RIVAL, It Only Gets Better

me_and_ed

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It seems as per "players advice" they have reduced the paytables on slots, when I asked Live Help for an explanation here is what I got. It appears the tables have been cut by at least 50%. I like the software, great customer service, but what the hell are they thinking!!
 
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kwblue

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USA
We 'kinda' asked for that :) Not exactly. Basically, I think everyone wanted to see REAL payouts from bonus rounds. Right now you don't get shit on any of the bonus rounds compared to any other casino.

Of course they would have to downgrade their payout percentages, but I am unsure why the paytables themselves need to be adjusted. At least NOT acrosss the board.

I'm sure they will get it right. Hope that is better for everyone. I would certainly expect to see some screenshots in the Winner Screenshots section now.
 

me_and_ed

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I was a little quick with my first analysis of the paytable change, I said they were reduced by about 50%, I was WRONG, more like 75-80%, what use to pay $1.50 now pays .25c, they were nice enough to furnish me with a $50/nd chip, I am actually embarrased for them, totally absurd, a complete waste of time, I had one feature in 450 spins, it paid $10.75. I am done with these guys ( I am sure they will be happy as they dont have to read anymore of my posts).:lolup:
 

kwblue

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Why the hell would the reduce the paytable 75% AND THEN only give out a $10.75 bonus win??? They seriously cannot be that stupid... can they???

C'mon guys (Rival, CocoaRob, whoever)... Let's get this fixed before everyone decides never to play a Rival casino again! Go play over at Microgaming, RTG, or even Hype. You wll see how those games operate and what type of wins you get. THEY still make money, you will too. However, you will have happy players to boot.

Good luck.
 

RobRival

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Apr 16, 2006
Location
Canada
Rival Slots

Hello everyone,

The 5 reel slots have been revised with not just changes in the paytables, but in the reels as well. This means even though one particular win may pay less, if you hit the freespins (which now occur more frequently) you are looking at 15 freespins with 5x multiplier for some of the games. Freespins can also be re-triggered. The games are much looser now.

Unfortunately, 269 spins at 0.75 might not guarantee you a winning session, but that is gambling. The $10 win or so was on a $0.75 bet.

The casinos have received a huge amount of feedback on the slots, and have forwarded the good and the bad to Rival. So far, we are pleased with the response.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Rob
Rival Technical Support
 

AussieDave

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Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
The games are much looser now.

Compared to what? Microgaming slots or other slots that most players play, your slots are still tighter than a fishes butt hole. Your definately under a mis-conception on that one Rob!

The $10 win or so was on a $0.75 bet.

And your point is... Yes your right gambling is a risk, but slots are a game of chance and your slots should be providing far better payouts on a .75cent bet on free spins than a lousy $10 return.

The casinos have received a huge amount of feedback on the slots, and have forwarded the good and the bad to Rival.

Feedback from where? What players? I wasn't aware you had an open survey, did you conduct an open survey?


Your obviously not a gambler, not that I expect every casino exc or rep to be one, but, if you at least held some idea as to what is acceptable to the norm; that being slot gamblers on a whole, you'd realise these slots are still a joke.

I've dropped a few bucks over at Paradise8 and although your VP can be patchy I think it generally pays out a fair game, which I feel I've got a chance at winning.

However, your slots were bad before the change, now they are absurd.

Do yourself & Rival a favour here, signup at a MG, RTG and any other acredited casino, drop some dollars and see how the other side does things.

Better still go for a cruise through the Winners Screen Captures section:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/winner-screenshots.4193/
I'm sure you'll find a heap of < .75 cent bonus slot wins that produce far more and far better payouts than Rival does for the same bet range.

Then go back to your programmers at Rival with some real slot facts and get them to fix your slots, before you send yourself out of business!

Edit:

you've got some great slot concepts and as it's been said you have some top notch support too. But your slot payouts are really the pits.
 
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me_and_ed

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Hello everyone,


Unfortunately, 269 spins at 0.75 might not guarantee you a winning session, but that is gambling. The $10 win or so was on a $0.75 bet.

The casinos have received a huge amount of feedback on the slots, and have forwarded the good and the bad to Rival. So far, we are pleased with the response.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Rob
Rival Technical Support



FYI, the game that is being discussed here is the Dog Pound Dollar game, this was a game that was supposed to address the poor payout problem, features were few and far between to say the least but your win was usually at least $40 and I have hit almost $100, acceptable on a .75c spin, the changes now are so drastic that your average win is going to be $10-$15, I played yesterday and got 1 feature in 450 spins?? 60 percent of the symbols in this game when 5 are hit pay $3 on a .75 cent bet, beside the wilds the top symbols pay $25.00 and the wilds I think pay $50 ( I am not sure as I have removed all these casinos from my computer). I think they should be embarrased. I am not wasting anymore time on this thread, thanks for all your responses Rob, as I stated before, great customer service, nice software, I hope they can see the light and get this mess cleaned up before it is too late.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
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I would like to add that the games are pretty good. Good enough to keep a player playing IF ONLY the payouts were reasonable. I have played for the last 2 days there and they are not even close to what RTG, HYPE and the others pay when you get a good hit. Granted, if we are willing to put a few hundred/thousand on the line to hit a good feature (bonus) then we should be rewarded if we ever do. Not with a lousy $150 for a jackpot hit..that is truly and insult.

Just played last nite and invested over $100 to get a $21 bonus round..now this is the kind of bonus round that I am referring to.


Go play over at Microgaming, RTG, or even Hype. You wll see how those games operate and what type of wins you get. THEY still make money, you will too.
Yes, please go and invest a few dollars like a real player does and SEE what we are saying. You might just get some players to actually STAY with your casino then. At this point, it's only good in PLAY mode for me...sorry...
 

soflat

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Oct 3, 2005
Location
Florida
A positive view.

From my experience, I tend to agree that Rival's 5-line slots play a little differently than MG and RTG.

I've had plenty of bad bonus rounds (winning only 0-10x bet) on the other software (MG & RTG), which is bad luck. But I get the impression the Rival games are designed to sort of even things out over the long run (frequent small hits mixed in with occasional medium hits). But unfortunately the 5-reel games don't seem to have the big wins that create excitement.

I do believe the overall slot payouts are equal to or higher than RTG and MG.

I much prefer Rival's 3-reel games. Here, they have good variety in paytables: for example Gold Rush has a top pay of only $100 on a 75 cent bet, while the Milk slot's top pay is $2500. The small and medium hits come frequently. My only advice here would be to add some games with gimicks (respins, a bonus wheel round, nudge, etc).

I think it is a top-notch outfit that is willing to listen and take criticism and player suggestions to the development room. Other plusses are their quick payouts and attractive bonus terms.
 

dominique

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I think as a new software Rival has shown good judgement and an open mind and that is commendable. Reps are available and concerned and I think this software will grow to be a major part of the gambling industry.
 

AussieDave

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Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
this software will grow to be a major part of the gambling industry.

That's if there is still an industry left after the 207 day grace period. With this effectively knocking out 60% of the market, I think we'll see a lot of places closing their doors...And for the players who can still gamble I think they'll be more selective...
 

soflat

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Location
Florida
Feedback from where? What players? I wasn't aware you had an open survey, did you conduct an open survey?

They are asking players for feedback (by email). I'm guessing all the nd bonus activity they have going on currently has a lot of players trying out the changes. I think it is great; MG never asked for feedback.

I assume you are always welcome to submit unsolicited feedback as well.
 

dominique

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Location
The Boonies
...And for the players who can still gamble I think they'll be more selective...

I certainly hope so.

Prohibition breeds crime, and it is only a matter of time until fly by night casinos will clog player email with "too good to pass up" bonus offers.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
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Played for real bucks just to test out the theory that they were better as they are .

Ok, I went and deposited (against my better jusgement) a $100 and received a $100 bonus for the total amount of playing power for $200. (means I can't cash out till WR are met and I hate that but needed the seed money to play)

This is what I have found:

I played the dog pound and found it to be very stingy. I hit the free spins once and won $152 thereabouts after investing almost $60 @$2.25 a spin. I thought , hmm this might be ok ...

Well..it doesn't get any better..it gets worse...actually..it gets worse than worse gor the payout for the top payout is laughable. I hit 4 of the lady dogs with a wild included and got all of $9 (what is the payout on ladies night for 4 of them with a wild may I ask). I mean..is this a joke or what?

Well...I then got a few more stingy hits and decided to cut my losses..went to the I-Slots ,As the Reel Turns.

Hit a few bonus rounds for about $3-$20 @$2.25 a spin. Never made it to the end..went broke as I suspected I would as hard as I tried to continue playing (went to blackjack and built up my kitty to go back and did go back with my small stash once again just to see).

Now, my take on this since I have been playing these slots in fun mode and real mode for quite a while and it is...STAY AWAY unless you play in fun mode for it will eat you alive. The games are fun but the payouts are still totally unbelievably ridiculously LOW. If you feel the need to play, play in FUN MODE only. Take your money elsewhere for you will not win ANYTHING worthwhile here.

I have attached the screen shots in sequence...if anybody cares to follow the progression of losses:
The pay table

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Top payer hit with wild and received this:


Old Attachment (Invalid)

Then hit 4 of them with a wild and was excited/happy till I saw the payout and I nearly passed out..so much for wishful thing (Thout it would pay at least close to $100 since I also hit 4 of the dog catcher man) Then hit the free spins for $150 and took another $100 to hit this

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Then hit 5 of these and knew what a joke it has become..

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Next, I will post the sequence for the Reel slots..and become more depressed and disallusioned with this casino..
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
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Left Hungary
Now on to the Reels!

:eek: I changed games because I dumped back over $200 and had about $150 left..and here are the results...now mind you it was $2.25 a spin and I was betting 5 cents a line so if you divide the coins..you will see the winnings..

Old Attachment (Invalid)

About $11.00

Old Attachment (Invalid)

About $22.00

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Almost $25

This one was the ultimate best! (being fecitious)

Old Attachment (Invalid)

About $3

Old Attachment (Invalid)

$15

and went broke...ahh well...had to test out the "all new updated payouts to be sure"
 

kwblue

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Jun 22, 2005
Location
USA
That just sucks eggs. I really wish they could get their paytables closer to Microgaming, RTG, or Hype. If they did this, they would make a killing because the slots are (IMO) some of the best out there.

However- with these payouts, nobody will ever know how good they are.
 

me_and_ed

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For all you naysayers, dont say I didnt tell you so. Thanks for all your input, hopefully the ownership will get their heads out of the sand, I figure one of two things, ownership is underfunded and fearful so they set the table to "absurd" or they will just prey on new signups, either way very shortsighted.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
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Joined
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Left Hungary
Stole this from the RTG thread!

OK, people from Rival , listen up! We as players have had a GREAT opportunity to play at one of the RTG's in REAL MODE for REAL money and here is the breakdown of bonus rounds you might want to consider! (link is here https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rtg-and-odds-on-going-for-the-big.14857/?highlight=rtg )

Denomination $.40 (200 spins
2 bonus rounds , the free 3 games on both
One bonus win=$4.00 other $21.00


Upped next 200 spins to 0.40/spin and ended with 1973.93. 2 bonus rounds of 9.92 and 2.04

Next 200 spins were at 1.00/spin. One bonus round for 196.25 and ended at 1951.10

Starting balance $460 Upped it to $5.00 @ 16 spins hit bonus for $370.00

Denomination$1.00 (200 spins
2 bonus rounds
round one 25 free games= 246.00 round 2 3 spins=3.35

So it seems as if the actual return we are getting from Rival games are at the level of a $.40 spin on RTG payout = $2.25-$3.75 a spin for the SAME payout at Rival (see attachments in previous post)FOR THE SAME RETURN!!. So I ask, why should anyone WANT to play there and spend almost ten times as much to win 10 times LESS what it should be???(at Rival)???
 
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darkpixie

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Mar 25, 2006
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Vancouver
Another dark spot on rival. When I had played before the bonus round on Hobo's hoard didn't seem to pay out #of coin win X bet size like it is supposed to and I just proved it in fun mode. I quickly hit the hobo's bonus at 10 cent denominations and recieved a prize of 1200 coins which SHOULD be $120 but when I looked at my actual win it was a measly $8.50
So not only are the payouts shite, the programmers apparently can't even do simple math!
 

RobRival

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Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Location
Canada
Hello everyone,

Does anyone else smell BBQ? :)

Darkpixie - the bug you encountered is if you clicked "spin" then the proper win amount would have then be displayed. Your balance, however, was properly updated. We will have this fixed shortly, and do apologize for the inconvenience.

As for the payouts - the games that you are playing, Dog Pound, has 15 free spins with 5x multiplier. I believe this quite unique. This feature, when hit back to back, potentially triggers huge wins. Our simulations prove this, and several lucky players (unfortunately not CM members it seems) have been lucky to experience this.

For the iSlots - this is a completely new style of slot game. To expect it to play like any MG game is missing the point of having new, different games. If we had just copied MG games, we wouldn't be bringing something new to the market. Each iSlot has several bonus rounds. Some of the bonus rounds merely advance you to the next scene. Some are triggered after a scene change. Some happen without changing scenes. They play completely differently from other slots, but they do pay out extremely well for the lucky player.

We really do appreciate your feedback. We are constantly improving our games, and across the board we have seen more and more positive response from players directly because of the comments and suggestions we receive from not just CM posters, but all players on Rival casinos. For that we thank you, and that's what makes the occasional roasting on here worth it.

Cheers,

Rob
Rival Technical Support
 

me_and_ed

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Hello everyone,

Does anyone else smell BBQ? :)

Darkpixie - the bug you encountered is if you clicked "spin" then the proper win amount would have then be displayed. Your balance, however, was properly updated. We will have this fixed shortly, and do apologize for the inconvenience.

As for the payouts - the games that you are playing, Dog Pound, has 15 free spins with 5x multiplier. I believe this quite unique. This feature, when hit back to back, potentially triggers huge wins. Our simulations prove this, and several lucky players (unfortunately not CM members it seems) have been lucky to experience this.

For the iSlots - this is a completely new style of slot game. To expect it to play like any MG game is missing the point of having new, different games. If we had just copied MG games, we wouldn't be bringing something new to the market. Each iSlot has several bonus rounds. Some of the bonus rounds merely advance you to the next scene. Some are triggered after a scene change. Some happen without changing scenes. They play completely differently from other slots, but they do pay out extremely well for the lucky player.

We really do appreciate your feedback. We are constantly improving our games, and across the board we have seen more and more positive response from players directly because of the comments and suggestions we receive from not just CM posters, but all players on Rival casinos. For that we thank you, and that's what makes the occasional roasting on here worth it.

Cheers,

Rob
Rival Technical Support





:what:
 

Zoozie

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had to test out the "all new updated payouts to be sure"

I can see from the picture of the paytable that it is a standard slot with
free spin feature. These kind of slots can be analyzed with my slot analyzer program to find the excact payout%. (given each reel position has same probability which is the case in several other 5-reel slot softwares, like MG).

All it takes is that you find the symbol sequence of each reel and write them down. For MG slots this takes many hours. But it would be fast if you can see the symbols spinning slowly so you get the order correct.

If you just give me the sequence for each reel, then I can define the slot in the analyzer program and find the payout%. It could turn out to be interesting.

Zoozie
 

Addisyn

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Looking at that paytable for Dogpound and then looking at a paytable say for Aztec's Treasure (RTG), Rival's payouts in comparison for 5 in a row are ridiculously low. The lowest is 100 times the line bet for 5 in a row.

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Then I looked at Raindance (RTG) the lowest for 5 in a row is 125 times the line bet. Not to mention it is doubled if it with the substitute, Chief for Raindance. If I am missing something please point it out. The Rival paytable isn't one I am familar with.

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I don't think I smell BBQ at all perhaps it is the smell of money burning?
 

Zoozie

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I must add that just comparing the paytables does not really say much about the payout%. But my guess is that this slot has a lot of the payout% from feature. So hitting the feature a lot is essential for a winning session. In "Thunderstruck" 24.8% of the payout% comes from the win during the free spins. And the multiplier here is only *3 instead of *5 as this slot has.


Try compare with one of the MG low variance slots like "Cabin Fever" or "Dolphin Tale" and maybe even Loaded. Yet they still have about the 95% payout that Isis has, though 'Isis' has an impressive paytable.

Only way to find out is to find the order of all symbols on each reel and run the analysis. This could take som hours though, but would give a final answer to this
question.

Zoozie
 
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AussieDave

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Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
Does anyone else smell BBQ? :)

I'm at a lose as to why you feel the need to post derogative, back handed comments like this!

Sheeshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wake up and smell the coffee Man! I don't feel it's appropriate to make cheap jokes about your loyal players who are obviously NOT happy about your slots.

Maybe its the way you deal with embarrassing situations, who knows. However, I find it rather disconcerting, especially after receiving a personal email invitation to help you guys (I'm sure the others received this too) out by giving feed back on your slots.

As for the payouts - the games that you are playing, Dog Pound, has 15 free spins with 5x multiplier. I believe this quite unique. This feature, when hit back to back, potentially triggers huge wins. Our simulations prove this, and several lucky players (unfortunately not CM members it seems) have been lucky to experience this.

I don't distrust what your saying, I guess if one tells themself something long enough they'll start believing it. Though, I find your reasoning hard to comprehend, given that there are more than a few Rival players here on CM and not one of these players has ever experienced (from my knowledge) any these so named huge wins. That in itself seems odd.

For the iSlots - this is a completely new style of slot game. To expect it to play like any MG game is missing the point of having new, different games. If we had just copied MG games, we wouldn't be bringing something new to the market. Each iSlot has several bonus rounds. Some of the bonus rounds merely advance you to the next scene. Some are triggered after a scene change. Some happen without changing scenes. They play completely differently from other slots, but they do pay out extremely well for the lucky player.

Granted i-slots are a different breed to other slots, the same can be said if you compare a Ferrari with a Fiat 850. They'll both get you from A to B, it just depends on the style you like to travel in.

Transpose this analogy over to your i-slot series combined with players real time experiences, and your i-slot series (much like your other slots) are failing to meet the expectations of your players.

They have crap pay-outs, in fact I'd say they are nothing more than fairy floss slots. Don't understand...add water to fairy floss and you'll see what I mean.

You can run all the simulations you like, but in reality, these will always be controlled tests conducted under a pre-determined artificial environment. Nothing real about it!

We really do appreciate your feedback. We are constantly improving our games, and across the board we have seen more and more positive response from players directly because of the comments and suggestions we receive from not just CM posters, but all players on Rival casinos. For that we thank you, and that's what makes the occasional roasting on here worth it.

Given that I was approached by support from Paradise8 by email (Opinion on our new 5 reel slots Issue #26779) & taking this as a genuine appeal to furnish feedback on their updated 5 reel slots, I accepted this offer thinking finally they really want to do something about fixing these ongoing issues.

What a mistake that was, eh Rob!

What a waste of not only my time but other players who at a guess also were convinced that their input would be genuinely received.

Rob it's your prerogative to ignore and basically stonewall players input. It's obvious that you view players feedback & input (at least here at CM's Forum) with an underlaying vein of contempt. However, it's also a players prerogative to grow sick & tired of trying to help you. Which in this instance some of these people have gone way beyond suppling mere feedback.

After reading everyones input and your response (Rob), I've decided to uninstall all Rival software. IMO I'd suggest others do the same, as I strongly doubt we'll ever see these slots delivering the quality of play & fair payouts that we all expect.
 

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