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Resolved Horrible Experience at Tropica Casino - Rival

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by bowlingbob, Dec 14, 2014.

    Dec 14, 2014
  1. bowlingbob

    bowlingbob Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    usa
    Years ago I said I would never play another Rival casino again given how shady and sketchy most of them are. Yet I've been keeping an eye on the Tropica -Baptism by Fire thread and reading most of the glowing reviews of the casino.

    I decided to give them a try with a $30 deposit and using a 100% match with a modest 20x WR. I made sure to read the terms carefully. They have a 10% max bet rule on the deposit only. I made sure to go to the banking tab and check the minimum for withdrawls which is 100 which is important to me if I'm making a small deposit that I'm not going to have to chase some crazy minimum withdrawl like some casinos offer. The one bothersome thing is the only withdrawl option is Wire Transfer. There is NO mention of any fees on either the website or in the software so a player can assume that there is no fee's with this option, otherwise it would be stated.

    On to playing, I played a mixture of mostly slots and some blackjack as thats a game I fancy a lot. I was very careful not to go over the bet size of $3 on any game. Maybe some of you might see where this is going. After some luck and decent play, I was able to make wagering with a balance of $140. Now I understand the bonus money isn't cashable so that leaves me with $110 and I know from my bank's website that they charge a $15-20 International Wire Transfer Fee so that leaves around $90.

    I contacted Dieter on here because many have said he is very easy to work with and is very active with the members. Indeed he was able to get back to me quickly with some concerns I had with filling out the wire transfer because the casinos requires a SWIFT code to process the transaction. My bank and many other smaller banks in the U.S. DO NOT have a swift code. This part of the conversation kind of broke off because Dieter informed me the casino charges a $50 fee for a wire transfer under $250. That's nice to know because no where on there site does it mention that otherwise I simply would not have made a deposit to begin with. This should be a warning to any of you that decide to play here that if you decide to play with a small amount bonus or not and choose to withdrawl a $100-$250 balance your money WILL get eaten up by fees once it's made its way to you.

    So in my example, I was left with $140 to withdrawl - $30 bonus - Tropica Casino $50 wire fee - $15-20 bank wire fee - 3% intl bank fee to make the initial deposit I would be left with about $40 only $10 above what I put in. WASTE OF TIME. I can't imagine how disgusted people that play their free chips with the $100 max cashout rule must feel when they finally make the wagering and put in for the withdrawl what they actually end up with in their banks after all the fees.

    So after getting no where with Dieter on this because simply put a casino that WANTS to be accredited here should offer the customer transparency with regards to fee's by posting the schedule on their website or in the software. The response back was that it is indeed stated in the software there may be fees however I provided him a screen shot of his software where he told me to go look and nothing is listed. He responded back to me that it's on their back end the rules regarding cashouts for USA players and laid them out nicely for me in a PM. That's nice they back office can see them but the player cannot. Very unprofessional and unacceptable.

    After realizing the fees would eat up nearly all my balance that I had I regretted having to play on to achieve over $250 in order for the wire transfer to be free payout. Almost immediately I hit a $200 bonus on a $2 bet that put me over that threshold. I submitted all the documents and used my other bank that does have a SWIFT code however I was reluctant to use that because I prefer for many good reasons like other US players to keep separate accounts for online gaming.

    After all that hassle, I get the dreaded email where the casino pulls the FU clause and denies your payout. In the email they stated I broke the max bet rule of 10% by placing wagers of more than $2.50 but wait I deposited $30 so $3 should be the max bet. I went to the live support with a very unfriendly agent who explained to me it didn't matter if it was $2.50 or $3 I broke the rules by playing blackjack at $3 a hand and arrogantly told me to manage my bets more accordingly.

    So you ask how did I break this rule because like I stated earlier I was very careful not to place any bets over $3 however in the game of blackjack there is the split and double down option which really is a SEPARATE bet the way the game is played. This is a predatory reason to deny the winnings and imo rogue outfit to allow the user to play Blackjack on a bonus but limit his bets to a total of 10% of his deposit. So with a $30 deposit realistically my max bet was only $1 if I wanted to split or double down. That's really pathetic and the ONLY reason they allow the player to play these table games on the bonus is so later they can come back and deny the withdrawl. Simply put I've played blackjack for 20 years mostly in the casino and when you place a bet and you are dealt A,A for example you place a separate bet besides the original bet and the hand is split to two hands. Same with doubling down, your bet is placed besides your original bet and you are given one card. Therefore it is a separate bet. Adding the bets together is a rogue way of enticing the player to break the max bet terms while playing a table game while on a bonus as some hands you are dealt in blackjack can be split up to 4 ways with double down opportunities when following basic strategies of blackjack. This is a predatory practice that I would expect only rogue casino outfits to employ to deny legitimate winnings to players. This casino and all others who use terms similar to these SHOULD BE AVOIDED.

    In closing, I know as a USA player we don't have many options but there are certainly much better places where you don't have landmines waiting for you fall into and be denied your winnings. Based on the ridiculous unstated wire fees and predatory terms Tropica Casino should be avoided. Don't be like me and believe everything you may read on here in other threads. My initial read on Rival casinos years ago was they were all rogue outfits and after my hard lesson learned today that feeling hasn't changed one bit.

    As a side note, I recently took a gamble last month and deposited $20 into Cleo's VIP room, inadvisable I know but it was only $20 and using a welcome 400% match(which was cashable) with no max payouts I successfully withdrew $5,000. While they did have a max bet term also of 10% however it was based on deposit + bonus and it DID NOT apply to blackjack where I was making bets on multiple hands of up to $100 per playing spot and had a good run. Yes the cash out process was pretty slow it took 3 weeks to receive the first payment but I wouldn't hesitate to play there again.

    Take care and sorry for the long rant but just felt I should share my awful experience at Tropica Casino and help other players who may be on the fence about playing there another players perspective to the many positive reviews listed on this site.
     
    9 people like this.
  2. Dec 14, 2014
  3. muziq

    muziq Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    govt
    Location:
    in your heart
    i dont play black jack so i dont know about the bet but reading this and all the efforts you put i think you should have been paid

    yesterday i accidentally placed a 50 euro spin on slot at guts where max bet was 7.5 i didnt won anything on that spin but later placed a withdrawal of 700

    which were processes thats how a good casino do things

    saying that in another casino casino.com i placed one bet over max bet and they void my winnings of 700 so as you can see its upto casino

    tropica seems to be a nice casino even though it failed in baptism of fire and dieter is a good rep so hope he can sort out

    yes me too dont rate their customer support good they seems arrogant
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Dec 14, 2014
  5. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    1st of was blackjack allowed with the bonus you took? Thats probably why the chat host told you it does not matter how much you bet, As that would make it auto void, Also there are a verry few chat host that actuall know things, I think most are there just to make things look good,
    Belive me, Dieter does not mess about & if you broke no rules than you would have no troubles, If it was the £3 bet that broke the rules than please add a screen shot of the 10% max rule as this would be out of order if there was a max limit of £2.50 hidden somewhere,

    I agree that them fees for withdraw are very high, $50 is about £30 and as a low roller thats a couple of deposits for me,

    Do let us no,
     
  6. Dec 14, 2014
  7. paul7388

    paul7388 Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    not a lot
    Location:
    glasgow scotland
    Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. Personally if I lived in a country that had such high fees on withdrawals and all the hassle involved I would give up as its not worth the stress.

    But a couple of points, I do not know the rival bonus rules great as do not play there and never will. But you said that every casino you play gives doubling up at Blackjack as a separate bet. Sorry but obviously not being in USA I have more casinos available and nearly every casino that has a max bet says doubling up and gambling wins etc. are not allowed under bonus rules or its classed as exceeding max bet. And many casinos do not even allow using table games etc. as part of bonus rules.

    Anyway hope you manage to get it sorted out.
     
    2 people like this.
  8. Dec 14, 2014
  9. Lucky Loser

    Lucky Loser Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Professional paper pusher.
    Location:
    Near Cronulla Beach
    Agree with the poster. I stay well clear of this casino because of their onerous and complex T&Cs. Much better casinos out there in my opinion.
     
  10. Dec 14, 2014
  11. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    There has recently been another thread whereby a player fell foul of the doubling-down/max bet rule, which WAS in the casino's terms. I would imagine it's in Tropicas too. Same as doubling a win on a slot's gamble if applicable.
    As for bank fees they can only be expected to state theirs in their banking section and cannot quantify what yours will be.
    I agree with your sentiment though that pitfalls of the bonus make it a minefield for the player to take, and players here should refer to a well-explained post like yours.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. Dec 14, 2014
  13. gagamel

    gagamel Professional smurf hunter MM

    Occupation:
    Care Manager
    Location:
    Switzerland
    You can see the rules when you take the bonus. DoubleUp not allowed.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    9 people like this.
  14. Dec 14, 2014
  15. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants


    Yes just about every site has the rule, Normally in bold, I do like the way they sneaked it in between games low :) but any one that plays should no the rule
     
  16. Dec 14, 2014
  17. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    Unfortunately, given the circumstances you've laid out, the outcome would have been the same regardless of USA facing casino you played. Bonuses are fraught with minefields, and playing BJ on a bonus (non-specific to BJ) is pretty much asking for trouble.

    My last couple of withdrawals (sometime early last year) cost me at least $130 each time - and these were from accredited RTG casinos. A USA player has to have a rather substantial withdrawal (after subtracting for fees out the wazoo, and removal of the bonus) to make it worth the hassle and expense. Personally, I don't enjoy the merry-go-round anymore.

    You have my sympathy, but all that can be done is perhaps give a heads up, and emphasize that online players must make themselves aware of all T&C, bonus terms (particularly max bet and max withdrawal caps), withdrawal fees, etc. and stick to them to the letter when playing online.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Dec 14, 2014
  19. homerbert

    homerbert I-Gaming Industry Representative webby

    Occupation:
    nothing :)
    Location:
    middle of Europe!
    look at bitcoins guys, there is much more less fees for you.
    And yeah, rules is rules , unfortunately.
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Dec 14, 2014
  21. Googobucs

    Googobucs Meister Member

    Occupation:
    IT Manager
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Unfortunately we have seen this issue with Black Jack play now numerous times over the past few months at many casinos. It's not something that is unique to Rival or Tropica.
    Bonuses in general are very rule driven and unfriendly toward Black Jack so if that is your game of choice I would not use bonuses at all or get very familiar with these types of terms because you will find them a lot.

    I personally knew about the $50 fee and I do recall reading it at some point, but I play at this brand a lot. I don't find any mention of it now and agree that fees should be posted.

    Did you PM Dieter about the double up bets? Was it a lot of bets or just a few ? You should ask him to reconsider and review your play. It never hurts to ask.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Dec 14, 2014
  23. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    Another say, As bert mentioned do try another way such as bitcoin, I personaly do not use as no need to over UK, But as a small roller and them high fees in cured I just would not be able to afford to play, One good thing is US has a good land based casinos, All I get is a local gambling hall with about 30 machines in there, There is a casino but about ten miles so not exactly round the corner, Also most the pubs been closed down as used to like to nip out for a beer and a few quid in the machines but all smashed down now, I can count at least 7 pubs demolished in the last 3 years and more go abanded, Any person intrested than google post code NN8, Terrible, whats the world coming to,

    They stooped smoking in pubs & thats when they all closed, Put aload of tax on smokes and drink, Also droped the % on drinks, Than the dodgy government got there hands on the 15% profit from UK online gambling, I can go on as it does not stop, Be getting charged for going for a shit before long
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Dec 14, 2014
  25. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants
    I can see where your coming from about was it a few times about double up, As a freind used to own a private club (until he got greedy) and nether took a win as used to just hit the gamble till the £250 come in, If it was just a few times like 1 gamble to try double your money quick than really it should be over looked (but rules are rules) if it was a constant doubling up again & again than the blame cannot really be put on any casino, Just my shout but rules are verry clear
     
  26. Dec 14, 2014
  27. bowlingbob

    bowlingbob Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    usa

    Hi thats nice of you to post the terms of the bonus. However, that is DoubleUp. In Blackjack, when you get a 10 or 11 it is called Doubling Down. In Video Poker, when you get a pair for example the software gives you an option to Double Up your win. I imagine the reason Double Up is excluded because for example, you could take a small $1.25 win in video poker and double it up to several hundred dollars on what is a non house edge bet. That is when you employ the double up feature on video poker, the house has no edge as it is considered a 50/50 gamble and could be very exploitable when taking a bonus. So therefore, I did not break the terms as you say.
     
    3 people like this.
  28. Dec 14, 2014
  29. rockycatt

    rockycatt meistercatt CAG MM

    Occupation:
    carpenter
    Location:
    Boston
    as the holiday is quite near it would be a nice gesture if the casino would offer to restart the session its not a lot of money for them but good P R

    good luck to all R C
     
  30. Dec 14, 2014
  31. bowlingbob

    bowlingbob Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    usa
    By the way, this is the email I got very shortly after making the withdrawl. They didn't even take the proper security measures to double check or maybe even have a manager review the withdrawl. Again, I deposited $30 so my 10% max bet is $3 not 2.50 They made a snap decision within a hour of the withdrawl to refund the deposit based on a $25 deposit which I did not make.



    We regret to advise you that your withdrawal has been canceled for the
    reason / s as follows:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    5.9 Promotions where a bonus of up to 1000% Percentage is granted, the
    maximum bet is 10% of the deposit amount. You placed 293 bets above
    $2.50 (10%)

    As you are a first time depositor, we have refunded your deposit.

    Thank you for your understanding,
    Tropica Payments
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Dec 14, 2014
  33. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants

    If thats the case than there should be no excuse, Maybe translation got lost between the team, One may have said you broke terms, Due to the doubling down and when they passed on the message the next person may have thought max bet, I say thought as any one that read my threads no I have no time for chat hosts, Well the majority of them
    You mentioned doubling down and its a 50/50 shot but considering machines are only around 97% pay back that is alot of difference, I do not play card games so canot qoute about the this but now you have the email to say the reason is due to the bet over£ 2.50 than you should have a case
     
  34. Dec 14, 2014
  35. bowlingbob

    bowlingbob Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    usa
    Yes but when I went to the live chat right away after receiving that email.

    22 : 33 : 46 (Customer Care): Here is the email that was sent explaining why:
    22 : 34 : 01 (Me): yeah i got the email
    22 : 34 : 08 (Customer Care): 5.9 Promotions where a bonus of up to 1000% Percentage is granted, the maximum bet is 10% of the deposit amount. You placed 293 bets above $2.50 (10%)
    22 : 34 : 15 (Me): my deposit was $30 therefore the 10% is 3.00 and I did not go over that
    22 : 35 : 00 (Customer Care): 205346341336967 205346341337613 205346341339136 205346341339704 205346341340183 205346341341449 205346341341673 205346341342562 205346341343076 205346341344467 205346341345484 205346341367082 205346341368371 205346341368505 205346341368644 205346341369127 205346341369788 205346341369901 205346341370724 205346341371004 205346341371155 205346341447741 205346341529033 205346341552608 205346341552917 205346341554282 205346341555102 205346341555309 205346341559147 205346341562146 205346341563468 205346341564509 205346341565614 205346341567933 205346341570180 205346341570579 205346341611970
    22 : 35 : 59 (Customer Care): Those are the transaction numbers of your $6 bets
    22 : 36 : 09 (Customer Care): You can check this in your cashier
    22 : 36 : 24 (Me): i never played a bet higher than $3 on blackjack
    22 : 36 : 42 (Customer Care): I have provided you with the transaction numbers above
    22 : 37 : 01 (Customer Care): 205346341343076 - was a $9 bet
    22 : 37 : 17 (Me): i probably made a double down
    22 : 37 : 25 (Customer Care): If you like, I can send you screenshots
    22 : 37 : 27 (Me): which is a seperate bet
    22 : 37 : 34 (Customer Care): sorry - not screenshots
    22 : 37 : 45 (Customer Care): , but spreadsheet
    22 : 38 : 36 (Me): sir with all due resepct in regard to the game blackjack
    22 : 38 : 59 (Me): if i bet $3 and the dealer offers an 11 for me to double down, i place a seperate $3 wager to double down the cards
    22 : 39 : 44 (Customer Care): The Max Bet allowed is 10% of the deposit amount
    22 : 39 : 56 (Customer Care): I.e. the MAX TOTAL BET is $3
    22 : 40 : 07 (Me): so why do you offer the blackjack game with the deposit bonus
    22 : 40 : 13 (Customer Care): It's up to you to manage your bets accordingly


    It's clear they used the Max Bet rule to disqualify the win irregardless of that erroneous email I got with the 2.50 as the 10%. Now as he puts it "I.e. the MAX TOTAL BET is $3" Maybe thats the way their terms online should be worded then or just simply NOT allow the customer to play the blackjack on the bonus because I played the game how it was meant to be played per basic strategy and that involved putting separate bets out there to split or double down when the situation arises. I in no way tried to maliciously break their max bet terms or I wouldn't be here posting about it.
     
  36. Dec 14, 2014
  37. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    Have you talked to Dieter after you were denied your cashout?
    Maybe you say if you have somewhere in the thread but I'm too lazy to go back and read it again.

    If not then you should do that. Tomorrow, since it's Sunday today.

    Edit: Removed what was looking as if I agreed with the op.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
  38. Dec 14, 2014
  39. spintee

    spintee Meister Member webby mm2

    Occupation:
    gambler :)
    Location:
    Northants

    I can see where your coming from now, I have had a dable at cards but my luck on them is worse than machines, If I am correct its like playing 21 and dealer gets ace and ask you do you want to buy security, if already betting £3 that means going over the threshold, So in my understanding that the extra bet was same game but am extra game, (if you get me) I can see where the casino has pulled you up on, As mentioned not many chat host do no about the game plays, actually they would not if a full size fruit machine drooped on there head what it was,

    They have looked at your game play and seen the £9, they see diffrent there end, and only see the bet and out come, In all honestly its splitting hairs really, You can try telling them this to your blue in the face and and stooped breathing, I do not no what Dieter said to you but I think he should look again, But do note that any regular player should really no not to risk when you have a bonus in play no mater what, It is terrible when it happens But try speaking to Dieter again, Try not to get frustrated with help even low most no jack shit
     

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