forgotlogin vs BitStarz

[goatwack]

Just to pitch in, failure to return deposits could be justified if there was clear evidence of a player using stolen/fraudulent payment sources/identification etc. In this case I imagine it would be handed over for criminal investigation/charges and/or returned to the actual owner of said funds..

The OP slamming bitstarz based on licensing and the use of bitcoin implying this basically indicates their shadiness and in the same thread stating they still happily play and are a vip at another site with the same licensing that accepts all of the same crypto currency certainly takes the wind out of the slander sails..

There is a lot of talk about what the casino is or is not doing, should be doing etc. How do we know what they are doing or have already done? As I understand it all we know is the OP is long on public dialogue & slanderous accusations - short on action or follow through, while the casino is short on public dialogue and who knows what if any actions have been/will be taken on their part?

I consulted with matlock, perry mason, ironside, jessica tandy and TMZ and our working theories are:

1. Fraudulent user screams the house is on fire but remains seated...
2. OP is rival casino in disguise on undercover sabotage mission...
3. Sasha Baron Cohen has just introduced us to his latest character
4. Casino pays millions, unjustly steals thousands to support future insanity plea.

oh and shaggy and scooby think the OP is honest and righteous and whoever is wearing the monster costume is probably the guilty party.

I'm truly appalled that you failed to consult not only Poirot, but Columbo. No wonder your theory is is whack

ps Jessica Fletcher can be useful too

pss when she's not indirectly consigning someone to death by her very presence

 

[dionysus]

I'm actually a billionaire....

girl 1: have you had a Brazilian?
girl 2: duh, of course...oo, wait..i forget, is a brazilian more than a million?

 

[me_and_ed]

If it smells like shit, looks like shit and tastes like shit....well then its shit.

Nobody walks away from 40K....this coming from a guy that never looks for his lost ProV1 balls, bothers with $2 or less casino slots slips and simply doesn't give a shit about much with the exception of my family, my credit and the taxman.

 

[xexe]

Yeah this doesn't make sense. If 40k is nothing to you, why even gamble in the first place? If you're so philanthropic, PAB the 40k and donate it to a charity. And why would you reward the casino that scams you and others with 40k?

From the sound of others, I don't doubt that the casino is shady as fuck, and that they would would rather keep the money to themselves than turn it into police if this is fraud. But not even a millionaire would just say "no thanks" to a free 40k. If this really is about some 7 year old fraud conviction, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't hold up in a PAB for the casino. If it isn't a new fraud, then what have you got to lose on PABing?

 

[Slottery]

One thing is that rep who was in contact with casino in question mentioned something like "more like criminal activity" if there is some ground to suspect fraudulent/criminal activity, casino is prohibited to advise player about ongoing investigations in detail as per AML rulings (or not sure about that license there....but in common practice), tipping suspect is really big nono.

Want to make clear that im not saying OP has done anything wrong or calling him fraudster or anything else and have no idea what had happened, but rep gave quite strong statement about this issue and also these security checks are bit supporting that there is something what ring bells, selfie outside home etc... (hard to believe that they just confiscate deposit and winnings both if there is no any legal ground).

Would assume that PAB dont give much information if they (what they clearly at this stage should have done) are suspecting any kind of criminal/fraudulent activity and have reported it to......where ever you report them in Curacao is another thing

 

[homerbert]

As per thread name says - I'm watching to the thread with all my attention!

Dear customer, I'm again suggest you to contact Curacao (I can give you 100% guarantee that they will come to us with investigation) or you can PAB.

It's free. It's fast. It's 100% fair.
Submit Your Online Casino Complaint - Casinomeister

Other than that - have a great day everyone!

BR,

V.

 

[TheAverageGuy]

ps Jessica Fletcher can be useful too

pss when she's not indirectly consigning someone to death by her very presence

I actually meant Fletcher, intended to type Fletcher, somehow Tandy came out.. probably the witchlike powers she inherited on her 186th birthday..

 

[The Dude]

mack, in honesty since this issue, it has totally put me off online gambling for the time being. when you lose, you lose. if you win big, you still arent guarunteed anything, you are at their mercy.
so maybe this is why i am rather blase. i see it as a wake up call and will save me money in the longer term, if im able to avoid further online gaming.

I say bullshit. Why in the hell have you not PABd is beyond me. We have representatives for this casino here (besides Homerbert who just chimed in trying to help), and this thread has gone on for a week - 8 pages long.

You either PAB now, or you will be forfeiting your forum account. We have rules about posting complaints, and you should be well aware of them. When you post a complaint you are to ensure it is free of abusive language, and you are to contact the casino rep immediately to let them know you have posted. DO NOT exploit this forum and my hospitality. This is not your private circus.

PAB now. Thank you.

 

[The Dude]

In case you have forgotten where to look:

And what do these rules say about posting complaints??

Well read them:

 

[Harry_BKK]

The chickens come home to roost!

I said from the start that 99.99% we won't see a PAB. And it doesn't look like it will happen for reasons the OP surely is aware off and Direx / Vitali on the other side too.

 

[The Dude]

Well, the PAB is the most efficient way to get to the truth. If this member truly wants his case to be reviewed and hopefully resolved - the PAB is the way to go. I don't understand why this guy, who has been a member for some time now, did not do that to begin with.

 

[Slottery]

Well, the PAB is the most efficient way to get to the truth. If this member truly wants his case to be reviewed and hopefully resolved - the PAB is the way to go. I don't understand why this guy, who has been a member for some time now, did not do that to begin with.

In general, i don't understand why people start huge rant topic instead of contacting rep and doing PAB first, haven't seen many cases where somebody would have got justice by using abusive language and suiting casino about stealing, it right away give at least me picture that there is not whole truth in that post.

If there would be clear case or something unfair or unreasonable in case, reps for accredited casinos or PAB would probably be 100 times more efficient that accusing any casino about stealing, waste of time and probably not really motivating for CM and rep to help people after that kind of start (even they still do).

After all, this is public forum, first point of contact should be casinos support, when providing them all details they usually can get things investigated by relevant department/person, being polite in chat/email, don't make at least any harm but is adult behavior. If then still feel not getting justice after casino have given their final word, here is PAB service. After that process you for sure get fair decision, if Max have done "few" of these and can trust 99,8% sure that when he gets all information he can make fair judgement to back player or casino and if he thinks player has got unfair decision, it will be brought out to this community and casino in question many times fine themselves from Pit.

As somebody mentioned in other topic, patience is not bad thing to have. Fully understandable that none of us don't want to wait for withdrawal approved but for all operators (if payments are not automated when filling certain criterias), there are bit delays time to time, can be that there are two people from payments are sick, there is some huge promotion which double workload (yes, should prepare to these by extra staff) or it can even be that they don't have enough people and are looking to hire more which is not easy (all can check over internet how much casinos are looking staff, especially support, payments, kyc team etc.....).

Not defending casinos who are acting unethically but when following correct procedures in this forum, they find themselves from Pit or at least in warnings. This is just what i would do if i would have issues which i fortunately so far haven't had.

 

[The Dude]

And he has submitted his PAB.

 

[Playford7]

And he has submitted his PAB.

Superb news, guess the truth will be outed.
Be interesting reading whatever the outcome.

 

[Playford7]

To be fair he didn't restart the thread activity tonight, and did say he was a millionaire [and also that he had a past conviction for fraud] so maybe he just can't be arsed; I must admit something still doesn't feel right to me as the onus would initially be on the casino to prove fraud and he could reply in turn to this.

If the casino 100% believe their version, that a fraud was committed, shouldn't the authorities be alerted to his identity, so that other casinos can be alerted, and the deposited money what happens to it? in a case of fraud it surely can't be retained by the casino for themselves, it all seems a bit lax from both parties...

Befuddlement aside I guess we will have to file this one alongside lord lucan and the bermuda triangle

He’s submitted a PAB, someone here is very wrong, casino vs player.

 

[Scott1baird]

Stupid question but now there is a fab and casinomiester will get this info without the OP being able to see, surely he will be able to ask for this information through the freedom of information act?

 

[dunover]

Stupid question but now there is a fab and casinomiester will get this info without the OP being able to see, surely he will be able to ask for this information through the freedom of information act?

I'd want more than a fab for 40 alleged K.

Seriously though, the player when entering the PAB agrees up front to the machinations of the process and MaxD's administering of said process. So if he deems information sensitive but believes in the veracity of it, he will inform the player of that fact but won't supply necessarily the means or source of it.

 

[mack341]

Stupid question but now there is a fab and casinomiester will get this info without the OP being able to see, surely he will be able to ask for this information through the freedom of information act?

That is a interesting point, one for ternur possibly being a legal eagle, I think the OP will most certainly be told what he has supposed/alleged to have done but no info on how it was detected. Which as Spock would say seems logical.

edit: just to add, I think we ought to wait to have these discussions, once the PAB process is completed.

 

[Valhalla]

Just read the entire thread. At least 8 pages could have been saved with a simple PAB way back in the beginning.

And now, I wait with bated breath...

 

[thr0b]

The FOI does not apply in this case. It's private data.

 

[mack341]

It seems like the post I made earlier before the CM site problem has disappeared plus the earlier ones from @maxd

 

[dunover]

Yeah, we've lost the last hour or so of CM content on the forum it seems. Some reports of posts that were dealt with have reappeared as new ones!

 

[mack341]

Yeah, we've lost the last hour or so of CM content on the forum it seems. Some reports of posts that were dealt with have reappeared as new ones!

The edit I did last night to my brexit post has also gone, maybe it's not time limited but data limited? [i'm no techie ]

 

[goatwack]

All my hate-mail's gone also?

What's happening Casinomeister?

 

[maxd]

Yeah, I had said that the casino had responded, I agreed with their decision and ruled against the player. Case closed AFAIC.
Someone had said "it was fraud" to which I replied "no comment".
I'd also said that I was changing the thread title to something neutral because that seemed more appropriate given the circumstances, IMO.
Oh, also, the sharp-eyed reader will notice that the OP has been booted off the site.

 

[The Dude]

We had a data base burp and had to restore it from an earlier version Sorry about that

 

[mack341]

the gist of my post was

1. was the complainant informed of the reason why his deposits and winnings were confiscated, i.e not the method of detection, but category, eg. identity fraud

2. have the deposits been returned to the bank/rightful owner of the card as they would have to be in a case of fraud?

 

[goatwack]

So will we have to back up our our posts here on in? I hadn't planned on buying an external hard drive

 

[maxd]

the gist of my post was

1. was the complainant informed of the reason why his deposits and winnings were confiscated, i.e not the method of detection, but category, eg. identity fraud
2. have the deposits been returned to the bank/rightful owner of the card as they would have to be in a case of fraud?

You'll have to ask the casino, it's not part of the PAB mandate to police the casino's accounting practices.

 

[mack341]

You'll have to ask the casino, it's not part of the PAB mandate to police the casino's management of player accounts.

yes but that seems rather crucial to the PAB decision outcome of 'fraud/crime', and also this hasn't answered the first question.

The guidance on the ukgc site for ADR, which while I accept this is not technically that, it is still a form of alternative resolution, and the underlying principles will be the same, states

"• Non-payment of winnings/account suspension due to issues related to fraud or crime, but not money laundering. We expect ADR providers to consider the dispute based on the gambling business’s actions and the available evidence from both parties. Relevant considerations could include whether there is an ongoing police or criminal investigation, or the suspicion has been reported to the authorities.

Providers should note that unless prevented from doing so by legislation (such as criminal, or linked to data protection), they must be prepared to share the evidence on which they base their decision with both parties to the dispute, as required by the ADR Regulations, Schedule 3, part 7 (Fairness)."

so the last part above goes one further on my first question re the nature of the complaint, so there should be plenty of leeway for you to actually say what the crime/fraud was, the area, e.g. somebody else's bank card was used etc.. there doesn't have to be any info on how the crime was detected.

 

[The Dude]

the gist of my post was

1. was the complainant informed of the reason why his deposits and winnings were confiscated, i.e not the method of detection, but category, eg. identity fraud

2. have the deposits been returned to the bank/rightful owner of the card as they would have to be in a case of fraud?

You'll find that in many cases, the casinos won't refund deposits to fraudsters - especially when crimes are being committed. Times are changing now. It used to be that fraudsters moved from one casino to the next at warp speed, and casino operators were playing whack-a-mole with them. But since there is more oversight and compliance with regulatory bodies, fraudsters are now getting visits from their local police. Identity theft is a punishable crime in most parts of the world, and those who are doing this are getting wake up calls.

I am not referring specifically to this case, but in general.

 

[maxd]

... Providers should note that unless prevented from doing so by legislation (such as criminal, or linked to data protection), they must be prepared to share the evidence on which they base their decision with both parties to the dispute, as required by the ADR Regulations, Schedule 3, part 7 (Fairness)....

And that is precisely why we withdrew our application to be an ADR for the UKGC. I believe it also played a part in ThePogg returning his ADR credentials and withdrawing from the UKGC's ADR process but you should verify that with him to be certain. In our opinion such a policy is monumentally wrong-headed and a pointless aid to fraudsters. Not what we're about.

If the OP -- or anyone else for that matter -- has issues with how his deposits were handled he's welcome to take it to court.

For the case at hand our job was to determine the veracity of the OP's complaint and the fairness of the casino's judgement against him. That job has been done and my involvement with the issue ends there.

 

[mack341]

And that is precisely why we withdrew our application to be an ADR. Such a policy is wrong-headed and an aid to fraudsters, not what we're about.

If the OP -- or anyone else for that matter -- has issues with how his deposits were handled he's welcome to take it to court.

For the case at hand our job was to determine the veracity of the OP's complaint and the fairness of the casino's judgement against him. That job has been done and my involvement with that issue ends there.

But you've missed the first point now, that the actions bitstarz have taken regarding the deposits is relevant to your decision, it's a question that needs to be resolved. In a case of fraud or crime the casino would definitely contact the bank from where the deposit was made, the issue has come up on the thread several times and the rep has replied to other points but not this most important of points.

The OP admitted he'd had a previous conviction for fraud, so he's on a sticky wicket from the off, however the casino in question also has a tarnished record as far as I understand

edit: and question 1 has also still not been answered, was the reason for confiscation of deposits and winnings given; and why can this not be shared with the forum as you normally do in PABs. to say he used fake id and somebody else's bank card does not help fraudsters do the same, actually the opposite it would be a deterrent to fraudsters as it mean bitstarz's detection methods were sound.

 

[slotter999]

CIA Superior: What do we learn, Palmer?
Chad Feldheimer: I dont know sir.
CIA Superior: I don't f****ng know either.
Chad Feldheimer: I guess we learned, not to do it again.
Chad Feldheimer: Yes sir.
CIA Superior: I'm f***ed if I know what we did.

 

[mack341]

CIA Superior: What do we learn, Palmer?
Chad Feldheimer: I dont know sir.
CIA Superior: I don't f****ng know either.
Chad Feldheimer: I guess we learned, not to do it again.
Chad Feldheimer: Yes sir.
CIA Superior: I'm f***ed if I know what we did.

good film that, had a shocking ending to it if I remember correctly.

 

[mack341]

@homerbert As you are reading and following the thread, can you just clear up 1 point, what is the casino/your group intending to do with the deposited funds taking into account Max has upheld your decision regarding crime/fraud?

 

[maxd]

But you've missed the first point now ...

I'd say that's your opinion and you are welcome to it. However, I've said all I care to on this which included, I believe, responding your questions. I'm done here, full stop.

 

[mack341]

I'd say that's your opinion and you are welcome to it. However, I've said all I care to on this including, I believe, answering your questions. I'm done here, full stop.

In my humble opinion the questions I raised haven't been answered, but as that is your last word on the topic there is no my point in me repeating them. Hopefully @homerbert can just confirm the destiny of the withheld deposited funds?

 

[The Dude]

@mack341 Why do you care so much about this? Just wondering.

 

[mack341]

@mack341 Why do you care so much about this? Just wondering.

well it just seems logical, I think some other members not just me are also curious as to what happened to the deposited funds, also as there is an active CM warning against this group I can't help but be sceptical of radio silence re this issue.

 

[Tirilej]

well it just seems logical, I think some other members not just me are also curious as to what happened to the deposited funds, also as there is an active CM warning against this group I can't help but be sceptical of radio silence re this issue.

Maybe you can find an answer if you read Bitstarz T&C's. It should be covered there.

 

[homerbert]

Hey guys!

@mack341 I should not and do not want to confirm what happened with the funds. It is fraud case, PAB confirmed my words on first page, and I really do not want to discuss it further. And indeed it is strange that you keep asking this question.

I bet 99% users of this forum are not fraudsters, then their deposits will never be confiscated.

Br,

V.

 

[The Dude]

It's up to the casino or its regulatory body on what to do with deposited funds. Like Max said, this has nothing to do with the PAB process, and if this guy feels he has a case to get them back (if he hasn't gotten them back) I am sure that any lawyer would take this up if he has a case here. I don't think he does. In fact, I would be on full Five-O alert if I were him.

Dealing with deposits of fraudsters is 100% different than with advantage players. People confuse the two - to include casino operators. In most cases, AP deposits are returned - fraudulent deposits are not or either confiscated by the bank (stolen credit cards, stolen ID etc.). Sometimes casinos take these funds and donate them to charity. I don't know what Bitstarz is planning to do - that is not within the scope of this PAB. A reminder to read the full terms and conditions of any casino for what happens to deposits under extraordinary circumstances.

 

[The Dude]

Bummer for this dude:

• 3.2.7
  It's the responsibility of the player to ensure that all documents as a part of the KYC process are genuine. Faked or fraudulent documents provided may result in a confiscation of deposits and potential winnings of the player.
  

 

[mack341]

Hey guys!

@mack341 I should not and do not want to confirm what happened with the funds. It is fraud case, PAB confirmed my words on first page, and I really do not want to discuss it further. And indeed it is strange that you keep asking this question.

I bet 99% users of this forum are not fraudsters, then their deposits will never be confiscated.

Br,

V.

I don't think it is strange, and I feel you're implying, [and happy to leave it hanging in the air] for asking this logical question, I must be some sort of nark for fraudsters, I just didn't see the harm in you answering that question. If a complaint thread which subsequently ends up as a PAB, has back and forth points made in it like this case, questions come up and it just seems odd this one must remain unanswered even though it could easily be dealt with. But if you don't wish to, then that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned.
[Maybe I watched too much columbo growing up ! ]

 

[Borgie]

Just one more thing . Columbo. Loved that programme. Have you got the grubby mack?

 

[Casino12345]

Hey guys!

@mack341 I should not and do not want to confirm what happened with the funds. It is fraud case, PAB confirmed my words on first page, and I really do not want to discuss it further. And indeed it is strange that you keep asking this question.

I bet 99% users of this forum are not fraudsters, then their deposits will never be confiscated.

Br,

V.

Mwah, we all have seen the Banana Jones PAB which was highly remarkable, so I def get his questions.

 

[chuchu59]

My own experience. Lowroller and bitstartz has always been prompt in paying out. Several hours usually.

 

[CANADAMAN99]

I love bitstarz, best casino in the world even though I'm on a terrible awful losing streak there. I trust them 100% and have never had cashout issues.

 

[samdog21]

you won of the lucky ones especially you from canada