Roguish Tradition Casino and likely all Rival casinos are Rogue. All Evidence shown here.

[nisosbar]

I can confirm our blackjack pays out 3:2.

Can you tell me if the white labels are each allowed by Rival to alter the RTP settings on regular slots?

That is, even though each slot has an RTP of about 96%, if a slot spent a week at 97% and then the subsequent week at 95%, the RTP could still truthfully be stated to be 96%. Therefore, many here have questioned whether or not each skin can alter these settings, or not, and whether the games occur at servers with each individual casino, or not?

 

[LaurieJim]

To the 3 Reps that responded so how many more casino Reps will come forward to clear their casinos names on this disturbing issue.


I like the way and style the OP posts but do not agree with his past actions, which paved the way of him being banned a 3 erd time under a different alias. It does seem that he will have no way or outlet to defend what he posted in this thread, im not taking up for him on the multi alias abuse and sometimes his past bad manners but taking up for his right to defend himself over this very serious issue, its only right given the nature of the thread, just my 2 cents.

Laurie

 

[NASHVEGAS]

That's not a split hand, he was playing two hands. It says "no" under "from split".

Good point!

 

[kakata]

Lets assume that someone from Rival or someone from any Rivalpowered casino will give you an "answer".....cause IMO it should only be classified as that an answer....wich is a completely different word from "the truth"....will you guys/gals keep patronizing any of em? I wouldnt and I wont.

Now we could go back to the "argument" between me and Pina about the " cool cat " thread....

Now, that Ive learned what in " my opinion " or "judgment meter", if you want, is enough to know"..I wouldnt and I wont....and I hope and excpect the same from all of the CM members who have or will have access to this thread.

Thats the Big advantage of being member of this forum over the " immens ' number of newbies ,
who still know nothing about the world of online gambling...Like I didnt few years back and like
"everyone" did at some point in his/her life....no exceptions.

JMO

 

[KasinoKing]

That's not a split hand, he was playing two hands. It says "no" under "from split".

Oooops - my bad!

Hi everyone,

I can confirm that Simon Says pays out 3:2 on our Blackjack games.

Regards,
Kendra

Thanks for your wonderfully informative and useful post!
[/sarcasm]
How about contributing something REALLY useful and confirming if Rival casinos do have the OPTION to select from different variants of BlackJack; specifically is there an option for you to provide a game to your players where Blackjacks only pay 1:1?

That question goes for the other Rival reps too.

KK

 

[vinylweatherman]

I can confirm our blackjack pays out 3:2.

I'm honestly not sure why my name is being dragged through the mud. I replied to the OPs PM, with the truth; there is nothing I can do.
I can understand the OPs frustration, but I'm not sure exactly what else was expected of me, given this is an issue between a player and a casino I have zero access to and is totally unrelated except for our common provider.

Yes we share the same outsourced CS, but we have managers that will react to specific individual cases like this one in different manners, as each casino administrator feels fit. Lumping the decisions of one casino administration together with that of another seems a little bit of a stretch.

I'm also not sure why our private conversation was brought into public domain when it has nothing to do with the topic of complaint.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

The OP said that you first replied by telling him to contact the casino concerned, but that you then stopped replying to him, AND THEN BONUS BANNED HIM.

He interpreted this bonus banning as a punishment for speaking out, and from his account of his playing style at your casino, I can see no other logical reason for him being suddenly bonus banned after his second contact with you.

The fuss is over the discovery of what Rival casinos CAN do, and GET AWAY WITH until this overenthusiastic casino owner decided to configure blackjack to pay only 1:1, instead of the accepted 3:2, or even the vegas 6:5. Sooner or later, it was bound to get noticed, and trouble was bound to follow.
Worse still were the constant LIES and misdirection received from support in what appeared to be a panicked management keen to hide the evidence and fix things before the issue blew up in their face. They clearly failed, because they were NOT dealing with a mere player, but an EXPERIENCED one, and on/off Casinomeister member.

It seems that Rival have ALWAYS allowed individual operators to configure games, maybe not all of them, but certainly some of them. The revelation that this was an INTENTIONAL setting of the game, rather than a mistake, has made things even WORSE.

The problem is that ALL Rival casinos are ABLE to do this, and we have to TRUST them not to, and with the barrage of breaches of trust that players have experienced from Rival in the past, this is asking the impossible.

It was hard enough LAST WEEK, when the official line was that the games were the SAME, whatever Rival casino you played at. Even when it was mentioned that more than 2 years ago, some slot paytables were changed, there was an attempt by some Rival reps to deny anything of the sort ever happened, and certainly would NOT happen now, even if it DID happen back then.

Well, it DID happen then, even though it was down to them tweaking existing slots after they were given a "panning" in player reviews.

More importantly, it happened again NOW!! at Tradition at least, with the Blackjack game being configured to not allow doubles when it should according to the rules, and the payout for a Blackjack being reduced to 1:1 WHICH DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME'S TITLE.

Now, all the other Rivals are under a further cloud of suspicion, and if caught out lying about something again, it could cost them many marketing opportunities, since affiliates that promote them are starting to get fed up with this, and are beginning to consider pulling the links, some have already done so.
I doubt whether there will be any differentiation between one white label and another when the $h1t hits the fan.

The problem with reps now trying to limit the damage by not answering the question "can operators change the RTP of slots too?" will be if later on there comes proof that they CAN, and HAVE BEEN, just as has been shown here with Blackjack.

Tradition, the Rival implicated in this, ALSO has an active, and "forum friendly" rep, so we CANNOT use the quality of the rep to judge the casino. The Tradition rep claimed to be the OWNER, not merely an employee, so the buck stops at HER feet over this. The other Rivals, for now, are getting caught in the crossfire.

 

[NicolasJohnson]

The OP said that you first replied by telling him to contact the casino concerned, but that you then stopped replying to him, AND THEN BONUS BANNED HIM.

I did not bonus ban him. I wouldn't do that. We've had plenty of customers flame us in public and I/we never banned them/bonus ban them. It is simply immature. Any bonus banning happens based on our internal standards. We don't use Rivals bonus banning.

Furthermore, it wouldn't make sense that I ban him because of his issue with Tradition. In the end, he was trying to avoid any backlash on us. I appreciate that. It doesn't make sense that I bonus ban someone for having a gripe, which I can't speak for, with another casino.

I'm sorry I didn't send a second reply. Honestly, I had nothing to ad, I'm not Tradition, I'm not Rival; I can only speak for VRC/RA. I do see that I should have atleast replied this to the player again, I'm sorry I did not.

He interpreted this bonus banning as a punishment for speaking out, and from his account of his playing style at your casino, I can see no other logical reason for him being suddenly bonus banned after his second contact with you.

The fuss is over the discovery of what Rival casinos CAN do, and GET AWAY WITH until this overenthusiastic casino owner decided to configure blackjack to pay only 1:1, instead of the accepted 3:2, or even the vegas 6:5. Sooner or later, it was bound to get noticed, and trouble was bound to follow.
Worse still were the constant LIES and misdirection received from support in what appeared to be a panicked management keen to hide the evidence and fix things before the issue blew up in their face. They clearly failed, because they were NOT dealing with a mere player, but an EXPERIENCED one, and on/off Casinomeister member.

It seems that Rival have ALWAYS allowed individual operators to configure games, maybe not all of them, but certainly some of them. The revelation that this was an INTENTIONAL setting of the game, rather than a mistake, has made things even WORSE.

The problem is that ALL Rival casinos are ABLE to do this, and we have to TRUST them not to, and with the barrage of breaches of trust that players have experienced from Rival in the past, this is asking the impossible.

It was hard enough LAST WEEK, when the official line was that the games were the SAME, whatever Rival casino you played at. Even when it was mentioned that more than 2 years ago, some slot paytables were changed, there was an attempt by some Rival reps to deny anything of the sort ever happened, and certainly would NOT happen now, even if it DID happen back then.

Well, it DID happen then, even though it was down to them tweaking existing slots after they were given a "panning" in player reviews.

More importantly, it happened again NOW!! at Tradition at least, with the Blackjack game being configured to not allow doubles when it should according to the rules, and the payout for a Blackjack being reduced to 1:1 WHICH DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME'S TITLE.

Now, all the other Rivals are under a further cloud of suspicion, and if caught out lying about something again, it could cost them many marketing opportunities, since affiliates that promote them are starting to get fed up with this, and are beginning to consider pulling the links, some have already done so.
I doubt whether there will be any differentiation between one white label and another when the $h1t hits the fan.

The problem with reps now trying to limit the damage by not answering the question "can operators change the RTP of slots too?" will be if later on there comes proof that they CAN, and HAVE BEEN, just as has been shown here with Blackjack.

Tradition, the Rival implicated in this, ALSO has an active, and "forum friendly" rep, so we CANNOT use the quality of the rep to judge the casino. The Tradition rep claimed to be the OWNER, not merely an employee, so the buck stops at HER feet over this. The other Rivals, for now, are getting caught in the crossfire.

I understand you 100%. I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.

All I can answer is the case of OUR casino. That is all I can do. Trust me, I wish I could answer you; I really do believe Transparency is key to any relationship; whether this be our affiliates, players or in my personal life with my Girlfriend.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

 

[vinylweatherman]

I did not bonus ban him. I wouldn't do that. We've had plenty of customers flame us in public and I/we never banned them/bonus ban them. It is simply immature. Any bonus banning happens based on our internal standards. We don't use Rivals bonus banning.

Furthermore, it wouldn't make sense that I ban him because of his issue with Tradition. In the end, he was trying to avoid any backlash on us. I appreciate that. It doesn't make sense that I bonus ban someone for having a gripe, which I can't speak for, with another casino.

I'm sorry I didn't send a second reply. Honestly, I had nothing to ad, I'm not Tradition, I'm not Rival; I can only speak for VRC/RA. I do see that I should have atleast replied this to the player again, I'm sorry I did not.



I understand you 100%. I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.

All I can answer is the case of OUR casino. That is all I can do. Trust me, I wish I could answer you; I really do believe Transparency is key to any relationship; whether this be our affiliates, players or in my personal life with my Girlfriend.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

Unfortunately, the OP got bonus banned at the same time, and presumably was not told, but found out for himself when logging in & seeing everything had disappeared. IF he had been doing as he said, playing mostly without bonuses, and giving a fair bit of action, it makes it even MORE puzzling that your internal systems flagged him for a bonus ban. Unfortunately, his banning means he can no longer contribute to this discussion, but you ARE right in that you can ONLY speak for your OWN properties, and not others.

Unfortunately, we have to deduce that the possibility exists that there are other "tweaks" available to Rival operators, otherwise Rival would take the same stand as Microgaming, and make an official statement that the games were "set in stone" once released.

RTG started out like this, with these "secret" tweaks available to operators. Some operators then misused this facility to "rip off" unsuspecting players, and RTG had to clean things up, implementing rules that changes could no longer be made "on the fly" at the whim of an operator, as seems to be the case with Rival up until this issue blew a hole in their reputation. Now it seems that as well as disabling the 1:1 option for Blackjack, they are forcing operators to make changes through Rival, who in turn will ensure that everything matches up, such as the rules and table graphics, so that there is no misrepresentation. This still appears to be a "rubber stamp" policy, and is another one of these issues as raised in the payments delay thread where "operators give us the protocols, and we operate them".

If players & affiliates don't like these revelations, they can vote with their feet, or their $$$. RTG are no different in that slots and table games can be tweaked to have different RTP values, but at least now this is pretty transparent, RTG having been "outed" in the last few years, and it is pretty well know what limits they can operate between. With Rival, it's unknown what these limits are, but with 1:1 Blackjack formerly being a valid one, they seem to be pretty damn LIBERAL limits, and this is NOT in the players' interest.

 

[bb28]

I understand you 100%. I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.

All I can answer is the case of OUR casino. That is all I can do. Trust me, I wish I could answer you; I really do believe Transparency is key to any relationship; whether this be our affiliates, players or in my personal life with my Girlfriend.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

Thanks Nicolas!

I'm afraid it's sad but true that no one will ever have the official word from anyone from Rival.

If there wasn't enough doubt about integrity and honesty with all the recent troublesome threads, this one pretty much seals the deal.

 

[AussieDave]

I can also confirm the same about Paradise 8 and Cocoa Casino.

This has never been changed at either casino since they first opened in 2006

That's a crock....

I was a player at Paradise 8 when they first opened and remained a player till I was paid 1/2 of what I received for the same bet, for the same win the previous week.

Rival had been tweaking slot pay-tables back then.

So stating that your blackjack or any other Rival game run by Paradise8 or Cocoa Casino as not being fiddled is not only a joke, it's a direct contradiction against the posts made to this forum and admission by the Rival rep Rob that both slot tables and slots were tweaked with after being released.

Like this blackjack tweaking, the slot tweaks and pay table BS, it's the players who got screwed again

How much of my bankroll was swiped from me by playing games at Paradise8 that were or were within a bees d!ck of unfair?

A question I now have to ponder & whilst I'm sure other Rival players are also doing!


Dave

 

[NicolasJohnson]

Unfortunately, the OP got bonus banned at the same time, and presumably was not told, but found out for himself when logging in & seeing everything had disappeared. IF he had been doing as he said, playing mostly without bonuses, and giving a fair bit of action, it makes it even MORE puzzling that your internal systems flagged him for a bonus ban. Unfortunately, his banning means he can no longer contribute to this discussion, but you ARE right in that you can ONLY speak for your OWN properties, and not others.

Unfortunately, we have to deduce that the possibility exists that there are other "tweaks" available to Rival operators, otherwise Rival would take the same stand as Microgaming, and make an official statement that the games were "set in stone" once released.

RTG started out like this, with these "secret" tweaks available to operators. Some operators then misused this facility to "rip off" unsuspecting players, and RTG had to clean things up, implementing rules that changes could no longer be made "on the fly" at the whim of an operator, as seems to be the case with Rival up until this issue blew a hole in their reputation. Now it seems that as well as disabling the 1:1 option for Blackjack, they are forcing operators to make changes through Rival, who in turn will ensure that everything matches up, such as the rules and table graphics, so that there is no misrepresentation. This still appears to be a "rubber stamp" policy, and is another one of these issues as raised in the payments delay thread where "operators give us the protocols, and we operate them".

If players & affiliates don't like these revelations, they can vote with their feet, or their $$$. RTG are no different in that slots and table games can be tweaked to have different RTP values, but at least now this is pretty transparent, RTG having been "outed" in the last few years, and it is pretty well know what limits they can operate between. With Rival, it's unknown what these limits are, but with 1:1 Blackjack formerly being a valid one, they seem to be pretty damn LIBERAL limits, and this is NOT in the players' interest.

Thanks Nicolas!

I'm afraid it's sad but true that no one will ever have the official word from anyone from Rival.

If there wasn't enough doubt about integrity and honesty with all the recent troublesome threads, this one pretty much seals the deal.

All I can say is I agree with you guys. I hope Rival makes an official statement regarding this issue. You people deserve transparency!

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

 

[Nifty29]

I understand you 100%. I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.

All I can answer is the case of OUR casino. That is all I can do. Trust me, I wish I could answer you; I really do believe Transparency is key to any relationship; whether this be our affiliates, players or in my personal life with my Girlfriend.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

Thankyou Nicolas for answering the question without answering the question

Q: Can individual Rival operators alter their slot RTP at will?[/COLOR]

A: I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.

I actually believe you when you talk about transparency, and it is clear that contractual constraints prevent decent reps like yourself from being 100% honest. The scary part is that these contracts seem to specifically prevent anyone telling players what they are entitled to know.

If Rival allows players to believe they are playing the exact same game regardless of which casino they choose, and the truth is that they are not, then their behaviour is deceptive at best. Of course, they could end all this right now by just answering 'yes' or 'no' to the question that Nicolas answered-by-not-answering. I really dont see the issue about why they wouldnt do so, given that there is no way for a player to tell in the short (and even medium) term if one casinos RTP is different to another....and it would certainly go a long way to regaining a bit of confidence from the player community.

I remember when Rival first appeared, I thought to myself "Yes!!! Something different from MGS/RTG and decent promos, fast payouts, and really original slots"

These days, I just cant help thinking that they lost the plot somewhere along the way and blew the chance to be a serious competitor for MGS and RTG.

 

[bb28]

I did a little digging on RobRival's AKA CocoaRob's posts.

Here is the post where he did say some of the paytables had been changed.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/cocoarob.17916/

And here is another link where the paytable changes are discussed.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rival-it-only-gets-better.14943/

 

[4 of a kind]

I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.if I answer your question.

All I can answer is the case of OUR casino. That is all I can do. Trust me, I wish I could answer you; I really do believe Transparency is key to any relationship; whether this be our affiliates, players or in my personal life with my Girlfriend.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

When backed into a corner it appears all reps always hit that one outer on the river, "it would be in breach of my contract if I answer that question".

No one here would expect any rep to give up their meal ticket for the sake of the alleged transparency, that never existed in the first place.

As everyone knows I'm on a crusade trying to gain access to gaming regulations from these foreign countries these casinos operate from. I've sent 5 letters to 5 different countries and numerous e-mails already. At this point I would assume "it would also be in breach of these agency's contracts with the casinos to respond to any inquires"

Tradition operates from the Island of Curacao, and abide by the regulations of the Curacao Internet Gaming Association, whatever they may be. They certainly won't tell me what the gaming regulations are.

After spending several hours on this gaming regulation crusade, it looks like I'm wasting time. One thing for sure, if your playing at any casino out of Costa Rica you need your head examined. It's completely self regulated since there are no regulations. Excuse me there is one regulation I know of, they have to pay their fees to maintain a license.

I believe that all online casinos even accredited ones have pretty much a free pass to do as they please.

It's sad that true gamblers like myself don't care about much except the action. I'm feeling like a real asshole for being so gullible for a decade.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I remember Nashvegas many times has alluded to a major issue with the BJ play at Rival...before he closed all his accounts there. But he's never come right out and stated what it was. I'm really, really praying that it is NOT this. If it is...I'm gonna be pissed at him for not making it public sooner. And...Rival needs a direct trip to the rogue pit, if that is the case. I hope he weighs in here and says one way or another if his issue is indeed this one, or something else entirely.

Different similar issues but dishonesty, lack of ethics, designed fraudlent schemes and all the many other issues I have dealt with the Rival clowns about are actually the same issues. Guess you are pissed at me............With all the different agendas, forum rules et al always at play, posting , well you have said yourself, lol!

 

[Pinababy69]

Different similar issues but dishonesty, lack of ethics, designed fraudlent schemes and all the many other issues I have dealt with the Rival clowns about are actually the same issues. Guess you are pissed at me............With all the different agendas, forum rules et al always at play, posting , well you have said yourself, lol!

Nope Nash, not pissed at you at all. But completely fed up with all the ones who insist on trying to "spin" doctor these issues and make excuses for this company as a whole.

Tradition willingly set their BJ game to a payout ratio of 1:1, and this is acceptable how? Not only that, when Freddy queried it on February 22nd, he was told that it was a temp issue, and had been FIXED. How appropriate they use that term. Fixed it is. Nothing but lies and bullshit from these guys....and I don't mean just Tradition.

I am so sick of people trying to defend the indefensible. I'd love to find out if RTG, MG or Crypto even have such a setting as 1:1 for any blackjack game on offer.

At last check on the GPWA, nary a peep about this issue...and how it affects the players ie. the affiliates livelihood. And at AGD...it has been brought up, but not more than a few posts on it.

I can see it is going to take a MAJOR shafting of affiliates a la Grand Prive, before they wake up and smell the coffee. I guess the progressive rollbacks, and MC confiscations weren't enough for them. One other tiny tidbit....I was told weeks ago by someone who works within the industry that the whole MC "seizure" of funds, is bogus. They said that CC companies don't seize funds already approved. What they will do is impose stiff fines on those companies/processors who were found to be miscoding the transactions. I certainly have no way of verifying this info..but IF true, then Rival have had no funds actually seized...but probably have had major fines levied against them...and someone has to pay for that don't they?

This whole thing makes me sick.

 

[chuchu59]

It's a pity not many of you play Paigow poker. I had experienced a hand where a push (dealer wins low hand and I win the high hand) resulted in my bet being lost. So if you play very fast, it is likely that these table games are traps for unaware players. I can understand that these glitches could occur but if this only happened at Tradition only there is a serious problem with the software. So should both the software and casino be rogued?

For the records, Rival never fixes it's table games. There is another glitch at paigow poker involving the use of the Joker (wont bother going into details). I relayed this to 2 Rival casinos. They told me it would be fixed but up till now I still notice the error. That was more than a year ago.

 

[asam]

*snip*

 

[Nifty29]

Apart from the original post the OP would just jerk off on this forum how great he is - nevertheless he should be able to respond to this thread and the banning should come afterwards.

Bailey's secret intention is to ban any kind of intelligence from his forum and it will end up with less and less people taking him seriously...see the recent betfair thread with a lot more to come...

(nro)

Asam - any relation to SamD...???

I noticed you just joined but seem to know a hell of a lot about whats happening here and other places.

Of course, you could just a genuine new member saying something intelligent, which, by your reckoning, means you wont be around for much longer either way.

Hows that for logic eh??

 

[chuchu59]

Asam - any relation to SamD...???

I noticed you just joined but seem to know a hell of a lot about whats happening here and other places.

Of course, you could just a genuine new member saying something intelligent, which, by your reckoning, means you wont be around for much longer either way.

Hows that for logic eh??

Let's just wait for SamB and Csam to post and the picture is complete.

 

[bb28]

It's a pity not many of you play Paigow poker. I had experienced a hand where a push (dealer wins low hand and I win the high hand) resulted in my bet being lost. So if you play very fast, it is likely that these table games are traps for unaware players. I can understand that these glitches could occur but if this only happened at Tradition only there is a serious problem with the software. So should both the software and casino be rogued?

For the records, Rival never fixes it's table games. There is another glitch at paigow poker involving the use of the Joker (wont bother going into details). I relayed this to 2 Rival casinos. They told me it would be fixed but up till now I still notice the error. That was more than a year ago.

One of the threads I pointed to regarding RobRival's post was his response to you about the paigow poker issue. Was this the same issue that you pointed out above?

Curious minds want to know.

 

[chuchu59]

One of the threads I pointed to regarding RobRival's post was his response to you about the paigow poker issue. Was this the same issue that you pointed out above?

Curious minds want to know.

Yes, I recall RobRival responding to one of the paigow issues. Unfortunately, none of the several paigow glitches have been corrected.

 

[KasinoKing]

Asam - any relation to SamD...???

I noticed you just joined but seem to know a hell of a lot about whats happening here and other places.

Of course, you could just a genuine new member saying something intelligent, which, by your reckoning, means you wont be around for much longer either way.

Hows that for logic eh??

I don't think he expects to be here long - look at his sign-off; (nro)
Just a couple of letters missing there... nitro
Another seasoned banned poster.

KK

 

[asam]

*snip*

 

[rockycatt]

An interesting way to beat the slots...

is this like cyber slave trafficing