Absolute Poker is absolutely rigged. (New evidence, near certain proof its rigged).

BBKPoker

halfway to busto
PABrogue3
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Location
Edinburgh, Seattle, Vancouver BC, Auckland
There was speculation and a previous thread, and then this monster happened today over on 2+2 (very large poker discussion forum):

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Cliff notes and timeline (all credit goes to initial 2+2 poster:

1.) Second place player (Marco) in a tournament suspects some strange and possibly colluding/cheating plays from the account that wins(Potripper), so he emails Absolute Poker and asks for the hand history of the entire tournament, gets sent an xls file that looks like utter gibberish.

2.) A couple of days later the first Absolute Poker thread that happened here and everywhere else accusing them of being rigged happens.

3.) Two weeks pass.

4.) Player shares his xls file thinking it can help shed some light even though he doesn't understand what he i slooking at.

5.) Prominent 2+2 poster who Marco shares the xls file with realizes that the file that was inadvertently sent is a complete hand history of the tournament showing every table and every hole card of every player for every hand.

Evidence? Sure.

Hand Histories are here:
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Video is here: (it's free, but you have to register. Well worth doing so to see the ridiculous plays Potripper makes)
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6.) Other 2+2 mods/long-time posters discover that the xls file also contains IP addresses and user details including email addresses of people observing the table.

7.) They discover one user, user #363 observes PotRipper's tables the entire tournament only missing two hands at the beginning where user #363 is NOT seated at the table by folding them. Potripper plays literally 100% of the pots preflop for 20 minutes not folding a single other hand until he open-folds when a player has KK behind him (clearly he understands that player will raise and he won't see the pot with his junk this time for the raised amount).

8.) The IP address for user #363 is tracked (obviously) as this player was apparently following around Potripper the suspected cheater the entire time.

9.) The track shows that user #363 uses email on an Absolute Poker server hosted by Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

Proof of that is here:
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10.) Further evidence shows that the IP matches an Absolute Poker spammer.

11.) A later poster in the 2+2 threads posts this (slightly edited for clarity):

"If you guys remember, there were two people watching Potripper's table. One is #363; the other is assumed to be Potripper. That second account's email address is scott@rivieraltd.com.

I have talked to a lot of people around the poker world about the IP address used by #363 and the rivieraltd.com email. The IP address cross-references to someone named Scott Tom, who also appears to be an owner at AP. It should also be noted that the first part of the rivieraltd.com email is "scott@". Whoever that second person is, though, their email address is scott@rivieraltd.com, and their IP (which is, as I said, the same as User #363) is identical to a certain Scott Tom's home cable modem. Pokermachine, our relentless AP spammer in the zoo, was a Tom posting from an IP in CR related to AP. The Watchdog posted from the same ip. Login Name for that user is scotttom.

END OF FACTS START OF OPINION:

Super-short version:

Absolute Poker in my mind is 100% absolute and conclusively proven to be rigged (I only thought 85% or so the first time this went public), and it looks like that money is coming direct from an owner or upper management there.

Casinomeister, it would be great to see if we can check that IP to see what accounts if any have logged onto Casinomeister with it:

IP is 66.212.244.147.

Get your money off of Absolute immediately.
 

GaryWatson

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Location
Europe
There was speculation and a previous thread, and then this monster happened today over on 2+2 (very large poker discussion forum):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Cliff notes and timeline (all credit goes to initial 2+2 poster:

1.) Second place player (Marco) in a tournament suspects some strange and possibly colluding/cheating plays from the account that wins(Potripper), so he emails Absolute Poker and asks for the hand history of the entire tournament, gets sent an xls file that looks like utter gibberish.

2.) A couple of days later the first Absolute Poker thread that happened here and everywhere else accusing them of being rigged happens.

3.) Two weeks pass.

4.) Player shares his xls file thinking it can help shed some light even though he doesn't understand what he i slooking at.

5.) Prominent 2+2 poster who Marco shares the xls file with realizes that the file that was inadvertently sent is a complete hand history of the tournament showing every table and every hole card of every player for every hand.

Evidence? Sure.

Hand Histories are here:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Video is here: (it's free, but you have to register. Well worth doing so to see the ridiculous plays Potripper makes)
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


6.) Other 2+2 mods/long-time posters discover that the xls file also contains IP addresses and user details including email addresses of people observing the table.

7.) They discover one user, user #363 observes PotRipper's tables the entire tournament only missing two hands at the beginning where user #363 is NOT seated at the table by folding them. Potripper plays literally 100% of the pots preflop for 20 minutes not folding a single other hand until he open-folds when a player has KK behind him (clearly he understands that player will raise and he won't see the pot with his junk this time for the raised amount).

8.) The IP address for user #363 is tracked (obviously) as this player was apparently following around Potripper the suspected cheater the entire time.

9.) The track shows that user #363 uses email on an Absolute Poker server hosted by Kahnawake Gaming Commission.

Proof of that is here:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


10.) Further evidence shows that the IP matches an Absolute Poker spammer.

11.) A later poster in the 2+2 threads posts this (slightly edited for clarity):

"If you guys remember, there were two people watching Potripper's table. One is #363; the other is assumed to be Potripper. That second account's email address is scott@rivieraltd.com.

I have talked to a lot of people around the poker world about the IP address used by #363 and the rivieraltd.com email. The IP address cross-references to someone named Scott Tom, who also appears to be an owner at AP. It should also be noted that the first part of the rivieraltd.com email is "scott@". Whoever that second person is, though, their email address is scott@rivieraltd.com, and their IP (which is, as I said, the same as User #363) is identical to a certain Scott Tom's home cable modem. Pokermachine, our relentless AP spammer in the zoo, was a Tom posting from an IP in CR related to AP. The Watchdog posted from the same ip. Login Name for that user is scotttom.

END OF FACTS START OF OPINION:

Super-short version:

Absolute Poker in my mind is 100% absolute and conclusively proven to be rigged (I only thought 85% or so the first time this went public), and it looks like that money is coming direct from an owner or upper management there.

Casinomeister, it would be great to see if we can check that IP to see what accounts if any have logged onto Casinomeister with it:

IP is 66.212.244.147.

Get your money off of Absolute immediately.
Typical Hearts fan. You are way behind the times:lolup:
 

GaryWatson

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Location
Europe
Considering the new info was posted in the last day or two and doesn't appear on Casinomeister, I don't think I'm that far behind :)
Not denying the Hearts allegation:D Well we are all on the same team tomorrow, erm today. Best team weave had since I can remember. Players nothing outstanding but team effort A+
 

jetset

RIP Brian
CAG
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
BBK, I want to thank you for an exceptionally interesting and informative email which helps to clarify what has been going on as this astonishing story has unfolded here over the past week or more.

This is very useful in bringing peripheral observers up to speed on what is clearly a major and developing scandal.

This sort of sleuthing and interpretive capability shows how well-armed an informed and skilled player community can be.....and that benefits us all.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
BBK, I want to thank you for an exceptionally interesting and informative email which helps to clarify what has been going on as this astonishing story has unfolded here over the past week or more.

This is very useful in bringing peripheral observers up to speed on what is clearly a major and developing scandal.

This sort of sleuthing and interpretive capability shows how well-armed an informed and skilled player community can be.....and that benefits us all.
Ditto on that.

IP 66.212.244.147 is not associated with any member of this forum. Absolute Poker never spammed here :D
 

trinox

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Location
USA
Cliff notes and timeline (all credit goes to initial 2+2 poster:

1.) Second place player (Marco) in a tournament suspects some strange and possibly colluding/cheating plays from the account that wins(Potripper)
This infamous tournament win by POTRIPPER is now available on YouTube:

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The video is split into four parts, with the next part posted as a response to the preceding one.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
CAG
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
New statement from Absolute Poker

I think Absolute are starting to awaken to how serious this crisis really is - the following is a new general press statement issued by the company:

QUOTE:

Absolute Poker Management wishes to inform the poker community of the following information in response to the most recent claims posted over the past 48 hours on the 2+2 and Pocket Fives forums wherein again it is alleged that some person or persons breached Absolute Pokers redundant and varying levels of game client security. As was stated in Absolute Pokers Official Response released on Friday October 12, 2007, Absolute Poker conducted an extensive investigation in response to the claims it was made aware of and received. The results of that investigation indicated that to the best of Absolute Pokers knowledge, information and belief there was no security breach. Specifically, Absolute Pokers internal investigation determined that it is impossible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards.

Based on the most recent claims that Absolute Poker has been made aware of and at the request of some of our players and business partners, Absolute Poker has agreed to retain a widely acclaimed independent third party auditor, Gaming Associates, to conduct an independent audit of Absolute Pokers security systems. Specifically, Absolute Poker has requested that Gaming Associates conduct a thorough and extensive review of Absolute Pokers practices and security systems to determine whether it is possible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards thereby gaining an unfair advantage. (
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)

Absolute Poker has agreed to fully cooperate with Gaming Associates and its investigative team and to provide the above with unfettered access to all systems, protocols and databases at Absolute Poker worldwide. Absolute Poker has also agreed to allow Gaming Associates final report to be made available to Pocket Fives and Bluff Media for their review.

With respect to the claims that Scott Tom, a former Member of Team Absolute Poker, is in anyway involved in wrong-doing, Absolute Poker has requested a formal investigation into that matter as well. Mr. Tom has not been involved with Absolute Poker for over a year and to the best of our knowledge, information and belief has not had access to any of Absolute Pokers systems, databases or information.

Absolute Poker reserves the right to pursue any and all remedies whether in law or equitable which may procure to it as a result of any unlawful and injurious actions taken by any individuals who may have falsified any information, documents, files, or have by other means attempted to disparage and/or harm Absolute Poker, its Players, its current or former management, employees, business partners or affiliates.

Absolute Poker shall bear all expenses related to such investigation and is eager to learn about Gaming Associates findings. Absolute Poker highly values and intends to protect its players, shareholders, business partners, and affiliates.

Absolute Poker Management UNQUOTE
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
That's good news. It looks like they've finally woken up to smell the coffee. Bringing in a qualified third party is what they needed to do a few weeks ago.

It's beyond me why they weren't all over this when the news of this first broke out. From the beginning, it's been handled very sloppily. It's like they don't know the meaning of good public relations.
 

BBKPoker

halfway to busto
PABrogue3
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Location
Edinburgh, Seattle, Vancouver BC, Auckland
I was going to do an analysis of the hands played, but someone either here or on 2+2 posted this link to his hand histories with commentary, and it is pretty astounding the plays he made only make sense if he is aware of other player's cards.

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The commentary is a little lacking in detail due to the high volume of hand histories, but is pretty accurate if simple.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
That's good news. It looks like they've finally woken up to smell the coffee. Bringing in a qualified third party is what they needed to do a few weeks ago.

It's beyond me why they weren't all over this when the news of this first broke out. From the beginning, it's been handled very sloppily. It's like they don't know the meaning of good public relations.
AP probably thought this situation would just 'go away'. I mean, we've all heard : "it's rigged" regarding one casino or poker room or another so much over the years we hardly pay attention anymore. However, the players deserve the credit for staying on this, digging deep, and being bull headed enough to make AP see the light.

Someone asked me other day if I thought AP was rigged. To be honest, I don't understand the hand histories well enough to be certain in my own mind either way. However, with as much as I've read, and seen about this... I do think something is hinky and it's well past time that AP took it under serious consideration. AP should have brought in a 3rd party weeks ago. It was obvious (to most of us) early on that this situation was not just a case of a couple of losers crying 'rigged!' because they got beat.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
What happens if the GA audit shows that it is not possible to breach security, but the hand histories show that it is statistically 'impossible' for the plays to have occured any other way?

Specifically, Absolute Poker has requested that Gaming Associates conduct a thorough and extensive review of Absolute Pokers practices and security systems to determine whether it is possible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards thereby gaining an unfair advantage.
Time will tell, I guess.
 

GrandMaster

Ueber Meister
CAG
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
Then you have to decide, whether it is more impossible that someone breached security or was given privileged access, or that someone just happened to play so extraordinarily well.
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
What happens if the GA audit shows that it is not possible to breach security, but the hand histories show that it is statistically 'impossible' for the plays to have occured any other way?
Everyone has just been assuming that the hand histories that have been posted in public are correct. After looking at the email in question, I am just not convinced it is an actual hand history record from AP.
 

pokeraddict

Webmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2002
Location
Las Vegas
Everyone has just been assuming that the hand histories that have been posted in public are correct. After looking at the email in question, I am just not convinced it is an actual hand history record from AP.

What's different? Have you found hands with the same hand #'s that are different? Are hold cards different? Boards?
 

BBKPoker

halfway to busto
PABrogue3
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Location
Edinburgh, Seattle, Vancouver BC, Auckland
For the layman (statistical idiot like me) how many zeros, or what does that number look like again? thx
# If the total deviation from the mean is +/- one standard deviation, then 68% of the cases will be included.
# If the total deviation from the mean is +/- two standard deviations, then 95% of the cases will be included.
# If the total deviation from the mean is +/- three standard deviations, then 99.7% of the cases will be included.
# If the total deviation from the mean is +/- four standard deviations, then 99.99% of the cases will be included.
# If the total deviation from the mean is +/- six standard deviations, then 99.9996% of the cases will be included.

Can you imagine what happens when we get out to 15? It is so improbable that it is functionally impossible.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
CAG
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
This story is now starting to break in the mainstream press (we issued an update on it yesterday incorporating Absolute's latest statement), and it should be noted for the record that GA is part of the Kahnawake set-up as an exclusive testing agency.

QUOTE from IGN:

Following the emergence of allegations concerning the propriety of Absolute Poker's operations, the Kahnawake Gaming Commission (KGC) said it intends to investigate its privately-held licensee.

In a written statement issued this afternoon, the KGC indicated that it will employ an independent third party, Gaming Associates, to conduct the audit.

"This week's allegations of impropriety have been brought to the attention of the [KGC]," said KGC Commissioner David Montour. "We have appointed experts to conduct a thorough audit of all circumstances, provide findings and recommendations to the commission.

"The audit will not be restricted to examining theories circulating in Internet chat rooms and fora," Montour added.

Factually, little is known about why the investigation is being undertaken though rumors of fraud and collusion have been linked to the operator. But in a brief conversation with IGN, Montour stressed that, presently, the allegations remain precisely these--allegations.
 

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