Resolved Need advice on iNetBet - don't want to lose 6k from one spin :(

[zreb]

So its not a rule then and as its not written in any rule, then its not against the casinos T&C's?
If theres nothing saying he should stop playing and support didn't tell him to, then it can't be held against him.

The rule isn't that he should have stopped playing, the rule was to never play the restricted game in the first place.

Why people are saying "should have stopped to contact support" would be to make sure there are no problems from violating that rule. It's not a rule to contact support when you screw up, it's just a step that should be taken to protect yourself - it would be better to lose your $20 or whatever in winnings and start over than to play as normal and give the casino a freeroll against yourself.

Example: deposit $100 + $100 bonus. Win $20 on restricted game. Now if you keep playing, you may have a HIGH chance of losing all that money during normal gambling and wagering (-$100 in real dollars). But if you "won" $600 or $6k or whatever else gambling, you could never have actually won that money because you broke the terms. If you lose, it's gone. If you win, you get reset back to $100.

That's why you need to get it straightened out. If you don't, you may be making a gamble where it's literally impossible for you to win (winnings confiscated due to broken rule), but if you lost it all you would never see it. That's called a "freeroll" in the casinos favor. Absolutely want to avoid that (it's the same as if you were playing at a rogue casino that doesn't pay out - if you can't win, can only lose, why would you play?)

Not trying to defend the confiscation here, just trying to clarify for people what "you should have spoken to the casino before playing" means, and why you should do that. It would have been better for OP to get a reset immediately so that if he had won, it would have been real money. It's not about the way the world should be, it's about taking steps to protect yourself when needed. Because you've given the casino a technical justification to confiscate your money (broken rule), it's now your responsibility to investigate the potential damage. The casino shouldn't confiscate the money for mistakes, but the point is - they can. So protect yourself.

And yes, that means if the casino is non-responsive, you quit playing until they respond, even if that means you have to wait another day to actually play. Either that or risk what happened to OP, however unreasonable it may be.

Just to make sure I'm not misunderstood, I do think the confiscation of OP's funds is ridiculous here, but the casino probably does have the technical right to do so. (And even if they didn't, as a U.S. facing site, there isn't much you can do about the decision they make.)

To zreb and all other RTG lovers - Casino Extreme has had some very positive feedback at CM and payments are super-fast (just ask live chat to process them for you).

Extreme deserves credit for their quick payouts but the video poker payout tables are so bad and from some of my own results I'm worried that the slot payout settings might also be pretty bad.

 

[Mouche12]

Oh, that's too bad as I wanted to give Extreme another try after 6+ years.

 

[mfrasher]

The rule isn't that he should have stopped playing, the rule was to never play the restricted game in the first place.

...it's just a step that should be taken to protect yourself - it would be better to lose your $20 or whatever in winnings and start over than to play as normal and give the casino a freeroll against yourself.

...And yes, that means if the casino is non-responsive, you quit playing until they respond, even if that means you have to wait another day to actually play. Either that or risk what happened to OP, however unreasonable it may be.

Just to make sure I'm not misunderstood, I do think the confiscation of OP's funds is ridiculous here, but the casino probably does have the technical right to do so. (And even if they didn't, as a U.S. facing site, there isn't much you can do about the decision they make.)

Zreb,

You make some great points - some of which I have considered myself. However, being the OP here, it might help if I elaborate on my decision to keep playing. I think (key word = think) many players would have come to the same conclusion as me. So, understanding my frame of mind/decision making might make this more clear.

- I was looking for a new casino to play at. I came on this site and browsed casino reviews for ones that allowed US players. From what I read, iNetBet had a good review and met my needs. I clicked through and opened an account.
- Created an account, took the bonus, deposited, and went into the lobby.
- Saw Banana Jones in the "latest games" section. Decided to give it a try. Thought it was a slot.
- Once in the game, I clicked on a $2 bet and hit spin - only then realizing it wasn't a slot. One bet.
- Now knowing it wasn't a slot, I quickly reviewed the bonus T&C's and saw that I might have a problem. Tried contacting support.
- No response.

At this point, I thought to myself this is an accredited and recommended casino. I tried to contact them, I tried to explain what happened, but got no answer. Then thought, I probably won't win anyways and if I do, I'm playing an accredited casino and they will see I tried to rectify before continuing and I wasn't trying to take advantage of them.

So the questions here aren't whether I violated the T&C's or if I should of waited for a response.

The questions here are did I try to take advantage of the bonus, was the decision to strictly enforce the rule applied fairly and equitably, and should others trust this casino?

The answers are, in my opinion, clearly no.

 

[Jasminebed]

I do think the game itself and placement is unusual, and it was brand new at the point the OP played. I was not previously aware it was his first spin, and a winning one.

In the past, I once broke the max bet rule accidentally at Inetbet. I won zero from the spin. I emailed support (prior to live chat, which btw is often not available). I waited for a response, which was to cancel my balance, and reinstate my deposit plus bonus. Fair enough, other places have let me carry on if I broke a rule and did not win anything.

I think had this happened to the OP he would not have been distressed.

But this was not the usual for playing a disallowed game. This not only was a brand new game, it a brand new category of game, in fact at the time OP played, the ONLY game in this category.

I do think that given those particular circumstances some allowance should be made.

If the player’s balance ever dropped below $16, then the player did win when he would not have without the illicit spin. Inetbet would be justified in denying winnings. Otherwise, I do think they should pay in this unusual case.

 

[zreb]

Oh, that's too bad as I wanted to give Extreme another try after 6+ years.

They may very well have perfectly fine slot payouts, I can't say for sure. That's the trouble with RTG, you never really know. It's just the video poker payouts that concern me. So the question I ask is - would a casino that's not willing to give the standard video poker payout tables be willing to give generous slot payouts? I don't know. Some are as bad as 95% for a game thats "standard" payout table is 99.5%.

I don't necessarily want to convince people not to play there based on a premise that I don't know whether or not it's true, but I do think it's good that people have as much information as possible to base their decisions on. And they definitely do give players quick payouts in a market that pretty much nobody else does, which is to be commended.

It's just unfortunate that when you're playing at an RTG casino you don't have the most basic information you need to make an informed gambling decision, the expected payout % of the games.

The questions here are did I try to take advantage of the bonus, was the decision to strictly enforce the rule applied fairly and equitably, and should others trust this casino?

I understand where you're coming from here. Is the casino just rigidly enforcing their rules or is it an excuse to keep money? I don't know which it is.

But one more thing to keep in mind - casinos aren't always perfectly knowledgeable. You may not be dealing with someone who understands the differences between an advantage player and a normal player, someone just checking into their job who sees the checklist of "broken term" and voids your withdrawal. Some people are just stubborn, or not particularly bright, or don't want to admit a mistake, etc., so you never really know what you're going to get. Just in talking to frontline customer service at different casinos, I've sometimes run into people who are awesome, and sometimes it feels like I'm talking to a brick wall that just keeps repeating the same irrelevant responses to what I'm trying to find out.

Given the attention a PAB brings to the process you would think would be an opportunity to fix those mistakes though and evaluate the situation properly, but since they still don't want to pay you... maybe they do just want to keep the money.

 

[Glassheart]

Really hope the player gets paid. As someone posted it's never too late to do the right thing!

 

[Casinomeister]

Didn't I mention that we were in discussion with the casino on this? Good going - going apeshit in a public forum.

 

[theapple]

It's 2018 and casino operators should be able to block the games/stakes they don't want us to play while on a bonus.

That's all I have to say.

They are, they just choose not to because it allows them to pull stunts like this one. Im yet to see evidence of casino being unable to restrict excluded games during your bonus play, but hey maybe some casinos dont have IT department so they dont know how to do it, so its all good. i guess.

 

[Supababe]

Didn't I mention that we were in discussion with the casino on this? Good going - going apeshit in a public forum.

You know we all totally respect what you do here Bryan. Are you referring to the OP in your last post?

I’m sure my humble opinion doesn’t count but personally I feel he has responded to some ‘sharp’ comments with dignity and grace.

In that situation, given some of the things said by ‘senior members’, my comments would have been far less polite x credit should be given for his restraint when posting surely x

 

[mfrasher]

You know we all totally respect what you do here Bryan.

Totally agree. I view this site as a shiny, little bastion of hope for gamblers who have been slighted by casinos. To offer the services this site provides free of charge is truly admirable and I completely respect all of you that work here.

I've tried to be as polite and thankful as possible, I hope it hasn't come across differently. How I feel about the casino in question is a different story though

I respected the PAB process, and only when done did I come back here to name the casino (which several members requested I do btw).

@Supababe, thank you for the kind words and advice.

 

[ladyhawke]

Didn't I mention that we were in discussion with the casino on this? Good going - going apeshit in a public forum.

As far as I can see, the Op has been reasonably polite and courteous throughout the whole sorry saga, even after he was informed his PAB had been unsuccessful.

As for the rest of us, we began responding to what seems a very unfair decision by INetBet, bearing in mind the way the game in question (Banana Jones) is structured.

When the PAB was ruled against, again many of us still still believed the casino acted unfairly, and we continued expressing our views, which I believe is our right.

Which we have continued expressing even though re-negotiations have begun: re-negotiations which only began when members pointed out some of the discrepancies between what the OP was saying, and the casino's standpoint.

So could you please clarify who is going apeshit?

 

[deaconk78]

Breaking a rule without intention is an accident . Everyone and i mean everyone ! has made a mistake before . The high and mighty attitude from some posters is making them sound like the perfect human beings . You're not !

we are all fallible unfortunately . This one person would have surely chosen a more renowned slot that is great for wagering than some strangely named Banana Jones had they been on the prowl for giving themselves an edge .

They chose a game that was and still is a mystery to me - even after seeing screenshots . They contacted support with zero response which is not unheard of .

Now let's consider that this was a first deposit and not with funds already laying in the account - so the OP wants to play and i am going to say it is unreasonable for the OP to have to make a 2nd deposit elsewhere to get their fix as it goes totally against responsible gambling/gaming . So they play on - which most people would but in the front of your mind will be those nagging doubts so you likely try again a few times to get a reply .

Apparently you're trapped in the game one you have selected your bet . surely entering task manager and killing the process is not even worth the effort as you have committed the funds to the game and the funds aren't going to reappear in your balance but rather will just be sat waiting for you to reopen banana jones so you can play them through ? task manager is not a magical tool.

let us also note that if the OP did have a conversation with live chat and they asked him to stop and wait - why did it take until documents had been verified and the withdrawal processing time to elapse before telling the OP the winnings were void ?

surely once they had the information regarding the Banana Jones incident they could have notified the OP at any point that their winnings and balance would be voided and deposit would be refunded. How long does it take to fast track the situation to the relevant person ?

My feeling is that they hoped the OP would zero their balance and get to keep the deposit without having to do anything . The live chat service in every industry is for the instant customer satisfaction and it's vital in the gambling industry because a lack of communication can lose you a lot of players in a flash .

I don't understand what they would have done differently had the OP waited . Sometimes the moment well actually almost always the moment you win is meant to be so the OP wins but if waits then doesn't win . seems totally unfair .

what i would like to see is the jack pot that the OP won placed back into the real play world . don't wanna pay because the spins are void then so is the JP that they profited from . who is scamming who ?

 

[nutnut]

As far as I can see, the Op has been reasonably polite and courteous throughout the whole sorry saga, even after he was informed his PAB had been unsuccessful.

As for the rest of us, we began responding to what seems a very unfair decision by INetBet, bearing in mind the way the game in question (Banana Jones) is structured.

When the PAB was ruled against, again many of us still still believed the casino acted unfairly, and we continued expressing our views, which I believe is our right.

Which we have continued expressing even though re-negotiations have begun: re-negotiations which only began when members pointed out some of the discrepancies between what the OP was saying, and the casino's standpoint.

So could you please clarify who is going apeshit?

Exactly.

Without the forum posting about it; this would have dropped away. Turns out the crucial point was the live chat transcript and when asked it was NEVER supplied to the PAB yet their word(the casinos) was took on it and sided with the casino.

This thread proves why players should gather together because solely relying on the casino or even the PAB doesn't always 100% get all the proper evidence together to fairly judge it.

So only people going apeshit are likely the casino.

 

[Savatage79]

I just wanted to clarify that multiple times the reps would say to me why don't you go out and say hello more often to which I had to continually explain myself and why I don't care about chat, that became bothersome.

As for the slots themselves i havent spent a ton but they didn't really feel good to me, but that's how it goes as some do great there and some don't, while some do great with rtg and some don't... Rtg has actually been good to me for the most part and the games seem a bit more polished and refined.

 

[deaconk78]

I just wanted to clarify that multiple times the reps would say to me why don't you go out and say hello more often to which I had to continually explain myself and why I don't care about chat, that became bothersome.

As for the slots themselves i havent spent a ton but they didn't really feel good to me, but that's how it goes as some do great there and some don't, while some do great with rtg and some don't... Rtg has actually been good to me for the most part and the games seem a bit more polished and refined.

i work as a CSA but i hate and i mean hate the intrusive chat pop up boxes . if i am searching a website for deals i don't require some intrusive geezer/gal/galeezer/geezal asking me all kinds of questions . go into the bookies and you're left to your own devices within reasons . i wouldn't walk upto you and stick offers in your face . there are adverts with offers on the wall . want them ? wanna ask about them ? you'll come ask . I ll offer you free roll on fobts if you're stood around waiting for a race be it dogs or horses . here have 20 quid - you can't win but it ll pass the time/. I've even gone out and spent my own money and put food on - pasties and chocs at xmas so customers can eat something and they feel welcome .

for me that's great CS.

A lot of chat is now non helpful and we'll have to pass it on. I can pick up a phone and contact my Area manager within seconds and get stuff sorted . I would phone and get 1/150 odds etc for football coupons so people can do multiples .

a lack of instant communication online ? inexcusable . the UK for example is floating with unemployed . advertise the jobs and people will apply be they in the USA Oceania or Europe etc . the site must be bad if they have a lack of accessibility .

 

[Savatage79]

Yea I just found the pressure to chat at times totally annoying, if I wanted to chat I would but I don't need someone constantly reminding me.

As for the inetbet issue, the reasonable action imho would be for inetbet to perhaps subtract a little cash. Ultimately I agree its a mistake, but from their stand point it's their rules.. However if I was in your shoes I would ask them to simply take out some of the winnings.. Maybe pay 5500, or 5000...instead of the full amount.

Not that it should come to that but it'd be better than getting nothing.

 

[mfrasher]

This one person would have surely chosen a more renowned slot that is great for wagering than some strangely named Banana Jones had they been on the prowl for giving themselves an edge .

..and I probably would of spun more than once, and not contacted their support. It really is common sense.

let us also note that if the OP did have a conversation with live chat and they asked him to stop and wait - why did it take until documents had been verified and the withdrawal processing time to elapse before telling the OP the winnings were void ?

surely once they had the information regarding the Banana Jones incident they could have notified the OP at any point that their winnings and balance would be voided and deposit would be refunded. How long does it take to fast track the situation to the relevant person ?

Good point.

what i would like to see is the jack pot that the OP won placed back into the real play world . don't wanna pay because the spins are void then so is the JP that they profited from . who is scamming who ?

Now MY spidey senses are tingling... telling me this is not likely.

 

[maxd]

... the crucial point was the live chat transcript and when asked it was NEVER supplied to the PAB yet their word(the casinos) was took on it and sided with the casino.

When we have a good and open relationship with a casino it is not always necessary to demand proof. Indeed if we did so every time they'd soon tire of dealing with us and the whole PAB process would suffer as a consequence. So yes, where justified and warranted we take their word for what they say. "justified and warranted" can be defined as follows:

1. there is a well established history with the casino (10+ years in this case).
2. they've proven themselves trustworthy when discussing cases (typically true of most Accred casinos but certainly true of the casino in question).
3. there is no obvious need to ask for supporting evidence at the time (obviously a judgement call).

So I didn't ask for the chat transcript at the time because the situation described to me by a trusted rep seemed simple and straightforward: "justified and warranted" on all three counts IMO on the day.
And yes given the situation described to me by the rep I did support the casino's decision.

Since things have gone sideways on this we have and are backtracking to get the evidence, fill in details that are now necessary, etc. Standard Operating Procedure in a situation like this and none of the above should be a surprise to anyone who knows us, knows what we do and is familiar with how we do it, etc.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just for the record, is everyone agreed that the player did a single spin on a prohibited game for the entire duration of time that the bonus was in play? (And a game that offered no advantage over a regular slot, at that.)

 

[nutnut]

When we have a good and open relationship with a casino it is not always necessary to demand proof. Indeed if we did so every time they'd soon tire of dealing with us and the whole PAB process would suffer as a consequence. So yes, where justified and warranted we take their word for what they say. "justified and warranted" can be defined as follows:

1. there is a well established history with the casino (10+ years in this case).
2. they've proven themselves trustworthy when discussing cases (typically true of most Accred casinos but certainly true of the casino in question).
3. there is no obvious need to ask for supporting evidence at the time (obviously a judgement call).

So I didn't ask for the chat transcript at the time because the situation described to me by a trusted rep seemed simple and straightforward: "justified and warranted" on all three counts IMO on the day.
And yes given the situation described to me by the rep I did support the casino's decision.

Since things have gone sideways on this we have and are backtracking to get the evidence, fill in details that are now necessary, etc. Standard Operating Procedure in a situation like this and none of the above should be a surprise to anyone who knows us, knows what we do and is familiar with how we do it, etc.

Thanks for the reply.

Then that leaves only two options

1) Player says it never existed
2) Casino says it does

So one of them is telling porkies. given the posters frequent posting he would have some front to continue to deny it and casinos lack of posting. That said why would a casino rep lie to you, that is even bigger issue for them and you if that has happened. So be interesting to see who is right or wrong.

That said even if player did go on live chat we all agree(Players) the void is still harsh.

 

[stokes]

I think casinos should have a very simple way to decide whether the player wanted to abuse their bonuses: Did the player achieve any significant advantage playing a not allowed game? The significant advantage could be a major win or decreasing the wagering requirement by playing high RTP games.

I mean who in their right mind would consider 1 spin/round in a not allowed game to be an attempt for a bonus abuse?

If I were their player I would wonder what they would do to me if I won big to avoid paying me?

 

[electronictonic]

Breaking a rule without intention is an accident . Everyone and i mean everyone ! has made a mistake before . The high and mighty attitude from some posters is making them sound like the perfect human beings . You're not !

we are all fallible unfortunately . This one person would have surely chosen a more renowned slot that is great for wagering than some strangely named Banana Jones had they been on the prowl for giving themselves an edge .

They chose a game that was and still is a mystery to me - even after seeing screenshots . They contacted support with zero response which is not unheard of .

Now let's consider that this was a first deposit and not with funds already laying in the account - so the OP wants to play and i am going to say it is unreasonable for the OP to have to make a 2nd deposit elsewhere to get their fix as it goes totally against responsible gambling/gaming . So they play on - which most people would but in the front of your mind will be those nagging doubts so you likely try again a few times to get a reply .

Apparently you're trapped in the game one you have selected your bet . surely entering task manager and killing the process is not even worth the effort as you have committed the funds to the game and the funds aren't going to reappear in your balance but rather will just be sat waiting for you to reopen banana jones so you can play them through ? task manager is not a magical tool.

let us also note that if the OP did have a conversation with live chat and they asked him to stop and wait - why did it take until documents had been verified and the withdrawal processing time to elapse before telling the OP the winnings were void ?

surely once they had the information regarding the Banana Jones incident they could have notified the OP at any point that their winnings and balance would be voided and deposit would be refunded. How long does it take to fast track the situation to the relevant person ?

My feeling is that they hoped the OP would zero their balance and get to keep the deposit without having to do anything . The live chat service in every industry is for the instant customer satisfaction and it's vital in the gambling industry because a lack of communication can lose you a lot of players in a flash .

I don't understand what they would have done differently had the OP waited . Sometimes the moment well actually almost always the moment you win is meant to be so the OP wins but if waits then doesn't win . seems totally unfair .

what i would like to see is the jack pot that the OP won placed back into the real play world . don't wanna pay because the spins are void then so is the JP that they profited from . who is scamming who ?

My point about task manager and using end task is as long as you can use the task manager then it's not the case that you cannot exit something, as I noted with the game that is causing all this trouble, I checked it out and I noted that when you choose your bet size example clicking $5 then you are taken to the board where you click the dice, the $5 is not actually deducted from the balance at the bottom until you press the roll dice button, so after choosing betsize then making it to the game board the player still had not breached the terms yet, until he hit spin dice, and the fact he did one spin then was able to leave? I thought he said he couldn't leave till he played..he managed to leave after one spin though? me personally having played slots since 2003 if that was me I know for a fact if I had clicked bet £5 and was taken to a board game that looked nothing like a slot, I would have closed it down before pressing any buttons at all, as I always err on the side of caution when using a bonus.

 

[Borgie]

My point about task manager and using end task is as long as you can use the task manager then it's not the case that you cannot exit something, as I noted with the game that is causing all this trouble, I checked it out and I noted that when you choose your bet size example clicking $5 then you are taken to the board where you click the dice, the $5 is not actually deducted from the balance at the bottom until you press the roll dice button, so after choosing betsize then making it to the game board the player still had not breached the terms yet, until he hit spin dice, and the fact he did one spin then was able to leave? I thought he said he couldn't leave till he played..he managed to leave after one spin though? me personally having played slots since 2003 if that was me I know for a fact if I had clicked bet £5 and was taken to a board game that looked nothing like a slot, I would have closed it down before pressing any buttons at all, as I always err on the side of caution when using a bonus.

Good for you . I wish I was so perfect . Maybe go work for inetbet. Help them to make sure nobody gets paid for anything.
Sorry but really....

 

[brianmon]

My point about task manager and using end task is as long as you can use the task manager then it's not the case that you cannot exit something, as I noted with the game that is causing all this trouble, I checked it out and I noted that when you choose your bet size example clicking $5 then you are taken to the board where you click the dice, the $5 is not actually deducted from the balance at the bottom until you press the roll dice button, so after choosing betsize then making it to the game board the player still had not breached the terms yet, until he hit spin dice, and the fact he did one spin then was able to leave? I thought he said he couldn't leave till he played..he managed to leave after one spin though? me personally having played slots since 2003 if that was me I know for a fact if I had clicked bet £5 and was taken to a board game that looked nothing like a slot, I would have closed it down before pressing any buttons at all, as I always err on the side of caution when using a bonus.

Have you tried that with Real money though?
An unfinished game wouldn't be logged on the servers, in demo mode. There would be no reason to log anything.

It's the same as quitting a game during a feature. Do it with real money and the game will resume where it left off, when you reload it.
Do it in demo mode and the feature will have disappeared

 

[Savatage79]

Yea I remember when I played banana Jones after you select the wager it locks you in, and if you try to enter other games it'll just say you have a live game and takes you back In til you spin.

I specifically remember it because I remember wanting to back out of it once for some reason, and it took me right back in until I initiated.. I'm pretty sure, it's been awhile but I'm fairly sure.

Speaking of banana Jones id shove that game right up someone's ass if I could