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Bitch and Moan Update on Jetbull/Everymatrix Self Exclusion "scam" and lacklustre eCOGRA response

Discussion in 'Sportsbook Complaints' started by Daz_b, Feb 12, 2016.

    Feb 12, 2016
  1. Daz_b

    Daz_b Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    I.T.
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Hi All,

    Back in November I posted a thread covering an issue I had with Jetbull, which is part of the Everymatrix stable. The thread can be found at this link;

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70171

    Basically what happened is that I joined Jetbull in good faith, (using my standard credentials), deposited £75, and over the course of the next 24 hours placed in the region of 15 bets and got my balance up to £700.

    When I tried to withdraw some of the balance, my account was soon frozen. After 5 days of non-response from Customer Services, I was informed that because I had previously self-excluded from "Favourit" (which is part of the "Everymatrix family") I would be barred from using Jetbull and would only get my £75 deposit back.

    My complaint is that Jetbull/Everymatrix should have blocked me from joining in the first place (I believe this is standard practice with other operators) as basic ID checks can be done in seconds. Having accepted my bets, they should have honoured them.

    Furthermore, there may be some double-standards at play, because I had also self-excluded from another Everymatrix-related site, "Superlenny". This predated any involvement with Favourit or Jetbull. A search on the UK Gambling Commission website shows that Superlenny is licenced via Everymatrix for betting, although it is also licenced via Betit for casino operations.

    Interestingly, I didn't make a withdrawal from Favourit but was never offered my approximately £850 deposits back, which perhaps I should have been if the policy from Everymatrix is that exclusion from one of their sites = exclusion from all of their related sites. If they are serious about player protection, which is supposedly their stance, then why this double-standard?

    I took my complaint up with eCOGRA. I must admit though, I don't think they are a great advert for "self regulation" in my experience. They did not live up to the claims on their website of keeping you informed at least every other week. I heard nothing for a month. I chased and received a response saying "we will email Jetbull". I then heard nothing for another month and sent a polite email asking if the complaint was being looked at, and this was ignored. I left it another month and followed up again and eventually received a response.

    I get the impression that eCOGRA took a very "light touch" approach to their investigations. Basically accepting the response from Everymatrix at face value and not even bothering to check the Superlenny licensee details on the UKGC website.

    For information, here is the eCOGRA response to my complaint against Jetbull/Everymatrix. Others in a similar position in the future may find this helpful;
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "We have investigated your dispute with Jetbull and made the following findings:

    The operator’s system runs checks on player information at registration, however this can take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours depending on traffic.

    Your account was blocked within the first 12 hours from registration and the operator has returned your deposits in full. *

    The terms and conditions from all EveryMatrix managed sites show them as the license holder - as such players should be aware that Jetbull and Favourit are operating under the same license.

    In regards to Superlenny, they operate under Betit Group license. Their website and terms and conditions clearly reflect this.

    I believe that EveryMatrix has provided you with a screenshot from UKGC website which shows Superlenny under Betitit Group. EveryMatrix only provide software for them which they use to put games on their website, there is no other connection. **

    Bearing the above in mind we are confident that the operator has acted in accordance with their terms and conditions and as such I must inform you that we find your dispute to be invalid."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    * They did not block my account within the first 12 hours, it was nearer to 24 hours.
    ** Actually, a simple search on the UKGC website for Superlenny licensee returns Everymatrix and Betit.

    This should act as a warning to players using self-exclusion. Don't do it because you think a site is "crap" or "unlucky". Only use it if you don't want to place a bet ever again in your life because it can be used against you if you win with another operator/site. You don't know who will bring it out of the woodwork when you try to claim your winnings.

    Also my case, in my opinion, demonstrates the lack of integrity from a lot of these small-time operators. I cannot imagine a big player like Ladbrokes having such questionable and dodgy practices.

    eCOGRA, in my opinion, have their self interests at the heart of what they do. And that is, being paid by operators to take the heat when they have shafted a player. They are clearly in bed with the operators, else they would have no income. This lack of independence is a problem.
     
  2. Feb 12, 2016
  3. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    Well this subject has been gone over time and time again in the forum. EM casinos are notorious for NOT checking a player at sign up for SE. And I do not think as bad as it is there is anything you can do to get them to pay you what they owed. It is the in the terms and conditions so no matter if we agree or not your screwed. EM have had this issue on going for what seems like forever.
    The casinos that use there system are totally inept at not actually having a system which checks at sign up if a player has SEd before they actually deposit. A total farce.

    Rule is NEVER play any EM run site ever until they sort this crap out - which I dont see them doing any time in the near future.

    When ever I see EM on a casino I move on quickly. They are a total joke along with the casinos that operate under them on this point.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Feb 25, 2016
  5. JetbullCasino

    JetbullCasino I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Occupation:
    Marketing Manager
    Location:
    Europe
    SE Procedure Explanation

    Jetbull respects players’ decision to activate the self-exclusion procedure. For us, it is important to acknowledge their choices as well as fulfilling our duty of care towards our players. We are constantly attempting to improve the entire process of self-exclusion. At this moment, automatic system checks are constantly being performed, verifying the databases for self-excluded player accounts.

    However, since we discovered a number of players that try to exploit the self-exclusion procedures by entering different details that those they used initially in their registration, a decision has been made to improve this process by asking for additional manual checks for each self-exclusion request. For this reason, a self-exclusion request is now analyzed and handled by a support representative that checks each player’s details, such as: name, surname, e-mail address, credit card details, etc., a process which implies more time.

    Information about self-exclusion, its implications and enforcement are available both in the Terms and Conditions of the website and in the Responsible gaming section, which informs about the expectations players should have when and if they should choose to enter into a self-exclusion agreement. We encourage players to carefully read all information which is made available to them in order for them to understand player protection and to make an informed decision when either opening an account, or when they request to enter into a self-exclusion agreement which may affect multiple accounts that they may hold with other casinos. We are using our best efforts to enforce self-exclusion in a timely fashion, however self-exclusion implies a certain responsibility from the player’s side, as well, as illustrated above. Therefore, each case of self-exclusion is treated individually, based on the applicable rules and policies, since each case may be subject to different circumstances. However, we would also like to emphasize that we have every interest to keep our players satisfied and treat every complaint we receive fairly.
     
  6. Feb 25, 2016
  7. Daz_b

    Daz_b Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    I.T.
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Misleading response from Jetbull

    There's a claim here that automatic checks take place when a player registers. This implies that I may have tried to circumvent the self exclusion checks for example by using a different email address to normal. Nothing could be further from the truth. What sort of checks might these include? Obvious things would be email address, name and date of birth, postcode. All of the credentials I used when I joined Jetbull were standard credentials that have not changed for many years. If you have information to the contrary I challenge you to provide this either on the forum or by private message. I can also provide correspondence from Jetbull regarding this issue, none of which suggests I used any form of ID to bypass SE checks. As I was that I had excluded from a partner site I had no reason to consider this anyway. Therefore in my experience Jetbull do not put their customers first. They treat their customers very badly.
     
    2 people like this.
  8. Feb 25, 2016
  9. Daz_b

    Daz_b Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    I.T.
    Location:
    Newcastle
    I'm sorry for the double-posting, but can I just say, nobody from Jetbull, Everymatrix or eCogra seems able to put themselves in my position. I like a bet. Often I lose. When that happens, I take it on the chin. I've never once in my life gone crying to a bookie asking for my money back. That would be wrong. But this is different - this is £700 which in my mind I won fair and square. That's a lot of money to me. It's a holiday with spending money. Or a months rent, etc, etc. And I'm just really angry and anguished that there could be such a lack of integrity and a lack of basic human decency and fairness.
     
  10. Feb 25, 2016
  11. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Right, Superlenny (yes! it is out-of-date on the UKGC licensee lists) are in fact under the Betit licence in the UK, which also includes Kaboo and Thrills casino. You may find at the time they weren't EM.

    But you've hit the nail on the head. I personally spoke to a UKGC solicitor about the EM SE scam and the UKGC are aware of it and are 'looking into it' but there are problems obviously.

    1= Player apathy. They lose and get deposits kept, win and only get a deposit refund and don't complain to eCogra or a dispute resolution service enough.

    2 = It's a government creation. By definition it will be inept, slow, reactive and un-incentivized to improve anything. They simply won't be proactive and see that the actions of these sites would be considered unlawful or terms unfair if applied in other areas of commerce, i.e. finance or retailing.

    The fact that the EM sites are unwilling to provide an up-front and obvious all-inclusive term which actually specifies their related sites from which SE would prevent you from cashing-out winnings ensures this scam continues.

    Bryan/Max (Head Honchos here!) are onto it as it's this casino-no-lose situation that is causing so many PABs and complaints like yours at present. CM can act as far as this forum/site are concerned, but for those like yourself who weren't aware until they came here the scam will continue to claim victims.

    It's easy for EM to cross-reference sign-ups. They won't until forced to because taking no-lose deposits is simply too profitable for them.

    IMO if and when (zzzzzzzz......) the UKGC gets its act together EM should be hit with swingeing fines for this. Of course they won't, because it's the lack of clarity and specificity from the UKGC that's allowed them to get away with it thus far.
     
    3 people like this.

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