Casinodeal.com requesting players data from casino.

[SlotMonster]

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for their input in this thread.

As it was mentioned in several posts, my intention was not to damage casinodeal's reputation. I asked questions, wanted to receive answers, and I appreciate those who answered. A piece of advice given there is also much appreciated, of course.

I assume it was a foolish decision to post on different forums before getting this issue clarified / resolved on the Casinomeister forum, and I apology for that. I also contacted AGD and GPWA management asking to remove these threads.

I also assume that there MAY BE a misunderstanding between me and Shaun, and I hope that he will answer my questions without personal attacks on my language skills, to make it clear. As I admitted in the other thread, my oral skills way far from being good, but I'm still good at reading and writing (and listening as well). And I'm ready to provide the record for investigation (IMO, it would be the easiest solution).

And I still have a few questions to Shaun.

In our conversation you said that you are working this way with all casinos listed on your website. However, one of the casinos listed on your website contacted me stating that they were never asked about this kind of information. The second one stated that they were asked for this info, but didn't agree to send it, and they are working with you on regular Revenue Share.

1) Can you please tell me, why some casinos (at least one) were asked of this data, and some - not?

In our conversation you also stated that you will need a complete list of players, who joined through your website, with their names (first and last), email, phone, and if they have, or have not made a deposit. Mark (P.V.) made a good point:

A problem occurs when someone that doesn't sign up for their rewards program, simply clicks their affiliate link and signs up at the casino. These players don't want their information shared.

2) Can you please tell me, why you requested complete list of players? I understand it as you need a list of players who registered at BigCasino being registered at your website AND a list of players who registered at BigCasino by just clicking a link without prior registration on your website. Nowhere in our conversation you stated that you just need a list of players who registered at BigCasino being registered at your website.


3) The (2) reises another question: how could we know who of "your" players was registered by just clicking a link, and who is a registered player at your site?

I assume that YOU have to send us a list of players to confirm that they made a deposit or not. Please, explain.

I also would like to ask few questions about your website. These are simple ones, but someone said "The devil is in the detail", so it will be interesting to know.

4) A simple search through web archives indicates that someone was selling your domain since 2007:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(the last found snapshot was from September 17th, 2010 -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) If you were 13 years in the business, how it could be that your domain was inactive for more than 3 years? If you were listed under any different name, can I have one?

5) I also did a search in few SEO databases, for example, in SemRush:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

As you can see, your domain haven't had any keywords till September, 2011 and then the number increased from ZERO to 200 in a few months. It clearly indicates massive SEO campaign been started. How could it be, that for 13 years your domain didn't gain any keywords? If you were launched since 1999 and offered an unique services, you (maybe) would be as famous as Casinomeister is (Casinomeister is a known brand, but I seriously doubt that Bryan spent even a buck on SEO).

6) Backlinks. Google indicates your links are from Google Blogs:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

7) Your Facebook page: _http://www.facebook.com/casinodeal The first record on your wall - September, 24th, 2011 and more than 1000 (fake?) likers, no likes, no discussions. Just compare with Casinomeister profile:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

- just 191 likers, but his posts have likes and comments, i.e. the community is live.

8) When I in our conversation I asked for your stats for at least few months, you refused. Could you please explain, why?

It would be much appreciated to receive straight replies and explanations.

Regards,
Viktar.

P.S. I hope there were not too many mistakes in my text, and you can understand what I'm asking for.

 

[KasinoKing]

In my personal opinion, this whole thing looks like a simple misunderstanding which has got blown out of all proportion.
I think Viktar and CasinoDeal should be sorting this out in private and not prolonging this slug-fest on the forum.

KK

 

[The Dude]

In my personal opinion, this whole thing looks like a simple misunderstanding which has got blown out of all proportion.
I think Viktar and CasinoDeal should be sorting this out in private and not prolonging this slug-fest on the forum.

KK

Agreed.

As to the PM I received from lazouche, I was hitting the hay when that came in. I live in Europe and do my work during normal working hours. I'm an old man and need my beauty rest. It's rare that I am online late at night.

 

[Jinn]

As for your Spam Entry that you received, I personally manage all the web ventures and we have no single recollection of that entry made by us.

Maybe check your logs, IP's etc... If you can send that information directly to us we can investigate.

That post was not made by any of the internal staff here.

I would be willing to bet that you have paid an SEO company to create backlinks for you. I had a quick look using the majesticseo tool to see what is linking to your site, here is an example :

xhttp://captainronsseafood.com/the-true-secret-to-the-achievements-your-small-business-and-how-to-discover-buyers/778/

Link de-activated so as not to provide further SEO benefit to that page. You can see that the page on captain ron's seafood website is article-spam created for only one purpose - to link to casinodeal - no doubt created by the same Philippine SEO company that created the link on casinomeister. There's a massive number of these type of spam links pointing to casinodeal, so it's a bit pointless denying any involvement in spamming casinomeister.

 

[vinylweatherman]

.

I think lazouche has a point here. I visited their site and if I have understood it correctly, players who want to be a part of this reward program must first register at CasinoDeal with their real name, e-mail, phone and country. So to be fair, I do not think that CasinoDeal is asking for any new information. They only want casinos to confirm certain details so that CasinoDeal can reward the player according to the program.

Why is the phone number needed?

 

[lazouche]

First of all, I would like to thank everyone for their input in this thread.

As it was mentioned in several posts, my intention was not to damage casinodeal's reputation. I asked questions, wanted to receive answers, and I appreciate those who answered. A piece of advice given there is also much appreciated, of course.

I assume it was a foolish decision to post on different forums before getting this issue clarified / resolved on the Casinomeister forum, and I apology for that. I also contacted AGD and GPWA management asking to remove these threads.

I also assume that there MAY BE a misunderstanding between me and Shaun, and I hope that he will answer my questions without personal attacks on my language skills, to make it clear. As I admitted in the other thread, my oral skills way far from being good, but I'm still good at reading and writing (and listening as well). And I'm ready to provide the record for investigation (IMO, it would be the easiest solution).

And I still have a few questions to Shaun.

In our conversation you said that you are working this way with all casinos listed on your website. However, one of the casinos listed on your website contacted me stating that they were never asked about this kind of information. The second one stated that they were asked for this info, but didn't agree to send it, and they are working with you on regular Revenue Share.

1) Can you please tell me, why some casinos (at least one) were asked of this data, and some - not?

In our conversation you also stated that you will need a complete list of players, who joined through your website, with their names (first and last), email, phone, and if they have, or have not made a deposit. Mark (P.V.) made a good point:

2) Can you please tell me, why you requested complete list of players? I understand it as you need a list of players who registered at BigCasino being registered at your website AND a list of players who registered at BigCasino by just clicking a link without prior registration on your website. Nowhere in our conversation you stated that you just need a list of players who registered at BigCasino being registered at your website.


3) The (2) reises another question: how could we know who of "your" players was registered by just clicking a link, and who is a registered player at your site?

I assume that YOU have to send us a list of players to confirm that they made a deposit or not. Please, explain.

I also would like to ask few questions about your website. These are simple ones, but someone said "The devil is in the detail", so it will be interesting to know.

4) A simple search through web archives indicates that someone was selling your domain since 2007:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(the last found snapshot was from September 17th, 2010 -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) If you were 13 years in the business, how it could be that your domain was inactive for more than 3 years? If you were listed under any different name, can I have one?

5) I also did a search in few SEO databases, for example, in SemRush:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

As you can see, your domain haven't had any keywords till September, 2011 and then the number increased from ZERO to 200 in a few months. It clearly indicates massive SEO campaign been started. How could it be, that for 13 years your domain didn't gain any keywords? If you were launched since 1999 and offered an unique services, you (maybe) would be as famous as Casinomeister is (Casinomeister is a known brand, but I seriously doubt that Bryan spent even a buck on SEO).

6) Backlinks. Google indicates your links are from Google Blogs:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

7) Your Facebook page: _http://www.facebook.com/casinodeal The first record on your wall - September, 24th, 2011 and more than 1000 (fake?) likers, no likes, no discussions. Just compare with Casinomeister profile:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

- just 191 likers, but his posts have likes and comments, i.e. the community is live.

8) When I in our conversation I asked for your stats for at least few months, you refused. Could you please explain, why?

It would be much appreciated to receive straight replies and explanations.

Regards,
Viktar.

P.S. I hope there were not too many mistakes in my text, and you can understand what I'm asking for.

So came in this morning, and read the replies and once again it seems like everybody just loves bashing on these forums. Since I do not have a full day to spend on this again, I will ask you to continue your conversation with Shawn over the phone or by email, that is if the team is still interested in partnering up with Viaden.

I can't believe that after all this, you come on here and reply not with one, but eight questions.

This is not Shawn so handle all your questions 1 to 3 with him please. He's much more of a phone guy.

Your other questions are completely out of line... Do we owe you any explanation for our web strategy ??

I think we will just leave it at that. It seemed like a great opportunity to partner with Viaden, but it has become more of a hassle than anything else.

 

[vinylweatherman]

So came in this morning, and read the replies and once again it seems like everybody just loves bashing on these forums. Since I do not have a full day to spend on this again, I will ask you to continue your conversation with Shawn over the phone or by email, that is if the team is still interested in partnering up with Viaden.

I can't believe that after all this, you come on here and reply not with one, but eight questions.

This is not Shawn so handle all your questions 1 to 3 with him please. He's much more of a phone guy.

Your other questions are completely out of line... Do we owe you any explanation for our web strategy ??

I think we will just leave it at that. It seemed like a great opportunity to partner with Viaden, but it has become more of a hassle than anything else.

You DO when it comes to how you handle player's personal information. Here in the UK, it is not merely good practice, but a LEGAL REQUIREMENT.

If you are not the right person to deal with these questions, why have YOU been sent here for the firefighting, rather than the people who really have the knowledge and power to discuss and explain.


You may have had a better time here had it not been for your "black hat" policy of sending shills to other forums to promote casinodeal. Bryan has already busted one of these over here, and it is hard to believe such people do this kind of thing for no reward.

We still have no explanation as to why casinodeal is requiring far more information from players than is necessary in order to fulfil the function of running the rewards program. I don't even see the need for real names, let alone phone numbers. The program could easily be run via casino account numbers, with the casino taking care of the rest of the player's information. I am sure this is the level of information you can see in the normal affiliate stats, with your problem being that this is not enough for you, because you want real names and phone numbers, not just account numbers and forum handles.

 

[lazouche]

You DO when it comes to how you handle player's personal information. Here in the UK, it is not merely good practice, but a LEGAL REQUIREMENT.

If you are not the right person to deal with these questions, why have YOU been sent here for the firefighting, rather than the people who really have the knowledge and power to discuss and explain.


You may have had a better time here had it not been for your "black hat" policy of sending shills to other forums to promote casinodeal. Bryan has already busted one of these over here, and it is hard to believe such people do this kind of thing for no reward.

We still have no explanation as to why casinodeal is requiring far more information from players than is necessary in order to fulfil the function of running the rewards program. I don't even see the need for real names, let alone phone numbers. The program could easily be run via casino account numbers, with the casino taking care of the rest of the player's information. I am sure this is the level of information you can see in the normal affiliate stats, with your problem being that this is not enough for you, because you want real names and phone numbers, not just account numbers and forum handles.

Please do everyone a favor and stop double posting stuff. The player's personal data misunderstanding was already dealt with, multiple times.

I am the right person to deal with, I just don't see why we would ever need justification towards you.

Once again, false accusations regarding spam ... so I will put that aside.

We run a state of the art customer service to our members and we are proud of it. We will ask for any information we deem justified in order to continue offering such great service.

Our members and partners appreciate everything we do. So that is the important thing, not a bunch of posts about your "skepticism" of our operation.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Please do everyone a favor and stop double posting stuff. The player's personal data misunderstanding was already dealt with, multiple times.

I am the right person to deal with, I just don't see why we would ever need justification towards you.

Once again, false accusations regarding spam ... so I will put that aside.

We run a state of the art customer service to our members and we are proud of it. We will ask for any information we deem justified in order to continue offering such great service.

Our members and partners appreciate everything we do. So that is the important thing, not a bunch of posts about your "skepticism" of our operation.

It's not just me.

I am familiar with how CS works. I phone THEM, so they don't need my phone number in order to serve me.

The spam clearly promoted casinodeal, so the accusations are NOT false. The only argument is over who authorised the spam, and who did it and why. If it is casinodeal members doing this, they should suffer sanctions once evidence of the spam is brought to light, as you should have a clear "no spamming" policy in your terms of use, with clear penalties laid out.

This forum permanantly bans users guilty of coming here just to spam the forum, but also the beneficiary of the spam is "named and shamed", as it is they who should be policing their own members.

I am not buying this "misunderstanding" argument as the whole story. I suspect you asked for as much as you thought you could get away with, rather than what you needed, and backtracked because Viaden thought you were crossing the boundaries of what is acceptable.

Remember, Big casino is currently UK only, so they will obviously look to UK law as to whether or not a deal is going to be OK. If they get caught breaching the rules laid down by the Information Commissioner's office, they could be fined, named and shamed, or even thrown out of the UK market.

If casinodeal is holding actual names and phone numbers, are they registered with a privacy regulator like the UK's Information Commissioner's office. It's a requirement for ANY company holding such data to register and be granted a "license" to operate such a database. If casinodeal hasn't done this, they are either based in a country without strong privacy laws, or they are inadvertently breaking the law, but haven't been reprimanded because noone has thought to lodge a complaint.

The vast majority of email spam comes via websites selling on my email address to other sites, resulting in it ending up in the mailing lists of almost every aggressive affiliate out there. Each site that has had it has made empty promises about NOT selling on data gathered from members, but it is clear that some sites DO. Players cannot tell the difference between the honest sites and the dishonest, so the only sensible strategy is to trust NONE of them with such information.

There is actually a simple test to determine whether a specific site or casino leaks out information. If conducted properly, this test is pretty conclusive. It has been discussed here before, but can be impractical when applied to a site or casino where the player has an intent to play, rather than use the registration to perform an integrity test.

 

[lazouche]

It's not just me.

I am familiar with how CS works. I phone THEM, so they don't need my phone number in order to serve me.

The spam clearly promoted casinodeal, so the accusations are NOT false. The only argument is over who authorised the spam, and who did it and why. If it is casinodeal members doing this, they should suffer sanctions once evidence of the spam is brought to light, as you should have a clear "no spamming" policy in your terms of use, with clear penalties laid out.

This forum permanantly bans users guilty of coming here just to spam the forum, but also the beneficiary of the spam is "named and shamed", as it is they who should be policing their own members.

I am not buying this "misunderstanding" argument as the whole story. I suspect you asked for as much as you thought you could get away with, rather than what you needed, and backtracked because Viaden thought you were crossing the boundaries of what is acceptable.

Remember, Big casino is currently UK only, so they will obviously look to UK law as to whether or not a deal is going to be OK. If they get caught breaching the rules laid down by the Information Commissioner's office, they could be fined, named and shamed, or even thrown out of the UK market.

If casinodeal is holding actual names and phone numbers, are they registered with a privacy regulator like the UK's Information Commissioner's office. It's a requirement for ANY company holding such data to register and be granted a "license" to operate such a database. If casinodeal hasn't done this, they are either based in a country without strong privacy laws, or they are inadvertently breaking the law, but haven't been reprimanded because noone has thought to lodge a complaint.

The vast majority of email spam comes via websites selling on my email address to other sites, resulting in it ending up in the mailing lists of almost every aggressive affiliate out there. Each site that has had it has made empty promises about NOT selling on data gathered from members, but it is clear that some sites DO. Players cannot tell the difference between the honest sites and the dishonest, so the only sensible strategy is to trust NONE of them with such information.

There is actually a simple test to determine whether a specific site or casino leaks out information. If conducted properly, this test is pretty conclusive. It has been discussed here before, but can be impractical when applied to a site or casino where the player has an intent to play, rather than use the registration to perform an integrity test.

Once again, our operation is 100% ethical and we do not feel the need to provide any justification to your questions.

We do not conduct any spam, nor do we share any of our members data or what not we have been accused of. All of your accusations are made out of pure self-satisfaction of bringing down CasinoDeal which in fact has never done anything wrong in the first place.

Those are the facts. We do not feel threatened at all by your sayings. We know what we do and how we handle it. What matters at the end is the satisfaction of our members and partners.

 

[maxd]

Once again, our operation is 100% ethical ....

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this sort of thing -- "we are faultless and that is a scientific fact" -- I'd be up to my eyeballs in small change. At best it's not a fact, it's just an opinion. At worst it's complete BS meant to snowball the hopelessly naive into submission. No one, not even your wonderful establishment, is 100% beyond reproach.

FYI to make such claims says something more like "we're guilty as charged but you don't need to know that" than anything else. It looks bogus, it sounds bogus, it smells bogus: chances are pretty fair that it is bogus.

And to follow that up with something like "we do not feel the need to provide any justification to your questions" is doubly suspect. Firstly the authoritarian voice is hardly convincing. Secondly, you chose to come here and debate this. Now you feel no need to answer the tough questions? Good for you, but don't imagine for a second that the readership is likely to see this as a smart or credible move.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Once again, our operation is 100% ethical and we do not feel the need to provide any justification to your questions.

We do not conduct any spam, nor do we share any of our members data or what not we have been accused of. All of your accusations are made out of pure self-satisfaction of bringing down CasinoDeal which in fact has never done anything wrong in the first place.

Those are the facts. We do not feel threatened at all by your sayings. We know what we do and how we handle it. What matters at the end is the satisfaction of our members and partners.

This, in essence, is what is being discussed in this thread.

I don't give a rat's ass about bringing down casinodeal, but I DO worry about any possibility that players are being lead up the garden path, perhaps in this case not knowing the true price of what they are getting from their membership at casinodeal.

The spam happened, whether or not casindeal instigated it, rewarded it, turned a blind eye, or simply didn't know.

If your players are happy, good luck to them, but it was SHAWN that approached Big casino, not the other way around. His approach clearly backfired, and now you are here to clean up the mess. Whatever happened in that Skype call, it has sown the seeds of suspicion about how information is handled by affiliate sites that run reward schemes, as well as those casinos that participate.

This in a background of suspicion because despite assurances, players who sign up at such sites end up getting bombarded with spam for online casinos, and it is almost impossible to tell which site was the one without ethics, thus ALL sites are under the spotlight. Casinodeal could be innocent, yet have the finger pointed because of a string of coincidences. No different really than the innocent player who gets accused of fraud by a casino because of too many odd coincidences make them look guilty. In such cases, "I'm innocent, I don't have to justify this to your casino" simply doesn't wash.

Casinodeal does not HAVE to justify anything. It can decide to ignore this forum and carry on as before, and this thread will quickly die.

 

[lazouche]

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this sort of thing -- "we are faultless and that is a scientific fact" -- I'd be up to my eyeballs in small change. At best it's not a fact, it's just an opinion. At worst it's complete BS meant to snowball the hopelessly naive into submission. No one, not even your wonderful establishment, is 100% beyond reproach.

FYI to make such claims says something more like "we're guilty as charged but you don't need to know that" than anything else. It looks bogus, it sounds bogus, it smells bogus: chances are pretty fair that it is bogus.

And to follow that up with something like "we do not feel the need to provide any justification to your questions" is doubly suspect. Firstly the authoritarian voice is hardly convincing. Secondly, you chose to come here and debate this. Now you feel no need to answer the tough questions? Good for you, but don't imagine for a second that the readership is likely to see this as a smart or credible move.

I guess you haven't read the thread as well and you wanted to add your two cents of BS like you said because it makes you feel good to do so for some odd reason.

If you would have read it, you would see that I am not the one who came on here to debate these issues.

Whatever smells bogus to you guys is not what is important. We have a phone number on our website, unlike almost ALL other casino related website. Call Us, have a chat with us, maybe your perspective will be different.

We have so many point of contacts, we're not hiding from anyone. This makes me laugh more than anything.

I think the ones hiding are the affiliates not showing any more point of contact than a website full of advertising content. Some of them do not even have a contact form or even an email. So please, your comments are going to complete waste.

 

[lazouche]

This, in essence, is what is being discussed in this thread.

I don't give a rat's ass about bringing down casinodeal, but I DO worry about any possibility that players are being lead up the garden path, perhaps in this case not knowing the true price of what they are getting from their membership at casinodeal.

The spam happened, whether or not casindeal instigated it, rewarded it, turned a blind eye, or simply didn't know.

If your players are happy, good luck to them, but it was SHAWN that approached Big casino, not the other way around. His approach clearly backfired, and now you are here to clean up the mess. Whatever happened in that Skype call, it has sown the seeds of suspicion about how information is handled by affiliate sites that run reward schemes, as well as those casinos that participate.

This in a background of suspicion because despite assurances, players who sign up at such sites end up getting bombarded with spam for online casinos, and it is almost impossible to tell which site was the one without ethics, thus ALL sites are under the spotlight. Casinodeal could be innocent, yet have the finger pointed because of a string of coincidences. No different really than the innocent player who gets accused of fraud by a casino because of too many odd coincidences make them look guilty. In such cases, "I'm innocent, I don't have to justify this to your casino" simply doesn't wash.

Casinodeal does not HAVE to justify anything. It can decide to ignore this forum and carry on as before, and this thread will quickly die.

Sure so go ahead, feel free to post on our forums and ask members if they get "bombarded" with stuff or we do any funky things like you pretend with their data.

You guys should appreciate what we are doing for the player community, this thread is a complete shame.

Perhaps there are other motives as to why you guys are all ganging up on CasinoDeal .... hmmmm ... makes me wonder.

 

[vinylweatherman]

"Trusted..... since 1999".

Odd then that you have a mere 450 members give or take, and no substantive history prior to 2011 on your forum.

I submit therefore that you are trading on someone ELSE'S "good name", rather than a trust the CURRENT owners of Casino Deal have built up since 1999.


Looking at your forum, a "newbie" posts that he received a PHONE call "from one of your representatives" urging him to "join casino deal". The admin reply sees nothing wrong with HOW this guy was enticed to join Casinodeal, and just gives him a run of the mill introduction as to what to expect.

The rewards program offers $3 CASH for every $10 deposited at participating casinos. This is either a recipie for ruin, or there is a nasty catch hidden in the small print. Affiliates may well earn 35% on each deposit, but only if the deposit is LOST to the casino. This leads players to believe that they will get $3 back for every $10 irrespective of whether they lose, or win and withdraw. This simply doesn't make sense, and the ONLY way you could cover this is by rebating almost 100% of affiliate earnings to players, AND only counting deposits that are LOST to the casino, not TOTAL deposits.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to "abuse" this system, so it CANNOT work as advertised.

With only 450 members, casino deal is a very small player in this market, but seems to offer "too good to be true" levels of rewards. This is going to lead to disappointment, and may only be working now because you have relatively few members.

A mere 450 members also demonstrates a plausible motive to spam other fora, and there is already testimony that you use a list of phone numbers and have "representatives" call up prospects in order to entice them to join, so it is not much of a leap of the imagination to expect that "representatives" will push the boundaries when it comes to advertising on other boards.

The casinodeal phone number is actually a US only toll free "untraceable" number, and nowhere is there a postal address. This is not exactly "in the open", and further, only US and Canadian members have access to your phone support, the rest have to use your webform, or ask in the forum. Given that you ask for personal details, it is impossible to determine under which jurisdiction you hold and process such data.

The current casinodeal has been "online" for less than a year, so any trust beyond this was earned by the previous owners of the domain. You can buy a domain, but trust is earned, not bought.

There is also a difference of opinion between CM members and yourselves over which casinos you consider worthy of players' custom, but at least you don't promote any from the Virtual group.


I also note that unlike CM, if a player has a problem with a casino on your site, and has joined through your site, you will do what you can to help, but if it's a casino on your site that a member already had an account with before joining casinodeal, it's "you're on your own". CM will help ALL members, old and new, if they have a problem with an accredited casino, and will even allow a "one shot" dispute from a new member for a non-accredited casino if there are lines of contact available.

CM himself has run this site throughout it's life, so has EARNED the trust due to the many years that CM has been online, rather than having bought a domain with embedded goodwill earned under a previous team.

Whether casinodeal deserves the label "trusted since 1999" can only be decided over time.

 

[lazouche]

"Trusted..... since 1999".

Odd then that you have a mere 450 members give or take, and no substantive history prior to 2011 on your forum.

I submit therefore that you are trading on someone ELSE'S "good name", rather than a trust the CURRENT owners of Casino Deal have built up since 1999.


Looking at your forum, a "newbie" posts that he received a PHONE call "from one of your representatives" urging him to "join casino deal". The admin reply sees nothing wrong with HOW this guy was enticed to join Casinodeal, and just gives him a run of the mill introduction as to what to expect.

The rewards program offers $3 CASH for every $10 deposited at participating casinos. This is either a recipie for ruin, or there is a nasty catch hidden in the small print. Affiliates may well earn 35% on each deposit, but only if the deposit is LOST to the casino. This leads players to believe that they will get $3 back for every $10 irrespective of whether they lose, or win and withdraw. This simply doesn't make sense, and the ONLY way you could cover this is by rebating almost 100% of affiliate earnings to players, AND only counting deposits that are LOST to the casino, not TOTAL deposits.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to "abuse" this system, so it CANNOT work as advertised.

With only 450 members, casino deal is a very small player in this market, but seems to offer "too good to be true" levels of rewards. This is going to lead to disappointment, and may only be working now because you have relatively few members.

A mere 450 members also demonstrates a plausible motive to spam other fora, and there is already testimony that you use a list of phone numbers and have "representatives" call up prospects in order to entice them to join, so it is not much of a leap of the imagination to expect that "representatives" will push the boundaries when it comes to advertising on other boards.

The casinodeal phone number is actually a US only toll free "untraceable" number, and nowhere is there a postal address. This is not exactly "in the open", and further, only US and Canadian members have access to your phone support, the rest have to use your webform, or ask in the forum. Given that you ask for personal details, it is impossible to determine under which jurisdiction you hold and process such data.

The current casinodeal has been "online" for less than a year, so any trust beyond this was earned by the previous owners of the domain. You can buy a domain, but trust is earned, not bought.

There is also a difference of opinion between CM members and yourselves over which casinos you consider worthy of players' custom, but at least you don't promote any from the Virtual group.


I also note that unlike CM, if a player has a problem with a casino on your site, and has joined through your site, you will do what you can to help, but if it's a casino on your site that a member already had an account with before joining casinodeal, it's "you're on your own". CM will help ALL members, old and new, if they have a problem with an accredited casino, and will even allow a "one shot" dispute from a new member for a non-accredited casino if there are lines of contact available.

CM himself has run this site throughout it's life, so has EARNED the trust due to the many years that CM has been online, rather than having bought a domain with embedded goodwill earned under a previous team.

Whether casinodeal deserves the label "trusted since 1999" can only be decided over time.

So I stopped reading your post at this point "The rewards program offers $3 CASH for every $10 deposited at participating casinos" which you wrote above.

If you can't read the rewards program right, then I do not think your post are worthy of reading because once again, you are posting FALSE things on public forums and this is getting very aggravating.

Bryan? Can you intervene in this please? This has gone way too far.

I am not sure if this guy is trying to purposely bring down our name or what not, but clearly something is wrong with his reading and math and then comes on here and posts FALSE stuff on our rewards program.

Why is that allowed?

Come on. Enough is enough.

 

[vinylweatherman]

So I stopped reading your post at this point "The rewards program offers $3 CASH for every $10 deposited at participating casinos" which you wrote above.

If you can't read the rewards program right, then I do not think your post are worthy of reading because once again, you are posting FALSE things on public forums and this is getting very aggravating.

Bryan? Can you intervene in this please? This has gone way too far.

I am not sure if this guy is trying to purposely bring down our name or what not, but clearly something is wrong with his reading and math and then comes on here and posts FALSE stuff on our rewards program.

Why is that allowed?

Come on. Enough is enough.

Nothing wrong with my maths.

Say I deposit $2000, and play it a couple of times through, ending up with $1800, which I withdraw. You give me $3 for $10, which is $600. Rinse & repeat at every one of the 2 dozen casinos on your site, I lose $200 at each one, but you give me $600 cash, so I actually end up in profit by $400 each time.

Now, where does this money come from, certainly NOT from your affiliate revenue based on the $200 I lost.

This program as described simply does not work mathematically, and sooner or later some sneaky "small print" would bite me in the ass long before I bankrupted your site.


Your program can only work because your players are "loose", and end up losing almost all their deposits. If "advantage players" get wind of this, you are going to be in a heap of trouble.

 

[lazouche]

Nothing wrong with my maths.

Say I deposit $2000, and play it a couple of times through, ending up with $1800, which I withdraw. You give me $3 for $10, which is $600. Rinse & repeat at every one of the 2 dozen casinos on your site, I lose $200 at each one, but you give me $600 cash, so I actually end up in profit by $400 each time.

Now, where does this money come from, certainly NOT from your affiliate revenue based on the $200 I lost.

This program as described simply does not work mathematically, and sooner or later some sneaky "small print" would bite me in the ass long before I bankrupted your site.


Your program can only work because your players are "loose", and end up losing almost all their deposits. If "advantage players" get wind of this, you are going to be in a heap of trouble.

I thought that post would wake you up on your mistake but I guess it didn't.

So I will give you the breakdown to make it easier.

If you deposit $2000, you get 200 CasinoDeal Points

As per our website ...

"Get 1 POINT for every $10 Deposit you make with Online Casinos we represent."

Then .. again ... as per our website

"Cash Conversion: 10 Points = $3"

Therefore 200 CasinoDeal Points = $60

... Something is wrong with your math ... Leave it at that seriously. We have done nothing wrong and you are all ganging up on us.

For your "question", I do not know how many experience you have working on the web but your comments definitely prove many things

Everything CasinoDeal is as of today is hard work by our team and we are definitely proud of it.

You're not doing your research right.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I thought that post would wake you up on your mistake but I guess it didn't.

So I will give you the breakdown to make it easier.

If you deposit $2000, you get 200 CasinoDeal Points

As per our website ...

"Get 1 POINT for every $10 Deposit you make with Online Casinos we represent."

Then .. again ... as per our website

"Cash Conversion: 10 Points = $3"

Therefore 200 CasinoDeal Points = $60

... Something is wrong with your math ... Leave it at that seriously. We have done nothing wrong and you are all ganging up on us.

For your "question", I do not know how many experience you have working on the web but your comments definitely prove many things

Everything CasinoDeal is as of today is hard work by our team and we are definitely proud of it.

You're not doing your research right.

Granted,

...but since 1999?

If so, I would not call it "hard work" if the current site represents the sum total of 12 years of hard work by your team.


If I deposit $2000, I get back $60 cash. Nowhere near as bad, but advantage players have targetted much thinner margins than that. Casinos have often found themselves having to back track on initial offerings because of this, so it is possible that casinodeal may face similar issues as it draws in more members.

It seems your site lends itself to generating misunderstandings.

 

[lazouche]

Granted,

...but since 1999?

If so, I would not call it "hard work" if the current site represents the sum total of 12 years of hard work by your team.


If I deposit $2000, I get back $60 cash. Nowhere near as bad, but advantage players have targetted much thinner margins than that. Casinos have often found themselves having to back track on initial offerings because of this, so it is possible that casinodeal may face similar issues as it draws in more members.

It seems your site lends itself to generating misunderstandings.

Now you're blaming the site? Shame on you. You are the first person not understand the points conversion, so the problem is not the website.

You're done with one thing, you go on the next. Find maybe something better to do with your time.

At the same time, I would like to invite all our CasinoDeal members reading this post to read our latest entry on this despicable event.

xhttp://www.casinodeal.com/forums/online-casinos/casinomeisters-forum-post-followup/

 

[The Dude]

Admin Warning - Dissing moderators

I guess you haven't read the thread as well and you wanted to add your two cents of BS like you said because it makes you feel good to do so for some odd reason...

...So please, your comments are going to complete waste.

Do NOT disrespect the moderators in this forum. That will be your only warning.

 

[lazouche]

And this is not disrespect "I'd be up to my eyeballs in small change. At best it's not a fact, it's just an opinion. At worst it's complete BS meant to snowball the hopelessly naive into submission" ???

Seems like this whole forum is completely biased. Classic.

Bryan, if you are not neutral in this and are taking part with someone, then I am sorry to say that it's not worth much.

People who have no respect for anything do not deserve that treatment. I have been very respectful and answered all your member's weird requests and strong math.

Writing with such sarcastic tone is very insulting as well.

Don't expect more respect than you give.

 

[The Dude]

Well, to be honest you've insulted or have been disrespectful to just about anyone who has asked the tough questions here. So far you've received two infractions in 24 hours - any more and your account will become rather useless.

Max is a moderator - he's calling the shots. Get over it.

As for me, I can do that too.

So to begin with, if your company has been "trusted since 1999" how come I've never heard of you except from a spam incident here in the forum last month?

 

[lazouche]

Not everyone's strategy is the same. You should know that we have been in this industry for over 10 years.

Much of our operations were offline where the fact that we have a long established call center well before the website. You guys are trying to get in the shoes of everyone because another website has added TONS of features and keeps adding features on a constant basis and you probably don't like it.

So have we been around since 1999? YES, was it necessarily online? none of your business. Now it is, here we are.

Your motto is "Advocate of Fair Play", to me sounds like before talking about play, be fair to your members.

I would have to disagree with your post that I have been disrespectful to anyone answering. As far as I am concerned, answering on technicalities of our operations is none of your business.

If people take that as insulting, which is seems like it does, then you should apply it to anyone here.

Your motive of "He calls the shot" shows to great extent the kind of forums you run here.

The conclusion is that we have done nothing wrong in the first place, get accused of all sorts of things and then we have to waste our time to answer your non-sense accusations ? no thanks

 

[SlotMonster]

I have been very respectful and answered all your member's weird requests and strong math.

Did I miss the post with answers to MY "weird" questions?

 

[lazouche]

Did I miss the post with answers to MY "weird" questions?

Oh Hi Viktar ... Alive on the forums but completely silent to our phone calls and emails.

Shows who really wants to hide behind forums.

 

[mattsgame]

Not everyone's strategy is the same. You should know that we have been in this industry for over 10 years.

Much of our operations were offline where the fact that we have a long established call center well before the website. You guys are trying to get in the shoes of everyone because another website has added TONS of features and keeps adding features on a constant basis and you probably don't like it.

So have we been around since 1999? YES, was it necessarily online? none of your business. Now it is, here we are.

Your motto is "Advocate of Fair Play", to me sounds like before talking about play, be fair to your members.

I would have to disagree with your post that I have been disrespectful to anyone answering. As far as I am concerned, answering on technicalities of our operations is none of your business.

If people take that as insulting, which is seems like it does, then you should apply it to anyone here.

Your motive of "He calls the shot" shows to great extent the kind of forums you run here.

The conclusion is that we have done nothing wrong in the first place, get accused of all sorts of things and then we have to waste our time to answer your non-sense accusations ? no thanks

This is Appalling, god help the people that sign up to any of your slow/non paying casinos you list and get screwed over... but hey your all for the players just like Bryan :notworthy. Your lack of respect is mind boggling.

Now if you where seriously helping the players as you claim.. then players should not need to sign up through your site, any decent casino should be paying without a medium..sure it happens and there is people that will help, but your site is run off greed.. you will help those who deposit and play through YOUR site only.

BTW love the Aussie online casinos page

 

[chayton]

...nevermind....

 

[SlotMonster]

Much of our operations were offline where the fact that we have a long established call center well before the website. You guys are trying to get in the shoes of everyone because another website has added TONS of features and keeps adding features on a constant basis and you probably don't like it.

So have we been around since 1999? YES, was it necessarily online? none of your business. Now it is, here we are.

Here is the quote from your website:

Online since 1999, CasinoDeal has always strived to be the #1 resource for anything related to online gambling.

I even took a screenshot of it.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[The Dude]

Dear lazouche,

Please let me point out phrases that are discourteous to your host:

Not everyone's strategy is the same. You should know that we have been in this industry for over 10 years.

Much of our operations were offline where the fact that we have a long established call center well before the website. You guys are trying to get in the shoes of everyone because another website has added TONS of features and keeps adding features on a constant basis and you probably don't like it.

So have we been around since 1999? YES, was it necessarily online? none of your business. Now it is, here we are.

Your motto is "Advocate of Fair Play", to me sounds like before talking about play, be fair to your members.

I would have to disagree with your post that I have been disrespectful to anyone answering. As far as I am concerned, answering on technicalities of our operations is none of your business.

If people take that as insulting, which is seems like it does, then you should apply it to anyone here.

Your motive of "He calls the shot" shows to great extent the kind of forums you run here.

The conclusion is that we have done nothing wrong in the first place, get accused of all sorts of things and then we have to waste our time to answer your non-sense accusations ? no thanks

It's not nonsense that a spammer was busted out here last month. This was the same spam that appeared at another website as I mentioned before.

And no, I've never heard of you before. If you have seriously been around for 11 years, then you have been keeping a pretty low profile. How many conferences do you attend per year? Have you spoken at any? If so which ones? Your site states: "Through our exclusive partnerships, we protect our users on all the casinos represented on our website." Exactly how are your users protected?

Or is this none of my business

And yes, this is a great forum as you implied.

 

[lazouche]

This is Appalling, god help the people that sign up to any of your slow/non paying casinos you list and get screwed over... but hey your all for the players just like Bryan :notworthy. Your lack of respect is mind boggling.

Now if you where seriously helping the players as you claim.. then players should not need to sign up through your site, any decent casino should be paying without a medium..sure it happens and there is people that will help, but your site is run off greed.. you will help those who deposit and play through YOUR site only.

In response to "you will help those who deposit and play through YOUR site only."

And there goes your answer to this WHOLE point in this thread. We can ONLY help the ones who went through CasinoDeal since it's the only ones we have the info for and can confirm the information with casinos and therefore help the player.

Therefore, NOT asking any data from casinos. Thank you for clarifying it.

Oh and for "any of your slow/non paying casinos" as far as I am concerned, even Bryan from CasinoMeister says 32Red for example is "Casinomeister Casino of the Decade - need I say more?" ... hmmm ... something doesn't stand here.

So once again, false, false, false.

What is the game going on here? Can we be any part of the fun?

 

[Mousey]

Did I miss the post with answers to MY "weird" questions?

Viktor, the nearest to an 'answer' I saw was THIS post.

Oh Hi Viktar ... Alive on the forums but completely silent to our phone calls and emails.

Shows who really wants to hide behind forums.

What the -- ??

I can't hand out infractions, but I don't have to read any more of your snide crap.

Viktor, I'm not one to offer business advice but for the love of all that's holy watch your back if you tie in with this bunch of cowboys.

 

[The Dude]

@lazouche

Please don't take this the wrong way, but is English your native language? I'm just curious, that's all.

 

[lazouche]

Wow you are blocking IP access now?

So you ask questions, then block my IP so I have to use another computer to answer your questions?

Your forum is a joke, I am sorry to say.

By the way, English is my third language ... For all the smart ones having this question.

 

[lazouche]

Dear lazouche,

Please let me point out phrases that are discourteous to your host:



It's not nonsense that a spammer was busted out here last month. This was the same spam that appeared at another website as I mentioned before.

And no, I've never heard of you before. If you have seriously been around for 11 years, then you have been keeping a pretty low profile. How many conferences do you attend per year? Have you spoken at any? If so which ones? Your site states: "Through our exclusive partnerships, we protect our users on all the casinos represented on our website." Exactly how are your users protected?

Or is this none of my business

And yes, this is a great forum as you implied.

If Bryan can have the decency to unblock my IP's to access the forums, I could answer.

You guys are playing a cat and mouse game. That is simply dirty.

 

[The Dude]

Wow you are blocking IP access now?

So you ask questions, then block my IP so I have to use another computer to answer your questions?

Eh? Blocking what IP access? What do you mean? Please post a screen shot - I haven't done a thing.

Your forum is a joke, I am sorry to say.

Yeah, whatever.

 

[lazouche]

Eh? Blocking what IP access? What do you mean? Please post a screen shot - I haven't done a thing.


Yeah, whatever.

Oh wow really? you are going to play the innocent now. I have one screen replying and the other one showing CONNECTION TIMED OUT.

 

[Jinn]

Your forum is a joke, I am sorry to say.

On the subject of jokes, I've been entertained by the casinodeal spam articles, eg. read the final paragraph of this article linking to casinodeal, it's pretty funny :

delicioushealthycookies.com/88/making-use-of-the-most-used-tinyurl-program-for-all-your-net-jobs

 

[The Dude]

Oh wow really? you are going to play the innocent now. I have one screen replying and the other one showing CONNECTION TIMED OUT.

Yeah, playing the innocent as usual . The only IPs blocked in this forum are Chinese IPs and a number from India and Pakistan (spam issues). And Vietnam I think as well.

Post a screen shot of where I am blocking your IP.

 

[lazouche]

Yeah, playing the innocent as usual . The only IPs blocked in this forum are Chinese IPs and a number from India and Pakistan (spam issues). And Vietnam I think as well.

Post a screen shot of where I am blocking your IP.

What's the point in your forums if it all seems clear now that it's just a bunch of people ganging up to make themselves feel better.

 

[The Dude]

What's the point in your forums if it all seems clear now that it's just a bunch of people ganging up to make themselves feel better.

Well, perhaps you should have begun by addressing the questions and concerns of our members in a professional and mannerly way. No matter how much grief they gave you, you could have won them over by taking whatever on the chin and moving on. So far you've been reacting like a twelve year old, but it could be a language thing I guess

 

[mattsgame]

What's the point in your forums if it all seems clear now that it's just a bunch of people ganging up to make themselves feel better.

You know all this crap could have been avoided... you could have come here without the Attitude and huff and puff, you could have answered the questions that have been raised to you without the nark, I didn't see any question that was asked that you would have no reason to answer.. simply saying "its none of your business" is quite childish. I just don't get it...

Edit: beaten again!!

 

[lazouche]

You know all this crap could have been avoided... you could have come here without the Attitude and huff and puff, you could have answered the questions that have been raised to you without the nark, I didn't see any question that was asked that you would have no reason to answer.. simply saying "its none of your business" is quite childish. I just don't get it...

Edit: beaten again!!

The same way the original post could have been written in a respectable way and not accusing CasinoDeal.

Simple as that.

 

[The Dude]

The same way the original post could have been written in a respectable way and not accusing CasinoDeal.

Simple as that.

But those are schoolyard tactics. You debate like someone stole your ball during recess. No one is going to listen to you if you come in here slinging insults, poo-pooing any opinion that goes against yours, disrespecting the moderators, and trashing the board.

And you have the nerve to tell us that our "weird questions" are "none of your business".

 

[lazouche]

But those are schoolyard tactics. You debate like someone stole your ball during recess. No one is going to listen to you if you come in here slinging insults, poo-pooing any opinion that goes against yours, disrespecting the moderators, and trashing the board.

And you have the nerve to tell us that our "weird questions" are "none of your business".

Yes they are because they arise from false accusations made towards us. How come you guys never asked what we did before this event? hmmm. weird no?

 

[The Dude]

Yes they are because they arise from false accusations made towards us. How come you guys never asked what we did before this event? hmmm. weird no?

Please don't confuse questions with accusations. I posed several questions that you won't answer. Why should I allow your membership to continue?

 

[lazouche]

Please don't confuse questions with accusations. I posed several questions that you won't answer. Why should I allow your membership to continue?

Why not? Everyone we speak to outside of those forums seem to have a much different view than the little gang up that's going on.

They are real people we deal with every day. They know the good we bring to our community and members. Why should we feel the need to explain things to people which have an already set state of mind regarding the issue. no point

 

[maxd]

I guess you haven't read the thread as well and you wanted to add your two cents of BS ....

Not that it's going to make a lot of difference to the way this whole thing is going pear-shaped but you guess wrong, I did read the thread in it's entirety before I posted my "two cents of BS", as you so graciously put it.

FWIW you appear to have missed my point entirely, which is that your "we know best and you guys suck" attitude is not winning you or your casino any friends. But whatever, you obviously aren't here for the wisdom and insight.

The readers will make up their own minds about what kind of place remains completely invisible for 10½ years and then chooses such a genteel spokesperson as yourself to step forward and represent them on the most important public places in the online gaming community. As they say in the heady sports of bare-naked shark-baiting and speed-play Russian roulette, "Good luck with that!"

 

[chayton]

[slight derail]
From casinodeal forum....(paraphrasing)

punter: I was browsing through the online casinos that you promote and I was surprised not to see WilliamHill Casino or even EuroGrand Casino...

admin: ...However, since you already have a registered account at WilliamHill, unfortunately, you won't be able to join them through us because you are only allowed one account per person per casino....

punter: ...Thank you for this useful piece of information. However, if you guys do add WilliamHill or EuroGrand Casino to your website, I will surely find a way to register a new account through you guys. I'll probably get the Miss's to create an account under her name that I will be using....

admin: ...We love getting feedback from our players and pleasing them with the online casinos that they are the most comfortable with. After all, who better to give us the feedback then you!

Thank you very much to the both of you for collaborating in your community.

It seemed odd to me that the admin didn't say anything like, "But we don't condone fraud."

[/derail]

 

[lazouche]

[slight derail]
From casinodeal forum....(paraphrasing)



It seemed odd to me that the admin didn't say anything like, "But we don't condone fraud."

[/derail]

We do condemn fraud. If you don't paraphrase and read it in the order it should, you will clearly see that we did not do the promotion of opening two accounts. We simply told him that once he has an account, he cannot open a second one as the casinos match everything.

The member's comments for his accounts was completely out of his decision, nobody forced him to post that on there or to find a way.

You have yet to pinpoint and prove ONE single accusation you have made towards us.

Don't you think it's time to turn the page?