vip cashback still no playtime

[AussieDave]

Dave, you are an impressive voice of reason. You could almost pass for human!
I enjoy reading your posts.

Thank you takethemoney

I'm sure the wife thinks I'm a robot, wont go into details


Cheers



Dave

 

[RedAndi]

Understand it's a blunt and crude email and all that.

What I am not really getting is why the casino passed it along to CM.
He wasn't PAB'ing or anything was he?
If it was a "omg, check this out" between people who know each other (CM and the Lock rep), then I get it....If not just wondering why Lock would be passing that around.

 

[AussieDave]

What I am not really getting is why the casino passed it along to CM.
He wasn't PAB'ing or anything was he?
If it was a "omg, check this out" between people who know each other (CM and the Lock rep), then I get it....If not just wondering why Lock would be passing that around.

I always maintained a rule never to divulge a PM. Unfortunately I chose to post a series of PM's when the AU fiasco blew up in my face. I can't take that back and in hindsight I shouldn't have let my emotions rule my thinking.

What I'm saying is, I'm in no position to be pointing fingers at anyone.

However it seems that posting emails to public forums is an accepted practice, just as chat transcripts are also. Still...I don't think it was the right thing of LockCasino to send an email to Bryan regardless of the content or divulging the content.

It's a bit like a player posting a chat transcript from a casino. Whilst in that same chat threatening the casino to post the chat to the CM forum...Get it...Now how many CM members have done this and been hauled over the coals because of it? A few I can tell you.

Where is the difference, IMHO there is none.

If it offended the Casino personnel and the casino manager; if it was me, I'd have locked TonyT account and told him he's no longer welcome at the casino.

However did Lock casino do this? I doubt it...
Because I'm sure we would have heard about it by TonyT by now!

Personally it show a lack of professionalism on the part of LockCasino or whoever contacted Bryan with this email information. I just don't see this as being productive or beneficial towards LockCasino.

It could very well be counter productive.
Peeps may start wondering what other information & or data LockCasino is sharing without their knowledge or consent.


Cheers



Dave

 

[maxd]

FWIW, the report from Lock originally came to me. Why? Because this guy was obviously 'on tilt' and Lock knew he was on our forums. It was a courtesy and a heads-up.

If one of our membership sends any of you, or anyone for that matter, hateful and abusive stuff like TT sent Lock I would encourage you to report it as well. Stuff like that is not 'personal', it's an abusive attack plain and simple and should be reported. As far as I'm concerned it's 'community watch' and what good citizens do for one another.

If you disagree feel free to not avail yourself of the opportunity but I do not and will not apologize for raising a flag on this: it was not only the right thing to do but it was the smart thing to do given that TT was asking to be given an official role here at Casinomeister.

 

[AussieDave]

Hi Max,(All),

Reiterating I don't approve nor condone the email TonyT sent to LockCasino.

However that's a moot point in relationship to personal information being shared & disclosed without knowledge, consent or approval from TonyT the LockCasino customer.

As I see it there are a number of issues that have been bunched together to justify the actions of LockCasino, its Rep and posting this information to the CM forum, for the world to see.

Attempts to condone these actions are identical to saying Two Wrongs make a Right. When the saying goes...Two Wrongs Don't make a Right...

Issue #1 - abusive email to LockCasino
What a customer chooses to send to a casino is between the customer and the casino.

Unless TonyT signed up accepting his information being transferred and or shared between the two entities (CM & Lock) or (submitted a PAB) or gave permission to Lock to pass this information on to the CM forum, Lock casino was obligated by it's own click wrap agreement between the parties of TonyT and LockCasino to keep any and all user data and information private.

Issue #2 - Posting of TonyT's email content
Like it or lump it, TonyT's privacy has been seriously undermined. Both by Lock Casino and the CM Forum.

Issue #3 - TonyT LockCasino account termination
Did Lock close TonyT's account before reporting this incident?
If they didn't, why not?

If LockCasino found the email offensive they could lodged a formal complaint with TonyT's ISP. That would be the correct protocol.

However disclosing this information to Max, this info being added to a post, seems nothing more than a childish payback from LockCasino to TonyT by way of using the CM forum; Max and Bryan.

With the double standards taking place here on a daily basis, the quasi justification for actions by staff for deleting posts; locking threads and other actions that seem to have filtered into the CM forum of late; armed with a do as we say not as we do mentality, I'm not surprised in the least that CM members are short fused; angry; upset and fighting between each other.

In Closing
The CM awarded casino of the Decade is admired and respected for its sartorial online casino management and day to day operations.

Not in my wildest dreams could I imagine Pat or Ed disclosing such information about one of their players (regardless of any factor or player action/s) to the CM forum, much less any other web site. Without prior consent from the player.

Further more being OK with this information being posted to a public forum

IMHO LockCasino and the people involved here at CM that made this information available owe Tony an apology for breaching his personal data and information.

I would hope this thread is not locked; I'm not given a ban or TonyT's membership at CM is not canceled.

However given the current status qou here at the CM Forum, it seems anything is possible...


Cheers



Dave

 

[maxd]

Sorry you see things that way -- on several counts -- but abusive hate mail is not just regular communications and shouldn't be treated as if it is. If players, and casinos, don't want to be caught out for crappy behaviour then don't behave crappily. Like I said, it's a community watch situation IMHO and I support it. You think differently ...

This idea that it's all very proper and there are clearly delineated lines of protocol and so forth is basically pipe dreams: we share info back and forth because overall it helps us do our jobs better and protect our interests. In this case, as in most such cases, no personal data was shared and I see no violation of Lock's privacy agreement. When the industry is properly and formally regulated feel free to vote for legislation that says what we should and should not discuss. Until then we do the best we can do and there you go.

Frankly I think there's a whiff of hypocrisy in your protests given that if the situation was reversed, if a casino person was sending such emails to a player, I reckon there wouldn't be a micro-pause in the applause for outing the offending person, regardless of "private communications" and suchlike. I think most of us could probably dig up cases where this has in fact happened. I know I've dealt with such cases here. And then it's all "yes, quite right, very brave of you" and all that, regardless of when or where the offending actions took place. For you to start trotting out chapter and verse here is ... what can I say? Bang a gong I guess: I think you're making a point for the sake of having a point to make. The reality and substance of your stand look pretty darn flimsy to me. Again, differing opinions it would seem.

As to bannings and so forth I'd say the TT issue is evolving. What his despicable behaviour on and off the forums has got to do with you, and others here, and so forth is a puzzle to me but there you go I guess, to each his own.

That said, for you to start making statements like "given the current status here ... anything is possible" and so forth ... wow, that's a low blow. We've always given you the greatest respect as far as I've seen, I know I have. What we've done to inspire statements like that from someone like you ... boggles the mind really. Very disappointed to see that, very disappointed indeed.

 

[AussieDave]

Although our opinions are clearly divergent on what privacy issue pertain to, and are represented by the casino and for the player, legally your argument is grossly flawed.

And before sprouting semantics; attempting to derail; dilute or discredit either TonyT or anyone who also believes in my opinion...

LockCasino like all other casino's maintains and accepts that every player agrees to their Terms & Conditions; Bonus Rules/Conditions; Privacy Statement...ect...ect

The CM forum is filled with threads that use these exact agreements between the player and the casino to establish disputes. For, against or neutral outcomes.

Therefore when the CM forum; its owner; Mods and casino/s use the aforementioned agreements (between player and casino), ALL contracts/agreements, including the casino privacy statement should not only be honoured but should also be defended with the same gusto.

Edit: I sure hope LockCasino; currently in the Baptism by Fire section, was not trying to award itself brownie points. Or received preferential treatment on the basis of their current position held at CM.



Cheers



Dave

 

[maxd]

And before sprouting semantics; attempting to derail; dilute or discredit either TonyT or anyone who also believes in my opinion...

Since when did we become the enemy? Jeez Louise Dave, who shit in your cornflakes?

(what's the emoticon for 'gob-smacked'?)

 

[AussieDave]

Since when did we become the enemy?

I'm perplexed as to why you'd think standing up for what's right and just, makes me the enemy


Cheers



Dave

 

[maxd]

What's with the semantic games?

You said: "And before sprouting semantics; attempting to derail; dilute or discredit either TonyT or anyone who also believes in my opinion..."

To me that would be the action of someone who is hostile to you, or whomever. Hence it makes sense for me to ask why you would think we are now that enemy.

And your reply is "standing up for what's right and just, makes me the enemy"? WTF has one got to do with the other? Where did I say you were "the enemy"? Have we said or done something that particularly offended you or is this just a general thing? Hell, am I the one that ruined your cornflakes? I honestly have no clue where this is coming from.

Either we've got a major league misunderstanding going here or ... what? You've decided that we're Public Enemy #1 or something? Seriously, it sounds like you are trying (really hard) to create a misunderstanding or spat. I can't imagine why you would want to do that.

I seriously do not get where you're coming from on this, aside from why you might think that outting an abusive whack-job suddenly represents the biggest civil rights abuse case on the forums.

Did you find some new friends recently Dave? Cause it sure sounds like someone is stoking your fire for you.

And to address an earlier question re: "preferential treatment" for Lock. Like I've clearly and plainly said, anyone who receives abusive crap like that is welcome to bring it forward. Players have done it and now, for a change, a casino has done it. Where's the "preferential treatment"?

Again, I think I must have missed something because as far as I know the casino in question has gained nothing from this. Actually the reverse is probably true in that this casino, and others that might be tempted to report such unconscionable behaviour, are now seriously wondering whether it's worth the hassle and headache given the outrage it apparently provokes in some of the membership. I seriously doubt whether that is a step forward.

 

[Casinomeister]

Just to nip this in the bud, it was my decision to call the player out on his abusive email. It has nothing to do with Lock Casino, Max, or anything else.

The casino reps wanted to give us a heads up that TonyT had sent their customer service rep a threatening and abusive email. Since the player is starting to post about not liking the casino in public, I decided to call the player out on this. Simple as that.

Would you feel any different if this was a player member who received an abusive email from one of the casino reps here? I think people would be screaming to the hills about that.

Everyone has every right to call people out on this - that's my opinion.

And we are talking about memberships here. Everyone participating in this forum is a member, and we expect our members to treat one another with a certain level of civility. This maybe really foreign to some people, but whenever you are dealing with human beings - you are dealing with the real world.

If you are bothered that a casino rep shared with us an email from one of their players, well I'm sorry that this troubles you. But I think the severity of the abuse overrides any email privacy privileges.

 

[AussieDave]

I think the severity of the abuse overrides any email privacy privileges.

Interesting concept.

Not sure how that argument would sit directly against the original Privacy Terms agreed to by the OP and Lock Casino though.

Seeing we're at this ethical cross roads...I take it you'd also agree that (given similar circumstances) the same goes for private PM's too?

Of course if you don't agree, I'd be interested to know why?


Cheers



Dave

 

[dcpam39]

Would you feel any different if this was a player member who received an abusive email from one of the casino reps here? I think people would be screaming to the hills about that.

You are absolutely correct, however, the difference is that the player member would have posted the offensive email. In this instance Lock sent the email to you, instead of posting it themselves in response to Tony's comments.


Pam

 

[Cant_Get_Right]

Just to nip this in the bud, it was my decision to call the player out on his abusive email. It has nothing to do with Lock Casino, Max, or anything else.

The casino reps wanted to give us a heads up that TonyT had sent their customer service rep a threatening and abusive email. Since the player is starting to post about not liking the casino in public, I decided to call the player out on this. Simple as that.

Would you feel any different if this was a player member who received an abusive email from one of the casino reps here? I think people would be screaming to the hills about that.

Everyone has every right to call people out on this - that's my opinion.

And we are talking about memberships here. Everyone participating in this forum is a member, and we expect our members to treat one another with a certain level of civility. This maybe really foreign to some people, but whenever you are dealing with human beings - you are dealing with the real world.

If you are bothered that a casino rep shared with us an email from one of their players, well I'm sorry that this troubles you. But I think the severity of the abuse overrides any email privacy privileges.

Bryan you can spin it or justify it all you want to. But you are WRONG WRONG WRONG to post TonyT personal info between a casino and a public forum. And Lock casino is equally wrong for sending it to you. TonyT stated he didn't even mention you or casinomeister.com in his email to lock casino. If lock casino is willing to share his personal email to you. I'm willing to bet Lock will sell it's members personal data to 3rd sources also. IMHO lock casino has breached the player's right to privacy. And this casino should be avoid. Like I said. If they are willing to share a player personal information with you. They maybe willing to sell their players personal information to "those" parties that will interested.

 

[Cant_Get_Right]

Interesting concept.

Not sure how that argument would sit directly against the original Privacy Terms agreed to by the OP and Lock Casino though.

Seeing we're at this ethical cross roads...I take it you'd also agree that (given similar circumstances) the same goes for private PM's too?

Of course if you don't agree, I'd be interested to know why?


Cheers




Dave

Maybe the PM here aren't so private as one may think!
Just like the song by Hall and Oates sings:
Private Eyes
they're watching you
they see your every move
Private Eyes
they're watching you
Private Eyes
they're watching you watching you watching you watching you

 

[AussieDave]

Where I have referred to the OP I was meaning TonyT.

I'll put the confusion down to...threads that should be split are not and the threads that shouldn't be split are...go figure


Cheers



Dave

 

[TonyT]

Since i am at the center of this i think i need to ring in.

First off i want to thank Bryan and max for not banning me and i hope it isnt in the works to do so. I have not only told them how much i like this site i have also mentioned to other members and non-members how you are allowed to speak your mind here.

As far as the email i sent to them, no matter what was said in it my privacy was breached, and there was not a single word in there refering to CM forum or anyone who runs it.

My few posts on the forum about them was about my "personal playing experience", which was nothing more then what other members were saying about there site.

I bet they never mentioned about how i made over 10+ posts on another forum praising them, kissing there ass and telling anyone who would listen how they were they next best thing to sliced bread, even posting SS's of my cashier section showing how fast they payout but when things were being said that was not in the casinos best interest they go and get defensive and make public a private matter. They didnt have to close my account i asked for it to be closed before the email was sent to them and the only response that was said in the chat was "ok" and then the next thing i see is "session terminated". That right there told me they really didn't care about there players as to ask why i wanted to close my account or anything in that manner.

I will agree that my language was way out of line and for that part i am sorry.

At 1st i had no idea how the casino even knew it was me from my user name here, my user name and email are totally different there then they are here then i thought of how they found out and i am pretty sure its because the Admin at another forum i use to work for is a member here and on this site all the time lurking and reading posts.

I do hope i am not banned and want to continue as a member here.

Thanks.

Tony

 

[diamondale]

What private Information?

There was nothing posted about tony t no address no email, no private info,
And the language he used cunt,dick,fuck etc i would also bring that to someones attention i agree with bryan. They are only human the customer support reps you threatened them u need to treat them with respect. Sending that kind of email is just disgusting in my book.I have had my words with cust reps but never using foul language.Your mom needs to wash your mouth out with soup.Take a valium next time,.

 

[TonyT]

There was nothing posted about tony t no address no email, no private info,
And the language he used cunt,dick,fuck etc i would also bring that to someones attention i agree with bryan. They are only human the customer support reps you threatened them u need to treat them with respect. Sending that kind of email is just disgusting in my book.I have had my words with cust reps but never using foul language.Your mom needs to wash your mouth out with soup.Take a valium next time,.

If i am gonna get attacked for a PRIVATE matter ofc i am gonna defend myself.

You say that no "private info" was posted??????

Thee entire email was sent to max and part of it was posted here on the forum thats about as private a matter as you can get.

 

[maphesto]

I have to say this even if this is an issue between Lock, TonyT, Casinomeister and perhaps if I could read between the lines in Tony:s post..Zuga?

I do think that Tony learned his lesson. Let it stay with that! No use to continue about it.

About the main issue in the Tony case(go public about his email), there is no correct answer to this. Everyone have their own opinion. We all understand AussieDave and we all understand Bryan when he says that the severity of the abuse overrides any email privacy privileges.

Let it be!

 

[TonyT]

Just to nip this in the bud, it was my decision to call the player out on his abusive email. It has nothing to do with Lock Casino, Max, or anything else.

The casino reps wanted to give us a heads up that TonyT had sent their customer service rep a threatening and abusive email. Since the player is starting to post about not liking the casino in public, I decided to call the player out on this. Simple as that.

Would you feel any different if this was a player member who received an abusive email from one of the casino reps here? I think people would be screaming to the hills about that.

Everyone has every right to call people out on this - that's my opinion.

And we are talking about memberships here. Everyone participating in this forum is a member, and we expect our members to treat one another with a certain level of civility. This maybe really foreign to some people, but whenever you are dealing with human beings - you are dealing with the real world.

If you are bothered that a casino rep shared with us an email from one of their players, well I'm sorry that this troubles you. But I think the severity of the abuse overrides any email privacy privileges.

Bryan i have no problem with you or anyone "calling me out", i have been at this online and offline betting game long enough to know how it works.

What i am upset about is that it should have NEVER gotten back to you, max or any other forum at all.

If someone was to call me out on this matter it should have been the casino, and you know what? They NEVER responded to the email i sent them instead they go and run and cry to max and who knows who else about what was said. That right there is where they messed up.

I want to be the 1st to throw a shovel of dirt on this topic but i think it might help others to realize that a email to a casino is NOT private in there eyes.

 

[TonyT]

I have to say this even if this is an issue between Lock, TonyT, Casinomeister and perhaps if I could read between the lines in Tony:s post..ZUGA?

I do think that Tony learned his lesson. Let it stay with that! No use to continue about it.

About the main issue in the Tony case(go public about his email), there is no correct answer to this. Everyone have their own opinion. We all understand AussieDave and we all understand Bryan when he says that the severity of the abuse overrides any email privacy privileges.

Let it be!

Yes this is the person who has some kind of personal vendeta against me.

He is in charge of ANOTHER forum yet he is on CM all the time, and you know why?

Because CM is the best gambling forum out there and he is trying to steal everything that is going on over here. The Thank you button, CM had it and now so do they and many other things as well.

Leason well learned in sending any casinos ANY kind of email at all, good or bad.

 

[AussieDave]

Hi All,

I believe it was stated on the original Marty Davis thread but I ain't searching for it...So I'll paraphrase.

Don't let personalities influence principles.

For me this threads put to bed.



Cheers



Dave

 

[Pinababy69]

You are absolutely correct, however, the difference is that the player member would have posted the offensive email. In this instance Lock sent the email to you, instead of posting it themselves in response to Tony's comments.

Pam

Just one member's perspective...I would never have posted that email, no matter who it came from. I would definitely have forwarded a copy of it to Bryan, Max, Simmo, Webz...or anyone else who would listen.

Lock Casino (and all other reps) are members of this forum. And no one should have to put up with that type of abuse, publicly or privately. I'm sorry, but the only one who did anything wrong here (IMO only) is TonyT. If losing gets you this worked up, you need to find yourself another hobby. That is absolutely disgusting. And I have no problem with the fact that Lock forwarded that email to Bryan.

Were I to write something like that to another member (casino rep or just public member), I would fully expect to be at the least suspended...perhaps permanently banned.

Aussie, you know I think the world of you, and consider you a friend (few and far between)...but in this particular instance, you and I are going to have to agree to disagree.

No one should have to tolerate that kind of abuse, publicly or privately...whether they work for a casino or not. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. Tony, I know you've apologized....but in my experience, someone who can go off the way you did...will more than likely do it again. Were it my forum, you'd be gone. Again, just an opinion.

I can be a pain in the ass with reps and casinos....just ask em, lol. But never would I write something like that. Beyond disgusting.

 

[TonyT]

I am glad you spoke your mind Pinababy69 but what is not being realized in this situation is that a PERSONAL email was devoluged to another.

How would you or anyone else like it if something "personal" of yours was let out into the public? Its like you telling your cell phone provider off and they go and tell a cell phone forum owner what you told them.

It is out in the open what my words were to the casino so ofc people who dont like those words are going to be pissed off, but it should have NEVER been brought out at all, they didn't even have the balls to confront me is another HUGE problem.