Duelz.com Enhanced Due Diligence (EDD) & Withdrawal

[unhappycustomer]

Hi All,

It looks like I might run into problem with this casino as I am now in withdrawal phase.

I received an email on 25th of March 2024 asking me to submit Bank Statement and Salary so that they can verify my account and carry out affordibility review. This had gone to JUNK folder and I had completely missed it until today when live chat customer service team said I need to provide EDD documents. All live chat customer service prior to this said to just wait....

I deposited £4500 to this website on 24th of March 2024 (£500, £2000 and £2000). I lost it all that day and stopped playing here as I was lucking out.

There was a promotion/offer at that time on blackjack tables for being first - £1000 / second - £500 and / third - £100. The cash back was as real balance - free to withdraw.

I logged onto my account on 08/04/2024 and played with the £500 real balance and with luck reached £7600 from playing free bet blackjack tables over.

As I started to lose, I withdrew £6750 from this website and patiently waited.

I spoke with live chat and it was only after third time they said they needed documents from me in an email and the documents I uploaded on the website is not acceptable for them to carry out EDD on.

"In order to better facilitate the process, we no longer accept Enhanced Due Diligence documents through our website. Please submit the documents as attachments in a reply to this email. Alternatively, you can email the documents directly to the team for review using dutyofcare@duelz.com."


I have been gambling on many sites all around, is this a reason as to why my withdrawal may get confiscated? My March Deposits have been approximately - £82k and withdrawals of £79k.

I am aware of the responsible gambling tools at my disposal and use it when needed but can a company confiscate winnings because of playing on multiple sites?

I have sent all the required documents to the company and confirmed with live chat they have received it. Currently, patiently waiting for their response.

What is your thoughts?

 

[L&L-Jan]

What is your thoughts?

If the bank statement does not show 3rd party incoming transfers which are used on the gambling site? It will be a walk in the park. You might get limited in deposit limits after they conducted affordability/disposable spend accordingly. If there are 3rd party transfer incoming on the statement that seem to be used to fund the gambling: more questions and proof will be asked.

 

[unhappycustomer]

If the bank statement does not show 3rd party incoming transfers which are used on the gambling site? It will be a walk in the park. You might get limited in deposit limits after they conducted affordability/disposable spend accordingly. If there are 3rd party transfer incoming on the statement that seem to be used to fund the gambling: more questions and proof will be asked.

Hi Jan,

Thank you for the response.

I have to say I was nearly at wits end with L&Ls EDD at pubcasino when I tried to withdraw and that was the reason I created the account here to reach out to you as I saw you were quite active here. I hope Duelz don't take me to that point.

Majority of the transactions in the gambling bank account are from deposits and withdrawals to casino sites. When I won big, I'd transfer the money out to my main account but when I lost remaining balance in gambling account, I'd transfer it back from my main account.

There is no third party person involved other than the casinos I have been gambling at.

 

[unhappycustomer]

Just to add to this post, on my account portal, it shows there is £1 withdrawal made after my withdrawal request which is showing as Approved but it’s not in my bank account. Neither do I remember requesting this.

I wonder what it is…

 

[jasonuk]

So unfortunately you've anti-freerolled yourself here.

In other similar threads I would point out they should still pay any balance at the point of CDD or EDD request if you declined to complete the procedure. The size of your deposits is going to be the trigger in the first place, and unfortunately you missed that notification and continued playing - so any winnings after that point now require you to complete that procedure and those winnings may be at risk if you refuse.

As long as you can prove the funds are legitimate then they should pay you, but you might have to jump through hoops if that involves a lot of larger gambling transactions (as it sounds like) and that could take some time.

It's somewhat alarming that sites are still asking for people to send highly sensitive documents via email* - and probably a breach of their GDPR obligations. It wasn't acceptable a decade ago and it certainly isn't now - another thing the UKGC should be acting on, but doesn't.

(* There are projects underway to encrypt email in transit, but this is very much a work in progress - looking at the google transparency report, they suggest 1 in 6 outbound messages from their platform couldn't be encrypted last year, and will also vary wildly by provider).

 

[unhappycustomer]

So unfortunately you've anti-freerolled yourself here.

In other similar threads I would point out they should still pay any balance at the point of CDD or EDD request if you declined to complete the procedure. The size of your deposits is going to be the trigger in the first place, and unfortunately you missed that notification and continued playing - so any winnings after that point now require you to complete that procedure and those winnings may be at risk if you refuse.

As long as you can prove the funds are legitimate then they should pay you, but you might have to jump through hoops if that involves a lot of larger gambling transactions (as it sounds like) and that could take some time.

It's somewhat alarming that sites are still asking for people to send highly sensitive documents via email* - and probably a breach of their GDPR obligations. It wasn't acceptable a decade ago and it certainly isn't now - another thing the UKGC should be acting on, but doesn't.

(* There are projects underway to encrypt email in transit, but this is very much a work in progress - looking at the google transparency report, they suggest 1 in 6 outbound messages from their platform couldn't be encrypted last year, and will also vary wildly by provider).

Dang really? In other websites they usually suspend the account or put it on hold when they see a problem. That way you cannot continue to play if they have any issue. They didn’t do that here.

Appreciate that they may have concerns but I can choose to gamble in as many institution as I want, no?

I don’t have any issue surrendering the information they need. I have already sent main account statement for March with payslips corresponding to it and the gambling bank account statement for March. I am fully legit. Salary comes into Account A and gambling activity is on Account B.

There is transactions between Account A and B and in account B there is lots of deposits and withdrawals from casino sites as you win in one place but lose in other. Again nothing dodgy, all legal.

I don’t see any reason why withdrawal should be rejected even if they see it as a concern as if I had lost them they would not have cared or refunded the money.

The way I see it is at worst they can chose not to do business with me for their reasons but I can always go somewhere else as there is lots of sites I can play on anyways.

If only UKGC bloody provided clear guidelines saying the withdrawals should be released within X days or reported to action fraud then it would get rid of all these issues


Below is the email I had missed due to it going to junk folder



As a licensed operator in the UK, we carry out certain checks on player accounts to ensure a safe playing environment for our players, in line with our licence conditions. We would like to ensure that you enjoy the highest standards and that your gameplay is safe and fair.

Therefore, we are performing an affordability review on your account. In order to process this step swiftly and smoothly, we ask you to carefully read and follow the requirements for each requested document below.

Please make sure to submit high-resolution photocopies only and to include all 4
corners of the documents on the photos.

In order for us to conduct our review, we would like to request the following:

• Bank statement - Full transaction list from your bank account for the period of the last 30 days, including the deposits made to our website. The document shall be submitted in the original PDF or paper format, without filtering the transactions.
• Salary - A recent payslip and a matching bank statement showing the salary being credited to an account in your name. Please submit the documents in the original PDF or paper format.

In order to better facilitate the process, we no longer accept Enhanced Due Diligence documents through our website. Please submit the documents as attachments in a reply to this email. Alternatively, you can email the documents directly to the team for review using dutyofcare@duelz.com.

All documents will be checked and handled safely by our security team. For any questions regarding the verification, you may contact our customer service via live chat.

Meanwhile, we would like to also recommend you try out a self-assessment test. There are also various self-assessment tests available that can help you to have a better understanding of your gambling habits. By taking a self-assessment test you can also receive tips on how you can control your gaming in a better way. You can take the test by clicking

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

Thank you for your continued cooperation and understanding.

 

[unhappycustomer]

If they don’t pay then I guess I could try PAB if possible for that site else alternatively they provide me with the refusal to withdraw letter and I go to arbitrator that they subscribe to. Pretty sure there will be one as they’re registered with UKGC.

Is there any guideline from UKGC in these cases? Can they actually refuse the withdrawal

 

[jasonuk]

Dang really? In other websites they usually suspend the account or put it on hold when they see a problem. That way you cannot continue to play if they have any issue. They didn’t do that here.

A lot of sites do the opposite, because they can use the AML regulations as a strongarm tactic. At a bare minimum they should inform you immediately, and inform you of your rights and responsibilities, sadly many sites don't and defer until withdrawal (and the UKGC appear to ignore the practice even though their own guidance forbids it).

Appreciate that they may have concerns but I can choose to gamble in as many institution as I want, no?

I don’t have any issue surrendering the information they need. I have already sent main account statement for March with payslips corresponding to it and the gambling bank account statement for March. I am fully legit. Salary comes into Account A and gambling activity is on Account B.

There is transactions between Account A and B and in account B there is lots of deposits and withdrawals from casino sites as you win in one place but lose in other. Again nothing dodgy, all legal.

From an AML perspective, yes - if you have all the paperwork and are willing to provide it then it should be a matter of time (although that may go into weeks if there are a lot of questions to answer).

From a RG perspective, they may have more concerns - so they can impose deposit limits or other controls on your account.

I don’t see any reason why withdrawal should be rejected even if they see it as a concern as if I had lost them they would not have cared or refunded the money.

The way I see it is at worst they can chose not to do business with me for their reasons but I can always go somewhere else as there is lots of sites I can play on anyways.

If only UKGC bloody provided clear guidelines saying the withdrawals should be released within X days or reported to action fraud then it would get rid of all these issues

That's why I'm mentioning the anti-freeroll, they do have UKGC guidelines for AML - which includes "freezing" the balance at the time of the CDD/EDD request.

The customer-side guidance is pretty minimal, but the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

is more useful. If you refuse or cannot complete CDD/EDD they must terminate the business relationship with you (they don't have a choice), but also that (emphasis mine):

• if CDD cannot be completed, then the operator must proceed in line with regulation 31(1)(c) and terminate the existing business relationship with the customer
• if funds are to be repaid, then the amount repaid should consist of all funds owed to the customer at the point that the threshold was reached, plus all deposits made at that point and thereafter

Since that occurred on 24th March - it means you don't have much of a choice I'm afraid. I would expect most/all of those winnings will be locked pending the CDD outcome - there might be a question about the second and third deposit if there was a rollback but operators don't like people trying to freeroll them so could be T&Cs to protect them from that scenario.

 

[unhappycustomer]

Thanks @jasonuk, the AML issue seems to be BS in my eyes as reading through what it says, I could lose the withdrawal?

Only money at the point of request and further deposits need to be paid out it seems.

I do remember the live chat saying I had 30 days to provide documents (if that helps)

 

[unhappycustomer]

Patiently waiting for this process to be over. Perks of joining new place to play

 

[L&L-Jan]

the AML issue seems to be BS in my eyes as reading through what it says, I could lose the withdrawal?

If you didnt breach any terms, you wont lose that withdrawal. I dont see a casino voiding wins due to their AML process. They want to complete it too, with as less questions to be asked and min amount of proof to be provided.

If what you state earlier is true, in regards to your bank statement. It should be a walk in the park. Bear in mind that such verification process is not dealt with as the same speed as a KYC request.

So if you did provide all they requested, give it a day or 2 and you should be verified.

 

[unhappycustomer]

If you didnt breach any terms, you wont lose that withdrawal. I dont see a casino voiding wins due to their AML process. They want to complete it too, with as less questions to be asked and min amount of proof to be provided.

If what you state earlier is true, in regards to your bank statement. It should be a walk in the park. Bear in mind that such verification process is not dealt with as the same speed as a KYC request.

So if you did provide all they requested, give it a day or 2 and you should be verified.

Thanks for the response Jan, gives me some hope. I guess the other way to look at it is people only post when they have negative moments and there will be many who wouldn’t have any issues.

 

[johnnymcc1966]

The £1 charge is what they charge for deposits. If you are having a problem contact the PAB, @maxd and the team here will give you help but follow the rules closely or it will be voided.Good luck.

 

[maxd]

@unhappycustomer , we're usually more than happy to help our forum members with their casino issues but unfortunately Duelz is 100% "talk to the hand" about these things, meaning they won't discuss player complaints.

That said, if you'd like us to give it a shot for you you're welcome to use our complimentary Player Arbitration (PAB) service. Here's a guide to getting started with that: How to submit a Player Arbitration (PAB) Ticket - Casinomeister Forum

If you do proceed please ensure that you have read and will comply with the Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures . Failure to comply with the rules could slow, damage or even cancel your PAB.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Head of Dispute Arbitration & Player Complaints (PABs)
Casinomeister.com

 

[unhappycustomer]

Thank you @maxd. That is an option I have banked for now. If they dont engage with you guys, i am sure there will be plenty of support should ai need to escalate to arbitrator from the gamblers and casino reps here on forum!

 

[unhappycustomer]

Spoke with live chat team just now and this was the conversation. Waiting until Saturday morning else will raise complaint if the payment is still showing as Pending. I’ve lost loads on online casinos and not been this stressed. It feels like someone is beating me and I cannot retaliate back.

Funny enough the free spins and promotions email are still coming from Duelz

Betty
Hey there, thank you for contacting us! My name is Betty and I'd be happy to help you with your query. How can I be of assistance today?
You
Hi there Betty
is there any update on my account verification?
Betty
Please let me check
You
Does the team work 24/7 or during normal office hours only
Betty
Thank you for your patience.
From what I can see, your account has been verified
Regarding your withdrawal request, please note that greater withdrawals, needs more time to be processed.
You
How long is needed? I don’t understand why the withdrawal is being held

You
Can you please escalate this. I have provided all the documents required
Betty
It shouldn't take more than 2 days.
Your case is already escalated.
I have pinged the the payment department to make another check.
You
so in the next 2 days the payment will be released?
Betty
It should be.
You
Is there any reason that you think of why it might not be as ‘it should be’ didn’t come with the confidence lol
Betty
As per my previous message, greater withdrawals, needs more time to be processed.
You
Mm ok but the verification process is complete and it is just a case of payment department releasing the payment as per your above message and as a favour you have pinged them for me right?
Betty
Correct.
You
Thank you Betty

 

[unhappycustomer]

Hi All,

Good news for me, the money just landed in my bank account.

It also came with a nice email as follows. I wasn’t planning to continue to play with them anyways!

I still have £1.50 balance which I will be chasing them to send to my account also.



Hello XXX,

Thank you for providing all the requested documentation, everything has been accepted.

Your pending withdrawals of £6,750.00 have been sent to the relevant department for processing.

However, taking into consideration the information you've provided, we've performed a quality and assurance check on your account that took into consideration multiple financial, demographic and statistical factors.

Please be advised that as a result of our duty of care obligations, we have permanently excluded your player account.

Please note this feature applies cross-brand. Therefore, you will not be able to access any other accounts on other brands/sites owned and operated by SuprPlay Ltd. We would also ask you to refrain from attempting to open any other accounts as this may result in forfeiture of any funds deposited or gambled.

We do understand that this is not the outcome you’ve expected, however, it is an action taken with your best interest in mind.

If you feel you may need assistance with your gambling, we would like to recommend you to visit the following pages and seek advice from these independent organizations:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Besides these, we would like to recommend you to register with GAMSTOP, the online self-exclusion register available in the UK. GAMSTOP lets you put controls in place to restrict your online gambling activities by self-excluding you from all licenced operators in the UK, for a period of your choosing. For more information, simply follow the link here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

Finally, we would also recommend that you contact any other casinos you may have registered with so they may also permanently self-exclude you and ensure you do not gamble with them as well.

We would like to take this opportunity to wish you the best in your future endeavours, and please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further inquiries.

Best regards,



All in all, I cannot recommend this casino. If you have issues, you can use Resolver to make an initial complain as they won’t talk to third party regarding your complain (only you). Using resolver doesn’t stop you from going to Arbritrator if required.

It seems lots of people are having issues with them. This is also evident in feedbacks on AG and Casino Guru site.

I am very happy I am done with them and it’s ended positively for me.

 

[DreamRJ]

Hi All,

Good news for me, the money just landed in my bank account.

It also came with a nice email as follows. I wasn’t planning to continue to play with them anyways!

I still have £1.50 balance which I will be chasing them to send to my account also.



Hello XXX,

Thank you for providing all the requested documentation, everything has been accepted.

Your pending withdrawals of £6,750.00 have been sent to the relevant department for processing.

However, taking into consideration the information you've provided, we've performed a quality and assurance check on your account that took into consideration multiple financial, demographic and statistical factors.

Please be advised that as a result of our duty of care obligations, we have permanently excluded your player account.

Please note this feature applies cross-brand. Therefore, you will not be able to access any other accounts on other brands/sites owned and operated by SuprPlay Ltd. We would also ask you to refrain from attempting to open any other accounts as this may result in forfeiture of any funds deposited or gambled.

We do understand that this is not the outcome you’ve expected, however, it is an action taken with your best interest in mind.

If you feel you may need assistance with your gambling, we would like to recommend you to visit the following pages and seek advice from these independent organizations:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Besides these, we would like to recommend you to register with GAMSTOP, the online self-exclusion register available in the UK. GAMSTOP lets you put controls in place to restrict your online gambling activities by self-excluding you from all licenced operators in the UK, for a period of your choosing. For more information, simply follow the link here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

Finally, we would also recommend that you contact any other casinos you may have registered with so they may also permanently self-exclude you and ensure you do not gamble with them as well.

We would like to take this opportunity to wish you the best in your future endeavours, and please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further inquiries.

Best regards,



All in all, I cannot recommend this casino. If you have issues, you can use Resolver to make an initial complain as they won’t talk to third party regarding your complain (only you). Using resolver doesn’t stop you from going to Arbritrator if required.

It seems lots of people are having issues with them. This is also evident in feedbacks on AG and Casino Guru site.

I am very happy I am done with them and it’s ended positively for me.

It is just crazy really the UKGC have ruined it for everyone. All because they are trying to protect problem gamblers. It makes me so angry really.

I mean where is the common sense?

I had an email today that my Kraken is now ready to fully use as well. So I might just actually start playing at unregulated casinos for a while.

At least then I get all the blocked features back - Autoplay/turbo spins/bonus buys etc, plus then able to play providers that is blocked in the UK and also play slots that was blocked due to the crazy UKGC rules.

Slots that was blocked was all the WMS slots that I used to love - Ruby Slippers, Super Jackpot Party and many many many more from WMS and other providers I used to love to play as well.

I am glad you got your money though. Do not play it back at a new casino bud.

 

[jasonuk]

Hi All,

Good news for me, the money just landed in my bank account.

Fantastic news - glad you got it sorted, and a (thankfully cheap) lesson learned on that one. Especially for the size of the deposits you make, you'll likely hit that paperwork threshold sooner rather than later, so keep an eye out for those notifications!

It also came with a nice email as follows. I wasn’t planning to continue to play with them anyways!

I'm not surprised they've taken that angle - £4500 in 24 hours is a lot in the UKGC worldview (and to be fair, still pretty substantial in general) so they have to make all-or-nothing decisions on accounts such as yours. Given all the other deposits and withdrawals some sites will quickly say no because they don't want the paperwork (particularly if they've already had AML and RG fines previously) of a "potential addict".

If they've closed your account then any remaining balance should be paid automatically - I'd give it a week then chase it up if you want to.

It is just crazy really the UKGC have ruined it for everyone. All because they are trying to protect problem gamblers. It makes me so angry really.

I wouldn't fully blame the UKGC here - £4500 in 24 hours from a new account is going to raise alarm bells, and when they see the player is playing aggressively on other sites they may not want the hassle. The only category they really want there is high net worth addict (the ones they can bleed dry without the UKGC stepping in) because the others either are problematic, or not profitable.

Saying that, losing WMS games because of increasing weird game rules is the UKGC's fault... I wonder why Super Jackpot Party isn't available, surely it's not because the game features a (possibly genuine) pick bonus?

 

[DreamRJ]

Fantastic news - glad you got it sorted, and a (thankfully cheap) lesson learned on that one. Especially for the size of the deposits you make, you'll likely hit that paperwork threshold sooner rather than later, so keep an eye out for those notifications!


I'm not surprised they've taken that angle - £4500 in 24 hours is a lot in the UKGC worldview (and to be fair, still pretty substantial in general) so they have to make all-or-nothing decisions on accounts such as yours. Given all the other deposits and withdrawals some sites will quickly say no because they don't want the paperwork (particularly if they've already had AML and RG fines previously) of a "potential addict".

If they've closed your account then any remaining balance should be paid automatically - I'd give it a week then chase it up if you want to.


I wouldn't fully blame the UKGC here - £4500 in 24 hours from a new account is going to raise alarm bells, and when they see the player is playing aggressively on other sites they may not want the hassle. The only category they really want there is high net worth addict (the ones they can bleed dry without the UKGC stepping in) because the others either are problematic, or not profitable.

Saying that, losing WMS games because of increasing weird game rules is the UKGC's fault... I wonder why Super Jackpot Party isn't available, surely it's not because the game features a (possibly genuine) pick bonus?

Yeah but my point was in the old days we never really had to worry about a casino taking such action like we do nowadays.

I miss the old wild west days but obviously it is nice feeling much safer and protected even though that means we have to miss out on all the fun features we used to have.

As for WMS yes I was thinking it could be the pick features as well but saying that there is still many slots with pick features,, Prag has a lot of them and so do other providers and the pick features in those seem even more rigged than WMS pick features did lol.

At the end of the day all pick features are just a visual element the outcome has already been decided anyway so it does not matter which you pick etc the RNG already decided what amount the total X win will be when you pressed the spin button, all the rest on top is just visual that plays out the result as you pick to total up the total that matches the X win the RNG generated.

 

[jasonuk]

I can understand some of the AML regulations - when people are carrying literal binbags of money into banks something is very wrong. Obviously the UKGC has to enforce those rules in a space that is prone to crime and high amounts of cash turnover, which I don't envy.

I think it's possible to get a better balance between the two - things like the autoplay ban were way out of line, and to this day I've still not seen a good justification for it. The AML rules would be much better if there was clarification - so credit check for £125/mth, paperwork for £500/mth or £1000/mth, and then only identity check (which is now mandatory on registration anyway) for withdrawal unless there is an articulated risk of fraud or other issue.


I don't actually agree with the last point about pre-determination - I've seen bonuses in the past that I strongly believe are genuine pick, the RNG sets the board and the player determines the result (and we do see that with live games such as Cash Hunt on Crazy Time). There's obviously a level of risk here because if the game gets the RNG wrong or does something dumb (like reset after a disconnection) then the player has a very exploitable advantage over the game.

I would be somewhat annoyed if the UKGC had banned genuine pick bonuses yet allowed the obviously bent ones - you know the type where you have a 4x3 grid, get two of everything then win the smallest prize 95% of the time.

 

[johnnymcc1966]

The current legislation has absolutely sod all to do with 'for the good of the punter' and is more to do with pressure from lobbyists from land based casinos or religious nutjobs who donate millions,or more,to the current governments election campaigns. It's also probably got a bit to do with missing out on possible funds from high deposit players in tax revenue to donate to their poor starving billionaire friends. Obviously not just the UK here as I'm pretty sure it's the same the world over with the nutters we have in power nowadays across the globe.