Mr Q asking for bank statement after withdrawing winnings

[pekka55]

Looking forward to receive an updated procedure with the correct rules applied!

Please quote any rules that say that you have to know every banking detail of every player no matter how small the deposit is?

Hint, there is no such rule.

 

[thr0b]

Please quote any rules that say that you have to know every banking detail of every player no matter how small the deposit is?

Hint, there is no such rule.

It's right here, man.

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[pekka55]

It's right here, man.

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And where exactly does it state that they have to ask for detailed banking documents?

Age and ID is clear. I still don't see any regulations that casinos have to do AML or affordability checks for every person that spends 10 or 20 bucks a week on slots.

 

[Guntis]

And where exactly does it state that they have to ask for detailed banking documents?

Age and ID is clear. I still don't see any regulations that casinos have to do AML or affordability checks for every person that spends 10 or 20 bucks a week on slots.

Yeah that UKGC page could be more specific and include clear examples. But it could be that operators have more details.

If not, then it's unclear what exactly they mean by 'know their customers inside out' It's understandable but lacks specificity which likely leads casinos to guess and create illogical or simply stupid rules.

Why gambling businesses want to know about your finances

As part of their customer interaction requirements, we challenge all gambling companies to know their customers inside out so they can provide the best possible service and ensure gambling in Great Britain is fair, safe and free of crime.

 

[thr0b]

Yeah that UKGC page could be more specific and include clear examples. But it could be that operators have more details.

If not, then it's unclear what exactly they mean by 'know their customers inside out' It's understandable but lacks specificity which likely leads casinos to guess and create illogical or simply stupid rules.

Why gambling businesses want to know about your finances

As part of their customer interaction requirements, we challenge all gambling companies to know their customers inside out so they can provide the best possible service and ensure gambling in Great Britain is fair, safe and free of crime.

Aye. This is it. The policies are laid out, but like any regulated business, the will then have further detailed advice on what they need to do. And inspectors in any industry will find fault if they can, so the business will err on the side of caution as their appetite for fines or licence revocation is zero.

None of these things they’re doing are free, they’re certainly not doing it because they want to. But paying someone 40k a year or so to undertake financial checks is certainly cheaper than the risk of regular unlimited fines, and if it stops a handful of customers returning, that’s the choice they have to make.

 

[interlog]

Aye. This is it. The policies are laid out, but like any regulated business, the will then have further detailed advice on what they need to do. And inspectors in any industry will find fault if they can, so the business will err on the side of caution as their appetite for fines or licence revocation is zero.

None of these things they’re doing are free, they’re certainly not doing it because they want to. But paying someone 40k a year or so to undertake financial checks is certainly cheaper than the risk of regular unlimited fines, and if it stops a handful of customers returning, that’s the choice they have to make.

All fine and well, but don't blame punters going elsewhere to spend their hard earned money without the intrusion the UKGC expects casinos to perform.

Besides, if I transfer money from my bank account to a UKGC casino via debit card, that money is clean as banks have more stringent AML processes than some casino based in Malta.

 

[L&L-Jan]

that money is clean as banks have more stringent AML processes than some casino based in Malta.

That's the problem, they were not, for many years and that only resulted in EU AML directive 3,4,5 and the upcoming 6. And casinos fall under the umbrella of the EU AML directives.

 

[interlog]

That's the problem, they were not, for many years and that only resulted in EU AML directive 3,4,5 and the upcoming 6. And casinos fall under the umbrella of the EU AML directives.

"were not" implies that the banks are now.

How is me showing a bank statement showing income of £1m from Trotters Independent Trading satisfying you as a casino that this money is clean and not laundered? What expertise have you got as a casino?

 

[L&L-Jan]

"were not" implies that the banks are now.

How is me showing a bank statement showing income of £1m from Trotters Independent Trading satisfying you as a casino that this money is clean and not laundered? What expertise have you got as a casino?

1) No they still are, Natwest e.g. is still under review as far as I know. If you look at Holland, all primary banks are under review.

2) Questions are asked in the event of unclear incoming or outgoing questions. Depends how you answer them.

But from what i can remember, you passed the EDD on our end without any questions asked? It went fluent no? It was years ago, so forgive me if im wrong

 

[interlog]

1) No they still are, Natwest e.g. is still under review as far as I know. If you look at Holland, all primary banks are under review.

2) Questions are asked in the event of unclear incoming or outgoing questions. Depends how you answer them.

But from what i can remember, you passed the EDD on our end without any questions asked? It went fluent no? It was years ago, so forgive me if im wrong

The mere fact that I was asked for EDD is what is wrong. My money, I should spend it as I wish without being asked where the money came from, providing I don't spend it on illicit stuff.

I don't blame the casinos as they have to go by what the busy body useless authorities stipulate.

As for Holland, just look at the incompetence of the departing Government to see the state things are going there, and that is from somebody born there!

 

[L&L-Jan]

The mere fact that I was asked for EDD is what is wrong. My money, I should spend it as I wish without being asked where the money came from, providing I don't spend it on illicit stuff.

got you mate, i have the same feelings, but as long as all our leaders in the world visit Davos 2/3x a year, it will only get worse! Time for resistance against the WEF

 

[L&L-Jan]

As for Holland, just look at the incompetence of the departing Government to see the state things are going there, and that is from somebody born there!

pff, dont get me started please, its terrible

 

[pekka55]

Yeah that UKGC page could be more specific and include clear examples. But it could be that operators have more details.

If not, then it's unclear what exactly they mean by 'know their customers inside out' It's understandable but lacks specificity which likely leads casinos to guess and create illogical or simply stupid rules.

Why gambling businesses want to know about your finances

As part of their customer interaction requirements, we challenge all gambling companies to know their customers inside out so they can provide the best possible service and ensure gambling in Great Britain is fair, safe and free of crime.

Yeah, this is so ambiguous that it's no wonder some casinos take this shit way too far.

Like imagine another industry asking you for 12 months of pay slips and banking history because you want to spend 100 bucks in their establishment. It would be ridiculous.

Sad thing is that there would be no reason for all of this if casinos in the past would've done things right. Now we the customers pay the price for the industry not getting their shit together in the past.

We went a complete 180 degrees around from casinos letting people freely deposit 200k of stolen money and not asking a single question to now everyone getting sowed and hassled. Even the low rollers that deposit 20 bucks and play at 10 cent a spin need to have their sow documents ready if they happen to win anything.

 

[jasonuk]

Remember that is the consumer-facing version, the

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is more detailed.

At this point, I don't think there is any doubt that some operators are abusing the process and using it to stall withdrawals. I have particular ire for operators that allow players to continue depositing and playing during a CDD check, because the player is anti-freerolling themselves and the vast majority of the time they don't realise it until it is too late - only getting the bad news when they refuse CDD and the site goes "whoops, guess you're not getting those winnings then".


With the new rules incoming, I would like to see that bring some clarity - for example, by default players can play £125 per month after an identity check, many players can play e.g. £200-£500 per month based on their credit check, and then the paperwork starts after that point.

By cleaning up the process on that side, it quickly exposes rogue operators abusing the process to stall withdrawals who can then be dealt with. Making the procedure less expensive for operators, and less painful for customers.

Wishful thinking I know!

 

[pekka55]

The easiest thing would be for casinos to just not let anyone deposit 5-10k a pop into their casinos. I mean if they really were worried about AML and affordability and problem gamblers. Makes no sense to let people deposit huge sums and then only if they want to withdraw start asking for sow.

Seems a bit fucked up that casinos will freely offer games where you can spin 100€ spins if they really cared about all this nonsense about responsible gaming.

Now I happen to think that grown people should be held responsible for their own actions, I'm just tired of all the hypocrisy surrounding all this. Put a low cap on deposits and how much you can bet per spin or just shut the fuck up about all this responsible gaming malarkey already.

Always look at actions instead of words. Casinos throw around all kinds of buzzwords, but don't actually really do anything about the problems.

 

[justdoit]

The easiest thing would be for casinos to just not let anyone deposit 5-10k a pop into their casinos. I mean if they really were worried about AML and affordability and problem gamblers. Makes no sense to let people deposit huge sums and then only if they want to withdraw start asking for sow.

Seems a bit fucked up that casinos will freely offer games where you can spin 100€ spins if they really cared about all this nonsense about responsible gaming.

Now I happen to think that grown people should be held responsible for their own actions, I'm just tired of all the hypocrisy surrounding all this. Put a low cap on deposits and how much you can bet per spin or just shut the fuck up about all this responsible gaming malarkey already.

Always look at actions instead of words. Casinos throw around all kinds of buzzwords, but don't actually really do anything about the problems.

they dont ask when you make deposit and lose, only when you ask for withdraw

 

[pekka55]

they dont ask when you make deposit and lose, only when you ask for withdraw

Exactly. They care about AML and affordability only when they have to pay. If the casino is winning they don't care about that stuff.

That's why I'm saying to look at actions not words. Words are cheap, actions cost real money.

 

[Guntis]

Exactly. They care about AML and affordability only when they have to pay. If the casino is winning they don't care about that stuff.

That's why I'm saying to look at actions not words. Words are cheap, actions cost real money.

From personal experience, when you're playing at UK online high street bookie sites there are no such problems. In general there everything is very straightforward. All the annoying things mentioned here usually happen at sites that operate under the MGA and UKGC licensing.

I believe many of them have either Mickeymouse manually checking paperwork or they employ low-quality 3rd party services that can't properly understand the difference between Maltese and UKGC rules, as well as the laws that apply in the EU and UK.

 

[09237653]

I play loads on mr q cos they have high rtp games but have never triggered any kind of document request, am i just lucky?

they did contact me when i first signed up asking how i am funding my play, we had a bit of a back and forth where i explained my situation and my playing habits and they have not contacted me since despite regular and sometimes heavy play (if im doing well at mr q or elsewhere)

take note casinos it doesnt always have to be about hard data, sometimes just talking to your clients will be enough as it appears to have been in my case.

 

[justdoit]

From personal experience, when you're playing at UK online high street bookie sites there are no such problems. In general there everything is very straightforward. All the annoying things mentioned here usually happen at sites that operate under the MGA and UKGC licensing.

I believe many of them have either Mickeymouse manually checking paperwork or they employ low-quality 3rd party services that can't properly understand the difference between Maltese and UKGC rules, as well as the laws that apply in the EU and UK.

most of them have like call centre deal, you could be talking to anyone in India Philippines or East Europe

 

[stakeyourheartout]

Just an update on this.

So after continuously emailing back and forth, they’ve FINALLY approved my withdrawals without me sending a bank statement.

I also finally got a “reason” and the reason is

• A joint bank account was added. This is a direct breach of our terms and conditions as all payment methods need to be solely in the players name

I’ve never once had an issue using that account, it’s where my entire income goes. If my name is on the account then I should be able to use it as I please? Never heard of that being an issue before

 

[jasonuk]

We do hear stories of operators not liking joint accounts because it causes headaches. I would hope that MrQ clarifies that section of their T&Cs because it doesn't feel like it is as clear as they intend:

7.5. You agree that all payment methods used by you in connection with your Account belong to you and are in your name, and that all money deposited is your personal money and not money that relates to another person, business or other source, or provided to you by a third party (including but not limited to money from a loan, family member, associate or any other source). If you breach this Term we will take the actions outlined in section 12.

Additionally, 7.10 and 12.4.1 mention the name registered on the account, but I don't see anything explicitly mentioning joint accounts (which would bring us back to 7.5).

Anyway, glad you got it sorted - would have been so much easier if they'd told you that in the first place!