Major Absolute Poker Issue

[happygobrokey]

It looks like BW has delisted AP and UB. I'm trying to find out for sure.

absolute, you're on the D-list, hear that?

 

[SlotsWizard]

What's BW and UB? AP is Absolute poker right?

BW = Bonus Whores
UB = UltimateBet, AP (Absolute Poker)'s sister site

 

[ThodorisK]

I have also posted this at 2+2 at my thread:

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I disagree that it is independent hackers (not working for the casinos) who see the hole cards of others. Because most of my losses happened because they were getting very lucky when I had a strong hand. And not so much because they were folding when I had a strong hand.

Besides, if it was the case of independent hackers, the casinos would make the best of their efforts to watch all games and freeze quickly the accounts of all suspects i.e. strange winners. It would be of their interest to do so. Therefore it would rarely happen to be cheated by hackers. All players are hackers? Very rare bad luck keeps happening all the time, against all opponents. Strong hands keep costing you money, whereas the opposite should happen in the long run (as when played by an average player, they have an expected value much higher that the max 5% of the rake). This could only happen if the casino FORCES a BALANCE of the amounts that players win and lose between them, so that in the long run all the money goes to the rake. Because it is the conservative players who play only strong hands, that have an edge over the rest of the players. Because if this was not the case, and instead all players were betting and folding with the same preflop and flop hands, then this BALANCE would happen anyway (no matter how great poker player you are, if the other players are folding the same preflop and flop cards you fold too, you cannot have an edge over them greater than the 5% rake), therefore in the long run all the money of all players would anyway go to the rake, therefore the casinos would have no reason to cheat, and we would not observe the phenomenon that strong hands get very rare bad luck all the time.

Perhaps sometimes they use the more quick method of a player whos money is the casinos, who keeps winning. This player could be either an employee or a computer bot. But the method of the enforced BALANCE is more difficult to be statistically identified as cheating.

 

[pokeraddict]

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Scroll about halfway down to N 82 50 24's post # #12520697. This almost certainly proves either AP or an AP employee was involved.

 

[jinnia]

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Scroll about halfway down to N 82 50 24's post # #12520697. This almost certainly proves either AP or an AP employee was involved.

The domain name that poster mentions, rivieraltd.com , the information on it shows this..

Domain Name Whois: just as he posted....
Registrant:
Domain Discreet
ATTN: rivieraltd.com
P.O. Box 278
Yarmouth, NS B5A 4B2
CA
Email: [email protected]


Now look at the IP Location Details::

Mohawk Internet Technologies MIT-BLK-01 (NET-66-212-224-0-1)
66.212.224.0 - 66.212.255.255
Absolute Entertainment S.A. MIT-ABPOK-02 (NET-66-212-244-128-1)
66.212.244.128 - 66.212.244.255

Still doubt in anyones mind who's behind this?

 

[lojo]

It looks like BW has delisted AP and UB. I'm trying to find out for sure.

And?

I'm down with lotso here, just because... show me, condemn absolutely. It's fine to rogue for the reasons rogued. But don't besmirch. CONDEMN if and affect the change.

 

[pokeraddict]

And?

I'm down with lotso here, just because... show me, condemn absolutely. It's fine to rogue for the reasons rogued. But don't besmirch. CONDEMN if and affect the change.

I don't understand your post at all. You don't feel that news on this topic should be reported?

Anyway BW has officially blacklisted AP now and it has also come out after analyzing Greycat's hands in that MTT he was blinded out. Someone paid $1000 and never showed up or what seems more likely to me someone entered the MTT twice in case Potripper got busted on an allin suckout. Greycat is one of the other cheat accounts that has already been exposed.

 

[peteyweestro]

so where is lotso now that it's pretty obviouse that they are involved

 

[lojo]

I don't understand your post at all. You don't feel that news on this topic should be reported?

Anyway BW has officially blacklisted AP now and it has also come out after analyzing Greycat's hands in that MTT he was blinded out. Someone paid $1000 and never showed up or what seems more likely to me someone entered the MTT twice in case Potripper got busted on an allin suckout. Greycat is one of the other cheat accounts that has already been exposed.

Condemn if you must. It was a crime if it occurred. Shut them down if you have it, or hold your peace.

Sorry if I was unclear.

 

[ThodorisK]

Looool, they locked my thread ta 2+2, it wasnt too long, and started it just yesterday. Obviously they dont want new posts in it so it appears in the first page of the threads list.

Hey, pokeraddict, the last link you gave kept opening new windows in my pc. Is that called spam?

Strange things happening.

 

[ThodorisK]

Loool, Absolute Poker had sent me an advertising e-mail. It seems they got anxious. How did they find my e-mail anyway? I have never played in any of their casinos i think.

 

[ThodorisK]

has sent me. Not had sent me.

Sorry for this correction-post, but you have disallowd me to edit my posts.

 

[Adanthar]

Looool, they locked my thread ta 2+2, it wasnt too long, and started it just yesterday. Obviously they dont want new posts in it so it appears in the first page of the threads list.

Hey, pokeraddict, the last link you gave kept opening new windows in my pc. Is that called spam?

Strange things happening.

I locked your thread because it was worthless conspiracy theory drivel taking attention away from the actual problem.

For any more questions, please stop hijacking this thread and PM me.

 

[Pinababy69]

He can't PM you Adanthar, because he has negative reputation, which limits what he's allowed to do here. He can't PM, nor search, etc.

Thodorisk, he is right. And the whole reason you are at the stage you are on this forum is because you started that thread "All Pokerrooms are Rigged" or something similar, and continued on with it even after numerous posters here gave reasons why your theories were flawed.

This is one of the biggest and most important stories concerning online gaming, not just poker. Why don't you drag up your old thread if you want to discuss your theories about online poker in general, or conspiracies? This one should be kept on track, it's hard enough to follow as it is.

 

[ThodorisK]

By calling it conspiracy theory you are implying that the probability that most pokerooms do not cheat, is almost 100%.

Your reply verifies my arguments that you forum owners are anxious to defend the reputation of online casinos and try to cover up dangerous posts and shout the mouth of those who want to expose the truth.

What "it was found" happening at Absolute is what keeps happening in all pokerooms. If it wasnt, I would play poker now instead of writing in the forums. This focusing on absolute alone implies there is no cheating elsewhere.

You will not stop the uncovering of the truth so easily. Ban me from both casinomeister and 2+2. It is a piece of cake for me to appear on greek television and be the No1 famous in Greece. The only thing I have to do is give a photocopy of my book to about 20 journalists, scientists, stc. This book reveals the reason of ageing and how to defeat it. Also, it has solved almost all the questions of physics. And I will not forget to mention the cheating of online casinos and your role in it. I have chosen not to become famous so far, for many reasons, but I think I will decide to do so sooner or later as I feel the duty to reveal my knowledge. You know where I live. I am not scared about my life because I trust God will save me. Why? Because last time my life was in danger, I shouted with all my strength and the 5.9 richter earthquake of 1999 in Athens happened.

The cheating of the casinos has really pissed me of. 5% rake should be enough for them. But no, they had to take every last penny of poor people. Some of them commited suicide. You think I will let you get away with this?
You think you have power hah? So did Hitler had power. Look at how the Law of Justice reversed the situation. God reveled the secret of the atomic bomb to the Americans. Actually, it was again the Law of Justice that gave Hitler and Germany the power they got, in the first place. He was imprisoned and kept taking orders. Germany had suffered a lot of injustice because by the other nations before the war.

The power of a nuclear bomb is a speck compared to the power of a saint. No, I am not a saint yet, but I know the way to become one.

You think I am nuts? Why should I care you think so? I wouldnt be affected even if the whole world says I am nuts. Your wise "principle of majority" crusified Christ.

So far you stubburn people, I have had enough with you. I dont care if I never post again in your forums.

 

[The Dude]

Warning - posting violations

By calling it conspiracy theory you are implying that the probability that most pokerooms do not cheat, is almost 100%.

Your reply verifies my arguments that you forum owners are anxious to defend the reputation of online casinos and try to cover up dangerous posts and shout the mouth of those who want to expose the truth.

What "it was found" happening at Absolute is what keeps happening in all pokerooms. If it wasnt, I would play poker now instead of writing in the forums. This focusing on absolute alone implies there is no cheating elsewhere.

You will not stop the uncovering of the truth so easily. Ban me from both casinomeister and 2+2. It is a piece of cake for me to appear on greek television and be the No1 famous in Greece. The only thing I have to do is give a photocopy of my book to about 20 journalists, scientists, stc. This book reveals the reason of ageing and how to defeat it. Also, it has solved almost all the questions of physics. And I will not forget to mention the cheating of online casinos and your role in it. I have chosen not to become famous so far, for many reasons, but I think I will decide to do so sooner or later as I feel the duty to reveal my knowledge. You know where I live. I am not scared about my life because I trust God will save me. Why? Because last time my life was in danger, I shouted with all my strength and the 5.9 richter earthquake of 1999 in Athens happened.

The cheating of the casinos has really pissed me of. 5% rake should be enough for them. But no, they had to take every last penny of poor people. Some of them commited suicide. You think I will let you get away with this?
You think you have power hah? So did Hitler had power. Look at how the Law of Justice reversed the situation. God reveled the secret of the atomic bomb to the Americans. Actually, it was again the Law of Justice that gave Hitler and Germany the power they got, in the first place. He was imprisoned and kept taking orders. Germany had suffered a lot of injustice because by the other nations before the war.

The power of a nuclear bomb is a speck compared to the power of a saint. No, I am not a saint yet, but I know the way to become one.

You think I am nuts? Why should I care you think so? I wouldnt be affected even if the whole world says I am nuts. Your wise "principle of majority" crusified Christ.

So far you stubburn people, I have had enough with you. I dont care if I never post again in your forums.

Hey dude. Put the bong down for a few minutes and listen carefully:

I have been very tolerant towards you and your failure to follow basic form rules. Number 1 - don't derail threads, and this one of your methods of operation. You have your own thread, and you have a lot of room to deal with your issues. The only people who are "silencing" you here are your fellow members - not the forum "owner" (me). You keep getting negative reps because your fellow members are tired of hearing your shit.

And yes, when you become "less than zero" you lose privileges like PMing, searching, and starting new threads. You can join in posting - that's about it.

I have no reason to ban you form this forum since dissenting opinions are welcome here. But if you if you fail to behave according to the posted rules of this forum, then you will be asked to leave. Last warning.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/

 

[fatshaft]

so where is lotso now that it's pretty obviouse that they are involved

We've got to assume that even he now has his proof?:notworthy

 

[tennis_balls]

i've not followed this thread the whole way so I'm not sure if this has been addressed:

it's just the AP software being questioned here and not the UB platform, correct?

I understand why people would steer clear of UB as a result of this, I just wanted that cleared up for my own sanity (no digs from the peanut gallery please) as I believe UB and Full Tilt use the same platform.

 

[lots0]

so where is lotso now that it's pretty obviouse that they are involved

Sorry but as great as CasinoMeister is, I don't live here.

I am still waiting to see some evidence.

So I guess the person that has the original Email headers refuses to release them to the public... Whats up with that?

But he will give the email headers to his forum buddies... Again, what is up with that?

No one wants to present the source material for all these accusations, why is that?

I just don't understand why releasing ANY of this source information is such a problem.

All I saw was an IP address that resolved to a AP mail server, that someone posted on the forum... Doesn't mean a damn thing.

You know, I can get the IP address for one of the White House email servers... Does that mean I am involved with G.W. Bush... I don't think so...

I just want some proof I can see with my own eyes and not have someone else (that I don't know) tell me about it , what is so difficult about that?

 

[lots0]

We've got to assume...

This is the entire problem... you guys just keep assuming... You see No proof .... You just assume the people telling you AP is cheating are telling the truth.

You assume they have the proof.

You assume AP is cheating... without seeing any of the evidence yourself.

You just keep assuming... That is your choice.

My choice is to see the evidence myself before I condemn.

 

[Zoozie]

My choice is to see the evidence myself before I
condemn.

For a start you could try to open your eyes.

1 out maybe 100.000 poker players would not be convinced by just reading the hand history from the 1000$ turn let alone the
many cash games hands.

Also there is probably also 1 in 100.000 people that believe they have been probed by aliens or they can walk on water etc.

But can the hand history be trusted?Is a big hoax? Are some posters faking evidence? That would be a better path to take instead
of claiming the hand history shows nothing.


Zoozie

 

[pokeraddict]

Here are the email headers from the spreadsheet email given to me:

X-Apparently-To: [email protected] via 69.147.75.80; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:40:59 -0700
X-Originating-IP: [216.94.0.217]
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
Authentication-Results: mta199.mail.re2.yahoo.com from=absolutepoker.com; domainkeys=neutral (no sig)
Received: from 216.94.0.217 (HELO mail.absolutepoker.com) (216.94.0.217) by mta199.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:40:56 -0700
Received: (qmail 77857 invoked by uid 0); 22 Sep 2007 02:40:30 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO ems00805) (212.62.22.88) by 0 with SMTP; 22 Sep 2007 02:40:30 -0000
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:39:57 -0400
From: [email protected] Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Subject: RE:Re: $1k tournament on Wednesday Sep. 12th [#7825264]
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=======++++++++++92rnaa9wknf9wt3===+++++"
Content-Length: 13169114

 

[GaryWatson]

This is the entire problem... you guys just keep assuming... You see No proof .... You just assume the people telling you AP is cheating are telling the truth.

You assume they have the proof.

You assume AP is cheating... without seeing any of the evidence yourself.

You just keep assuming... That is your choice.

My choice is to see the evidence myself before I condemn.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

I was wondering why you were so adament.

Best to quit contesting, it just makes AP look worse (if possible)

It's real money people are dealing with and this should be seen as a serious matter.

There has been a breach in trust. That is conclusive.

 

[lojo]

Why not a voice of dissent and call for absolute proof. Lots0 never denied affiliation, freely admitted it, and gave examples of rogues s/he has kicked to the curb. I imagine when lots0 is satisfied, you will not see a louder voice condemning AP.

 

[GaryWatson]

Why not a voice of dissent and call for absolute proof. Lots0 never denied affiliation, freely admitted it, and gave examples of rogues s/he has kicked to the curb. I imagine when lots0 is satisfied, you will not see a louder voice condemning AP.

AP have accidently forwarded proof (beyond reasonable doubt). What more proof is needed? The stats are clear enough, from several different sources. If AP have a case, it is them to come forward & reverse the guilty verdict.

This has damaged the entire industry & AP have let down anyone who has ever sent a player to the site. Their usual ignorance is "bliss stance" no longer washes

 

[lojo]

Handcuffs

 

[pokeraddict]

Why not a voice of dissent and call for absolute proof. Lots0 never denied affiliation, freely admitted it, and gave examples of rogues s/he has kicked to the curb. I imagine when lots0 is satisfied, you will not see a louder voice condemning AP.

He's been wanting to see the headers and says once headers have been posted that have not been altered he will be convinced. The user just asked I delete his email which should be no big deal.

Keep in mind we are in day 4 of the breaking story and AP still has not said anything even while BW, Pocket 5's, NWP and certainly more large affiliates have blacklisted and delisted them and while the forums assume the emails are true. Wouldn't you think if this was all BS AP would have denied the legitimacy of the master hh by now?

There is so much other stuff about to go public. It will make your head spin.

 

[pokeraddict]

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Scroll down to Adanthar's post. Amazing stuff. No wonder AP has been so quiet and their short denial. BTW Scott Tom was the one spamming 2+2 as Pokermachine. Pokermachine shared the ip with The Watchdog at 2+2. It has really blown up.

 

[ThodorisK]

How many times do I have to repeat this? Statistical evidence for cheating is nothing else than bad luck itself. A bad luck which had 1% to happen is a statistical evidence for cheating (of a strong degree). But even a bad luck which had 49% to happen is also a statistical evidence for cheating (of an ignorable degree).They are both statistical evidences for cheating, because the only difference between them is the degree. You might call the 1% one as evidence, the 49% one as ignorable, and a 10% one as indication and not evidence. But they are all indications of a degree.

Now, when one plays many thousands of hands, a run of an extreme bad luck is highly probable to happen. So one must consider the whole hand history of a player in a particular casino since he started playing there.

But in the case of Absolute, if I am right, some very rare bad lucks happened to more than one players, right? And they all lost by particular other "superlucky" "players". But also in this case one must take in account the whole hand history of both the winning and the losing players since they started playing there. So it is getting extremelly complicated.

But the bottom line is that we roughly know that what happened had a very small probability to happen. Now what kind of more evidence are people asking? Are they saying that what happened was just coincedental and the result of very rare but REAL bad luck? Or are they just confused of what statistical evidence is?

I have not condidered all other things such as "chip dumping" etc that happened in the case of Absolute. I guess these facts raise even higher the probability of chating than the stats by themselves.

 

[The Watchdog]

Why the hell am I been linked to that guy??

Really weird... at 2+2 they claimed we were the same person.

I have never used another alias at Casinomeister, eog, therx, 2+2 or pocketfives...

Anyways, I really think its quite bad what is happening with Absolute... on the other hand I really dislike tons of forum posters pretending to know about Poker security and everyone goes around analyzing hands and figures they don't even get.

Something funny is going on with these guys, don't know what though... It could be a group of professional scammers, and inside job, world war III, what ever... ONE THING IS FOR SURE... the idea of a super account is just the most paranoid and stupid idea I have ever herd.

Any ways, lets hope the people that were affected by this issue get some compensation...

 

[Adanthar]

Why the hell am I been linked to that guy??

Really weird... at 2+2 they claimed we were the same person.

I have never used another alias at Casinomeister, eog, therx, 2+2 or pocketfives...

Anyways, I really think its quite bad what is happening with Absolute... on the other hand I really dislike tons of forum posters pretending to know about Poker security and everyone goes around analyzing hands and figures they don't even get.

Something funny is going on with these guys, don't know what though... It could be a group of professional scammers, and inside job, world war III, what ever... ONE THING IS FOR SURE... the idea of a super account is just the most paranoid and stupid idea I have ever herd.

Any ways, lets hope the people that were affected by this issue get some compensation...

Hi, The Watchdog,

Last we met you on 2+2, you were posting

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, started by this OP:

POTSLAMMER
stranger


Reged: 08/21/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Costa Rica

You'd better fucking hope they get compensated, Scott.

 

[patient77]

This is the entire problem... you guys just keep assuming... You see No proof .... You just assume the people telling you AP is cheating are telling the truth.

You assume they have the proof.

You assume AP is cheating... without seeing any of the evidence yourself.

You just keep assuming... That is your choice.

My choice is to see the evidence myself before I condemn.

did you watch the tournament that was posted here where it was obvious the winner had access to everyones hole cards? since you still aren't convinced,
is it your belief that there is a conspiracy and that the hand histories were all fake and made up by people with nothing better to do?


i have no idea why i responded to this guy, but im just curious as to what his beliefs are. EVERYONE with pokertracker and tournament results is in on this conspiracy to prove this online site is rigged, and lotso isn't going to be fooled!!!!

 

[lots0]

I imagine when lots0 is satisfied, you will not see a louder voice condemning AP.

Thank You.

He's been wanting to see the headers and says once headers have been posted that have not been altered he will be convinced.

That is not quite what I said. What I wanted to see was the entire (complete) unedited email including the email headers. I still have not seen that.

I have requested from AP a copy of the hand history from the tournament that pokeraddict gave in this thread. I guess we will see what happens.

If they provide me a copy of the hand history, I would like to compare it to the hand history that is being talked about but not published in it's unedited form.

If it is alright with CM, I'll post the entire hand history from AP here after I receive it.

If AP does not supply me with the hand history, I guess I'll have no choice but to consider them a Rouge, as they have always supplied me with hand histories whenever I have requested one. I'll give AP until this Friday.

Over the past years, I have received several hand histories from AP and I know it should only take them 24 hours or less to provide the hand history.

Of course we really will need to see the unedited version of this email as well. So if CM is willing how about posting it here as well? So we can all compare them?

@Pokeraddict
So far how many people have said they have played in the tournament and agree with the edited hands that have been posted in the forums?

@Gary Watson
So did you really think you were exposing me??? If I were allowed to call people names here in CM's forum, I would call you an asshole, but as we are not supposed to call people names here at Casinomeister... I won't

 

[Adanthar]

You know what, I'm not done with you yet, Scott.

Pokermachine:

Login Name: scotttom
Display Name:
Member Title:
Name Color:
Real Email Address: [edited]
Display Email Address:
Full Name:
Registration / First IP: 02/26/04 08:54 PM - 196.40.37.120
Last Post / IP: 06/22/07 06:32 PM - 196.40.67.178
Member Rating: Not Rated

The Watchdog:

Login Name: the watchdog
Display Name:
Member Title:
Name Color:
Real Email Address: [edited]
Display Email Address:
Full Name:
Registration / First IP: 08/14/07 01:51 PM - 196.40.67.178
Last Post / IP: 10/10/07 01:22 PM - 196.40.67.178

If you're not Scott, it might be best to find a new network to post from.

 

[Pinababy69]

Adanthar, could you clarify for anyone here who hasn't read the 2+2 thread who Scott Tom is?

 

[Adanthar]

Adanthar, could you clarify for anyone here who hasn't read the 2+2 thread who Scott Tom is?

1)The President of AP Entertainment
2)Superuser #363
3)Potripper

Take your pick, they're all good.

 

[lots0]

So Adanthar,

do you have a copy of this email hand history from AP that everyone is so up in arms about?

If so why don't you post it, without editing it?


And it is no secret that Watchdog is out of Costa Rica...
I think there are at least a dozen or so other people that live in Costa Rica that may have computers hooked up to the internet.

 

[Adanthar]

So Adanthar,

do you have a copy of this email hand history from AP that everyone is so up in arms about?

If so why don't you post it, without editing it?

#1)It's 9.5 megs of extremely hard to read, dense data with no line breaks that also intersperses different tables with each other if you sort by timestamp
#2)It has the IP's and email addresses (half of the login info) for every player and observer who opened/closed a table during the 2.5 hours the info is from
#3)It has data on 14 tables, 13 of which are totally irrelevant to the topic

If you can get enough people to vouch for your ability not to leak the thing so every hacker on the planet can target everyone named inside, you too can have a copy.

 

[lots0]

If you can get enough people to vouch for your ability not to leak the thing so every hacker on the planet can target everyone named inside, you too can have a copy

Let me get this straight, I have to be in your "club" or vouched for by someone in your "club" to be able to see the unedited evidence... That sounds rather odd to me.

It has the IP's and email addresses (half of the login info) for every player and observer who opened/closed a table during the 2.5 hours the info is from

FYI - The IP numbers would not mean anything, they would be from the ISP's (most all would be dynamic IP's ) and not the IP's of personal computers involved.

So all you are protecting are some email address that people use for the poker rooms...

I guess making sure a few folks don't get some more spam emails is way more important than providing this all important and damning evidence to the public.

It's 9.5 megs of extremely hard to read, dense data with no line breaks that also intersperses different tables with each other if you sort by timestamp

so it is a small csv file? That should be very easy to parse out.

It has data on 14 tables, 13 of which are totally irrelevant to the topic

So we ignore that data... No big deal.

If space is such an issue I'll host it for free.

Lets see this email posted unedited in public.

 

[GaryWatson]

Dont worry WATCHDOG, you have been implicated too.

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[Keyser]

Thank you for revealing yourself

By calling it conspiracy theory you are implying that the probability that most pokerooms do not cheat, is almost 100%.

Your reply verifies my arguments that you forum owners are anxious to defend the reputation of online casinos and try to cover up dangerous posts and shout the mouth of those who want to expose the truth.

What "it was found" happening at Absolute is what keeps happening in all pokerooms. If it wasnt, I would play poker now instead of writing in the forums. This focusing on absolute alone implies there is no cheating elsewhere.

You will not stop the uncovering of the truth so easily. Ban me from both casinomeister and 2+2. It is a piece of cake for me to appear on greek television and be the No1 famous in Greece. The only thing I have to do is give a photocopy of my book to about 20 journalists, scientists, stc. This book reveals the reason of ageing and how to defeat it. Also, it has solved almost all the questions of physics. And I will not forget to mention the cheating of online casinos and your role in it. I have chosen not to become famous so far, for many reasons, but I think I will decide to do so sooner or later as I feel the duty to reveal my knowledge. You know where I live. I am not scared about my life because I trust God will save me. Why? Because last time my life was in danger, I shouted with all my strength and the 5.9 richter earthquake of 1999 in Athens happened.

The cheating of the casinos has really pissed me of. 5% rake should be enough for them. But no, they had to take every last penny of poor people. Some of them commited suicide. You think I will let you get away with this?
You think you have power hah? So did Hitler had power. Look at how the Law of Justice reversed the situation. God reveled the secret of the atomic bomb to the Americans. Actually, it was again the Law of Justice that gave Hitler and Germany the power they got, in the first place. He was imprisoned and kept taking orders. Germany had suffered a lot of injustice because by the other nations before the war.

The power of a nuclear bomb is a speck compared to the power of a saint. No, I am not a saint yet, but I know the way to become one.

You think I am nuts? Why should I care you think so? I wouldnt be affected even if the whole world says I am nuts. Your wise "principle of majority" crusified Christ.

So far you stubburn people, I have had enough with you. I dont care if I never post again in your forums.

Wow, what a post. All this time, although I suspected that you might be manic, I was just convinced you were stupid. But now I see there are only two possibilities:

1) You get off on pretending to be dumb to get a reaction. In that case, you are just like Saturday Night Live (ie the joke wasnt funny the first time, and it certainly isnt funny the 500th time). Please go away.

2) You really are manic depressive and need to seek medical attention. Unfortunately, manic depressives almost never have insight into their condition and resist being treated. However, if anyone here actually knows this person and his posts are serious, then please get him to a psychiatric hospital immediately before he kills himself and/or God forbid hurts others.

 

[pokeraddict]

IMO The Watchdog only knows the people at AP or even works there but I do not believe he is the same person as Scott Tom/Pokermachine. Go look at some of his other posts here. I believe one had to do with Dobrosoft merging with Full Tilt? Some of it was Pit Bull Poker spam. I'd bet my bankroll they know each other though as the IP issue proves.

 

[Pinababy69]

IMO The Watchdog only knows the people at AP or even works there but I do not believe he is the same person as Scott Tom/Pokermachine.

That was pretty much the way my thoughts were going as well PA, that he wasn't necessarily Scott Tom, but that he may work there, and thus they share the same IP/network. If the Scott Tom login identity, and the Pokermachine identity, do indeed work for AP.....what are the odds that someone who doesn't work at AP would share the exact same IP?

I asked someone about this, and they said that it was unlikely that two different companies would share the same IP addy. Is that reasonable? Shared IP's within a geographic region maybe, but not a company IP.

The stuff that has been posted today over at your forum is absolutely mind boggling, at least to me. Or maybe I should say mind blowing.

 

[Snowman]

A few observations

Once more the story evolves...
As the days pass it seems more information is gradully becoming available to confirm virtually everyones suspicions of AP but I would like to make a couple of general points. Firstly regarding lots0. Unlike a few posters to this thread I find his contributions extremely important, he is after all an affiliate of AP so therefore has a vested financial interest in seeing AP come out of this mess unscathed. I do not agree with his views but surely isn't that the point of forums such as this? Open and free debate can only be healthy. Sure, lots0 requires 'proof' but proof to his satisfaction; considering his position I don't think this is unreasonable. However, for practically everyone else it would appear that sufficient information is available to constitute 'proof' from a legal perspective. I think it's only a question of time before lots0 also becomes part of the majority and will probably become the loudest voice against AP should this happen.
Secondly the issue of revealing personal IP's to put the final nail in AP's coffin. Of course they can't be made available in a general public domain, especally as many have deposited large sums from personal accounts. This would be a hackers dream. However I'm sure an independent third party could provide the answer. This would then be definitive.
None of us want to see rogue operators tainting an industry for which we all have such a passion and the sooner they're rooted out and eliminatd the better for all concerned.
Casinomeister provide an invaluable service...absolutely invaluable. They have a reputation for both impartiality and integrity, that is why we are all members here is it not? Certainly it has it's detractors but an inconsequential minority. In many respects CM have put their reputation on the line by taking this issue so far and we know AP management use the site. Isn't it time they did the same and started to respond by using the same vehicle?

 

[Adanthar]

Once more the story evolves...
As the days pass it seems more information is gradully becoming available to confirm virtually everyones suspicions of AP but I would like to make a couple of general points. Firstly regarding lots0. Unlike a few posters to this thread I find his contributions extremely important, he is after all an affiliate of AP so therefore has a vested financial interest in seeing AP come out of this mess unscathed. I do not agree with his views but surely isn't that the point of forums such as this? Open and free debate can only be healthy. Sure, lots0 requires 'proof' but proof to his satisfaction; considering his position I don't think this is unreasonable. However, for practically everyone else it would appear that sufficient information is available to constitute 'proof' from a legal perspective. I think it's only a question of time before lots0 also becomes part of the majority and will probably become the loudest voice against AP should this happen.
Secondly the issue of revealing personal IP's to put the final nail in AP's coffin. Of course they can't be made available in a general public domain, especally as many have deposited large sums from personal accounts. This would be a hackers dream. However I'm sure an independent third party could provide the answer. This would then be definitive.
None of us want to see rogue operators tainting an industry for which we all have such a passion and the sooner they're rooted out and eliminatd the better for all concerned.
Casinomeister provide an invaluable service...absolutely invaluable. They have a reputation for both impartiality and integrity, that is why we are all members here is it not? Certainly it has it's detractors but an inconsequential minority. In many respects CM have put their reputation on the line by taking this issue so far and we know AP management use the site. Isn't it time they did the same and started to respond by using the same vehicle?

After my initial reaction to him, I've had the same idea, hence why I've been civil with my replies to him so far. However, there is, of course, no way I am publicly posting a file identifying dozens of table changers/observers' IP addresses and emails, lots0's assertion that IP's don't mean anything to the contrary. I don't care if 'most' IP's are dynamic - that leaves out some fraction of people playing a 1K buyin tournament with a lot of money in their accounts.

As I said, though, if you have members willing to vouch for you not being dumb enough to make the file public, I'll send anyone who requests it a copy. This is also why I've been fine all along with letting CM or any other trusted party take a look at the file. In fact, you don't have to go through me. A dozen people at 2+2/Pocketfives have it and have posted about it - if you don't like my copy, feel free to PM any of them. Some of them may even be willing to do it with no conditions attached; I'm simply not willing to be the person that exposes a bunch of innocents to a lot of risk to satisfy, at this point, one guy.

 

[ThodorisK]

Keyser I never pretended to be stupid. I did not pretend anything.

Who's depressed you idiot? Me that I hope to defeat ageing or you that you believe you stop existing after death? Therefore who is most optimistic and cheerful?

Oh, and your morons psychotherapists cannot heal anyone from depression, they are depressed themselves. Most people get depressed because of poverty or because they are ugly or old, and mainly because they believe they dont exist after death. Unless a cure is found for these, depression cannot be cured. You are the stupid ones who believe they can cure you.

 

[SlotsWizard]

Keyser I never pretended to be stupid. I did not pretend anything.

Who's depressed you idiot? Me that I hope to defeat ageing or you that you believe you stop existing after death? Therefore who is most optimistic and cheerful?

Oh, and your morons psychotherapists cannot heal anyone from depression, they are depressed themselves. Most people get depressed because of poverty or because they are ugly or old, and mainly because they believe they dont exist after death. Unless a cure is found for these, depression cannot be cured. You are the stupid ones who believe they can cure you.

Ummmm... off-topic? Let's keep this thread about AP.

 

[ThodorisK]

He went first off topic. He throwed hateful personal accusations to me and I had to throw back the vomit.

 

[pokeraddict]

He went first off topic. He throwed hateful personal accusations to me and I had to throw back the vomit.

Please, this is the biggest thing to probably ever happen in online poker. You have your own thread that I thought you were crazy in, can you please go rant there? Obviously some of your suspicions have come true but just because an already sleazy poker room like AP did something like this does not mean all sites do it. This is the same as saying since Casino Bar rigged their BJ game all online blackjack is rigged or saying because one guy of a certain race is a criminal all people of that race are criminals, it's ridiculous.

Please carry on your discussion about general theories in your own thread.

 

[lots0]

Well I just asked Adanthar for a copy of the email in question.

Just to ease Adanthar's fears, I publicly promise that I will not release any personally identifiable information to the public. I hope that is good enough.

Now I guess I can sit back and wait for the AP hand history and the email from Adanthar.

it will be good to see some evidence.