Videoslots Cash Back Offer Overrated?

Regarding comps, i actually have gotten the most bonus offers,comps and cashback offers on sites where i have won BIG. They prolly want to entice me to play it all back.

This is why one should never feel ashamed when asking for a comp.

When I lose a lot without having much entertainment, I feel it's perfectly acceptable to request a comp and I don't agree with those who say it makes you less of a person. It's natural behaviour and there are none more guity of this than the casinos when they lose.

Many times after a big win, I find the casino ups their contact with me and they're practically begging me to return.
"A bonus just for you!!"
"Look what you're missing out on!"
"Have you played our new games?"

These are all aimed at trying to entice you back so they can being to recoup their losses. I think it's the same behaviour that's shown by many players when they lose, only now it's reversed.
 
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Main topic:

All proper "new" ideas about bonuses/cashback offers in the industry are welcome. Huge welcome bonuses have given the industry bad reputation and as a result we have two complaint threads here at CM, one for bonus issues and one for bonus clean play.

Cashback offers are seen as promotional offers in the industry and those who get bonus banned are most often therefore not qualified for cashback deals either. Promotional offers as seen as cash back deals are probably much harder for players/casinos to abuse. That's good. :thumbsup:

I am not a regular player at Videoslots but I can find their cashback offer quite fun. :) Fun as those Slotsmeister tourneys we have here. It's not the best cashback offer if you want to calculate and compare different casinos to minimize the House Edge, it's more for entertainment. The "standard" cashback system counting comp points is quite boring these days.

I have personally never, AFAIK, asked for a comp. Probably stupidity from my side, or maybe I am to embarrassed to ask for it. I have never joined a casino for it's comp point system either. For the high roller, the one who knows that he deposits 1000$ or more/week, cashback deals do make huge difference. I am the type of player who can take a "welcome back" offer at a MG or NetEnt and use the 200% bonus on a high variance machine playing less than full lines or a progressive at 0.40-0.50 a spin. I already know that my deposit is toast but I have the chance. :D

High rollers should stick to regular systems and try to be VIP!

To the not so fun topic:

I understood the opening post perfectly. That said, this quote made me wonder:

Fast forward to present time, and it would seem that now VS has passed the BOF, Lucas is more reluctant to offer any comps, and prefers to direct players attention to the fact that there is cash back waiting in the wings. Of course Lucas and VS are well within their rights to do this, as comps are a goodwill gesture and not a necessity. Once I realized VS was no longer giving out comps, I decided to close my account, and stick with casinos that do, as I didn't feel I was getting much value from the cash back offer compared to the deposits I was making.

This, Azzurri, makes me believe that you think that during BBF a casino is more generous to CM players with comps. You might be right, I have no idea. But it also derails your own topic and I can understand that other members can think that you have a different agenda.

Advice: You can critizise other members without namecalling and such things. There are members who can write almost the same things but with twist of words they are following posting rules. It's almost an art. ;)
 
Main topic:

All proper "new" ideas about bonuses/cashback offers in the industry are welcome. Huge welcome bonuses have given the industry bad reputation and as a result we have two complaint threads here at CM, one for bonus issues and one for bonus clean play.

Cashback offers are seen as promotional offers in the industry and those who get bonus banned are most often therefore not qualified for cashback deals either. Promotional offers as seen as cash back deals are probably much harder for players/casinos to abuse. That's good. :thumbsup:

I am not a regular player at Videoslots but I can find their cashback offer quite fun. :) Fun as those Slotsmeister tourneys we have here. It's not the best cashback offer if you want to calculate and compare different casinos to minimize the House Edge, it's more for entertainment. The "standard" cashback system counting comp points is quite boring these days.

I have personally never, AFAIK, asked for a comp. Probably stupidity from my side, or maybe I am to embarrassed to ask for it. I have never joined a casino for it's comp point system either. For the high roller, the one who knows that he deposits 1000$ or more/week, cashback deals do make huge difference. I am the type of player who can take a "welcome back" offer at a MG or NetEnt and use the 200% bonus on a high variance machine playing less than full lines or a progressive at 0.40-0.50 a spin. I already know that my deposit is toast but I have the chance. :D

High rollers should stick to regular systems and try to be VIP!

To the not so fun topic:

I understood the opening post perfectly. That said, this quote made me wonder:



This, Azzurri, makes me believe that you think that during BBF a casino is more generous to CM players with comps. You might be right, I have no idea. But it also derails your own topic and I can understand that other members can think that you have a different agenda.

Advice: You can critizise other members without namecalling and such things. There are members who can write almost the same things but with twist of words they are following posting rules. It's almost an art. ;)

Take that all into account I think Originally Posted by Azzurri about passing the bof, I can somewhat agree, I have seen 100's of post about casino dont really care about players but whet they deposit, Take nothing away from the reps on here that do a great job, Im not pointing the finger at no casino, Reps are quick enought to jump on the wagon here but what about the people that have had trouble & do not no about these kind of sites? I mean I myself have had long debates from live help, Half of them do not no there head from there arss, Only when mention on here its sorted,
All bonus is a good, But casinos have to do this to keep custom, They do not have to but they do and alot of time you do not get it, Just a load of hassle from help saying, MISTAKE, I think only mistake is the 95% of the live help people was employed :)
 
I see Tirilej and Gagamel's reponses as very relavent to this thread Azzuri. What I think is that you don't necessarily like other members disagreeing with you're opinion which of course you are entitled to have just don't expect everyone else to always agree. The rest of the members on this thread are also entitled to their opinions and the general consensus is that most disagree with you. I don't find Tirilej or Gagamel's comments argumentative I think they are just merely responding to a thread that you decided to start about Video Slots.

I originally somewhat felt that the comps at VS were lacking, that was before I saw the slght. Now IMO VS is more than generous with their comps - Weekly races and cash-back. I don't think a player could ask for more but that's just my opinion.

However since you won't be posting anymore, I don't expect a response, so I wish you luck with you're future endeavors :)

Here's a flash back from the past https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/videoslots-newly-accredited.61870/.
 
Thanks for posting that link mark it was quite informative. I kept out of the argument in here as no point arguing just because you disagree with anothers opinions but the whole thread was really annoying as whether you agree with someone or not some of the comments made towards gagamel were really very offensive
 
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Thanks for posting that link mark it was quite informative. I kept out of the argument in here as no point arguing just because you disagree with anothers opinions but the whole thread was really annoying as whether you agree with someone or not some of the comments made towards gagamel were really very offensive

I know, I agree. You're welcome :) I think it's just wrong to berate someone over a difference in opinion. I'm all for healthy debate, I mean that's what generally happens on forums however Azzuri's comments were not only unproductive but just plain offensive, and that is definitely not healthy.

Anyway that's just my opinion take it for what its worth.
 
Funny how the brave come out and comment after I say I won't post any further isn't it Mark?

Allow me to make an exception for you as you seemed as confused as your friend gagamel.

The difference between you and I is you were actually complaining about not receiving a comp, and you were also proven to be a bonus abuser by your own admissions. You smugly wish to remind me of a past thread, after I already declared in my op that I was originally a fan of the system before comparing it with more traditional free chip comps. Hence my op was not a complaint, but a debate based on my history and findings. I applaud you on attempting to jump on a band wagon, but you really should think about your approach a little better next time.

In regards to your false claims regarding difference of opinion. One does not start a debate and ask for others opinions for the sole purpose of having others agree with me. If someone likes VS's cash back offer, I have no problem with that, and I invited others to do state so. Gagamel's first post was not a difference of opinion, as you so nicely put it. It was a clear declaration that he had enough of whining losers like myself always complaining, and I should man up. We can agree on one thing, and that's I do not agree with that insult, especially as my op does not mention anywhere that I was complaining about not receiving a comp. This is in stark contrast to your comments in the thread you so generously provided.

All in all Mark, you obviously didn't understand the thread like your friend, but at least he had the courage to say his piece whilst I was active, and did not wait until I said I won't post further.


Thanks for your off topic post Mark, but maybe just try a little harder next time you wish to attempt to discredit me.

You may have heard a saying about people who live in glass houses. If not, perhaps next time you are bonus hunting at the various rival casinos you seldom visit these days, you can look that saying up.

Again, to all other members who aren't commenting to purely, and quite poorly, try to discredit me any further, please feel free to continue the debate appropriately like the majority have, and I again apologise for the foul language I used and any offence caused. I felt I was continually being attacked by some members, who obviously didn't intend on contributing to the debate.

Mark, if you live in south Australia and would like to meet face to face for a coffee and chat, send me a pm and I'll be shouting.

I won't be posting any further as said, unless I feel the need to defend my honor against any other William Wallace's that decide to come out of the woodwork. So if you think you can now have a cheap shot like Mark did, please appreciate my right of reply which you will get. If you'd rather just leave me alone, that is also a preferred option.;)
 
I personally love the slots race and 25% cash back offer - they both compliment each other well and it gives you a reason to keep playing.

With a deposit bonus; once the WR are completed you feel like there is no reason to continue and may as well withdraw. With VS system, every spin matters as each individual spin contributes to a future bonus. I just find playing with this system makes the same games feel more exciting here than other casinos.

The problem is though, the moment my luck changes for the worse, I'll end up hating this System and prefer the classic 100% match.
 
Funny how the brave come out and comment after I say I won't post any further isn't it Mark?

Allow me to make an exception for you as you seemed as confused as your friend gagamel.

The difference between you and I is you were actually complaining about not receiving a comp, and you were also proven to be a bonus abuser by your own admissions. You smugly wish to remind me of a past thread, after I already declared in my op that I was originally a fan of the system before comparing it with more traditional free chip comps. Hence my op was not a complaint, but a debate based on my history and findings. I applaud you on attempting to jump on a band wagon, but you really should think about your approach a little better next time.

In regards to your false claims regarding difference of opinion. One does not start a debate and ask for others opinions for the sole purpose of having others agree with me. If someone likes VS's cash back offer, I have no problem with that, and I invited others to do state so. Gagamel's first post was not a difference of opinion, as you so nicely put it. It was a clear declaration that he had enough of whining losers like myself always complaining, and I should man up. We can agree on one thing, and that's I do not agree with that insult, especially as my op does not mention anywhere that I was complaining about not receiving a comp. This is in stark contrast to your comments in the thread you so generously provided.

All in all Mark, you obviously didn't understand the thread like your friend, but at least he had the courage to say his piece whilst I was active, and did not wait until I said I won't post further.


Thanks for your off topic post Mark, but maybe just try a little harder next time you wish to attempt to discredit me.

You may have heard a saying about people who live in glass houses. If not, perhaps next time you are bonus hunting at the various rival casinos you seldom visit these days, you can look that saying up.

Again, to all other members who aren't commenting to purely, and quite poorly, try to discredit me any further, please feel free to continue the debate appropriately like the majority have, and I again apologise for the foul language I used and any offence caused. I felt I was continually being attacked by some members, who obviously didn't intend on contributing to the debate.

Mark, if you live in south Australia and would like to meet face to face for a coffee and chat, send me a pm and I'll be shouting.

I won't be posting any further as said, unless I feel the need to defend my honor against any other William Wallace's that decide to come out of the woodwork. So if you think you can now have a cheap shot like Mark did, please appreciate my right of reply which you will get. If you'd rather just leave me alone, that is also a preferred option.;)

Oh no, I just stumbled accross this thread in passing. I figured you might make an "exception" for me ;) If that's how you wish to read my comment that's you're perogative. I can see you wrote a short essay. I'm going to make this short and sweet as I really can't be bothered since you seem to take anything and everything out of context consistently trying to argue about everything. Reported and about the coffee name the time and place :D
 
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It would seem a common denominator is people commenting after not being bothered reading long posts.

And what have I taken out of context Mark? Was your sole purpose in commenting on this thread to join the debate of comps vs. Cash back compensation systems, or to join the campaign against me? Judging by what you wrote I'd say the latter is true. I don't put things out of context, because unlike some, I carefully read posts.

And what have I been reported for Mark? Responding to your underhanded comments that you didn't think I'd respond to.

It would seem there are many double standards here. Some of you think you can post any hurtful comments, yet when the directed person responds in the same fashion, you are quick to take offence back and report it.

Double standards go hand in hand with living in a glass house mark. If you can't handle a similar response to what you have dished out, then say nothing at all.

I'm starting to think this is an organised attempt by a few to get me banned by the powers that be, as I have done nothing but respond to offensive posts directed at me. I didn't start one argument, yet the instigators report what they don't like in return.

Incredible.
 
Azurri I haven't reported you and I can see your point about people jumping on a post and misunderstanding the point you make. But the way you responded to tirilej was way over the top and the stuff you called Gagamel was bang out of order. Noone has to like each other and its usual to find members that think other members dislike them and have a problem with them but that's no excuse for the offensive language aimed at Gagamel. And to be fair its obvious you and mark don't see eye to ye so if I was arguing with someone ad they asked me to meet them somewhere for a coffee in my opinion that person wouldn't really be wanting to meet to be best of friends so id also take that as a kind of threat
 
Azurri I haven't reported you and I can see your point about people jumping on a post and misunderstanding the point you make. But the way you responded to tirilej was way over the top and the stuff you called Gagamel was bang out of order. Noone has to like each other and its usual to find members that think other members dislike them and have a problem with them but that's no excuse for the offensive language aimed at Gagamel. And to be fair its obvious you and mark don't see eye to ye so if I was arguing with someone ad they asked me to meet them somewhere for a coffee in my opinion that person wouldn't really be wanting to meet to be best of friends so id also take that as a kind of threat

Paul I respect your opinion, and agree my language aimed at gagamel was out of order, yet how many times would you like me to apologise?

Your comments honestly make me wonder how many people are actually reading the posts they're commenting on. Regarding tirileg, please reread the thread. My first post to her was extremely civil and polite. I also stated that I didn't mind her notifying Lucas. I took offense to her second post as she accused me of complaining about losing and not getting a comp, and also implied I was a blackmailer. This is after I made it very clear that my op was not a complaint, but a detailed history of my experience that led to me asking the question, is VS's cash back offer really as good as a traditional comp system. If you were me, would you find those comments offensive? It was clear from her first reaction that she assumed my post was derogatory towards VS and Lucas, yet I was happy to ignore that until she resorted to implying I was a complaining blackmailer.

Gagamel's comments were clearly calling me a whining loser who needs to man up. How is this at all constructive or relevant to my op. It's not. It was a clear attack that he continued, yet I'm not allowed to take offense, or have a right of reply? Again, put yourself in my shoes, would you find gagamels comments offensive?

Like I said, it would seem there are double standards at play here. How is it many other members contributed to the debate for and against VS, and there were no problems? Because they were civilized, constructive comments that were on topic and devoid of any personal put downs.

Regarding Mark, how is asking to meet for a face to face chat and coffee a threat? Now your just fishing.
 
Regarding Mark, how is asking to meet for a face to face chat and coffee a threat? Now your just fishing.

I think it's pretty obvious but apparently there are quite a few things that you fail to understand. Why ask to meet for a face to face chat and coffee then? Right now during you're short essay or should I say response/retaliation? Stop treating CM members like air heads Azzurri.
 
I think it's pretty obvious but apparently there are quite a few things that you fail to understand. Why ask to meet for a face to face chat and coffee then? Right now during you're short essay or should I say response/retaliation? Stop treating CM members like air heads Azzurri.

You really are a piece of work Mark.

I offered to buy you a coffee and have a face to face chat with you as you clearly have an issue with me, otherwise why else would you have a go at me on this thread whilst clearly ignoring the op's original question and debate? I thought a face to face chat over coffee like civilized men may be a better option to clear the air then a keyboard warrior, school yard back and forth such as the one you have instigated. Obviously your reaction and option to decline the offer means I understood your original intent perfectly. Another derailing poster with the sole intention of causing personal harm.

And you have absolutely no right to generalize and tell me to stop treating CM members like airheads. Do not confuse my treatment of you with how I treat others, as you are not in a position to do so.

My offer for coffee still stands.
 
[derail]

I have now added two tags to this thread, cashback and videoslots. Can Azzurri and mrmark21 add coffee, airheads and friendship? :D

[/derail]
 
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Personally I play at a casino because I like it and bonuses are not everything like for instance I used Ladbrokes for over 10 years when they were microgaming even tho I knew I could get better offers elsewhere but fact I liked them meant I stayed loyal. I know a lot of players always ask for comps but its just a thing ive never bothered with. If I deposit and lose then so be it ive never went onto chat asking for a comp as ive lost my money same as ive never went onto chat and said can I get a bonus its my birthday. If a casino gives me comps then fine its not something id chase tho I know many do. End of day I play casinos because I like the whole package not just what they offer in bonuses.
I could have written that myself! Spot on.

KK
 
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This maybe sound stupid coming from me now, but I do feel like I destroyed this thread.

I was told that this was such an important thing to discuss for so many. I'm sure it is.
This thread are so full of garbage now that I wanted to ask if someone couldn't start a new one on the same subject?
Anyone?Could you? Please?

Maybe a thread that's not controlled by one person, but by all of us as it should be, where we respect eachother :)
 
Tirilej don't feel bad as in no way did you destroy this thread you simply posted your opinion and that is the idea of these posts. If the thread went off topic or simply turned into a nasty debate then whether you had posted or not it would have went the same way. I myself posted at beginning as well tho not in an offensive way. And to be honest if this thread got restarted I would just see it going the same way this one did as for some reason a few threads have went a similar way in recent times. So relax, enjoy the rest of your weekend and don't think that in any way whats been posted on here was solely your responsibility.
 
I wouldn't expect a comp from any casino I lost at, I think I have asked once in 6 years!! I have made deposit after deposit at GUTS and not made one single withdrawal, I wouldn't ask for a comp though.
 
Tirilej don't feel bad as in no way did you destroy this thread you simply posted your opinion and that is the idea of these posts. If the thread went off topic or simply turned into a nasty debate then whether you had posted or not it would have went the same way. I myself posted at beginning as well tho not in an offensive way. And to be honest if this thread got restarted I would just see it going the same way this one did as for some reason a few threads have went a similar way in recent times. So relax, enjoy the rest of your weekend and don't think that in any way whats been posted on here was solely your responsibility.

You're a nice guy Paul so thanks for that!

I see my responsibility, even though I had no idea when I wrote it that this could happen.
We learn something new each day and I have learned from this.
My opinion I posted is still the same though, but I'll be more careful next time I get angry.
 
... school yard back and forth such as the one you have instigated. Obviously your reaction and option to decline the offer means I understood your original intent perfectly. Another derailing poster with the sole intention of causing personal harm.

It seems to me you can't say 10 words without insulting someone -- directly or in a back-handed way -- and that your first and guiding principle is that you are right and everyone else is wrong, regardless of what evidence, argument or reason might be presented to the contrary.

As it stands your recent posts have been little more than stink bombs with apparently no purpose other than to irritate and aggravate: you can take that crap elsewhere. Whether you are a troll by intention or by nature is unclear but either way I think it's time to take you up on your oft-repeated promise to take a break from the forums: 15 days "vacation" for being an unrepentant PITA, at least recently.

Please find a better attitude while you are away, that or find somewhere else to post.

@ Tirilej: as you can see you're not the only one who is having problems with Azzurri's BS. AFAICT he created the problem, you're just one of the folks that pointed it out.
 
To be fair i can see where Azzurri is coming from.. As it seams as soon as someone does not agree with something that the majority in here belive to be the fact, some of you can come of as rather sarcastic and condescending. Not sure as if its intended or not. But someone having a complaint against a casino is not always a sore loser or has a gambling problem.
 
But someone having a complaint against a casino is not always a sore loser or has a gambling problem.

But unfortunately that's what the tone of the initial post was, and continued on to be just that, Sore Loser.

The short story of the post was, "I lost money and am not getting enough free money".

Sure if the OP wants to post a thread like that its fine, but when people point out the reality of the situation he doesn't need to get out of hand.
 
You're quite right. Not everyone who does has a gambling problem or suchlike. I believe many people who come here do have genuine reasons for doing so. However having read some of Azzuri's posts it seems to be that he closes and opens accounts at the drop of a hat for the slightest thing. No tolerance to failure at all. On a few occasions he has closed the account before a suitable resolution has been agreed.

It seems to be the case that people here have probably become tired of this. Hence the reaction. He reminds of the boy who cried wolf in many ways. The onlyy person who has ruined this thread is Azurri himself for being unable to take criticism. He gives out a lot of it. So he should have been willing to take it. Hopefully the break does him good.
 
To be fair i can see where Azzurri is coming from.. As it seams as soon as someone does not agree with something that the majority in here belive to be the fact, some of you can come of as rather sarcastic and condescending. Not sure as if its intended or not. But someone having a complaint against a casino is not always a sore loser or has a gambling problem.

Well, his profile says that he is maintenance worker, and considering that apparently Australian maintenance workers average like 50k AUD a year, 5k AUD losses in a single month at a single casino sound pretty high...
 
To be fair i can see where Azzurri is coming from.

Repeatedly attacking and belittling people in complete disregard for the Posting Rules and common decent behaviour is where he was coming from, at least insofar as getting the boot is concerned.

Being pissed off about gambling issues is one thing, decent people manage to post here on such topics every hour of every day. Not a problem.

Being a sharp stick in the eye of anyone who disagrees or offers criticism is another thing entirely. Not acceptable.

Needless to say the latter is what got him in trouble, it's not behaviour that any forum member should condone regardless of the so-called "excuse".
 
Well, his profile says that he is maintenance worker, and considering that apparently Australian maintenance workers average like 50k AUD a year, 5k losses in a single month at a single casino sound pretty high...

Really? Interesting... Of course it's possible he is talking utter crap about how much he's gambling. This is the internet after all... ;)
 
Really? Interesting... Of course it's possible he is talking utter crap about how much he's gambling. This is the internet after all... ;)

I agree with Captain Chaos maybe Azzurri has a gambling problem...

Azzurri's behaviour is very typical of a problem gambler. I mean I could be wrong, but Azzurri could most likely have a gambling addiction. Maybe that would explain his erratic behaviour along with his attitude. He appears to open and close accounts all the time, multiple complaints about losing (all the time), and he doesn't seem to be able to accept failure (which is something you need to be able to accept when gambling). I've also found some of his comments very hypocritical. I view gambling addictions as very negative. I think once his ban is lifted that maybe he should be put in the Quit Gambling section. However that's just my opinion (for what it's worth).

My intention was never to provoke Azzurri, I certainly was not expecting his reaction, I was actually quite taken back. CM is a place for members to share opinions, I found both Tirilej and Gagamel's responses as very relevant to this thread. However Azzurri's reaction was completely out of line (not to mention offensive) and I'm not going to sit back while other members are being yelled at and called names. I will never sit back and let that happen.

I really do, even after all his nasty remarks, genuinely wish him luck with his future endeavors, I also think that it's very important that he looks into getting some help :)
 
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Now we are in danger of letting conjecture get in the way of reasoned debate when he isn't (through his actions) able to contradict it.

Nobody knows if he is a 'problem' gambler. Nobody knows how much cash he has - he may have had an inheritance paying a monthly income as well as choosing to work. The truth is we simply don't know. Yes, he's been a PITA but it is almost as bad seeing the vultures circling over his body, so-to-speak.

Now he's gone for 2 weeks I can't see the point of adding anything else to this tired and dead thread.

Just my two penn'orth.
 
Now we are in danger of letting conjecture get in the way of reasoned debate when he isn't (through his actions) able to contradict it.

Nobody knows if he is a 'problem' gambler. Nobody knows how much cash he has - he may have had an inheritance paying a monthly income as well as choosing to work. The truth is we simply don't know. Yes, he's been a PITA but it is almost as bad seeing the vultures circling over his body, so-to-speak.

Now he's gone for 2 weeks I can't see the point of adding anything else to this tired and dead thread.

Just my two penn'orth.

I wrote the same at the same time:)

We will see in two weeks what will happen.
 
That's a fair point dunover. My post wasn't meant to imply he had a problem though with hindsight I can see how that could have been a conclusion from it. Maybe he has, maybe hasn't. Who knows? We only have what we see here. The only person who can truthfully answer that question is himself. Either way, it is wrong if me to speculate further. He isn't here to respond. So it's best left there. I hope the short break helps him though.
 
Just wanted to make this my first and last stop now I have returned from my break.

I'd like to start off by apologizing to gagamel for my inappropriate language and harsh words. I still am of the opinion that your first statement was off topic and unnecessarily offensive to me, however that gives me no right to react the way I did, and two wrongs don't make a right, therefore I should have expressed my disappointment at your comments in a more adult, and civil manner. To anyone who found my reaction offensive, I also apologize to you, and hopefully I can be forgiven.

To Max and Bryan, sorry for my overreaction, and not adhering to your directives when I should have. My intentions were not to purposely oppose or break your rules, rather defend my honor when things started to spiral downhill, and I felt I was being ganged up on. This isn't an excuse, but please know my stupid behavior was an instinctive reaction (a very poor one I admit), rather than a planned attempt to start a revolt against either of you. In my blind rage, my attempts to explain myself only dug myself a deeper hole, but hopefully you can forgive me, and accept that this is the honest truth from my point of view, and no malice was intended.

To Mark, we must agree to disagree, and I am happy to politely co-exist with you on this forum, however your comments, especially after I was banned, are too hurtful and malicious for me to comfortably offer you an apologetic hand, or forgiveness all the same. I'm not sure if you actually realize how potentially damaging your accusations of calling someone a gambling addict publicly may be, especially when you have no firm evidence; no idea about me personally, nor my financial situation; and most importantly, no knowledge of how many personal relationships I may share outside of this forum with other members here; but to do so, and label someone in the manner you did, with the malicious intent you exhibited, and when the person had no right of reply, says to me you knew exactly what you were aiming to achieve, even if in ignorance, and were unrepentant in doing so.

I can assure you I do not have a gambling addiction, nor am I maintenance worker earning $50,000 pa, however none of this information is anyone's business in truth, yet the evidence you based your accusations on, are as reliable as the evidence I have at my disposal if I was to randomly accuse you of being a drug addict. I'm sure you would think this to be a preposterous accusation on my part, and potentially damaging to your reputation, or standing within a community if your fellow neighbors were to read such a thing. My point is, a damaging label or accusation as serious as the one you so flippantly made, particularly when untrue, can still create unnecessary stress and unwarranted communications for the person targeted, and most damaging, it creates a permanent label the person must wear like a scarlet letter when in the company of those he knows and have been made aware of the accusations. So basically, do you honestly think, that I minor disagreement on a forum, regardless of how out of hand and petty it became, warrants such a personal and potentially damaging accusation as the one you, and some others made?

I am lucky that the persons I know who read your words, know me well enough to laugh off your accusations, however there were some that needed a gentle confirmation. Now I have to live in the knowledge that every time I see those people, can I be sure they don't still have their doubts, or think I have a secretive and destructive addiction. You have permanently marked me, and my crimes, regardless of how upset they made you, did not in any way warrant a left field attack and accusation with such damaging repercussions. Lucky for you I am a very strong person, and have good people around me, as a weaker soul could have done something very stupid, potentially even leaving your life forever scarred. Thankfully for me, the number of friends who saw your comments and contacted me were not so great as to be unbearable, however I can honestly say, that the mind fuck you served me, will now forever linger in my mind unnecessarily when I am in their company.

I don't know you personally, so I can only wish that you are not the malicious type, or make a habit of attacking people on such a dark and personal level. Yes my behavior towards gagamel was unacceptable, and I can easily be accountable and apologize for my stupidity. However, you often backed your attack on me with the assurance to others that your response was derived from an unwillingness to stand by and let someone attack your fellow members, and as commendable as that is, given the nature and timing of what I have taken to be a potentially very damaging accusation, I am unfortunately of the opinion that this claim of yours was a convenient cover for a calculated attack, and ultimate killer final blow.

I make no excuses for the hurtful things I said to gagamel, however they were stupid tongue in cheek school yard insults, and although I do not take away from the hurt they may have caused gagamel, it's highly unlikely anyone would have read my insults and honestly went away and formed an opinion that gagamel was a magic mushroom eating, loony stalker as I claimed. In the context of what this forum represents, and the seriousness of your insult, I think you neglected to realize just how many readers here may legitimately, and currently, be struggling with this addiction, and the pain it can cause on so many levels. I think your comments, and the reasons behind them, were not only damaging to me personally, but also disrespectful to those who may have read them and are currently going through the steps of recovery, or contemplating coming forward and admitting the problem exists. Your comments are hardly an encouraging pat on the back to those suffering from this addiction, rather I would think it would have acted as a deterrent, as your attempt to name and shame me as an addict based on a ridiculous and ludicrous thought process and imaginary locker of evidence, would clearly scare the daylights out of those contemplating reaching out here or seeking information, in fear they may be publicly outed prematurely, or spoken of with a flippant ignorance.

If you were really that concerned for my welfare, or convinced I may have an addiction, by your own admission, wouldn't your protective and helpful nature as you described, direct you to pm me personally to discuss such concerns, rather then state something so personal publicly? Surely if nothing else, seeing as the issue of addiction is well publicized via the awareness Casinomeister creates through this forum alone, you had to be aware of the sensitive nature of your accusations, and whether true or not, the extreme damage a public outing could do to someone who is really suffering from this illness.

I'm done Mark, and don't think this is aimed just at you, as I am aware of the others who so conveniently expressed these same views once I was unable to respond. Escalating a disagreement from stupid name calling as I regretfully did, to trying to permanently damage someones reputation via unfounded accusations, which were also irrelevant to any prior discussion, is a massive leap, and an extremely low blow. Yes I am guilty of my own foul mouth, and I am 100% accountable and sorry, however you took it that extra mile in my opinion, and while I hope even maybe deep down you (and the others) are slightly apologetic, the permanent psychological damage you have done to me through the emotional scars and ripples you planted in some of my personal relationships that can't now be reversed, leaves me forever damaged over a stupid forum discussion.

You clearly pulled out all the stops to win the argument, and obviously weren't too interested in thinking about how far you were willing to go to do so. Well, I guess now all I can do is congratulate you on your win, as I frantically wave my white mercy flag. As I said, I am happy to coexist and be courteous, however I hope you can at the very least take something from what I've said, and acknowledge how damaging those accusations can be, and ensure you don't do the same to anyone else in the future, as you can't ensure what someone's reaction may be should they actually be in the grip of such a damaging addiction.

And for the record, not sure how, what, or why you threw in an accusation of me having multiple accounts registered here, but that was also an unfounded false accusation based on no evidence, and I'm sure Bryan can look into this for you and confirm my declaration should this be of some importance to you, for what reasons I'm unsure. I have also reported the comments I found damaging, in keeping with the reporting trend that exists, and in truth, that I was unaware of before I was reported myself (lol). I'm doing so only to support my claims here, and please feel free to respond, however know from my end, this drama is now over, and I am looking forward to moving on and once again becoming an avid reader of the site, and looking at cool winner screenshots.

Once again, my deepest apologize to those I offended, and sorry if I missed anyone, but you can consider yourself included in my heartfelt apology.

Peace!
 
Just wanted to make this my first and last stop now I have returned from my break.

I'd like to start off by apologizing to gagamel for my inappropriate language and harsh words. I still am of the opinion that your first statement was off topic and unnecessarily offensive to me, however that gives me no right to react the way I did, and two wrongs don't make a right, therefore I should have expressed my disappointment at your comments in a more adult, and civil manner. To anyone who found my reaction offensive, I also apologize to you, and hopefully I can be forgiven.

To Max and Bryan, sorry for my overreaction, and not adhering to your directives when I should have. My intentions were not to purposely oppose or break your rules, rather defend my honor when things started to spiral downhill, and I felt I was being ganged up on. This isn't an excuse, but please know my stupid behavior was an instinctive reaction (a very poor one I admit), rather than a planned attempt to start a revolt against either of you. In my blind rage, my attempts to explain myself only dug myself a deeper hole, but hopefully you can forgive me, and accept that this is the honest truth from my point of view, and no malice was intended.

To Mark, we must agree to disagree, and I am happy to politely co-exist with you on this forum, however your comments, especially after I was banned, are too hurtful and malicious for me to comfortably offer you an apologetic hand, or forgiveness all the same. I'm not sure if you actually realize how potentially damaging your accusations of calling someone a gambling addict publicly may be, especially when you have no firm evidence; no idea about me personally, nor my financial situation; and most importantly, no knowledge of how many personal relationships I may share outside of this forum with other members here; but to do so, and label someone in the manner you did, with the malicious intent you exhibited, and when the person had no right of reply, says to me you knew exactly what you were aiming to achieve, even if in ignorance, and were unrepentant in doing so.

I can assure you I do not have a gambling addiction, nor am I maintenance worker earning $50,000 pa, however none of this information is anyone's business in truth, yet the evidence you based your accusations on, are as reliable as the evidence I have at my disposal if I was to randomly accuse you of being a drug addict. I'm sure you would think this to be a preposterous accusation on my part, and potentially damaging to your reputation, or standing within a community if your fellow neighbors were to read such a thing. My point is, a damaging label or accusation as serious as the one you so flippantly made, particularly when untrue, can still create unnecessary stress and unwarranted communications for the person targeted, and most damaging, it creates a permanent label the person must wear like a scarlet letter when in the company of those he knows and have been made aware of the accusations. So basically, do you honestly think, that I minor disagreement on a forum, regardless of how out of hand and petty it became, warrants such a personal and potentially damaging accusation as the one you, and some others made?

I am lucky that the persons I know who read your words, know me well enough to laugh off your accusations, however there were some that needed a gentle confirmation. Now I have to live in the knowledge that every time I see those people, can I be sure they don't still have their doubts, or think I have a secretive and destructive addiction. You have permanently marked me, and my crimes, regardless of how upset they made you, did not in any way warrant a left field attack and accusation with such damaging repercussions. Lucky for you I am a very strong person, and have good people around me, as a weaker soul could have done something very stupid, potentially even leaving your life forever scarred. Thankfully for me, the number of friends who saw your comments and contacted me were not so great as to be unbearable, however I can honestly say, that the mind fuck you served me, will now forever linger in my mind unnecessarily when I am in their company.

I don't know you personally, so I can only wish that you are not the malicious type, or make a habit of attacking people on such a dark and personal level. Yes my behavior towards gagamel was unacceptable, and I can easily be accountable and apologize for my stupidity. However, you often backed your attack on me with the assurance to others that your response was derived from an unwillingness to stand by and let someone attack your fellow members, and as commendable as that is, given the nature and timing of what I have taken to be a potentially very damaging accusation, I am unfortunately of the opinion that this claim of yours was a convenient cover for a calculated attack, and ultimate killer final blow.

I make no excuses for the hurtful things I said to gagamel, however they were stupid tongue in cheek school yard insults, and although I do not take away from the hurt they may have caused gagamel, it's highly unlikely anyone would have read my insults and honestly went away and formed an opinion that gagamel was a magic mushroom eating, loony stalker as I claimed. In the context of what this forum represents, and the seriousness of your insult, I think you neglected to realize just how many readers here may legitimately, and currently, be struggling with this addiction, and the pain it can cause on so many levels. I think your comments, and the reasons behind them, were not only damaging to me personally, but also disrespectful to those who may have read them and are currently going through the steps of recovery, or contemplating coming forward and admitting the problem exists. Your comments are hardly an encouraging pat on the back to those suffering from this addiction, rather I would think it would have acted as a deterrent, as your attempt to name and shame me as an addict based on a ridiculous and ludicrous thought process and imaginary locker of evidence, would clearly scare the daylights out of those contemplating reaching out here or seeking information, in fear they may be publicly outed prematurely, or spoken of with a flippant ignorance.

If you were really that concerned for my welfare, or convinced I may have an addiction, by your own admission, wouldn't your protective and helpful nature as you described, direct you to pm me personally to discuss such concerns, rather then state something so personal publicly? Surely if nothing else, seeing as the issue of addiction is well publicized via the awareness Casinomeister creates through this forum alone, you had to be aware of the sensitive nature of your accusations, and whether true or not, the extreme damage a public outing could do to someone who is really suffering from this illness.

I'm done Mark, and don't think this is aimed just at you, as I am aware of the others who so conveniently expressed these same views once I was unable to respond. Escalating a disagreement from stupid name calling as I regretfully did, to trying to permanently damage someones reputation via unfounded accusations, which were also irrelevant to any prior discussion, is a massive leap, and an extremely low blow. Yes I am guilty of my own foul mouth, and I am 100% accountable and sorry, however you took it that extra mile in my opinion, and while I hope even maybe deep down you (and the others) are slightly apologetic, the permanent psychological damage you have done to me through the emotional scars and ripples you planted in some of my personal relationships that can't now be reversed, leaves me forever damaged over a stupid forum discussion.

You clearly pulled out all the stops to win the argument, and obviously weren't too interested in thinking about how far you were willing to go to do so. Well, I guess now all I can do is congratulate you on your win, as I frantically wave my white mercy flag. As I said, I am happy to coexist and be courteous, however I hope you can at the very least take something from what I've said, and acknowledge how damaging those accusations can be, and ensure you don't do the same to anyone else in the future, as you can't ensure what someone's reaction may be should they actually be in the grip of such a damaging addiction.

And for the record, not sure how, what, or why you threw in an accusation of me having multiple accounts registered here, but that was also an unfounded false accusation based on no evidence, and I'm sure Bryan can look into this for you and confirm my declaration should this be of some importance to you, for what reasons I'm unsure. I have also reported the comments I found damaging, in keeping with the reporting trend that exists, and in truth, that I was unaware of before I was reported myself (lol). I'm doing so only to support my claims here, and please feel free to respond, however know from my end, this drama is now over, and I am looking forward to moving on and once again becoming an avid reader of the site, and looking at cool winner screenshots.

Once again, my deepest apologize to those I offended, and sorry if I missed anyone, but you can consider yourself included in my heartfelt apology.

Peace!


Hope that this is your last stop.
 
Hope that this is your last stop.

What do you mean? Do I not have the right of response after someone has falsely accused me of having a gambling addiction, or am I just suppose to ignore it and let anyone who reads it assume I have because two people say so based on nothing?

C'mon gagamel, I apologized to you. Now that I have returned am I never allowed to comment on anything again? Ease up.
 
Hope that this is your last stop.

That kind of thing isn't necessary. I recommend everyone chill a bit.

Thank you for your cooperation.
 
Whole site is overrated IMO. I had my account closed, reopened today thinking this insane losing streak ive had there can not continue. Oh well lost another 250 Euros. Totalling around 1900 Euros in losses not one single cashout. Payouts on their games seam very,very poor compared to other casinos. I think never have lost like this before and never being in the position to cash out..

No playtime, just horrible for 1900 euros worth of play at low stakes... Just a total joke!

Reading around the internett seams alot of other people have simular experiences. Also just saw the thread with the guy who got his winnings confiscated.

Why would CM back such a site? Seams to be alot of complaints floating around...
 
Why would CM back such a site? Seams to be alot of complaints floating around...

To date it seems more like a lot of hearsay and grumbling floating around. No official complaints have been filed so as far as we know is just a few disgruntled players having a moan.

If you, or anyone else, has a real issue that needs attention then by all means send us your PAB, after reading the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ first of course.
 
Whole site is overrated IMO. I had my account closed, reopened today thinking this insane losing streak ive had there can not continue. Oh well lost another 250 Euros. Totalling around 1900 Euros in losses not one single cashout. Payouts on their games seam very,very poor compared to other casinos. I think never have lost like this before and never being in the position to cash out..

No playtime, just horrible for 1900 euros worth of play at low stakes... Just a total joke!

Reading around the internett seams alot of other people have simular experiences. Also just saw the thread with the guy who got his winnings confiscated.

Why would CM back such a site? Seams to be alot of complaints floating around...

i get the feeling you dont think things are right here , you not the only person to bring this up a fair few players have also stated its pretty poor , i shall hold back on my views.

azzuri i think you made a nice post but , maybe you could of said sorry guys i was a knob & defended yourself with far less words also were not at a school yard any longer so take things with a pitch of salt, we cant get on with everyone here ), welcome back anyway
 
Also just saw the thread with the guy who got his winnings confiscated.

You mean the guy who abused the affiliate system and tried to use it as some personal "cash back on steroids" system?

Then when he won, he was stupid enough to ask for the casino to pay the winnings made on his affiliate account to the bank account of his common law wife, the same bank account that he had used for deposits when dual accounting with the account registered in the name of his common law wife.

It's pretty obvious why his winnings were confiscated.
 
You mean the guy who abused the affiliate system and tried to use it as some personal "cash back on steroids" system?

Then when he won, he was stupid enough to ask for the casino to pay the winnings made on his affiliate account to the bank account of his common law wife, the same bank account that he had used for deposits when dual accounting with the account registered in the name of his common law wife.

It's pretty obvious why his winnings were confiscated.

You got a link to that thread? Cheers
 
Whole site is overrated IMO. I had my account closed, reopened today thinking this insane losing streak ive had there can not continue. Oh well lost another 250 Euros. Totalling around 1900 Euros in losses not one single cashout. Payouts on their games seam very,very poor compared to other casinos. I think never have lost like this before and never being in the position to cash out..

No playtime, just horrible for 1900 euros worth of play at low stakes... Just a total joke!

Reading around the internett seams alot of other people have simular experiences. Also just saw the thread with the guy who got his winnings confiscated.

Why would CM back such a site? Seams to be alot of complaints floating around...


Careful what you say there whodatrec ;). My overreaction aside, I was set upon and labelled a sore loser for much less, lol.

In all seriousness though, I agree with you, and had the exact same experience, albeit a little more in overall loses. I don't think VS is a dodgy operation by any stretch, but I have formed the opinion that they may have a lower RTP output compared to other casino's I frequent. I'm not sure if that constitutes a tin foil hat (dunover will let me know I'm sure, lol), as I haven't completed an in-depth mathematical analysis as some members here would prefer, however based on many hours of play, and immediate comparisons to other sites I play at the same time or straight after, I can only state what I have experienced and witnessed, and I guess this ultimately how we players pick and choose the casinos we wish to associate ourselves with.

Personally, VS is the first casino I decided to close my account with permanently, due to the continuing cycle I was experiencing. I decided that removing the temptation to play there permanently, allowed me to spend that money at other sites I have at least experienced a few wins at. That's not knocking VS, and I still wouldn't not recommend them to anyone, as they do a lot of things right, however this was my decision as ultimately you tend to follow your player's instinct at some point, and stick to where you've experienced more regular wins, even if you don't end up cashing out (as stupid as that sounds). Obviously there's evidence that players have cashed out winnings at VS, hence I don't think they are dodgy, however not all casinos work for all players, so we may be the minority, and lucky for us we ultimately can decide what we choose to do about it.

Just on that confiscation issue, it turned out the fella was in breach of his affiliate terms and responsibilities, therefore VS were within their rights to do so. A little different to our experience.

I couldn't help but just make a little reference to the fact that whodatrec's comments were met with nothing more than the utmost courteous and intelligent of responses, with not a 'sore loser' jibe in sight! This is bliss, isn't it? :)
 
I'm not sure how they can have a lower RTP output though? RTP is fixed through slot design and wins are determined by the RNG, none of which the casino has access to. Any amendment to these would be reflected on every site using the software.

If a casino did have access then they would probably find themselves on the rogue list quicker than you can say it!
 
I'm not sure how they can have a lower RTP output though? RTP is fixed through slot design and wins are determined by the RNG, none of which the casino has access to. Any amendment to these would be reflected on every site using the software.

If a casino did have access then they would probably find themselves on the rogue list quicker than you can say it!

There are some software companies who offer slots with a range of TRTP. But I don't think many of them advertise the fact.

IGT offer several 'maths models' (as they put it). That's why the TRTP stated on their paytables is a range of percentges, rather than just one figure. and WMS obviously supplied JPP with lower TRTP slots, to take into account their 'site jackpots'

The problem is, knowing which casinos have which versions. there's no obvious way of telling
 
Careful what you say there whodatrec ;). My overreaction aside, I was set upon and labelled a sore loser for much less, lol.

In all seriousness though, I agree with you, and had the exact same experience, albeit a little more in overall loses. I don't think VS is a dodgy operation by any stretch, but I have formed the opinion that they may have a lower RTP output compared to other casino's I frequent. I'm not sure if that constitutes a tin foil hat (dunover will let me know I'm sure, lol), as I haven't completed an in-depth mathematical analysis as some members here would prefer, however based on many hours of play, and immediate comparisons to other sites I play at the same time or straight after, I can only state what I have experienced and witnessed, and I guess this ultimately how we players pick and choose the casinos we wish to associate ourselves with.

Personally, VS is the first casino I decided to close my account with permanently, due to the continuing cycle I was experiencing. I decided that removing the temptation to play there permanently, allowed me to spend that money at other sites I have at least experienced a few wins at. That's not knocking VS, and I still wouldn't not recommend them to anyone, as they do a lot of things right, however this was my decision as ultimately you tend to follow your player's instinct at some point, and stick to where you've experienced more regular wins, even if you don't end up cashing out (as stupid as that sounds). Obviously there's evidence that players have cashed out winnings at VS, hence I don't think they are dodgy, however not all casinos work for all players, so we may be the minority, and lucky for us we ultimately can decide what we choose to do about it.

Just on that confiscation issue, it turned out the fella was in breach of his affiliate terms and responsibilities, therefore VS were within their rights to do so. A little different to our experience.

I couldn't help but just make a little reference to the fact that whodatrec's comments were met with nothing more than the utmost courteous and intelligent of responses, with not a 'sore loser' jibe in sight! This is bliss, isn't it? :)

Actually I liked this post of yours. Not a book to read, no whining but well thought out.
Keep that up and I promise to be nice :thumbsup:

Regarding Whodatrec I think he is collecting hats already. I respect his never ending thoughts about non randomness :)
 
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