Please help! My bitstarz money was forfeited when cashing out!

... I joined as an American player and never tried to cover up my nationality at all ...
I respectfully suggest that time may have altered your perception of the case. The facts were pretty clear back April '21 when we processed your PAB and they didn't support your "never tried to cover up my nationality" argument. Even less so now that your telling of it has evolved somewhat.

If you're going to attempt to have your case re-tried in public then I'm afraid I'll have no choice but to present the necessary details that supported the decision we made then, namely rejecting your complaint against the casino, and correct some of the errors of omission in your current telling.

The bottom line is that players are responsible now as they always have been for reading and complying with the Terms. Ignorance is no defence nor is the "you should have protected me from breaking the Terms" argument. It is not the casino's responsibility to police players every step along the way, at least not outside the jurisdiction of the UKGC. We all know that there are key moments when information will be asked for and evaluated. If that process reveals Terms violations -- for whatever reason -- then that will be when decisions will have to be made.

- Max
 
Last edited:
Bitstarz is an award winning casino at Casinomeister
This is not just a random good idea that you guys have never heard of before. A lot of other casinos don't let you make over limit bets. So I'm sure there's a way that you can easily work this into the programming of the of the casino but you don't want to do that because obviously you guys do benefit from voiding people's winnings . If this was an honest straight up Casino you wouldn't have these opportunities to easily LOSE EVERYTHING built into the casino itself. It would be a lot more honest of you to just acknowledge this fact vs. continually try to constantly evade any responsibility here.
So it’s the casino responsibility for everything, no need to every read the terms? First thing I do if I took a bonus was always read the terms , two minutes or less , and I then took responsibility for my play.
 
I gotta say I never get it when players say "Yeah, of course I didn't read the Terms. Too long / complicated / boring / wrong language / difficult to read / not enough pictures." FFS, you're putting your money in someone else's hands and are hoping that they'll give it back to you with extras. Would you do that in normal life without asking what the catch was? Some dude knocks on your car window and says "Hey can I borrow your wallet? I'll give it back, I promise." "Oh sure, here you go, enjoy!"

/rant
 
Last edited:
Maybe make it so you have to input a bonus code/manually click an "apply bonus" button rather than having it automatically apply would reduce incidents like this.

For the OP, sorry man at the end of the day it's on you to check the terms and conditions. They at least gave you back your deposit so just look at it as a free session I guess.
 
The bottom line is that players are responsible now as they always have been for reading and complying with the Terms. Ignorance is no defence nor is the "you should have protected me from breaking the Terms" argument. It is not the casino's responsibility to police players every step along the way, at least not outside the jurisdiction of the UKGC. We all know that there are key moments when information will be asked for and evaluated. If that process reveals Terms violations -- for whatever reason -- then that will be when decisions will have to be made.

- Max

Whilst I agree with most of what you said, in the case of this particular player that was from the US but was not allowed to play at the casino, surely at the point that he uploaded his US identification the account should have been terminated immediately and any funds deposited since the upload refunded? Was the casino ever going to pay out any winnings to this US player?
 
Used to be that by and large, when it came to Welcome Bonuses, T & Cs didn't differ that vastly from casino to casino, as most points were usually succinctly conveyed in about five or six lines, and with Reload Bonuses, usually even less.

Wasn't really until game restrictions kicked in via the gateway that was DOA and its ilk that special adherence had to be paid to the finer print, and punters taught themselves to look out for pitfalls, all in the name of balance preservation.

Yet logic dictates that if one's starting funds have just swelled by 50% without even having pressed 'Spin' in anger that playing with that artificial balance would spell trouble, and in doing so would instantly put one at the mercy of the Terms that were likely skimmed over - so in essence, a bad idea....

Far easier then to immediately contact whatever form of Customer Service they have to hand, and have that restriction removed on the spot, to save a world of hurt. Apportioning the blame on the casino past the fact, smacks of the age-old story of wanting a free ride, no matter how many check boxes were or weren't placed in the player's path. That's just common sense surely?

For all their faults, casinos shouldn't have to be in the business of hand-holding the customer's every action, whether that be registering from a barred location or accepting reloads on a whim. The responsibility lies with both parties?
 
Hi there,

I believe your case was already covered here at CasinoMeister via the PAB procedure. We already presented all the information to @maxd if I'm not mistaken, and it was to my knowledge dismissed.

So on the topic of disputes (as you mentioned), I do believe a fair procedure is in order where we both present our side of the story, which was done in this case, right here on CM.

Olle


Fair procedures don't ignore evidence to the contrary. You guys chose to ignore blatant facts that back my argument. You also qualified evidence that without the technical expertise to do so, ie. : Claimed I was masking my IP. Still the fact remains, and the point of my entire three posts here is that your Casino could easily implement safeguards to where people don't make over limit bets and or sign up from unrecognized countries, yet you still sit here and try to play dumb like you're looking into this novel concept and you've never heard of this before. All of this posturing is just that: posturing. I bet you won't give us the stats, or disclose the number of accounts and the amounts of money that you've not paid out due to overlimit betting. If this was a real debate this fact would be on the table right now but of course you guys will never disclose those facts.
I bet you guys have a millions of dollars in forfeited money because of over limit betting . Which actually comes down to millions dollars your Casino just saved itself.
From a management perspective that policy is a hell of a lot more lucrative than one which safeguards over limit betting for the player. Period. There's nothing you can say to the argue that either.
Here's a suggestion put all that forfeited money your Casino has collected into a slots tournament and let the players here have a chance to win it. I can hear management laughing at that one right now.
 
Used to be that by and large, when it came to Welcome Bonuses, T & Cs didn't differ that vastly from casino to casino, as most points were usually succinctly conveyed in about five or six lines, and with Reload Bonuses, usually even less.

Wasn't really until game restrictions kicked in via the gateway that was DOA and its ilk that special adherence had to be paid to the finer print, and punters taught themselves to look out for pitfalls, all in the name of balance preservation.

Yet logic dictates that if one's starting funds have just swelled by 50% without even having pressed 'Spin' in anger that playing with that artificial balance would spell trouble, and in doing so would instantly put one at the mercy of the Terms that were likely skimmed over - so in essence, a bad idea....

Far easier then to immediately contact whatever form of Customer Service they have to hand, and have that restriction removed on the spot, to save a world of hurt. Apportioning the blame on the casino past the fact, smacks of the age-old story of wanting a free ride, no matter how many check boxes were or weren't placed in the player's path. That's just common sense surely?

For all their faults, casinos shouldn't have to be in the business of hand-holding the customer's every action, whether that be registering from a barred location or accepting reloads on a whim. The responsibility lies with both parties?
It's not handholding it's actually setting up a level playing Field. A programmer can easily place the safeguards within the game to where the player however lackadaisical they become in noticing their balance can never bet over the limit it's as simple as five lines of code . This has nothing to do with anyone holding hands except for maybe you and the Casino. Haha. Any player that's arguing against putting the safeguards in place really needs to question whose side there on right now. Put the safeguards in place it's as simple as that.
 
It's not handholding it's actually setting up a level playing Field. A programmer can easily place the safeguards within the game to where the player however lackadaisical they become in noticing their balance can never bet over the limit it's as simple as five lines of code . This has nothing to do with anyone holding hands except for maybe you and the Casino. Haha. Any player that's arguing against putting the safeguards in place really needs to question whose side there on right now. Put the safeguards in place it's as simple as that.
No disrespect to you intended Sir Goatwack, I was just kidding around about the handholding !!
 
I respectfully suggest that time may have altered your perception of the case. The facts were pretty clear back April '21 when we processed your PAB and they didn't support your "never tried to cover up my nationality" argument. Even less so now that your telling of it has evolved somewhat.

If you're going to attempt to have your case re-tried in public then I'm afraid I'll have no choice but to present the necessary details that supported the decision we made then, namely rejecting your complaint against the casino, and correct some of the errors of omission in your current telling.

The bottom line is that players are responsible now as they always have been for reading and complying with the Terms. Ignorance is no defence nor is the "you should have protected me from breaking the Terms" argument. It is not the casino's responsibility to police players every step along the way, at least not outside the jurisdiction of the UKGC. We all know that there are key moments when information will be asked for and evaluated. If that process reveals Terms violations -- for whatever reason -- then that will be when decisions will have to be made.

- Max
Actually this is not a retrial because nothing will be done about it, so don't get your feathers ruffled Max. I was never asking for a retrial. You sure are quick to jump on the casino side here. You should be backing the main point in my entire argument here: safeguards to prevent this sort of thing happening should be in place via programming within the casinos code. That's my main point here. It's one Id think you'd back me up on as fervently as you are trying to discredit me here.
 
Whilst I agree with most of what you said, in the case of this particular player that was from the US but was not allowed to play at the casino, surely at the point that he uploaded his US identification the account should have been terminated immediately and any funds deposited since the upload refunded? Was the casino ever going to pay out any winnings to this US player?
Thank you for your support and for being the 1st person to see that glaring point and actually comment on it. I was told they don't ever look at the documents we upload until we try to cash out and they were oblivious to the fact that I put my California ID on there.
 
I don't take bonuses at all, anywhere, ever. Never have and never will. For this kind of reason.
The sheer list of terms and conditions alone for any bonus puts me off immediately, so I just play with my own money and withdraw when I want.

Feel for you @helpneeded08 but this one is on you for not reading the terms and conditions. You need to be more careful 😬
This is truly good advice , but it's so hard to play with tiny Bank rolls!!! And getting used to that is kind of hard to do! But I agree fully this is the best advice really for everybody here.
 
Actually this is not a retrial because nothing will be done about it, so don't get your feathers ruffled Max. I was never asking for a retrial. You sure are quick to jump on the casino side here. You should be backing the main point in my entire argument here: safeguards to prevent this sort of thing happening should be in place via programming within the casinos code. That's my main point here. It's one Id think you'd back me up on as fervently as you are trying to discredit me here.
Well, yes and no. TBH when I was in my early days of doing the Complaints gig here at Casinomeister -- 2008ish -- I was as thoroughly convinced as many players are that casinos obviously can and should implement exactly the kind of safe-guards that you're referring to here, namely software-enforced Max Bet limits and region blocks.

As it happens I took this argument to more than one operator over those early years and slowly became convinced otherwise, at least partially. Now your average reader is going to say "well yeah, of course, you're in cahoots with them" but it's not nearly as simple as that. The fact is that I get paid a flat contract fee for what I do. There are no bonuses and no significant gifts from anyone at any time. In other words I don't have a dog in the race, so to speak, I just do what I do more or less in spite of whatever else is going on with anyone's cash flow, including Casinomeister. It's been that way for 15 years.

So why was I "convinced otherwise"? The short answer is that (historically at least) geo-blocking players created more problems for players and casinos than it solved. Most players travel, many extensively, and they get royally pissed off if they find they can't play while on the road. So that was a pretty decent argument back in the day for not automatically geo-blocking. Of course we're well into the 21st Century now and that discussion could probably use a re-visit. For instance I've heard the idea floated of players having to deliberately turn off auto-geo-blocking which sounds like a promising idea but I admit it's been a while since I've had any serious discussions on the topic.

As to software-enforced Max Bet limits things get a little fuzzier. 10 years ago there was a passingly convincing "it's too complex" argument that one often heard and coming from a software background myself I could at least empathize a little for the issues involved there. But obviously we're in a different age now and I suspect the complexity argument is on rather shakier grounds than it once was, especially since some software providers have already done it, or so I hear. I don't play so I can't pretend to be 100% up-to-date on player-side issues.

And finally to the "discredit me" problem. IMHO you discredited yourself when you failed to mention above that you were consistently VPNing when you were accessing the casino, your IPs were bouncing around (IIRC) between France, Germany, the UK and yes, all over the US. I believe now as I did then that any player who uses a VPN is setting themselves up for the problems that will sooner or later surface: they and they alone are the creator of those problems. So when you said "I did nothing to hide my nationality" I'm sure you can see where there is ample cause to take objection to the way you were now presenting your case.

All of that is pretty much secondary to the problems we've seen here in this thread. IMO if the casino's Terms say "these countries are restricted" then the player needs to act accordingly. Similarly if the Terms say "this is the Max Bet" limit then ditto, it's on the player to act accordingly. Is this ideal and the way it should be? In these specific instances probably not but until the industry evolves a little and provides saner versions of those rules then the Terms in place are the Terms that apply and it's the player's responsibility to comply.

- Max
 
Last edited:
i remember when i first started playing online about 7 years ago i had sorta same situation,i was new and i didnt really read the small terms and conditions,i took a 100% deposit match i think i put £50 in and got up to about £500 after wagering etc,my withdrawl was pending for 3 to 4 days then i got an email saying i had broke terms etc because i played several spins on DOA,yes my fault i tried to contest it but to no avail,i learned my lesson and moved on yes got my £50 deposit back,so it always pays to read all terms and conditions when playing with a bonus
 
So I have played quite a bit of slots on @BitStarz and just today I went to cash out some of my winnings. (I like to cash out and then redeposit more comfortable amounts). When I did so, I received an email saying that my funds were lost because I bet over the max bet permitted on a bonus which I had no idea was a thing. I had never selected any bonus or anything, so I didn’t think there would be any restrictions, but they told me that it auto placed a deposit bonus to my account. It’s extremely aggravating because I even had a buddy ask me if I did a deposit bonus and I told him that I did not.
Has anyone had this issue and been able resolve it? I saw a post from awhile back that a rep was able to help him and place his funds available.

Thank you all for the help! Fingers crossed! I would hate to have to quit playing on this site due to this.

See Related Threads:
Geeeeze tell me about it I've had the same issue they confinscated 120.00 dollars I was cashing out all because supposedly in overbet however I only ever bet the min! I told them I wanted to play it safe because its hard to understand cryptocurrency, Im new to it however that's why my bet was absolutely the min offered and still somehow I over bet I was gonna report em t I gambling commission!
 
Best way to end all fund seizures and bonus bullshit is to ban bonuses outright. But then i guess the casinos would dial down the RTP to assimilate the ECBR...Expected Casino Bonus Retention. In other words, 80% RTP would be the norm.
 
Hi there,

I believe your case was already covered here at CasinoMeister via the PAB procedure. We already presented all the information to @maxd if I'm not mistaken, and it was to my knowledge dismissed.

So on the topic of disputes (as you mentioned), I do believe a fair procedure is in order where we both present our side of the story, which was done in this case, right here on CM.

Olle
Olle can you pls add DOA2?
 
Bitstarz is an award winning casino at Casinomeister

Users who are viewing this thread

Meister Ratings

Back
Top