Casino City and Ecogra

[caruso]

I thought this deserved pride of place in the OC forum.

Bryan posted a challenge to the DOJ on the part of this orgaization in the industry section, and one is lead to believe this is a "repuatable" portal group. Their association with the Windows scum and these fraudulent "Ecogra" claims deserve a good airing.

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So on the one hand they claim the moral high ground by challenging the the US anti-gambling laws, whilst covertly advertising for the lowest of the bottom of the barrel RTG pond-dwelling scum on the net, and go spectacularly beyond even THAT by claiming "certification" for a company that offers a genuine dispute resolution service and appears to be genuine in that regard - my other misgivings about other aspects of their business notwithstanding. The Ecogra claim is obviously completely bogus.

This is quite extraordinary in both regards.

(Needless to say, players should go nowhere near Windows. They have a NOTORIOUS history of invoking "fraud" claims as an excuse to not pay winners.)

 

[caruso]

EDIT: Screenshot removed because it messed up the thread.

 

[The Dude]

I think some webmaster effed up. That eCogra seal shouldn't be there on that page.

 

[caruso]

Trying again with the screenshot...

EDIT: Note also the advert for Crystal Palace on the right. Friedmann and Cloud, the two most notorious operators in the stable, and stolen seals.

 

[jyde]

LOL - Netgaming is also eCOGRA certified.
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[The Dude]

It's a screwup on the webmaster's part. Looks like every casino listed at Casino City has the eCogra logo on the specific casino page, but on the main index page of the casinos - only those certified have the logos.
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[snuf419]

...and one is lead to believe this is a "repuatable" portal group. Their association with the Windows scum ...

If this one is also certified, why not Windows?
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[jetset]

Caruso's prejudice showing again - he's already posted this elsewhere on this site and is no doubt enjoying himself hugely at eCOGRA's and Casino City's expense.

As the 'Meister says, this is clearly a screw-up at CC - there is no way that Windows would pass the eCOGRA inspections.

This tremendous "discovery" was first posted by Joeyl at WOL (and probably on the Sucks site too)

 

[dominique]

Looks like the webmaster reused the same page for each listing and that base page included the ecogra sign.

Not a quick fix, either.

I want to congratulate Casino City for the guts and determination it took to file this suit. The implications for players, casinos, webmasters and general freedom of speech are huge.

 

[jetset]

Exactly - it takes some guts to stand up to the DoJ when you're a US company as Casino City is, and this is an issue germaine to the entire industry.

All the more reason why it is a pity that Caruso has allowed his petty vendetta against eCOGRA to deflect attention from this development.

 

[The Dude]

I just spoke with Michael Corfman over the phone. He found out about the screw-up about a minute before the call. It's being fixed as I type.

 

[caruso]

Caruso's prejudice showing again - he's already posted this elsewhere on this site

WTF are you talking about? I haven't mentioned this here or ANYWHERE else. And if you bothered to get your reading glasses on you'll see I was pointing out that the Ecogra seals are bogusly placed - whether by the apparent "accident" or design. Get a life, Jetset.

OK, what's going on here? This portal I've never come across before is blatantly advertising the worst crooks out there - Windows, CASINO BAR, Crystal Palace, NETGAMING - and all the industry people, Bryan, Jetset etc, are turning a blind eye?? You're all quick enough to jump on your various "enemies" when they advertise for MUCH less putrescent groups than this, but you "congratulate" these scum advertisers for carrying all these crooks?

OK, what's up with this? There's some spectacular double-standard being displayed here right now.

 

[The Dude]

WTF are you talking about? I haven't mentioned this here or ANYWHERE else. And if you bothered to get your reading glasses on you'll see I was pointing out that the Ecogra seals are bogusly placed - whether by the apparent "accident" or design. Get a life, Jetset.

OK, what's going on here? This portal I've never come across before is blatantly advertising the worst crooks out there - Windows, CASINO BAR, Crystal Palace, NETGAMING - and all the industry people, Bryan, Jetset etc, are turning a blind eye?? You're all quick enough to jump on your various "enemies" when they advertise for MUCH less putrescent groups than this, but you "congratulate" these scum advertisers for carrying all these crooks?

OK, what's up with this? There's some spectacular double-standard being displayed here right now.

Take a chill pill Caruso. There are no blind eyes here. These issues are being addressed.

 

[jetset]

If anyone needs to get a life - and perhaps a more balanced outlook too - it is yourself, Caruso.

What's happening here is that you have maliciously seized upon a webmastering screw-up at CC which has no doubt deeply embarrassed eCOGRA. You did that with the express purpose of deepening that embarrassment imo. This bona fide error has also been splashed over at WOL and probably at Sucks too by another individual with an axe to grind.

And in your determination to exacerbate the situation you also posted here in a thread which deals with the laudable efforts of CC to curb the intimidatory tactics of the D o J. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/search

If you have a problem with the casinos listed at CC then contact the owner and sort it out with him. Oh, I forgot - you never have time to do anything but shout from the sidelines.

OK, "Meister I'm retiring to my corner, and apologies for posting after your "cool it" post above - this sort of unnecessary malice just gets to me.

 

[Casino City]

I just became aware of the issue on our site with respect to eCOGRA about a half hour ago, and it has now been corrected. I feel as though I have a lot of egg on my face right now because of this mistake. We generate our pages about individual casinos, and we messed up in the code. We had it right, but had commented it out so we could migrate other changes to our website without removing the code. When we removed the comments to make it live, the result was that the seal was placed on every page, rather than conditionally on the right pages. .

The fact that it went up on the Windows casino site is even worse. We've been troubled that this disreputible casino is so high on the rankings, because it shouldn't be recommended to anyone, and the high traffic ranking serves as an implicit recommendation - which is the last thing we wanted to do. We had decided the right resolution was to award a skull and crossbones to selected casinos, and windows casino was going to be the very first one to receive this distinction from us.

 

[Sorcerak]

Hmm I wouldn't mind a Ferrari Modena...

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[chucho]

I just became aware of the issue on our site with respect to eCOGRA about a half hour ago, and it has now been corrected. I feel as though I have a lot of egg on my face right now because of this mistake. We generate our pages about individual casinos, and we messed up in the code. We had it right, but had commented it out so we could migrate other changes to our website without removing the code. When we removed the comments to make it live, the result was that the seal was placed on every page, rather than conditionally on the right pages. .

The fact that it went up on the Windows casino site is even worse. We've been troubled that this disreputible casino is so high on the rankings, because it shouldn't be recommended to anyone, and the high traffic ranking serves as an implicit recommendation - which is the last thing we wanted to do. We had decided the right resolution was to award a skull and crossbones to selected casinos, and windows casino was going to be the very first one to receive this distinction from us.

To Casino City: So am I to assume that you have removed Windows casino from your website correct? After all, you said yourself that they are a "disreputable casino" I did not take to the time to go through all the casinos you promote but I did notice that you still have Crystal Palace, Cleopatras and Net Gaming so I take it that you feel that these casinos are "reputable?" And these are all eCOGRA approved casinos? You have to be kidding me. I think that eCORGA must stand for "Entering Casino Only Guarantees Rude Awakening." Your site is criminal in my opinion. You promote casinos that no one could ever win at, Oyster Gaming, or would ever get paid at, Crystal Palace, Cleopatras etc. I am sure that a lot of people that do not know any better will get robbed by these casinos through your site and that makes you scum. How do you defend promoting these casinos that, beyond a reasonable doubt, are nothing more than a wishing well.

 

[The Dude]

I am sure that a lot of people that do not know any better will get robbed by these casinos through your site and that makes you scum.

Please chill Chucho.

Understandably Casino City is a portal that focuses primarily on listing casinos in numerous categories, and it would be less than perfect if it were to exclude the rogue-like casinos. I have suggested killing the links - or as Casino City has posted here - they will be posting warning logos/messages, etc.

Let's approach this constructively instead of getting our panties and boxers all tied in knots. There is a lot of good happening here that is being overshadowed by things that can be corrected.

 

[caruso]

To Casino City: So am I to assume that you have removed Windows casino from your website correct?

What do you think? Go and have a look.

If anyone can actually take the time to read the title I chose, you might note "...and CLAIMING them as Ecogra certified", ie. a BOGUS claim to certification, NOT a claim to bogus certification. Yes, I have serious issues with the Ecogra claims to verify software, but this is not the issue here. The issue is - or rather, was - the claim to a seal they did not have any right to. That was a mistake: fair enough.

Now please read the FIRST bit of my title: "Casino City advertising for Windows".

This portal is advertising for the worst casinos out there:

Windows: Disreputable for a long time; they've been invoking "fraud" accusations against anyone with the temerity to cash out a decent win for years.

Casino Bar (for Christ's sake): Proved cheating by Michael Shakelford two years ago. Tried to pull a lawsuit on him and failed.

NetGaming: Again, proven cheats by MS.

Crystal Palace: Managed by Warren Cloud, who enjoys telling Bryan to "f*** off" and the worst RTG operator out there, worse than Friedmann. Straight no-payers.

Repeat: this portal, Casino City, is knowingly advertising for the WORST crooks out there.

What is the webmaster response? Oh, they should be "congratulated" for taking a stance against US regulatory constraints, with a view to setting a precedent and opening the doors to greater online gambling freedom in the US.

FREEDOM FOR WHAT??

Freedom for this ripoff portal "CasinoCity" to continue to advertise for these rogue joints? Freedom for them to be able to continue using their "reputability" to send more and more players to these pond scum to be stolen from and cheated, as a result of a potentially more lenient US attitude?? Freedom to go on raking in the affilaite cash from those misinformed players directed to these rogue joints??

Is this the "freedom" you people seek?? What about the PLAYERS in all this? Do they actually count for anything at all, or is all this "player protection" stuff just lip-service to the Mighty Dollar?

This is about nothing other than money, money, money. Shame on EVERY SINGLE ONE of you for endorsing this. Portals who advertise rogue casinos are AS BAD AS THE CASINOS THEMSELVES.

I hope the players stand up and take note. This shit has got to stop.

CASINO CITY: HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY ADVERTISING FOR CASINOS ESTABLISHED AS ROGUES FOR UP TO MORE THAN TWO YEARS?

 

[Casino City]

Chuco:

The fact that a casino is listed in our directory does not mean that we promote it. It merely means that it is an online gaming site. We have a relationship with only a very small minority of the casinos listed in our directory. It is pure objective editorial content not influenced in any way by whether there is a relationship or not. I've created a firm barrier between those involved in sales in our organization and those involved in content, and the sales organization knows I will say no to any attempt to interfere with that editorial independence. Yesterday we added to our editorial content by indicating casinos that have received the eCOGRA seal, and as I discussed in my prior post, there was a bug on that front that was fixed literally within minutes of our becoming aware of the problem.

In terms of our planned actions with the Windows casino, no, we do not plan to remove it from our site. If we did that, then our directory would not be complete, and someone who was looking to find windows casino would just think it was missing from our directory. HOWEVER, what we had already planned to do, and what will be implemented within a day or two, is that we will mark Windows casino with a skull and crossbones, and remove the play link both from any lists of casinos on which it appears and on our page on the windows casino. Our view is that this will be much more effective in terms of letting players know this casino should be avoided than if we merely removed the listings.

 

[m249a]

Taking on the DOJ is a very gutsy move. I wish them well, but until we see widespread media coverage of this, and more importantly public support of their suit, I'm afraid this will wither and die quickly. Good luck guy's, if we can view porn without any reasonable restrictions then we should be able to view casino add's too.

 

[Casino City]

Chuo:

When I posted my last reply, you had not yet posted your list of other casinos. Thank you for providing a list of specific casinos you believe should be top candidates to recieve the skull and crossbones we will soon be adding to appropriate casinos on our site. We will make it a priority to examine that list, and will take appropriate action based on our review of information available to us. My presumption is that they will all receive skulls and crossbones, although obviously we will want to review publicly available material justifying that view for each of them individually.

Michael Corfman

 

[Casino City]

m429a:

The first amendment action will not whither and die. Once a suit is filed against the department of justice, you cannot just abandon it, and we would not have filed the suit without being committed to seeing it through to the end. Neither would our lawyers. We are somewhat puzzled that it has not received more widespread media attention yet, but that is really not relevant in terms of the merit of the case.

Michael Corfman

 

[dominique]

Support of such curageous action is not going to die because Caruso needs someone new to take potshots at.

I am less than amused by Caruso this time around. I am surprised to see Chucho chime in - Chucho - you have a better understanding of the industry than this.

Are you going to remove the numbers of people and places who don't meet your approval from the phonebook?

A directory is a directory.

Michael is very accomodating in agreeing to add some sort of warning, the phone book doesn't do that.

 

[amandajm]

Blimey Jetset.

I get my ass kicked at Sucks quarterly or so for defending your name etc against what I consider disproportionate views.

Just have it right Jetter eh? There is no post about this from me at Sucks. The guy asked for opinion so i looked around at his site first ~ i had it marked as a portal that pushes rogues in my mind anyway. Perfect opportunity to pull up and be me.

Me? I have been, and always will be ANTI rogue casino, PRO define the definition of rogue casino, PRO the removal of obvious rogue casinos from gambling portals on the WWW and PRO the player advocates and/or dispute resolution service providers.. Directories also thinking about it I have a view upon. Just have a directory of quality operations. Damn the rest right? Thats my "agenda" if you insist.

Havit right.

Ecogra is slightly different obviously and you have rightfully sung Carusos praises for being like a pitbull when ready. Now you just disagree with him ~ you always knew to do so is hard work.

Anyways, IF you are right about Ecogra then why lose yoir patience?

Peace.