Malta-licensed sportsbook, I have a problem and I need help

[asa70]

Hello, I am new to this forum. I have created this account because I have a problem with a certain casino/sportsbook (which I am not going to name for now). I live in Italy and I started betting (mostly sports betting) with them in 2022. They have a MGA license. For almost 2 years I have deposited around 1.5k euro with them and never had big issues withdrawing money, except for the standard KYC stuff. But December 2023 I started with a fresh deposit of 200 (plus 100 bonus) and managed to turn it into 2900 euro, which they refused to pay me. They required so much personal information and documents in the last 2 weeks that I started to feel like I am being audited by the Agencia del Entrate (basically the Italian IRS). I have been communicating with them for 10 days now and in the end they accused be of breaking some rules about Personal accounts, basically saying that I am laundering money or receiving money from someone else and placing bets on their behalf (which is absolutely ridiculous). I am opening this thread because I wanted to know if I can share this information here and open a PAB while also writing a complaint to eCOGRA, or should I wait for their response before seeking help from Casinomeister? Thank you.

 

[maxd]

Hello,

Sorry to hear of your casino troubles but TBH we're hearing more and more of that these days from Malta-licensed casinos.

That said, let's try to address your questions.

__IF__ eCOGRA is the casino's designated ADR -- if so they'll be named in the Terms in the Complaint or Disputes section -- then having your case with them means we're pretty much off the table as a possible future stop for you (the PAB process). This is primarily because the designated ADR is considered the last word by most casinos, especially Malta-licensed casinos, and that means that as far as the casino is concerned talking to us after the ADR has ruled would be a waste of time: the decision (as they would see it) has already been made so we'd just be an annoyance after the fact.

As to sharing info here on the forums of course you're free to do so BUT:

• be careful not to post too much info: protect your privacy and identity at all times.
• if you debate your case out in public the casino may well be less inclined to want to discuss it later in private.
• discussing a case in public and the PAB process are mutually exclusive: you have to choose one or the other, though you're free to post __after__ the PAB process has completed and a decision has been given.

I hope that answers those questions. If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Player Arbitration (PAB) Manager, Casinomeister.com

 

[asa70]

Hello,

Sorry to hear of your casino troubles but TBH we're hearing more and more of that these days from Malta-licensed casinos.

That said, let's try to address your questions.

__IF__ eCOGRA is the casino's designated ADR -- if so they'll be named in the Terms in the Complaint or Disputes section -- then having your case with them means we're pretty much off the table as a possible future stop for you (the PAB process). This is primarily because the designated ADR is considered the last word by most casinos, especially Malta-licensed casinos, and that means that as far as the casino is concerned talking to us after the ADR has ruled would be a waste of time: the decision (as they would see it) has already been made so we'd just be an annoyance after the fact.

As to sharing info here on the forums of course you're free to do so BUT:

• be careful not to post too much info: protect your privacy and identity at all times.
• if you debate your case out in public the casino may well be less inclined to want to discuss it later in private.
• discussing a case in public and the PAB process are mutually exclusive: you have to choose one or the other, though you're free to post __after__ the PAB process has completed and a decision has been given.

I hope that answers those questions. If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Player Arbitration (PAB) Manager, Casinomeister.com

thanks for the reply, Max! Another thing I want to ask is about the whole anti-money laundering and source of income procedures and if those gambling operators have the right to ask for such excessive personal information like your whole transactions list (of your bank account, e-wallets etc) for periods of 6 or 7 months ? Is this lawful or they are simply using it as a tactic to slow the whole process down hoping you will gamble away your funds ?

 

[maxd]

Good question, but you won't like the answer. They can ask for blood samples and your baby footprints if they really want to be difficult about things because the Malta rules say something like "the casino can pursue KYC/SOW issues as they feel necessary". In other words it can be hellish.

- Max

 

[asa70]

Good question, but you won't like the answer. They can ask for blood samples and your baby footprints if they really want to be difficult about things because the Malta rules say something like "the casino can pursue KYC/SOW issues as they feel necessary". In other words it can be hellish.

- Max

I am wondering what my chances are with eCOGRA. I know I have not broken any rules, I am not receiving money from anybody or laundering money (which is simply laughable). The only thing the casino may see as weird in my transactions are money going between me and one of my sons' paypal, which I am doing so he can send it back in my PayPal balance (PayPal doesnt allow to top up your balance with a card directly). That way I get to use my PayPal balance online instead of using my MasterCard (I avoid using it when I can, I dont know if its possible but I am afraid someone can steal my card information). If eCOGRA fails to help me I may consider taking legal action, I dont see any other way. There is no reason I should give up on the money I have won fairly.

 

[maxd]

Again, it depends if eCOGRA is the designated ADR. If they are _not_ then they'll likely say "no can do" and send you on your way. If they _are_ the designated ADR then you can expect them to give you a fair hearing.

That said, if they rule against you or for some reason you take exception to their ruling the courts are your next stop. That'll be Malta courts and ... well, let's just say that Malta is a "complicated" place and their courts are no exception.

- Max

 

[asa70]

Again, it depends if eCOGRA is the designated ADR. If they are _not_ then they'll likely say "no can do" and send you on your way. If they _are_ the designated ADR then you can expect them to give you a fair hearing.

That said, if they rule against you or for some reason you take exception to their ruling the courts are your next stop. That'll be Malta courts and ... well, let's just say that Malta is a "complicated" place and their courts are no exception.

- Max

Yes eCOGRA is the designated ADR. The casino told me in their last email that I should write to eCOGRA if I dont agree with their decision. I can start an European small claims procedure against the casino. I don't see how I can lose a case where they are saying that I broke some rules because I have sent or received money from a family member (who does not have an account with them or any other company related to them). Just writing this seems ridiculous, I don't know what a judge would say when he/she reads it. They are literally confiscating my funds for a made up reason.

 

[maxd]

... I don't see how I can lose ...

If I were you I would get a professional opinion on that before proceeding. What a lawyer (who knows what they are talking about) sees and what a normal human sees can be very different things. Justice may be blind but it speaks in legalese and that's not a layman's game on a good day.

Assuming you already have a decision from the casino that you disagree with I would kick off the eCOGRA process without delay. It's not going to hurt your legal options and the chances are very good that if eCOGRA supports your side of the case the casino will give in and settle. But please note that "chances are very good" is not the same as "certainly". Casinos have been known to disagree with eCOGRA and force the legal option.

- Max

 

[asa70]

If I were you I would get a professional opinion on that before proceeding. What a lawyer (who knows what they are talking about) sees and what a normal human sees can be very different things. Justice may be blind but it speaks in legalese and that's not a layman's game on a good day.

Assuming you already have a decision from the casino that you disagree with I would kick off the eCOGRA process without delay. It's not going to hurt your legal options and the chances are very good that if eCOGRA supports your side of the case the casino will give in and settle. But please note that "chances are very good" is not the same as "certainly". Casinos have been known to disagree with eCOGRA and force the legal option.

- Max

it says in the auto-reply I got from eCogra when I sent my complaint that I can make a written request to them to cease the mediation at any time. Can I do this and start a PAB here, and later go back to eCogra if you cant help? Would they allow me to contact them later again for the same problem? Or is it overall a stupid idea?

 

[maxd]

Honestly I don't know eCOGRA's policies on starting, stopping and then wanting to restart a case. They would be the ones to ask.

Personally if my eCOGRA case was already in progress I'd let it run to completion. Too much messing about is likely to produce unsatisfactory results.

- Max