to the hack should not have been affected. You simply import the hand histories supplied by the pokerroom in question into PokerTracker. You don't link to the site itself in any way. That was my take on it anyway. Some of the other poster's comments here seem to back that up.

I think the lone fact that the Poker Tracker web site has been recently hacked (the hack happened at the same time these reports started showing up) is good reason not to believe any of the Poker Tracker data posted.

None of your business if I do or don't.

The reports may have started showing up around the same time as the hack took place, but many of the hand histories and statistics in question were compiled before the hack. Additionally, as stated somewhere else, these hand histories are available directly from Absolute Poker themselves, and can be assessed on a stand alone basis, without the benefit of PokerTracker.

You are absolutely correct lots0 that it is no one's business if you play poker or not. But, if you are not a player, I could certainly understand why you would not be able to grasp this whole concept. I really think you have to play the game at least on a basic level, to really get it. I'm not sure what your motives are in insisting that nothing shady went on. You don't even seem to agree on the chip dumping part of it..and that has nothing to do with PokerTracker. I just get the feeling that maybe you don't play the game, and thus can't see how obvious it all is. It is not just sour grapes.

As other posters have stated, hand histories are indeed considered proof when trying to prove or disprove theories of cheating. Hand histories are used by pokerrooms themselves as evidence.

The hack *did not* happen at the same time. I have a hand history of a hole card cam user winning the Absolute 1K on 8/23. The PT hack did not happen until about a week ago, and when it did, no files were altered, especially not on my system, which currently contains about 1K hands from various people. All of these hands are not even PT compatible, so in order to prove cheating, I have to look at them manually, but they are there and will be emailed to anyone on request.

In fact, we have a staggering amount of proof completely unrelated to PT. In addition to all of the NL hands and limit hands whose *summaries* are in PT, we have Payup's (the 8/23 winner) final table HH from two different sources at the FT with him, including the second place finisher; we also have some of Potripper's (the 9/13 winner) HH from two sources and a lot more of it from one. Again, the formatting on these files is messed up and they have never been imported into PT, but I received them from the affected players, who in turn got them directly from AP support.

Again, we have a *staggering* amount of proof that is not at all related to Poker Tracker - it's hard to read, but it's all there, and the hand history numbers are requestable from AP support (better hurry up if you want to see the 8/23 ones, though - they only keep them for a month.) I don't know if you have any kind of agenda since there's already been one AP shill trying to discredit me in this thread, but if you do not, by all means email them or myself and ask for HH copies; they will be provided.

Excellent post Adanthar, and it validates what I thought last night when I was trying to assess the role that PokerTracker may or may not have played in this.

So far - no response, which I find alarming.

I'll begin to look into this. I have a lot on my plate at the moment, but this issue seems serious enough to warn the gaming community on what's going on. Something isn't quite right here. If Absolute Poker is not willing to provide the gaming community with a thorough explanation about what is happening, then what are players supposed to do??

Very alarming, but typical. And yeah, what are players supposed to do? I hope that you can pry some sort of official reply out of them.

Source thread:

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A shill poster for Absolute Poker with a username of Potslammer, and a cheating account at Absolute Poker with a username of Potripper. Total coincidence I'm sure, but couldn't resist mentioning it. Still might be fun to compare those two IP's, lol.

 

[The Watchdog]

I read some place that Potripper is also the name of a hacking tool...

jajaja that makes things just worse.

If these guys were working together... the hell with them I say. But I just enjoy too much how paranoid people are thinking of superuser accounts.

Be wise, .. if you had a "superuser" account... would you be such an idiot by letting yourself get caught?? At least I wouldn't .. I would be the most relaxed player ever....

For me is simple...collusion or just a moron playing with luck. Forget the fairy tales out there

 

[GaryWatson]

jajaja your response makes things just worse.

I thanked you on behalf of AP

 

[lots0]

You are absolutely correct lots0 that it is no one's business if you play poker or not.

Just for you Pinababy69... Yes I do play poker, but only for small stakes. Try as I might, I'm not very good, but I still like playing.

I currently have one of my guys going over the PT software, I don't know yet if the software 'phones home' regularly or not till I hear back from him on what he found.

All I ask for is some proof and point out that what some are calling proof is not and I get attacked and flamed over and over again by the drive by flamers... Cool... .... Must mean I am pissing in someones beer.

I'm still waiting for just a little proof... Just a little, one small piece of evidence that can not be explained away by those pesky facts some of you are avoiding at all costs.

 

[GaryWatson]

I'm still waiting for just a little proof... Just a little, one small piece of evidence that can not be explained away by those pesky facts some of you are avoiding at all costs.

Without going into boring hand histories....

Absolute Poker has state-of-the-art algorithms and software in place to immediately identify any fraudulent or unscrupulous activities. Aside from just the algorithms, activity on Absolute Poker watched for by a full time team of professionals, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Now IMO, the hand histories warranted action IMMEDIATELY. It never happened. That is fact.

 

[GaryWatson]

What is being monitored. The play money tables?

 

[lots0]

the hand histories warranted action IMMEDIATELY. It never happened. That is fact.

So you know for a fact and can prove that Absolute Poker took no action whatsoever immediately on becoming aware of the accusations and having been provided the hand histories involved?

You can prove that AP did not start the investigation process or take any other action at all on becoming aware of these accusations?

Cool lets see your proof of this so called "fact".

Maybe it would be better to say that you BELIEVE AP took no action...

 

[pokeraddict]

So you know for a fact and can prove that Absolute Poker took no action whatsoever immediately on becoming aware of the accusations and having been provided the hand histories involved?

You can prove that AP did not start the investigation process or take any other action at all on becoming aware of these accusations?

Cool lets see your proof of this so called "fact".

Maybe it would be better to say that you BELIEVE AP took no action...

Actually an account involved in this disaster was dumping tens of thousands of dollars days after the accusations were flying and who knows how many people emailing hh's to AP. It's safe to say they took no action. The chip dumping on multiple nights warranted an immediate locking. From an earlier post you don't seem to grasp how important it is to catch chip dumping.

Also just so you understand PT. PT takes the hand histories off your own hard drive (where AP's software stores it) and converts them. No is no central db on PT's site. Everybody has the hands they have either played or datamined. If PT went out of business today the software would work until a particular poker room changed their format of the hh's. Whether their site is up or not is not relevent.

 

[BBKPoker]

You seem to have an axe to grind with me about exposing AP's many shady ways. On top of that your constant defending of them in this situation really makes me wonder what your agenda is. Maybe you just have no idea about poker and/or poker stats. My agenda is to make sure players are warned about staying away from shady poker rooms. That's it. I'm obviously not making any of this stuff up. I can and have proven everything I've accused them of beyond virtually anybody's doubt but yours.

FWIW, 2+2 (where pokeraddict is a mod) is absolutely exploding over this. Absolute has done a ton of very shady marketing and security things in the past (stealing entire player account balances with little to no explanation, the spamming the pokeraddict brought up, obvious forum shilling that has been ip-linked to absolute management, etc).

Pokeraddict has raised some extremely legitimate concerns, and regardless of what he's wrote in the past, he's not at all manipulating what's been shown. The evidence in 2+2 threads has been pretty steadily growing for 3-4 days now, especially since they moved it back from the mod forum to the public forum.

 

[GaryWatson]

So you know for a fact and can prove that Absolute Poker took no action whatsoever immediately on becoming aware of the accusations and having been provided the hand histories involved?

You can prove that AP did not start the investigation process or take any other action at all on becoming aware of these accusations?

Cool lets see your proof of this so called "fact".

Maybe it would be better to say that you BELIEVE AP took no action...

The advanced detection system picks it up immediately. For a $1 tourney player the account may be blocked after a few days just to make sure there is a case. For a high stakes player it take approx 3 years, 2 days and 4 hours to notice, then a few days of posting from players the site doesnt want to lose, then a few hundred more before posting a statement that everything is fine and there has been no fraudulent activity on the accounts in question. Everything else is laughed away as rumor.

The hand histories are as good as proof as you can get. AP will not or cannot provide proof that there was no cheating involved. Now it would be in their best interests to come out with the facts if they are innocent.

Dont bother with the proof argument, it holds no water.

In law it comes down to reasonable doubt. Now with several reputable professional poker players putting their reputations on the line and offering very valid points, its down to the defense (AP) to do also. They have done nothing other than to send a few paid deflectors.

 

[lots0]

Dont bother with the proof argument, it holds no water.

Ya asking for proof, is a bad way to solve a problem like this, lets stick with innuendo and false accusations.

Actually an account involved in this disaster was dumping tens of thousands of dollars days after the accusations were flying and who knows how many people emailing hh's to AP. It's safe to say they took no action.

First is there no other possible explanation of this players actions, like maybe he/she was just stupid, drunk or drugged up or maybe this person got so freaked out by being accused of cheating that they went on tilt to the max.

Next, So your sure no one at AP was investigating? They just ignored everything huh... wells thats crappy of them, but your really sure they did nothing, absolutely nothing...

Maybe the folks at AP wanted to know what was going on before they took any action or maybe they looked at it and saw nothing or maybe they looked and saw something but ignored it... But they took action of some kind...

You don't have any idea of what Absolute Poker did or did not do, but your willing to damn them one way or the other aren't you...

Wheres the PROOF?

 

[I Like Pie]

To the non-believes, what is "proof" to you? Do you have to see video evidence of this/these guy(s) playing seeing the holecards? Because that's what it sounds like you would like to see.

Any reasonable person with any knowledge of poker that has read those 2+2 threads would believe that there was cheating. No player could play like that. A guy cold-capped pre-flop in a hand then proceed to fold to ONE bet after a 225 flop when it just happened to be a hand where his opponent flopped a full house? Unreal. Just one of the many pieces of evidence.

 

[lots0]

They have done nothing other than to send a few paid deflectors.

Now this is starting to piss me off.

You can't provide any proof to back up what you say, so you lay more innuendo down about me.

For the record - AP is not paying me to be here and NO ONE tells me what to say. I don't need anyones money that bad.

Just what is your concern here? Aren't you getting money from, playing at and endorsing AP's competitors? Doesn't 2+2 advertise "other" Poker Rooms that are AP competitors... So are you being paid by one of these poker rooms to trash AP? I mean you don't play at AP, your always trashing them, true or not. So how do we know your not getting paid to trash AP, you sure seem dedicated to it, almost like your getting paid for it...

If I thought for a second AP was in fact doing what you claim I would be the first to black list them.

But so far I have not seen one single thing that leads me to believe that your accusations of a "super user" account are true.

what is "proof" to you?

proof = the act of validating; finding or testing the truth of something.

 

[I Like Pie]

I didn't ask what is the definition of proof, what, in this case, would you consider proof that players are cheating and can see holecards? Such as, videotapes of the act, statistics, whatever.

 

[lots0]

@I Like Pie
Are you a security expert?

Do you or anyone posting at 2+2 have any formal training in detecting poker cheats?

How many poker hand histories (before this) have you analyzed looking for fraud or cheats?

Did you or anyone ask for an independent audit by a security expert of the hands involved? (independent being the key word here)

When I hear from an independent security expert that has analyzed all the histories involved, I will make my mind up, till then or new evidence is presented AP gets the benefit of the doubt as far as I am concerned.

 

[pokeraddict]

Did you or anyone ask for an independent audit by a security expert of the hands involved? (independent being the key word here)

Yes, this has been requested over and over actually. AP's credibility is so shot they will really need a 3rd party to analyze this. AP's security department has already shown themselves to be incompetent in this situation. I guess many of us have finally found something to agree with you on. Somebody other then AP needs to be finding out how this happened and to what extent AP or their insiders might be involved (if any).

 

[I Like Pie]

@I Like Pie
Are you a security expert?

Do you or anyone posting at 2+2 have any formal training in detecting poker cheats?

How many poker hand histories (before this) have you analyzed looking for fraud or cheats?

Did you or anyone ask for an independent audit by a security expert of the hands involved? (independent being the key word here)

When I hear from an independent security expert that has analyzed all the histories involved, I will make my mind up, till then or new evidence is presented AP gets the benefit of the doubt as far as I am concerned.

wow, now I don't even think you're being serious and just posting for "shock value"
you're just being silly