Mr Q asking for bank statement after withdrawing winnings

[pekka55]

Looking forward to receive an updated procedure with the correct rules applied!

Please quote any rules that say that you have to know every banking detail of every player no matter how small the deposit is?

Hint, there is no such rule.

 

[thr0b]

Please quote any rules that say that you have to know every banking detail of every player no matter how small the deposit is?

Hint, there is no such rule.

It's right here, man.

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[pekka55]

It's right here, man.

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And where exactly does it state that they have to ask for detailed banking documents?

Age and ID is clear. I still don't see any regulations that casinos have to do AML or affordability checks for every person that spends 10 or 20 bucks a week on slots.

 

[Guntis]

And where exactly does it state that they have to ask for detailed banking documents?

Age and ID is clear. I still don't see any regulations that casinos have to do AML or affordability checks for every person that spends 10 or 20 bucks a week on slots.

Yeah that UKGC page could be more specific and include clear examples. But it could be that operators have more details.

If not, then it's unclear what exactly they mean by 'know their customers inside out' It's understandable but lacks specificity which likely leads casinos to guess and create illogical or simply stupid rules.

Why gambling businesses want to know about your finances

As part of their customer interaction requirements, we challenge all gambling companies to know their customers inside out so they can provide the best possible service and ensure gambling in Great Britain is fair, safe and free of crime.

 

[thr0b]

Yeah that UKGC page could be more specific and include clear examples. But it could be that operators have more details.

If not, then it's unclear what exactly they mean by 'know their customers inside out' It's understandable but lacks specificity which likely leads casinos to guess and create illogical or simply stupid rules.

Why gambling businesses want to know about your finances

As part of their customer interaction requirements, we challenge all gambling companies to know their customers inside out so they can provide the best possible service and ensure gambling in Great Britain is fair, safe and free of crime.

Aye. This is it. The policies are laid out, but like any regulated business, the will then have further detailed advice on what they need to do. And inspectors in any industry will find fault if they can, so the business will err on the side of caution as their appetite for fines or licence revocation is zero.

None of these things they’re doing are free, they’re certainly not doing it because they want to. But paying someone 40k a year or so to undertake financial checks is certainly cheaper than the risk of regular unlimited fines, and if it stops a handful of customers returning, that’s the choice they have to make.

 

[interlog]

Aye. This is it. The policies are laid out, but like any regulated business, the will then have further detailed advice on what they need to do. And inspectors in any industry will find fault if they can, so the business will err on the side of caution as their appetite for fines or licence revocation is zero.

None of these things they’re doing are free, they’re certainly not doing it because they want to. But paying someone 40k a year or so to undertake financial checks is certainly cheaper than the risk of regular unlimited fines, and if it stops a handful of customers returning, that’s the choice they have to make.

All fine and well, but don't blame punters going elsewhere to spend their hard earned money without the intrusion the UKGC expects casinos to perform.

Besides, if I transfer money from my bank account to a UKGC casino via debit card, that money is clean as banks have more stringent AML processes than some casino based in Malta.

 

[L&L-Jan]

that money is clean as banks have more stringent AML processes than some casino based in Malta.

That's the problem, they were not, for many years and that only resulted in EU AML directive 3,4,5 and the upcoming 6. And casinos fall under the umbrella of the EU AML directives.

 

[interlog]

That's the problem, they were not, for many years and that only resulted in EU AML directive 3,4,5 and the upcoming 6. And casinos fall under the umbrella of the EU AML directives.

"were not" implies that the banks are now.

How is me showing a bank statement showing income of £1m from Trotters Independent Trading satisfying you as a casino that this money is clean and not laundered? What expertise have you got as a casino?

 

[L&L-Jan]

"were not" implies that the banks are now.

How is me showing a bank statement showing income of £1m from Trotters Independent Trading satisfying you as a casino that this money is clean and not laundered? What expertise have you got as a casino?

1) No they still are, Natwest e.g. is still under review as far as I know. If you look at Holland, all primary banks are under review.

2) Questions are asked in the event of unclear incoming or outgoing questions. Depends how you answer them.

But from what i can remember, you passed the EDD on our end without any questions asked? It went fluent no? It was years ago, so forgive me if im wrong

 

[interlog]

1) No they still are, Natwest e.g. is still under review as far as I know. If you look at Holland, all primary banks are under review.

2) Questions are asked in the event of unclear incoming or outgoing questions. Depends how you answer them.

But from what i can remember, you passed the EDD on our end without any questions asked? It went fluent no? It was years ago, so forgive me if im wrong

The mere fact that I was asked for EDD is what is wrong. My money, I should spend it as I wish without being asked where the money came from, providing I don't spend it on illicit stuff.

I don't blame the casinos as they have to go by what the busy body useless authorities stipulate.

As for Holland, just look at the incompetence of the departing Government to see the state things are going there, and that is from somebody born there!

 

[L&L-Jan]

The mere fact that I was asked for EDD is what is wrong. My money, I should spend it as I wish without being asked where the money came from, providing I don't spend it on illicit stuff.

got you mate, i have the same feelings, but as long as all our leaders in the world visit Davos 2/3x a year, it will only get worse! Time for resistance against the WEF

 

[L&L-Jan]

As for Holland, just look at the incompetence of the departing Government to see the state things are going there, and that is from somebody born there!

pff, dont get me started please, its terrible

 

[pekka55]

Yeah that UKGC page could be more specific and include clear examples. But it could be that operators have more details.

If not, then it's unclear what exactly they mean by 'know their customers inside out' It's understandable but lacks specificity which likely leads casinos to guess and create illogical or simply stupid rules.

Why gambling businesses want to know about your finances

As part of their customer interaction requirements, we challenge all gambling companies to know their customers inside out so they can provide the best possible service and ensure gambling in Great Britain is fair, safe and free of crime.

Yeah, this is so ambiguous that it's no wonder some casinos take this shit way too far.

Like imagine another industry asking you for 12 months of pay slips and banking history because you want to spend 100 bucks in their establishment. It would be ridiculous.

Sad thing is that there would be no reason for all of this if casinos in the past would've done things right. Now we the customers pay the price for the industry not getting their shit together in the past.

We went a complete 180 degrees around from casinos letting people freely deposit 200k of stolen money and not asking a single question to now everyone getting sowed and hassled. Even the low rollers that deposit 20 bucks and play at 10 cent a spin need to have their sow documents ready if they happen to win anything.

 

[jasonuk]

Remember that is the consumer-facing version, the

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is more detailed.

At this point, I don't think there is any doubt that some operators are abusing the process and using it to stall withdrawals. I have particular ire for operators that allow players to continue depositing and playing during a CDD check, because the player is anti-freerolling themselves and the vast majority of the time they don't realise it until it is too late - only getting the bad news when they refuse CDD and the site goes "whoops, guess you're not getting those winnings then".


With the new rules incoming, I would like to see that bring some clarity - for example, by default players can play £125 per month after an identity check, many players can play e.g. £200-£500 per month based on their credit check, and then the paperwork starts after that point.

By cleaning up the process on that side, it quickly exposes rogue operators abusing the process to stall withdrawals who can then be dealt with. Making the procedure less expensive for operators, and less painful for customers.

Wishful thinking I know!

 

[pekka55]

The easiest thing would be for casinos to just not let anyone deposit 5-10k a pop into their casinos. I mean if they really were worried about AML and affordability and problem gamblers. Makes no sense to let people deposit huge sums and then only if they want to withdraw start asking for sow.

Seems a bit fucked up that casinos will freely offer games where you can spin 100€ spins if they really cared about all this nonsense about responsible gaming.

Now I happen to think that grown people should be held responsible for their own actions, I'm just tired of all the hypocrisy surrounding all this. Put a low cap on deposits and how much you can bet per spin or just shut the fuck up about all this responsible gaming malarkey already.

Always look at actions instead of words. Casinos throw around all kinds of buzzwords, but don't actually really do anything about the problems.

 

[justdoit]

The easiest thing would be for casinos to just not let anyone deposit 5-10k a pop into their casinos. I mean if they really were worried about AML and affordability and problem gamblers. Makes no sense to let people deposit huge sums and then only if they want to withdraw start asking for sow.

Seems a bit fucked up that casinos will freely offer games where you can spin 100€ spins if they really cared about all this nonsense about responsible gaming.

Now I happen to think that grown people should be held responsible for their own actions, I'm just tired of all the hypocrisy surrounding all this. Put a low cap on deposits and how much you can bet per spin or just shut the fuck up about all this responsible gaming malarkey already.

Always look at actions instead of words. Casinos throw around all kinds of buzzwords, but don't actually really do anything about the problems.

they dont ask when you make deposit and lose, only when you ask for withdraw

 

[pekka55]

they dont ask when you make deposit and lose, only when you ask for withdraw

Exactly. They care about AML and affordability only when they have to pay. If the casino is winning they don't care about that stuff.

That's why I'm saying to look at actions not words. Words are cheap, actions cost real money.

 

[Guntis]

Exactly. They care about AML and affordability only when they have to pay. If the casino is winning they don't care about that stuff.

That's why I'm saying to look at actions not words. Words are cheap, actions cost real money.

From personal experience, when you're playing at UK online high street bookie sites there are no such problems. In general there everything is very straightforward. All the annoying things mentioned here usually happen at sites that operate under the MGA and UKGC licensing.

I believe many of them have either Mickeymouse manually checking paperwork or they employ low-quality 3rd party services that can't properly understand the difference between Maltese and UKGC rules, as well as the laws that apply in the EU and UK.

 

[09237653]

I play loads on mr q cos they have high rtp games but have never triggered any kind of document request, am i just lucky?

they did contact me when i first signed up asking how i am funding my play, we had a bit of a back and forth where i explained my situation and my playing habits and they have not contacted me since despite regular and sometimes heavy play (if im doing well at mr q or elsewhere)

take note casinos it doesnt always have to be about hard data, sometimes just talking to your clients will be enough as it appears to have been in my case.

 

[justdoit]

From personal experience, when you're playing at UK online high street bookie sites there are no such problems. In general there everything is very straightforward. All the annoying things mentioned here usually happen at sites that operate under the MGA and UKGC licensing.

I believe many of them have either Mickeymouse manually checking paperwork or they employ low-quality 3rd party services that can't properly understand the difference between Maltese and UKGC rules, as well as the laws that apply in the EU and UK.

most of them have like call centre deal, you could be talking to anyone in India Philippines or East Europe

 

[stakeyourheartout]

Just an update on this.

So after continuously emailing back and forth, they’ve FINALLY approved my withdrawals without me sending a bank statement.

I also finally got a “reason” and the reason is

• A joint bank account was added. This is a direct breach of our terms and conditions as all payment methods need to be solely in the players name

I’ve never once had an issue using that account, it’s where my entire income goes. If my name is on the account then I should be able to use it as I please? Never heard of that being an issue before

 

[jasonuk]

We do hear stories of operators not liking joint accounts because it causes headaches. I would hope that MrQ clarifies that section of their T&Cs because it doesn't feel like it is as clear as they intend:

7.5. You agree that all payment methods used by you in connection with your Account belong to you and are in your name, and that all money deposited is your personal money and not money that relates to another person, business or other source, or provided to you by a third party (including but not limited to money from a loan, family member, associate or any other source). If you breach this Term we will take the actions outlined in section 12.

Additionally, 7.10 and 12.4.1 mention the name registered on the account, but I don't see anything explicitly mentioning joint accounts (which would bring us back to 7.5).

Anyway, glad you got it sorted - would have been so much easier if they'd told you that in the first place!

 

[Loulou234]

So I signed up to Mr Q a couple days ago after searching for casinos that offer better RTP than the several I currently play at. Deposited £30 total through instant bank transfer just to get a feel of the site and try out some slots. Ended up winning around £350 total, withdrew £300 and kept £50 to play with.

Anyway, what a surprise, just a couple hours later my account is “mysteriously” suspended. They then emailed asking me to send them a PDF of my bank account showing the deposit and withdrawals to and from Mr Q. I’ve never been asked to do this by any other site in all the years I’ve been playing and I really don’t feel comfortable sharing my bank statement. Obviously I have nothing to hide but it’s none of their business what I spend my money on and I’m not going to send such personal information to a stranger over email.

So I downloaded my statement and filtered it so that all that was there was the transactions they asked for along with my name and account details at the top.

You guessed it, not good enough. They want my entire statement even though that’s not what they originally asked for.

Anyway, I will absolutely not be sending my entire bank statement and am more than happy to just close the account, which sucks because I was highly enjoying the site and planned to continue playing there. Will I be entitled to the £50 that’s still in my account?

My guess is they’re just going to keep it which I find absolutely ridiculous. I had only played a couple hours. Just so happens I won more then I deposited so now I’m banished ✌?

Hi there. My advise is to email and ask what they need to verify as you thought the process was complete when they allowed you to gamble.
This could take a while of back and forth emails so include the documents they accepted when they first verified you and ask out of interest what would happen to your funds if you close the account.
They will ignore this question and probably try and trick you into saying something that gives them reason to exclude you themselves as they think you may have an addiction. In this case you would get your deposits back but they will confiscate your winnings. They are extremley clever with the questions and very sly.
So if they dont take the documents you sent, politely as again out of interest what would happen to your funds if you closed your account.
You can close your account and then contact them to reopen your old account as you did not self exclude. As you're not under any investigation they cant hold your winnings if you decide not to bet with them. Sneaky as fuck they will try not to say you can close and be paid and the close account button dont exist, you have to speak to an agent and thats when the process of trying to exclude you begins. Things like 'Is there a reason you are unable to provide a full bank statement'. Or 'do you think your gambling has got out of hand'. And never ever close your account if they say you can do it yourself on the site because you exclude yourself. Temporary and full exclusion are the only option or to close your account speak to an agent!!!!!!!
I worked in customer services/verification for a massive casino and im disgusted at how some sites get away with some of this shit.
An upset customer = gambling addict if you sound desperate for money (that you won).
So in short be polite and say you have attached your documents for verification and out of interest what would happen to funds if you closed your account. And repeat that untill they answer, dont close the account yourself and do not answer any random questions they reply with. This should work for you I hope. You havnt broken any rules and closing your account means you can re open just by messaging.
Regards
Loulou

 

[jasonuk]

Worth mentioning this is a three month old thread, so the original situation should have been resolved one way or another (as there are time limits).

Since I've already explained this in detail, I'll summarise what you've said:

• "ask what they need to verify" - you are unlikely to get a full answer, because their questions will be based on what you send in, there's a "drip feed" effect.
• "ask out of interest what would happen to your funds if you close the account" - they will lean on "because regulations" angle, the CDD guidance linked in post two explains the specific details.
• "You can close your account and then contact them to reopen your old account as you did not self exclude." - not true, as if you refuse to comply with CDD then they will permanently close your account as per AML regulations and UKGC guidance.
• "As you're not under any investigation they cant hold your winnings if you decide not to bet with them." - also not true, CDD guidance (provided by the UKGC) allows them to hold onto the money while the CDD process takes place (which could be 30 days or more), furthermore any new winnings after the CDD trigger may be subject to forfeiture if you refuse or otherwise cannot comply with a CDD request - which is why the first thing to do when you get a CDD request is stop playing.
• "Things like 'Is there a reason you are unable to provide a full bank statement'. " - agree here, some unscrupulous agents or operators will try and paint it as an SE case (because it's an easy way out of the CDD loop), it's a significant invasion of privacy so mention that you're not comfortable sending highly sensitive personal information (particularly when the request is egregious in the first place, or when the operator is asking you to submit via email or other unencrypted portal).

I do agree with your observation at the amount of CDD-related shenanigans going on, once again the UKGC asleep at the wheel frustratingly.

 

[dealer wins]

All this pretend "player protection" BS, and yet the max bet button on many slots is still there, and positioned right next to the spin button.

And I would bet nearly every CM slotter has spunked up a mistake max bet or 10!! I know I have a few times!