Casinodeal.com requesting players data from casino.

[SlotMonster]

NOTE: the original name of the thread should be "Casinodeal.com requesting players data from casino?"
Sorry for the mistake.

Sorry if I posted it in the wrong thread, but questions I would like to raise (I think) are also important for players.

Recently I was contacted by a guy who named himself as Shawn Elliott from casinodeal . com, who wanted to be our affiliate. As our Aff Program just launched and there are only few affiliates registered, I was very glad that someone else wanted to register, but was a bit confused by Shawn's statement that they are very reputable website and were in the business since 1999, because I've nerver heard about them.

I had a call with Shawn about our possible deal (can be provided as per request, my Skype recorded it automatically), and being an affiliate myself in the past, I was...like... when I heard this:

- after many words about how trusted they are, and for how long they were in the business, Shawn claimed that after we "sign a contract" we will have to provide him with data about all players affiliated by Casinodeal, including player's First, Last Name, emails and phone numbers, and if they have, or have not made a deposit. (other stuff like a "fixed upfront payment" and "be the first in payment queue" is not unusual for affiliate business, I guess). He said that he need the details is to "contact them to make sure they are satisfied".

So I did a little search in web archives, investigated a website and their forum (with only few posts in it, since 1999...hmmmm). From what I see, the domain was sold few times, and the last record I found was from September 17th, 2010.

Shawn also claimed that they are on top positions in Google, so I also did a little search:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

As you can see, there were no organic keywords till September, 2011

I also did a backlinks search, and most of them are from Google blogs:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

So, basing on my research, casinodeal is not a brand, like Casinomeister, GPWA, AGD etc, it's nothing but just trusted domain bought maybe a year ago.

But the main question is: how it's possible to request players' details (which is enough to build a database and then maybe use it or sell it to another casino). I see many casinos on their website (even few accredited ones) and it's hard to believe that any of them agreed to provide players' data, which is in clear breach with data protection rules.

Any thoughts?

 

[P.V.]

If he's asking for player data other than what he gathers from his forum registration, or website, no way!

Why would an affiliate request this from an OC other than fraud or wanting to spam whomever registers to your casino from his site. Information he can't gather.

Looks like a good call Viktar but honestly I'm a bit confused by his demands, can you elaborate more?

 

[SlotMonster]

As I said, I have a Skype call recorded, so can easily prove my words. Shaun said that after they registered though casinodeal, the will call players to tell them about all benefits they will get and ask them to provide the review of the casino they were playing at.

There were 4 "requirements" from Shaun to start the business:

- Players data (first, last name, phone, email, and if players have or have not made a deposit);
- Upfront payment - monthly fee (depends on our adv. budget, I guess);
- They should be able to contact me at any time;
- We should pay them prior all other affiliates;

I don't mind about #2-4, but #1 really confuses me...

 

[chayton]

I think you're right to be concerned. It seems totally ridiculous to me, I'm not an affiliate so I don't know much about that part of it - but as a player, if I signed up at your casino and started getting phone calls from some affiliate - whether I signed up through them or not - I'd be some cheesed off at you for giving out my info. And if suddenly other casinos started calling me at home, I'd be sincerely pissed. Just saying....

If they actually do have accredited casinos on their site, maybe you could try contacting the casino reps and see if you can find out if they had this same 'condition'? Also you might want to post this is the Webbie/Affiliate whatever section, that way the affiliates will see it and give their input. Or post there with a link to here or something.

 

[SlotMonster]

Thanks, chayton.
I will post a link to this thread on AGD and GPWA. Would be interesting to receive a reply from other casinos/aff programs.

 

[rockycatt]

i think he is trying to skip to the front of the line he got the hurray for me and screw the world attitude

 

[KasinoKing]

I would tell them to take a hike!

That request is totally unacceptable in my book, and I wouldn't entertain it for a moment if I were you.
The only time I get to find out ANY personal detail about the players who sign-up through my sites is if the player contacts me themselves.
Casinos should NEVER give this info out to any third party IMO.

KK

 

[swampwitch]

Players data (first, last name, phone, email, and if players have or have not made a deposit);

As a former affiliate, I never had access to full names (unless volunteered) and phone numbers, nor would I have thought to ask for that info from my customers. Why would this yutz think you'd have that kind of info on your players to begin with?

 

[SlotMonster]

Why would this yutz think you'd have that kind of info on your players to begin with?

Well, maybe because I'm Head of CS and Affiliate Manager, and I have an access to players personal data.

Or I misunderstood your question?

 

[Seventh777]

I would tell them to take a hike!

That request is totally unacceptable in my book, and I wouldn't entertain it for a moment if I were you.
The only time I get to find out ANY personal detail about the players who sign-up through my sites is if the player contacts me themselves.
Casinos should NEVER give this info out to any third party IMO.

KK

I have only ever signed up at one casino from your site (10Bet), deposited £50 got a 75% bonus and withdrew £2000, so if i`m ever down your neck of the woods I will take you for a beer or two .

Disclaimer: - I hold no responsibility whatsoever in divorce/divorces resulting in a night out with me.

 

[Nifty29]

I have only ever signed up at one casino from your site (10Bet), deposited £50 got a 75% bonus and withdrew £2000, so if i`m ever down your neck of the woods I will take you for a beer or two .

Disclaimer: - I hold no responsibility whatsoever in divorce/divorces resulting in a night out with me.

LOL.

Reminds me of old Chinese proverb:

"A man is only as faithful as his options"

Or even:

"Man who stick penis in cookie tin is f**king crackers"

 

[Nifty29]

Seriously though....

I would say "Sure....as long as we can send an email to each of your players containing all the same details.....you know, in case there's a problem or anything"

I'm sure he'll reconsider.

I think its admirable that you're vetting your affiliates carefully. It shows professionalism and will help protect your brand. If players knew you were giving their details to affys it would hit your reputation hard.

 

[swampwitch]

Well, maybe because I'm Head of CS and Affiliate Manager, and I have an access to players personal data.

Or I misunderstood your question?

I see. I didn't realize you were an employee of the casino itself.

In that case, are you hard up for affiliates? I ask because were I in your position I'd have hung up on the guy right off. Nothing ticked me off as an affiliate more than some greedy little unethical affiliate offering to sell me a player database...obtained sometimes by the scam this particular ass tried on you.
Good on you for taking this to all the affiliate organizations. But don't be surprised if one or two upstanding members of the profession take the stance that the guy did nothing wrong.

Good luck.

 

[chuchu59]

LOL.

Reminds me of old Chinese proverb:

"A man is only as faithful as his options"

Or even:

"Man who stick penis in cookie tin is f**king crackers"

Nifty,

It seems your Chinese is better than me. I didnt know there was such a proverb. Maybe something was lost in translation and my Chinese has never been good anyway

 

[jetset]

I think you're right to be concerned. It seems totally ridiculous to me, I'm not an affiliate so I don't know much about that part of it - but as a player, if I signed up at your casino and started getting phone calls from some affiliate - whether I signed up through them or not - I'd be some cheesed off at you for giving out my info. And if suddenly other casinos started calling me at home, I'd be sincerely pissed. Just saying....

If they actually do have accredited casinos on their site, maybe you could try contacting the casino reps and see if you can find out if they had this same 'condition'? Also you might want to post this is the Webbie/Affiliate whatever section, that way the affiliates will see it and give their input. Or post there with a link to here or something.

What Chayton said here....to which I would add that the guy's attitude suggests he's chancing his arm to see how much he can get. I'd tell him to get lost, too - who needs to do business with someone with that sort of approach?

Agree with Nifty here, as well - kudos for adopting a discerning policy on affys.

 

[The Dude]

Any thoughts?

Total scam - and totally out of line to ask for any data relating to players. Sure demographics and games being played by players can be helpful for affiliates - but any personal information is completely unnecessary.

I'm glad you saw through the charade this guy was trying to pull. Makes you wonder how many affy managers have caved to giving them what they asked for.

Kudos for bringing this to everyone's attention.

 

[The Dude]

Maybe we should ask this guy what he thinks
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

 

[Jinn]

Makes you wonder how many affy managers have caved to giving them what they asked for.

Exactly, I've seen my affiliate contact details being shared by affiliate managers countless times. All it takes is one unethical or uneducated employee...

I do have a quick off-topic question for SlotMonster, I had a look at bigcasino.co.uk and was a bit confused - at the bottom of every page it says "UK Players Only" and that links to the terms page, and the terms page says : "You guarantee that" ... "You are not located in, or a resident of the UK;" and " You are not a citizen of the UK." So the terms seem to indicate the exact opposite of the "UK Players Only" image on each page. Unless I'm just a bit slow today

 

[SlotMonster]

I do have a quick off-topic question for SlotMonster, I had a look at bigcasino.co.uk and was a bit confused - at the bottom of every page it says "UK Players Only" and that links to the terms page, and the terms page says : "You guarantee that" ... "You are not located in, or a resident of the UK;" and " You are not a citizen of the UK." So the terms seem to indicate the exact opposite of the "UK Players Only" image on each page. Unless I'm just a bit slow today

Thank you, Jinn! It will be corrected ASAP.

P.S. I posted similar threads on AGD and GPWA forums.

 

[Nifty29]

Maybe we should ask this guy what he thinks
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

Maybe you should inform him that he can only remain a member if he posts his full name, address, dob, phone number etc

Did anyone notice the occupation? Guru!! LMAO.

 

[SlotMonster]

Maybe you should inform him that he can only remain a member if he posts his full name, address, dob, phone number etc

Nice one, Nifty!

 

[lazouche]

NOTE: the original name of the thread should be "Casinodeal.com requesting players data from casino?"
Sorry for the mistake.

Sorry if I posted it in the wrong thread, but questions I would like to raise (I think) are also important for players.

Recently I was contacted by a guy who named himself as Shawn Elliott from casinodeal . com, who wanted to be our affiliate. As our Aff Program just launched and there are only few affiliates registered, I was very glad that someone else wanted to register, but was a bit confused by Shawn's statement that they are very reputable website and were in the business since 1999, because I've nerver heard about them.

I had a call with Shawn about our possible deal (can be provided as per request, my Skype recorded it automatically), and being an affiliate myself in the past, I was...like... when I heard this:

- after many words about how trusted they are, and for how long they were in the business, Shawn claimed that after we "sign a contract" we will have to provide him with data about all players affiliated by Casinodeal, including player's First, Last Name, emails and phone numbers, and if they have, or have not made a deposit. (other stuff like a "fixed upfront payment" and "be the first in payment queue" is not unusual for affiliate business, I guess). He said that he need the details is to "contact them to make sure they are satisfied".

So I did a little search in web archives, investigated a website and their forum (with only few posts in it, since 1999...hmmmm). From what I see, the domain was sold few times, and the last record I found was from September 17th, 2010.

Shawn also claimed that they are on top positions in Google, so I also did a little search:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

As you can see, there were no organic keywords till September, 2011

I also did a backlinks search, and most of them are from Google blogs:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

So, basing on my research, casinodeal is not a brand, like Casinomeister, GPWA, AGD etc, it's nothing but just trusted domain bought maybe a year ago.

But the main question is: how it's possible to request players' details (which is enough to build a database and then maybe use it or sell it to another casino). I see many casinos on their website (even few accredited ones) and it's hard to believe that any of them agreed to provide players' data, which is in clear breach with data protection rules.

Any thoughts?

Hi Viktar from BigCasino and Viaden,

Apparently, after Shawn has spoken to your team, seems to be like your communication barrier is the root cause of your complete misunderstanding of everything.

First of all, we have all the information of every single player we send to casinos. We have a rewards program and we told you that we will need to CONFIRM the deposits with you (meaning we HAVE the data) in order for you to confirm that deposit so we can give our member his points.

On another point, we have a full call center department for customer service and support on third party casinos for our members. All we asked you was to confirm current active players with us so we can both work on supporting the players and making sure they do not get any run around.

As for your "investigation", we have been in the casino industry for over 13 years now, perhaps you did not understand everything Shawn told you in your 35 minutes long conversation as we did listen back through the call center audio and it really does seem like your English was not up to par, irony that you only accept UK players.

Last point, we contacted your CEO and other colleagues and they have asked us to hold on our reply on public forums in order to check what was going on first. As we did not hear back from them and you are starting to post everywhere, we need to reply to the community.

Funny thing how every casino loves what we are doing for the player community out there except for you. We are not trying to hide behind anything or work up a huge list to sell like you pretend. We are an honest operation and as far as I can see we have the MOST point of contacts out of any AFFILIATE OR CASINO OUT THERE. We offer TOLL FREE PHONE, LIVE CHAT, EMAIL, TICKET & FORUMS player support. If we were to hide behind something, wouldn't that go against it????

Our goal and mission remains the same as mentioned on our website. We are HERE for the PLAYERS.

If you DO NOT want to be part of the program, then you can opt out. There is no reason to start posting all sorts of false pretensions if the problem is your English in the first place.

 

[The Dude]

... There is no reason to start posting all sorts of false pretensions if the problem is your English in the first place.

Totally uncool way to start - you can debate your dealings with Viktar - but don't attack him personally on his English. Viktar's English is pretty damn good for a non-Native speaker; around 45% percent of our members are non-native English speakers, so that is not a good way to gain any support here.

I'd like to know why Casinodeal spams this forum. You can start there.

 

[lazouche]

Totally uncool way to start - you can debate your dealings with Viktar - but don't attack him personally on his English. Viktar's English is pretty damn good for a non-Native speaker; around 45% percent of our members are non-native English speakers, so that is not a good way to gain any support here.

I'd like to know why Casinodeal spams this forum. You can start there.

How about turning the wheel around? Why does he start a thread completely accusing us of all sorts of unethical things?

His clarifications were one phone call away and we had many calls with Viaden.

This was unethical on his part, there is no point in trying to turn things around.

As for your comment on spamming your forums, I have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[The Dude]

How about turning the wheel around? Why does he start a thread completely accusing us of all sorts of unethical things?

His clarifications were one phone call away and we had many calls with Viaden.

This was unethical on his part, there is no point in trying to turn things around.

As for your comment on spamming your forums, I have no clue what you are talking about.

You could have easily come here and debated this professionally. Belittling someone for their English comprehension is way out of line.

As for the spammer - user Chinchin01 was banned 24 Nov 2011 for the following.

chinchin01 has just posted in the Online Casinos forum of Casinomeister's Online Casino and Poker Forum under the title of Onlin Blackjack.

This thread is located at https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/community/online-casinos/

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Most individuals who are interested venturing online casinos are lead to play online blackjack (xhttp://www.casinodeal.com/online-blackjack/*). This type of online games allows the player to have some control unto the cards that been playing.
***************

*for demonstration purposes, I killed the URL

The thread was deleted by the moderators - but that is a copy of it. It's a clear cut case of your company spamming this forum.