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Bitstarz Removes 3.45 Btc Balance According to Breaking Bonus Terms

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by shecansayyes, Apr 29, 2016.

    Apr 29, 2016
  1. shecansayyes

    shecansayyes Newbie member PABnononaccred2

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    turkey
    Here is the story:

    I am a big player of bitstarz. I deposit big, bet bigger. Last week i lost 2.54 btc. They credited my account with 0.25 btc loyalty/cashback bonus.

    Then i started to play. I played one slot with 0.024 btc. I hit about 2btc win. Then i lowered my bet to 0.012 btc. I get bored, then i played with 0.03 and 0.06 btc. Most of my winnings come from my first 0.024 btc bets.

    Then i finished bonus rollover. Requested a 3.45 btc withdraw. They cancelled it and they removed my entire balance. Their claim is " You broke our rules by betting over 0.025 btc ".

    I respect their rules. I did not know that rule. However while most of my winnings comes from 0.024 btc bet, they remove whole balance.

    I feel scammed. They could remove my bets over 25mbtc (both wins and loses comes from that bets) then remains my balance with comes from 0.025 below bets. Then i could go on to rollever bonus amount.

    My advise is that do not play on bitstarz. They can easily remove your balance for any reason as i lose 3.45 btc.
     
  2. Apr 29, 2016
  3. bitstars

    bitstars Online Gaming Affiliate Manager

    Occupation:
    CMO @ Bitstars
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi there,

    First of all I'm sorry we had to do this but I believe many players here on this forum are well aware of the
    max betting with bonuses and stay below the stated limit in the casino's terms and conditions. It's quite
    common practice on online casinos.

    This was also a free bonus we threw your way and gave you the loyalty bonus back to give you another
    shot at winnings, which we believed was a decent gesture in all this. We as a casino has obligations
    but as the same time you have an obligation as a player to follow the rules, and we are sorry they
    were not followed this time which resulted in this confiscation.

    Kind Regards,

    Mike
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Apr 29, 2016
  5. shecansayyes

    shecansayyes Newbie member PABnononaccred2

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    turkey
    Casino should not have the right remove whole balance while player winnings comes from 0.024 btc (which is acceptable according to casino rules)
     
  6. Apr 29, 2016
  7. bitstars

    bitstars Online Gaming Affiliate Manager

    Occupation:
    CMO @ Bitstars
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi again,

    You broke the rules with a 0.6 BTC bet, and you had over 50 bets that was over the limit I'm afraid.

    If this was a one-off thing, we'd most likely had looked the other way, but the violation was quite severe
    and we had to result in a confiscation.

    Kind Regards,

    Mike
     
  8. Apr 29, 2016
  9. shecansayyes

    shecansayyes Newbie member PABnononaccred2

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    turkey
    Do not tell lie about betting size. I did not bet 0.6 btc, i bet with 0.06 btc. And most of that bets i lost. My winnings comes from below 0.025 btc bets.
     
  10. Apr 29, 2016
  11. bitstars

    bitstars Online Gaming Affiliate Manager

    Occupation:
    CMO @ Bitstars
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi there,

    My apologies, 0.06 BTC was the wager, but still twice over the limit mate.

    Kind Regards,

    Mike
     
  12. Apr 29, 2016
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Something wrong with your maths, mate.


    Bonus was 0.25 30% of that is 0.075. 50 bets of 0.06 would not therefore be in breach of the terms.

    From where does the 0.025 limit arise, because I have spent the past 10 minutes going through the site, but can only find the 30% rule, which is reasonably clear for an experienced player who would expect such a restriction and go looking for it.

    However, if the limit is 0.025, then this is a 10% of bonus rule, and nowhere can I find this mentioned, and if anything the presence of a 30% rule would mean players would not think to carry on looking.

    If the 10% rule exists, it is certainly not "clear", else I would have found it.

    It is also rather odd that you pay larger wins by instalments, this should not be necessary with the Bitcoin virtual currency, nor should it be necessary to bar UK and US players from Bitcoin as this is "virtual money", not fiat currency, which is the main point of Bitcoin.

    Now, if the bets were 0.6 after all, then they would break the terms.

    So, who is crap at maths here?
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Apr 29, 2016
  15. shecansayyes

    shecansayyes Newbie member PABnononaccred2

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    turkey
    Thank you @vinylweatherman

    They are breaking their own terms and conditions.

    Here

    Bitstarz Removes 3.45 Btc Balance According to Breaking Bonus Terms: f7roHMc.jpg,Apr 29, 2016
     
  16. Apr 29, 2016
  17. bitstars

    bitstars Online Gaming Affiliate Manager

    Occupation:
    CMO @ Bitstars
    Location:
    Malta
    There you go.

    Bitstarz Removes 3.45 Btc Balance According to Breaking Bonus Terms: kLQLLf5.jpg,Apr 29, 2016
     
  18. Apr 29, 2016
  19. shecansayyes

    shecansayyes Newbie member PABnononaccred2

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    turkey
    So while you accept your rule stated on terms/conditions page, you have 2 different rule conflicting in both side. According to one rule as i pasted above i am legitimate. That is your fault to publish 2 conflicting terms and conditions. Favorably to law, if there are conflict between 2 terms, term should be apply which is bring benefit for customer, not against.

    TLDR: Dear casinomeister users; they have 2 different terms and conditions as we stated above. What should be done here?
     
  20. Apr 29, 2016
  21. bitstars

    bitstars Online Gaming Affiliate Manager

    Occupation:
    CMO @ Bitstars
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi mate,

    We've already put all the facts there, you broke one of the most common rules while playing with the
    bonus and unfortunately had to suffer the consequences.

    Kind Regards,

    Mike
     
  22. Apr 29, 2016
  23. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    To be honest, MOST casinos have a max bet rule AND advantage play terms. Maybe they could have lumped them together for clarity, but more appears (to me) they're covering their bases.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Apr 29, 2016
  25. shecansayyes

    shecansayyes Newbie member PABnononaccred2

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    turkey
    According to their terms and conditions, i am right and they are confiscate my winnings.

    Bitstarz Removes 3.45 Btc Balance According to Breaking Bonus Terms: f7roHMc.jpg,Apr 29, 2016

    They have 2 different and conflicting terms and conditions. Still they have not made any announcement about this 2 different terms and conditions. According to 1 that i attached here , i am fully right. However this casino continue to confiscate my winnings.
     
  26. Apr 29, 2016
  27. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    @ shecansayyes : I have to ask if you have you read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ. The FAQ is necessary reading for all those who wish to use the PAB service. The FAQ tells you the scope of our service, what you can expect from us and -- also very important -- what we expect from you. If you don't understand and/or cooperate with the PAB process then your PAB will very likely fail. So please do read the FAQ asap.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Apr 29, 2016
  29. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I don't think it makes any difference - I can't see how a PAB can be successful.

    The General "Advantage play rules" are completely separate from the bonus terms and IMO the player is clutching at straws trying to use this as an excuse for not reading and/or complying with the bonus rules.

    I don't like seeing payers lose out like this - but in this case the casino is right.

    KK
     
    4 people like this.
  30. Apr 29, 2016
  31. shecansayyes

    shecansayyes Newbie member PABnononaccred2

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    turkey
    @KasinoKing How can we see that these two terms are different? IMO general terms include specific bonus terms. Bonus terms should not be against to general terms.
     
  32. Apr 29, 2016
  33. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    PAB shit-canned since you can't be bothered to read the FAQ and abide by Max's instruction posted above.
     
    3 people like this.
  34. Apr 29, 2016
  35. homerbert

    homerbert I-Gaming Industry Representative webby

    Occupation:
    nothing :)
    Location:
    middle of Europe!
    One of the first things I got from time when I started playing - I need to read rules. It's simple, and never take more than 5 minutes.

    Can't see what casino did wrong, breach of terms = punishment. It is easy logic.
     
  36. Apr 30, 2016
  37. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Regardless of what you THINK should be right, if you take ANY bonus at ANY casino, the terms relating to THAT SPECIFIC bonus apply.
    The terms of the bonus can be "tighter" than the general terms - that's why players should ALWAYS read the bonus terms and make sure they stick to them.

    We've all made mistakes (yes, even me!) and we have to learn from them.
    I am genuinely sorry you made a mistake, but you have to accept it is your fault, and not blame the casino.

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Apr 30, 2016
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    This is specifically a bonus related rule, and the other one the rep quoted I couldn't find when looking for the terms. This means it fails to meet the criteria of "clarity" for players. If the 10% rule is always the one that applies, then the 30% rule is completely superfluous, and shouldn't even be on the site at all, as the 10% rule is the one that matters. Having a 30% rule available to be found, and easier to find than the 10% one, only serves to mislead players into believing the max bet rule is 30%, which is in line with "industry standards".

    Under UK consumer law (based on an EU directive), where two different terms are in conflict, the one that is deemed to apply is the one most advantageous to the consumer, not the company. Shame the OP isn't a UK player and can benefit from this, however the consumer laws in their own country may contain a similar provision. It may also be worth checking whether the consumer laws in their licencing jurisdiction also contain such a provision.

    I recall a while ago that casino rewards had something like this, conflicting sets of terms on different parts of the website, and the player made a formal complaint. They were licenced by Kahnawake, who told CR that they had to pay half as they had contributed to the problem by not having clear and easy to navigate terms.

    The PAB is "canned" because the OP chose to continue pursuit of the complaint on the forum, rather than because it has "no chance of success".


    To be fair to players, Bitstarz should ensure that all the terms throughout the site are consistent, and if the max bet rule is 10%, then clearly "advantage play" begins when bets are over 10%, rather than 30%, of the bonus. If anything, it could be deemed "advantage play" where a player reads the terms, and bets 9.99% of the bonus nearly all the time in order to stay just within the set limit, rather than where they bet at a variety of levels and on a number of different games.
     

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