Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged).

Let see how my psychic powers are doing with this Absolute mess:

I foresee a statement that goes something like this... we had a bad employee that (a) wanted to prove the system could be hacked or, (b) wanted to embarrass and damage the poker room's reputation; this current problem doesn't prove same type of cheating has been going on for ages; said employee is dismissed; gaping hole is patched/plugged/remedied; pay off a few players; everything's peachy keen, move along, nothing to see here.

I also believe that these 'semi' statements and off the record employee statements to the press are 'feelers'. They want to gauge how much players will tolerate, accept, swallow.

I sincerely hope this is merely my paranoia running rampant, and that I am waaaay wrong.

**********
Edit:
Just found this.....
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...Today, according to several online poker players Absolute Poker representatives began calling people one by one from the original .xls document that was leaked, each person whos personal information was compromised by the internet poker room was given $500 to play with at Absolute Poker.
...
 
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I think your analysis is spot on, Mousey. They are reading all the threads on all the sites and trying to work out what they can get away with, and what the counter-arguments are going to be to anything they say, before they actually go as far as to say it officially.

I also think it's completely futile. I don't see any argument that they can make, or anything that they can say, that will get them out of this.

Having said that, people will still play there. Some sites will still accept their advertising money, and will continue to recommend them on that basis. And people will continue to play. But I don't see how they can get away from being considered a rogue site. Not that it's up to me, but I just can't.
 
And thanks for the link, Mousey, which reveals that they are working from the original .xls document that was leaked. Presumably this is a fresh install of excel, since they don't run excel at all. We were told this by lots0, I believe, who was told this by somebody who works there, but they are using the original .xls document that was leaked. They can't decide whether it has been doctored yet, but they clearly have it in their possession as they are working from it. :confused:
 
According to Adanthar and Nat a statement from AP will come in the morning implicating current or former senior employees. Obviously their "Geek did it just to frame Scott Tom" isn't going to fly and they know it. Hopefully this gets us somewhere.
 
It looks as if Absolute Poker is using 911 as its main medium for damage control, with a stream of comments addressing various aspects of the crisis and stressing the "Scott Tomm not involved; an in-house hacker; business unaffected by the incident; we don't need to cheat, we make so much money; hacking 'common' in Costa Rican gambling firms etc etc etc

"Scott Tom is one of the original founders. He has played on the site but is no longer legally involved," a spokesperson for Absolute Poker told Gambling911.com."

and

"Hacking is an all too common practice among skilled tech employees of Costa Rican online gambling establishments and rarely is it done to be malicious.

"This employee wanted to prove to us he could do this (see the whole [sic]cards)," a Senior Manager of Absolute Poker conveyed to Gambling911.com."

and

"Like with most US-facing online gambling companies, few if any of the actual principals involved are willing to show their faces or use their real names out of fear they will become targets of US Federal and State investigations into "illegal web gambling". Calvin Ayre, the high profile founder of Bodog.com, has recently shown up on one such list, Gambling911.com learned this week."

and

"Still, Absolute Poker contends that management - either current or former - would have any reason to engage in such criminal activity.

"Absolute Poker takes in so much money, why would any of the owners risk damaging such a successful business by cheating?" the rep points out.

The representative also eased concerns over Absolute Poker potentially having a "run of the bank" as a result of this crisis.

"It's business as usual and payouts are not being delayed in the least."

And it appears that the $500 largesse handed out to AP tournament players is a gesture to compensate their private information being leaked at Absolute Poker in this mess:

"Of major concern to Absolute Poker was the fact that an excel sheet containing confidential customer information had been sent out by an "irresponsible" employee.

"By Saturday, Absolute had started calling everyone in the POTRIPPER tournament and giving them $500 for accidentally releasing their personal information according to a report filed at PocketFives.com."
 
"Hacking is an all too common practice among skilled tech employees of Costa Rican online gambling establishments and rarely is it done to be malicious.

FOFLMAO.... this should instill confidence in players! Makes me feel all better... :rolleyes:

Edit: Just found the following.....

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A representative speaking on behalf of Absolute Poker tells Gambling911.com "a super user account does not exist".

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:

"BREAKING UPDATE
from N 82 50 24 via P5s

Okay, I just got off the phone with someone who spoke to Russ Hamilton, former owner of UB.

Two people will be implicated here, you can probably guess who. One is going to be removed from online poker forever and one is going be removed for a fair amount of time.

I was asked not to post specifics and that AP's statement is going to be detailed and is going to be released Sunday morning."

And...
UPDATE: Absolute Scapegoat? Absolute Poker claims rogue programmer framed owner/executive.

****

Personal observation/opinion... AP has gone from being totally mum to positively manic with verbal tidbits and comments popping up several times a day... these last couple of days, they can't seem to shut up. :rolleyes: It is not without purpose.


Edit#2:

Guess who just joined the forum today? Absolutepoker4u
Player? Poker room rep?
 
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To address one of the theories put out by AP

One of the theories/statements floated by AP seems to be that a programmer/employee wanted to prove that their system was vulnerable, and had no intention of profiting from this action. If that was true, why did it take so long for this to be discovered. Wouldn't the alleged culprit had EMailed management the day after the infamous tournament and said something like "See, I told you so, I fixed this tournament by exploiting the vulnerability you claimed didnt exist. Ive proved my point" If they didnt want to implicate themselves, Im sure they could have found an anonymous way to communicate the same message.

If this had really been what happened, they would have known about it relatively quickly. It does not speak well that they even attempted to float that theory.
 
Excellent points, Keyser.

I guess we have to be reminded every now and again that the owners of establishments like Absolute Poker are not necessarily the sharpest knives in the drawer!!

This story floated by AP of an employee risking the poker room's entire credibility in order to "prove a point" to management looks more outrageous by the moment.
 
Excellent points, Keyser.

I guess we have to be reminded every now and again that the owners of establishments like Absolute Poker are not necessarily the sharpest knives in the drawer!!

This story floated by AP of an employee risking the poker room's entire credibility in order to "prove a point" to management looks more outrageous by the moment.

It really makes their security department look Mickey Mouse.

BTW here is their statement today.

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It's long but vague. It does not give us any new info as far as I am concerned.
 
From the release:

As has been speculated in several online forums, this consultant devised a sophisticated scheme to manipulate internal systems to access third-party computers and accounts to view hole cards of other customers during play without their knowledge.

I'm guessing this means spyware got downloaded during an update? This seems to indicate a denial of the super user theory so this is the only thing that makes sense. If you have AP on your computer I guess it is safe to say you have spyware unless I have misunderstood.
 
From the release:



I'm guessing this means spyware got downloaded during an update? This seems to indicate a denial of the super user theory so this is the only thing that makes sense. If you have AP on your computer I guess it is safe to say you have spyware unless I have misunderstood.

That's what it sounds like to me, Pokeraddict... It would be nice if they'd tell players what files/worms/trojans we should be looking for. :rolleyes: AP seems to say a lot without really saying much that's specific, don't they?

And what does this mean?
We have recently uncovered additional accounts used by the consultant that have not been publicly reported. So as to not compromise the investigation, we are not releasing the names of these additional accounts at this time, and will contact these affected customers individually.
 
I guess it means that they do not want to publicly call out the cheats. It's all obviously BS. This post at 2+2 really breaks up their statement well.

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Especially the "AP has not been more forthcoming in providing a timely or comprehensive explanation ".

If players have been infected with a virus AP needs to tell us what the virus is called and what may have been compromised. Obviously they can't since the statement is crap.
 
According to the latest statement, if I understand it correctly, people who use AP now have malware on their computers? Is that right? How difficult would it be to show that this is not true? It certainly sounds like more lies to me.

If people who currently run AP software log on to the site, is their software updated? Otherwise, how can the hole be fixed? The implication if your software is not updated would be that you still have malicious programs on your computer sending out your hole cards - even if nobody is listening at the other end at the moment. How can that be satisfactory?



EDIT: Or there would have to be a backdoor still there - even worse, perhaps. I'm no expert on computer security, but how can the hole be fixed without an update of the client software? Has there been one?
 
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Has Anyone Checked Other Hand Histories AP Sent?

I requested from AP some hand histories when this story broke so that I would have some evidence in case I was entitled to a refund. I played some very high limit at AP in the months of July after I won a tournament. Anyway in the hand histories which AP sent me are e-mail address as well as IP address of numerous members. Furthermore does anyone have a list of all the cheating accounts exposed as I think I did play against several of them in the month of July.

Thank You
 
The accounts the detectives have come up with are Graycat (might have been Greycat), Doubledrag, Steamroller, Potripper and Payup. I'm not sure if Payup had the evidence the other 4 have had against them. AP has admitted there are other accounts that cheated that have yet to be publicly exposed as well.
 
Any indication (independent of AP's assertions) as to how long this may have been going on?
 
Everyone needs to put their hip waders on in order to wade through the BS that AP is putting out about what REALLY happened........don't ya think?

Here's mine.
 
There are some interesting photographs of the frat boy collective that allegedly founded AP - including the mysterious AJ Green and Scott Tom - going the rounds at present.
 
I believe Scott's photo came out a day or 2 ago..but Brents and AJ's is out now.

It is 'rumored' that Scott and Brent are more than Alumni's, they are (might be) stepbrothers.
 
  • Here's the links to some photo's....if already posted, my apologies.

    Brent Douglas Beckley (Head of Payments & Fraud) - Third guy from left on back row

    Last guy on the right in back is Scott Phillip Tom

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  • Scott Phillip Tom is the big boss at AP, but from a documentary perspective, he is a consultant.
    Any major decision that has to be made has to be made by him.

    He don't just work for AP, he is in 'charge' (CEO)


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    Photo's taken at Oscar Hilt Tatum (CFO) wedding picture
 
Nobody responded to me. I was sent hand histories from some play I had which also has members personal information within in. I wrote to AP about this but I doubt I will get a response. This is a very serious violation of privacy. I have a feeling that all hand histories, or at least a majority of them were sent with personal information within them.
 
Nobody responded to me. I was sent hand histories from some play I had which also has members personal information within in. I wrote to AP about this but I doubt I will get a response. This is a very serious violation of privacy. I have a feeling that all hand histories, or at least a majority of them were sent with personal information within them.

$500 for everybody in your hh's! That's what AP did for the $1050 MTT they leaked. It might be something to PM Adanthar or Nat about.

BTW anybody that has PM'd me in the last 18 hours or so I will need some extra time to respond, have to run.
 
Nobody responded to me. I was sent hand histories from some play I had which also has members personal information within in. I wrote to AP about this but I doubt I will get a response. This is a very serious violation of privacy. I have a feeling that all hand histories, or at least a majority of them were sent with personal information within them.


Definitely PM "N 82 50 24" or "adanthar" on twoplustwo.com about this, in case they don't follow this thread.
 
I found this article, it goes into some things that I haven't seen mentioned in any of the other numerous news articles. Here is the link for the article
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October-22-2007,
For the Future of Online Gambling Absolute Poker Must Satisfy it's Critics...By Hartley Henderson


The online poker community has been shocked by allegations of cheating in a poker tournament at the site Absolutepoker.com a little while ago. The concern is that if this could happen once, what safeguards are in place to ensure it can't happen more often? Here is the condensed notes version of what happened.

- After losing a $500 buy-in tournament at AbsolutePoker.com, the second placed player suspected that the winner of the tournament who went under the screen name "Potripper" was cheating. The player emailed the company and a clerk from Absolute Poker sent him an Excel spreadsheet which listed the play of every hand from every table at that tournament as well as noting all observers of the tournament.

- Upon sharing the spreadsheet with others at a poker forum, poker and database experts noted some very unusual play by Potripper. In the first 2 hands of the tournament Potripper folded pre-flop, but then after an observer came into the room, Potripper never folded another hand for the next 20 minutes. This action led the experts to believe the "observer" was somehow working with Potripper.

- Examining play during that 20 minutes, it was found Potripper was playing very unconventionally, raising with garbage and thus forcing players that were well ahead in the hand to fold. At the same time he would often fold good hands for no reason including one hand where he openly folded KK when another player had AA. This play was extremely suspicious and had almost everyone who looked at the playing style believing that Potripper could actually see the hole cards of others and was playing accordingly.

- Poker forums picked up on the possible cheating and began looking further into the accounts of observers and Potripper himself. Potripper turned out to be AJ Green, a former director of Absolute Poker and a current director of Nine.com. As well, one of the observers of the game is a man named Scott Tom who was Absolute Poker's president until 2005 and also a very close friend of AJ Green. Scott Tom is also believed to be associated with Absolute Poker today and the IP address of his account belongs to riveieraltd.com, which is on the Kahnawake reserve outside Montreal where Absolute Poker's servers are located. In fact several of those in question had accounts with the rivieraltd.com domain name.

For the sake of this article it is sufficient to stop the extended details at this point, but it must be noted that Absolute Poker went into denial mode and did everything in its power to make the story go away, including removing the DNS information for rivieraltd.com, firing the clerk that sent the Excel spreadsheet and constantly refusing to acknowledge any wrongdoing. More and more evidence came up implicating the company, and after national media coverage of the events (including articles written in the New York Times and Houston Chronicle), the company admitted its software was compromised and would be issuing payouts to the legitimate winners and refunding anyone who was affected by the game. They also stated they will conduct an internal investigation and deal with those that were implicated in the apparent scam.

Clearly Absolute Poker hopes that this will be the end of the incident and it will be business as usual, but the online gambling community must assure that it doesn't end there. From the onset of internet wagering there has been concern about the legitimacy of games. In fact, that was the main concern expressed by John Kyl when he introduced the first internet prohibition bill in 1997. Software providers and online wagering websites assured the public and the government that Tom Foolery with the software was impossible. They provided audited reports which demonstrated all games were random and it seemed to sway many. While the U.S. government seems determined to keep online gambling illegal, a groundswell has developed that could provide hope for the future of the industry and particularly for poker. However, that support could end abruptly if there is any proof that online gambling's legitimacy can be compromised. It is thus imperative that Absolute Poker not look at this as an isolated situation and try only to deal with the individuals that apparently cheated. Instead, Absolute Poker, in conjunction with the software provider, must identify how and why the incident could occur in the first place to prove to the public that online gambling is not fixed. Some of the questions that must be asked are as follows:

- If people from the company look at all the cards throughout the tournaments, is that a good idea? Perhaps hands should only be reviewable once the tournament is complete. This would eliminate any concerns and make it impossible for others at the company that are monitoring the games to work with players. If, on the other hand, cards must be observed by staff on a continuous basis, what safeguards can be put into play to make it virtually impossible for shenanigans to occur?

- What background checks are done on staff, particularly those in charge of security? A report from 2 plus 2 poker forum suggested that a security manager at a companion site was involved in other suspect games. Safeguards must be put into place to make sure that everyone is monitored on a regular basis, including staff.

- What can the company do to address all stated concerns from players and improve customer service? Clearly if the company tried to address the situation from the outset rather than deflecting blame they could have stopped the negative press in its tracks. As well, the company has to look at internal policies.

- Lastly the company must determine what punishment it is willing to level on Green and Tom if it is revealed that they were indeed the scammers. Public perception in this case will be everything, and if these individuals (managers or not) are able to get away with a scam, it will bring the legitimacy of Absolute Poker along with all other poker sites into question.

Furthermore, the Mohawks of Kahnawake must look at their policy that determines who can set up servers on their territory and determine if more stringent rules need to be in force. The UK and Antigua have very strict rules that determine who can operate in their jurisdiction and they will disqualify any people they deem as unfit to operate. The forums have suggested that AJ Green ran internet scams prior to working for Absolute Poker. If this is indeed true then clearly more background checks of managers are necessary.

There are 2 bright spots in this ugly incident. First, there is relief in the fact that sports betting can not be compromised in the same manner as poker. Obviously sportsbook operators can leave town without paying, but most jurisdictions require the books to post up money covering all player accounts to avoid this circumstance. Regardless, games are time stamped and it is easy to determine if someone is cheating. Naturally the players themselves or others involved in the games can cheat as was witnessed with the Donaghy scandal and the Polish Open tennis tournament earlier this year, but the sportsbooks themselves can not fix games in any manner. Perhaps it is for that reason that Australia has banned online gambling for everything except sports.

The other bright spot relates to the island of Antigua. With all the licensed sportsbooks, casinos and poker rooms located in that country, there has not been one complaint of impropriety regarding the games. Antigua has been in operation offering online wagering far longer than Kahnawake and most of the sites are bigger. The country has assured authorities that its regulatory requirements are above reproach, which is one of the reasons so many companies are willing to pay hefty fees to operate there. In its fight with the United States over the U.S. withdrawal of gambling commitments, Antigua has pointed out over and over that their regulatory system is as effective as anything that can be found elsewhere, including Las Vegas. The fact that Antigua has offered online wagering for a full decade now with absolutely no complaints by the public seems to prove their point.

Online gambling was suspect from the beginning and with good reason. Why would anyone be willing to put real money on a hand of blackjack or Texas Hold 'Em when they have no idea what safeguards are there to ensure the game's legitimacy? Nevertheless, the general public put its trust in the betting sites and it seemed to pay off. Audits and other regulatory vices proved to the sceptics that the games were legitimate. Consequently, internet wagering grew to a $12 billion industry. There is still some hope that bills like those offered by Barney Frank will someday be accepted and internet wagering will be legal in all regards. However, this will never happen if there is belief the games or the operators are not on the up and up. For the sake of the entire industry it is necessary that Absolute Poker prove that this incident was a fluke and put in safeguards to ensure it can never happen again. As well, Absolute Poker must make examples of anyone involved in the scam, including managers if necessary. Not only is money at risk, but public trust of online gambling as well.

10-21-2007
Hartley Henderson
MajorWager.com
henderson@majorwager.com
 

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