Roguish Tradition Casino and likely all Rival casinos are Rogue. All Evidence shown here.

[nisosbar]

I can confirm our blackjack pays out 3:2.

Can you tell me if the white labels are each allowed by Rival to alter the RTP settings on regular slots?

That is, even though each slot has an RTP of about 96%, if a slot spent a week at 97% and then the subsequent week at 95%, the RTP could still truthfully be stated to be 96%. Therefore, many here have questioned whether or not each skin can alter these settings, or not, and whether the games occur at servers with each individual casino, or not?

 

[LaurieJim]

To the 3 Reps that responded so how many more casino Reps will come forward to clear their casinos names on this disturbing issue.


I like the way and style the OP posts but do not agree with his past actions, which paved the way of him being banned a 3 erd time under a different alias. It does seem that he will have no way or outlet to defend what he posted in this thread, im not taking up for him on the multi alias abuse and sometimes his past bad manners but taking up for his right to defend himself over this very serious issue, its only right given the nature of the thread, just my 2 cents.

Laurie

 

[NASHVEGAS]

That's not a split hand, he was playing two hands. It says "no" under "from split".

Good point!

 

[kakata]

Lets assume that someone from Rival or someone from any Rivalpowered casino will give you an "answer".....cause IMO it should only be classified as that an answer....wich is a completely different word from "the truth"....will you guys/gals keep patronizing any of em? I wouldnt and I wont.

Now we could go back to the "argument" between me and Pina about the " cool cat " thread....

Now, that Ive learned what in " my opinion " or "judgment meter", if you want, is enough to know"..I wouldnt and I wont....and I hope and excpect the same from all of the CM members who have or will have access to this thread.

Thats the Big advantage of being member of this forum over the " immens ' number of newbies ,
who still know nothing about the world of online gambling...Like I didnt few years back and like
"everyone" did at some point in his/her life....no exceptions.

JMO

 

[KasinoKing]

That's not a split hand, he was playing two hands. It says "no" under "from split".

Oooops - my bad!

Hi everyone,

I can confirm that Simon Says pays out 3:2 on our Blackjack games.

Regards,
Kendra

Thanks for your wonderfully informative and useful post!
[/sarcasm]
How about contributing something REALLY useful and confirming if Rival casinos do have the OPTION to select from different variants of BlackJack; specifically is there an option for you to provide a game to your players where Blackjacks only pay 1:1?

That question goes for the other Rival reps too.

KK

 

[vinylweatherman]

I can confirm our blackjack pays out 3:2.

I'm honestly not sure why my name is being dragged through the mud. I replied to the OPs PM, with the truth; there is nothing I can do.
I can understand the OPs frustration, but I'm not sure exactly what else was expected of me, given this is an issue between a player and a casino I have zero access to and is totally unrelated except for our common provider.

Yes we share the same outsourced CS, but we have managers that will react to specific individual cases like this one in different manners, as each casino administrator feels fit. Lumping the decisions of one casino administration together with that of another seems a little bit of a stretch.

I'm also not sure why our private conversation was brought into public domain when it has nothing to do with the topic of complaint.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

The OP said that you first replied by telling him to contact the casino concerned, but that you then stopped replying to him, AND THEN BONUS BANNED HIM.

He interpreted this bonus banning as a punishment for speaking out, and from his account of his playing style at your casino, I can see no other logical reason for him being suddenly bonus banned after his second contact with you.

The fuss is over the discovery of what Rival casinos CAN do, and GET AWAY WITH until this overenthusiastic casino owner decided to configure blackjack to pay only 1:1, instead of the accepted 3:2, or even the vegas 6:5. Sooner or later, it was bound to get noticed, and trouble was bound to follow.
Worse still were the constant LIES and misdirection received from support in what appeared to be a panicked management keen to hide the evidence and fix things before the issue blew up in their face. They clearly failed, because they were NOT dealing with a mere player, but an EXPERIENCED one, and on/off Casinomeister member.

It seems that Rival have ALWAYS allowed individual operators to configure games, maybe not all of them, but certainly some of them. The revelation that this was an INTENTIONAL setting of the game, rather than a mistake, has made things even WORSE.

The problem is that ALL Rival casinos are ABLE to do this, and we have to TRUST them not to, and with the barrage of breaches of trust that players have experienced from Rival in the past, this is asking the impossible.

It was hard enough LAST WEEK, when the official line was that the games were the SAME, whatever Rival casino you played at. Even when it was mentioned that more than 2 years ago, some slot paytables were changed, there was an attempt by some Rival reps to deny anything of the sort ever happened, and certainly would NOT happen now, even if it DID happen back then.

Well, it DID happen then, even though it was down to them tweaking existing slots after they were given a "panning" in player reviews.

More importantly, it happened again NOW!! at Tradition at least, with the Blackjack game being configured to not allow doubles when it should according to the rules, and the payout for a Blackjack being reduced to 1:1 WHICH DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME'S TITLE.

Now, all the other Rivals are under a further cloud of suspicion, and if caught out lying about something again, it could cost them many marketing opportunities, since affiliates that promote them are starting to get fed up with this, and are beginning to consider pulling the links, some have already done so.
I doubt whether there will be any differentiation between one white label and another when the $h1t hits the fan.

The problem with reps now trying to limit the damage by not answering the question "can operators change the RTP of slots too?" will be if later on there comes proof that they CAN, and HAVE BEEN, just as has been shown here with Blackjack.

Tradition, the Rival implicated in this, ALSO has an active, and "forum friendly" rep, so we CANNOT use the quality of the rep to judge the casino. The Tradition rep claimed to be the OWNER, not merely an employee, so the buck stops at HER feet over this. The other Rivals, for now, are getting caught in the crossfire.

 

[NicolasJohnson]

The OP said that you first replied by telling him to contact the casino concerned, but that you then stopped replying to him, AND THEN BONUS BANNED HIM.

I did not bonus ban him. I wouldn't do that. We've had plenty of customers flame us in public and I/we never banned them/bonus ban them. It is simply immature. Any bonus banning happens based on our internal standards. We don't use Rivals bonus banning.

Furthermore, it wouldn't make sense that I ban him because of his issue with Tradition. In the end, he was trying to avoid any backlash on us. I appreciate that. It doesn't make sense that I bonus ban someone for having a gripe, which I can't speak for, with another casino.

I'm sorry I didn't send a second reply. Honestly, I had nothing to ad, I'm not Tradition, I'm not Rival; I can only speak for VRC/RA. I do see that I should have atleast replied this to the player again, I'm sorry I did not.

He interpreted this bonus banning as a punishment for speaking out, and from his account of his playing style at your casino, I can see no other logical reason for him being suddenly bonus banned after his second contact with you.

The fuss is over the discovery of what Rival casinos CAN do, and GET AWAY WITH until this overenthusiastic casino owner decided to configure blackjack to pay only 1:1, instead of the accepted 3:2, or even the vegas 6:5. Sooner or later, it was bound to get noticed, and trouble was bound to follow.
Worse still were the constant LIES and misdirection received from support in what appeared to be a panicked management keen to hide the evidence and fix things before the issue blew up in their face. They clearly failed, because they were NOT dealing with a mere player, but an EXPERIENCED one, and on/off Casinomeister member.

It seems that Rival have ALWAYS allowed individual operators to configure games, maybe not all of them, but certainly some of them. The revelation that this was an INTENTIONAL setting of the game, rather than a mistake, has made things even WORSE.

The problem is that ALL Rival casinos are ABLE to do this, and we have to TRUST them not to, and with the barrage of breaches of trust that players have experienced from Rival in the past, this is asking the impossible.

It was hard enough LAST WEEK, when the official line was that the games were the SAME, whatever Rival casino you played at. Even when it was mentioned that more than 2 years ago, some slot paytables were changed, there was an attempt by some Rival reps to deny anything of the sort ever happened, and certainly would NOT happen now, even if it DID happen back then.

Well, it DID happen then, even though it was down to them tweaking existing slots after they were given a "panning" in player reviews.

More importantly, it happened again NOW!! at Tradition at least, with the Blackjack game being configured to not allow doubles when it should according to the rules, and the payout for a Blackjack being reduced to 1:1 WHICH DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE GAME'S TITLE.

Now, all the other Rivals are under a further cloud of suspicion, and if caught out lying about something again, it could cost them many marketing opportunities, since affiliates that promote them are starting to get fed up with this, and are beginning to consider pulling the links, some have already done so.
I doubt whether there will be any differentiation between one white label and another when the $h1t hits the fan.

The problem with reps now trying to limit the damage by not answering the question "can operators change the RTP of slots too?" will be if later on there comes proof that they CAN, and HAVE BEEN, just as has been shown here with Blackjack.

Tradition, the Rival implicated in this, ALSO has an active, and "forum friendly" rep, so we CANNOT use the quality of the rep to judge the casino. The Tradition rep claimed to be the OWNER, not merely an employee, so the buck stops at HER feet over this. The other Rivals, for now, are getting caught in the crossfire.

I understand you 100%. I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.

All I can answer is the case of OUR casino. That is all I can do. Trust me, I wish I could answer you; I really do believe Transparency is key to any relationship; whether this be our affiliates, players or in my personal life with my Girlfriend.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

 

[vinylweatherman]

I did not bonus ban him. I wouldn't do that. We've had plenty of customers flame us in public and I/we never banned them/bonus ban them. It is simply immature. Any bonus banning happens based on our internal standards. We don't use Rivals bonus banning.

Furthermore, it wouldn't make sense that I ban him because of his issue with Tradition. In the end, he was trying to avoid any backlash on us. I appreciate that. It doesn't make sense that I bonus ban someone for having a gripe, which I can't speak for, with another casino.

I'm sorry I didn't send a second reply. Honestly, I had nothing to ad, I'm not Tradition, I'm not Rival; I can only speak for VRC/RA. I do see that I should have atleast replied this to the player again, I'm sorry I did not.



I understand you 100%. I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.

All I can answer is the case of OUR casino. That is all I can do. Trust me, I wish I could answer you; I really do believe Transparency is key to any relationship; whether this be our affiliates, players or in my personal life with my Girlfriend.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

Unfortunately, the OP got bonus banned at the same time, and presumably was not told, but found out for himself when logging in & seeing everything had disappeared. IF he had been doing as he said, playing mostly without bonuses, and giving a fair bit of action, it makes it even MORE puzzling that your internal systems flagged him for a bonus ban. Unfortunately, his banning means he can no longer contribute to this discussion, but you ARE right in that you can ONLY speak for your OWN properties, and not others.

Unfortunately, we have to deduce that the possibility exists that there are other "tweaks" available to Rival operators, otherwise Rival would take the same stand as Microgaming, and make an official statement that the games were "set in stone" once released.

RTG started out like this, with these "secret" tweaks available to operators. Some operators then misused this facility to "rip off" unsuspecting players, and RTG had to clean things up, implementing rules that changes could no longer be made "on the fly" at the whim of an operator, as seems to be the case with Rival up until this issue blew a hole in their reputation. Now it seems that as well as disabling the 1:1 option for Blackjack, they are forcing operators to make changes through Rival, who in turn will ensure that everything matches up, such as the rules and table graphics, so that there is no misrepresentation. This still appears to be a "rubber stamp" policy, and is another one of these issues as raised in the payments delay thread where "operators give us the protocols, and we operate them".

If players & affiliates don't like these revelations, they can vote with their feet, or their $$$. RTG are no different in that slots and table games can be tweaked to have different RTP values, but at least now this is pretty transparent, RTG having been "outed" in the last few years, and it is pretty well know what limits they can operate between. With Rival, it's unknown what these limits are, but with 1:1 Blackjack formerly being a valid one, they seem to be pretty damn LIBERAL limits, and this is NOT in the players' interest.

 

[bb28]

I understand you 100%. I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.

All I can answer is the case of OUR casino. That is all I can do. Trust me, I wish I could answer you; I really do believe Transparency is key to any relationship; whether this be our affiliates, players or in my personal life with my Girlfriend.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

Thanks Nicolas!

I'm afraid it's sad but true that no one will ever have the official word from anyone from Rival.

If there wasn't enough doubt about integrity and honesty with all the recent troublesome threads, this one pretty much seals the deal.

 

[AussieDave]

I can also confirm the same about Paradise 8 and Cocoa Casino.

This has never been changed at either casino since they first opened in 2006

That's a crock....

I was a player at Paradise 8 when they first opened and remained a player till I was paid 1/2 of what I received for the same bet, for the same win the previous week.

Rival had been tweaking slot pay-tables back then.

So stating that your blackjack or any other Rival game run by Paradise8 or Cocoa Casino as not being fiddled is not only a joke, it's a direct contradiction against the posts made to this forum and admission by the Rival rep Rob that both slot tables and slots were tweaked with after being released.

Like this blackjack tweaking, the slot tweaks and pay table BS, it's the players who got screwed again

How much of my bankroll was swiped from me by playing games at Paradise8 that were or were within a bees d!ck of unfair?

A question I now have to ponder & whilst I'm sure other Rival players are also doing!


Dave

 

[NicolasJohnson]

Unfortunately, the OP got bonus banned at the same time, and presumably was not told, but found out for himself when logging in & seeing everything had disappeared. IF he had been doing as he said, playing mostly without bonuses, and giving a fair bit of action, it makes it even MORE puzzling that your internal systems flagged him for a bonus ban. Unfortunately, his banning means he can no longer contribute to this discussion, but you ARE right in that you can ONLY speak for your OWN properties, and not others.

Unfortunately, we have to deduce that the possibility exists that there are other "tweaks" available to Rival operators, otherwise Rival would take the same stand as Microgaming, and make an official statement that the games were "set in stone" once released.

RTG started out like this, with these "secret" tweaks available to operators. Some operators then misused this facility to "rip off" unsuspecting players, and RTG had to clean things up, implementing rules that changes could no longer be made "on the fly" at the whim of an operator, as seems to be the case with Rival up until this issue blew a hole in their reputation. Now it seems that as well as disabling the 1:1 option for Blackjack, they are forcing operators to make changes through Rival, who in turn will ensure that everything matches up, such as the rules and table graphics, so that there is no misrepresentation. This still appears to be a "rubber stamp" policy, and is another one of these issues as raised in the payments delay thread where "operators give us the protocols, and we operate them".

If players & affiliates don't like these revelations, they can vote with their feet, or their $$$. RTG are no different in that slots and table games can be tweaked to have different RTP values, but at least now this is pretty transparent, RTG having been "outed" in the last few years, and it is pretty well know what limits they can operate between. With Rival, it's unknown what these limits are, but with 1:1 Blackjack formerly being a valid one, they seem to be pretty damn LIBERAL limits, and this is NOT in the players' interest.

Thanks Nicolas!

I'm afraid it's sad but true that no one will ever have the official word from anyone from Rival.

If there wasn't enough doubt about integrity and honesty with all the recent troublesome threads, this one pretty much seals the deal.

All I can say is I agree with you guys. I hope Rival makes an official statement regarding this issue. You people deserve transparency!

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

 

[Nifty29]

I understand you 100%. I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.

All I can answer is the case of OUR casino. That is all I can do. Trust me, I wish I could answer you; I really do believe Transparency is key to any relationship; whether this be our affiliates, players or in my personal life with my Girlfriend.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

Thankyou Nicolas for answering the question without answering the question

Q: Can individual Rival operators alter their slot RTP at will?[/COLOR]

A: I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.

I actually believe you when you talk about transparency, and it is clear that contractual constraints prevent decent reps like yourself from being 100% honest. The scary part is that these contracts seem to specifically prevent anyone telling players what they are entitled to know.

If Rival allows players to believe they are playing the exact same game regardless of which casino they choose, and the truth is that they are not, then their behaviour is deceptive at best. Of course, they could end all this right now by just answering 'yes' or 'no' to the question that Nicolas answered-by-not-answering. I really dont see the issue about why they wouldnt do so, given that there is no way for a player to tell in the short (and even medium) term if one casinos RTP is different to another....and it would certainly go a long way to regaining a bit of confidence from the player community.

I remember when Rival first appeared, I thought to myself "Yes!!! Something different from MGS/RTG and decent promos, fast payouts, and really original slots"

These days, I just cant help thinking that they lost the plot somewhere along the way and blew the chance to be a serious competitor for MGS and RTG.

 

[bb28]

I did a little digging on RobRival's AKA CocoaRob's posts.

Here is the post where he did say some of the paytables had been changed.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/cocoarob.17916/

And here is another link where the paytable changes are discussed.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rival-it-only-gets-better.14943/

 

[4 of a kind]

I'm going to be blunt; I can't answer the question that is on everyone's mind. It would be in breach of my contract.if I answer your question.

All I can answer is the case of OUR casino. That is all I can do. Trust me, I wish I could answer you; I really do believe Transparency is key to any relationship; whether this be our affiliates, players or in my personal life with my Girlfriend.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

When backed into a corner it appears all reps always hit that one outer on the river, "it would be in breach of my contract if I answer that question".

No one here would expect any rep to give up their meal ticket for the sake of the alleged transparency, that never existed in the first place.

As everyone knows I'm on a crusade trying to gain access to gaming regulations from these foreign countries these casinos operate from. I've sent 5 letters to 5 different countries and numerous e-mails already. At this point I would assume "it would also be in breach of these agency's contracts with the casinos to respond to any inquires"

Tradition operates from the Island of Curacao, and abide by the regulations of the Curacao Internet Gaming Association, whatever they may be. They certainly won't tell me what the gaming regulations are.

After spending several hours on this gaming regulation crusade, it looks like I'm wasting time. One thing for sure, if your playing at any casino out of Costa Rica you need your head examined. It's completely self regulated since there are no regulations. Excuse me there is one regulation I know of, they have to pay their fees to maintain a license.

I believe that all online casinos even accredited ones have pretty much a free pass to do as they please.

It's sad that true gamblers like myself don't care about much except the action. I'm feeling like a real asshole for being so gullible for a decade.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I remember Nashvegas many times has alluded to a major issue with the BJ play at Rival...before he closed all his accounts there. But he's never come right out and stated what it was. I'm really, really praying that it is NOT this. If it is...I'm gonna be pissed at him for not making it public sooner. And...Rival needs a direct trip to the rogue pit, if that is the case. I hope he weighs in here and says one way or another if his issue is indeed this one, or something else entirely.

Different similar issues but dishonesty, lack of ethics, designed fraudlent schemes and all the many other issues I have dealt with the Rival clowns about are actually the same issues. Guess you are pissed at me............With all the different agendas, forum rules et al always at play, posting , well you have said yourself, lol!

 

[Pinababy69]

Different similar issues but dishonesty, lack of ethics, designed fraudlent schemes and all the many other issues I have dealt with the Rival clowns about are actually the same issues. Guess you are pissed at me............With all the different agendas, forum rules et al always at play, posting , well you have said yourself, lol!

Nope Nash, not pissed at you at all. But completely fed up with all the ones who insist on trying to "spin" doctor these issues and make excuses for this company as a whole.

Tradition willingly set their BJ game to a payout ratio of 1:1, and this is acceptable how? Not only that, when Freddy queried it on February 22nd, he was told that it was a temp issue, and had been FIXED. How appropriate they use that term. Fixed it is. Nothing but lies and bullshit from these guys....and I don't mean just Tradition.

I am so sick of people trying to defend the indefensible. I'd love to find out if RTG, MG or Crypto even have such a setting as 1:1 for any blackjack game on offer.

At last check on the GPWA, nary a peep about this issue...and how it affects the players ie. the affiliates livelihood. And at AGD...it has been brought up, but not more than a few posts on it.

I can see it is going to take a MAJOR shafting of affiliates a la Grand Prive, before they wake up and smell the coffee. I guess the progressive rollbacks, and MC confiscations weren't enough for them. One other tiny tidbit....I was told weeks ago by someone who works within the industry that the whole MC "seizure" of funds, is bogus. They said that CC companies don't seize funds already approved. What they will do is impose stiff fines on those companies/processors who were found to be miscoding the transactions. I certainly have no way of verifying this info..but IF true, then Rival have had no funds actually seized...but probably have had major fines levied against them...and someone has to pay for that don't they?

This whole thing makes me sick.

 

[chuchu59]

It's a pity not many of you play Paigow poker. I had experienced a hand where a push (dealer wins low hand and I win the high hand) resulted in my bet being lost. So if you play very fast, it is likely that these table games are traps for unaware players. I can understand that these glitches could occur but if this only happened at Tradition only there is a serious problem with the software. So should both the software and casino be rogued?

For the records, Rival never fixes it's table games. There is another glitch at paigow poker involving the use of the Joker (wont bother going into details). I relayed this to 2 Rival casinos. They told me it would be fixed but up till now I still notice the error. That was more than a year ago.

 

[asam]

*snip*

 

[Nifty29]

Apart from the original post the OP would just jerk off on this forum how great he is - nevertheless he should be able to respond to this thread and the banning should come afterwards.

Bailey's secret intention is to ban any kind of intelligence from his forum and it will end up with less and less people taking him seriously...see the recent betfair thread with a lot more to come...

(nro)

Asam - any relation to SamD...???

I noticed you just joined but seem to know a hell of a lot about whats happening here and other places.

Of course, you could just a genuine new member saying something intelligent, which, by your reckoning, means you wont be around for much longer either way.

Hows that for logic eh??

 

[chuchu59]

Asam - any relation to SamD...???

I noticed you just joined but seem to know a hell of a lot about whats happening here and other places.

Of course, you could just a genuine new member saying something intelligent, which, by your reckoning, means you wont be around for much longer either way.

Hows that for logic eh??

Let's just wait for SamB and Csam to post and the picture is complete.

 

[bb28]

It's a pity not many of you play Paigow poker. I had experienced a hand where a push (dealer wins low hand and I win the high hand) resulted in my bet being lost. So if you play very fast, it is likely that these table games are traps for unaware players. I can understand that these glitches could occur but if this only happened at Tradition only there is a serious problem with the software. So should both the software and casino be rogued?

For the records, Rival never fixes it's table games. There is another glitch at paigow poker involving the use of the Joker (wont bother going into details). I relayed this to 2 Rival casinos. They told me it would be fixed but up till now I still notice the error. That was more than a year ago.

One of the threads I pointed to regarding RobRival's post was his response to you about the paigow poker issue. Was this the same issue that you pointed out above?

Curious minds want to know.

 

[chuchu59]

One of the threads I pointed to regarding RobRival's post was his response to you about the paigow poker issue. Was this the same issue that you pointed out above?

Curious minds want to know.

Yes, I recall RobRival responding to one of the paigow issues. Unfortunately, none of the several paigow glitches have been corrected.

 

[KasinoKing]

Asam - any relation to SamD...???

I noticed you just joined but seem to know a hell of a lot about whats happening here and other places.

Of course, you could just a genuine new member saying something intelligent, which, by your reckoning, means you wont be around for much longer either way.

Hows that for logic eh??

I don't think he expects to be here long - look at his sign-off; (nro)
Just a couple of letters missing there... nitro
Another seasoned banned poster.

KK

 

[asam]

*snip*

 

[rockycatt]

An interesting way to beat the slots...

is this like cyber slave trafficing

 

[bonustreak]

At last check on the GPWA, nary a peep about this issue...and how it affects the players ie. the affiliates livelihood. And at AGD...it has been brought up, but not more than a few posts on it.

Since I am a rep for AGD have been active in this thread, the thread at AGD as well. I don't think it is fair to lump AGD in this since we have been taking a very active stance against Rival operators on many different issues! I have to say as of late it is hard to keep up with the many things piling up against Rival software and Rival operators in these last few weeks.

 

[silcnlayc]

SamD:So Rival does not control the code for their games. And anyone who claims they do has been lying, I guess. they pretty much confirm our worst fear in this regard, that games at each casino can be individually "configured" even to the point where they underpay in gross fashion.

So what else is new?? Excellent obsevation WITH PROOF! Nice to know all my "theories" were not all in my head and dogboy isn't "all that" as most followed his evey word with tongues and tails wagging unquestioning..but when it came to push come to shove, dogboy disappeared without an answer to a really big question...but yet, It was I that got slammed for asking it.. This is some really serious sh*t that I have tried to point out for the last 2 years....but could never come up with proof..

Thank goodness others are now finding it and actually able to capture it for showing.

bb28:Well damn.......It was a interesting thread until Dogboy got fed up and left. Can't say I blame him.

silcnlayc, I don't understand where you are coming from, you are obviously sure in your mind that the software cheats.......I don't mean to be rude, but it gets tiresome reading your theories over and over again. __________________

Pinababy69: Outstanding post Dogboy, and pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about the whole "rigged" argument.

Originally Posted by silcnlayc
Exactly..only the ones in the know actually can say this...but then we have a few "tweaks" that have gone bad such as the double pears on a reel and the reduction in payout on Greenlight ..etc, but we are supposed to "overlook " these changes..they do not count..I cannot imagine how many other changes we really have overlooked thinking we imagined it when we really didn't..don't you???

Nifty29:I respect your opinion Silc, but I believe this is way off the mark.

you have such a great way of posting and i do respect your opinion but im getting tired of the same ole ride over and over again...........Laurie

JohnSteed:If 'silcnlayc' pushes her perspectives too much, I'm willing to overlook that because I can also appreciate the fact that she has experience playing on line, and that she's willing to post about it. It's not as though she's being applauded by everyone along the way either, so I find that she's put up with a lot of crap as well considering that she still makes an effort to write about her opinions/perspectives stemming from her personal experience.

It is nice to know others appreciated my input...so as I said, how hard is it to put a line of code in a game..well, this answered it..
.

 

[Pinababy69]

Since I am a rep for AGD have been active in this thread, the thread at AGD as well. I don't think it is fair to lump AGD in this since we have been taking a very active stance against Rival operators on many different issues! I have to say as of late it is hard to keep up with the many things piling up against Rival software and Rival operators in these last few weeks.

True enough Bonustreak. I did see quite a few threads all in relation to Rival, no argument there. And I applaud what you guys do there. I'd just really like to see an issue like this get more exposure. Proof of cheating/unfair play doesn't come along all that often. When it does, it needs to be exposed, by any means possible.

Silc...what does Dogboy have to do with Rival? I agree about the proof part...this thread shows incontrovertible proof of unfair play. No two ways around it. But Dogboy designed games for RTG, not Rival.

If anyone ever got any hard core proof (like this) that RTG was "rigging" their games...I'd be screaming that from the mountain tops as well. This really isn't the same as someone (or a group) saying "it just feels different", while just as many others say that the play seems the same. I'm not saying you're wrong in your feelings...but just stating the same thing over and over....doesn't make it fact. This thread is fact. There's a big difference, IMO.

 

[silcnlayc]

Pinababy69: Silc...what does Dogboy have to do with Rival? I agree about the proof part...this thread shows incontrovertible proof of unfair play. No two ways around it. But Dogboy designed games for RTG, not Rival.

It has a LOT to do with this thread. 2 casino platforms have been exposed for unfair practices, Rival and Top Game. I feel, that to believe someone in the know as dogboy is, you will only be fed what he wants you to believe. The proof will happen soon I believe, and then he also will have no more believabilty than Rival or Top Game people "in the know".

When RTG, and other platforms are "outed",only then we will see a fair game again as we did many years ago. I believe this will be a wakeup call to all the other casino operators. This thread might just bring some sense back into the other casino games and they will never be found out due to the changes they will implement, which hopefully come to pass. But if not , then all will be good and then the true nature of the operators will be exposed as it is here.

This has been a long time coming. The dominoes are falling and it is thanks to the ones that have been most diligent , not to the ones that spew what they want you to hear and believe.

Pinababy:If anyone ever got any hard core proof (like this) that RTG was "rigging" their games...I'd be screaming that from the mountain tops as well.

No you wouldn't. You would find some kind of answer to any questionable practices just as you have before.

Pinababy69:This thread is fact. There's a big difference, IMO.

Yep that has beared out my "feelings" of changes with online casinos.

Pinababy69:This really isn't the same as someone (or a group) saying "it just feels different

The only difference was, I had no proof....

.

 

[Pinababy69]

I'd love to find out if RTG, MG or Crypto even have such a setting as 1:1 for any blackjack game on offer.

Sorry to quote myself...but I was curious about the 1:1 BJ setting. In re: MG, all blackjack games are set at 3:2, with the exception of Double Exposure Blackjack, and Super Fun 21 Blackjack. Both of these pay even money or 1:1. Maybe there are other variations...but this is what I was told.

In any event, the operators do have access to max bet limits..but in no way can they change the payout for a game. They just do not have those types of permissions on the software. So if one day you were playing Vegas Strip Blackjack at 3:2, it's physically impossible that the next day you could login and be playing an even money (1:1) version of it.

If Dave (Webz) reads this, he will confirm it I'm sure....he worked for Ladbroke's for a few years, and knows the ins and outs of the MG software.

I'm still dumbfounded that individual Rival operators have the ability to just go in and change a game's settings in such a way. Some of the posts I've read lately in re: the way they conduct their business, makes me wonder if some of them have even ever played at a casino, online or off. Or have a basic understanding of math, HA, etc. To think that they can just "tinker" with their games at will...is beyond disturbing.

No you wouldn't. You would find some kind of answer to any questionable practices just as you have before.

Wow!! As I have before? Yeah, that sounds like me...letting casinos and software providers skate by on shady practices. Bring us the proof and we'll put that to the test.

The difference here is that there are screenshots of BJ hands advertising "Blackjack Pays 3 to 2", while it quite obviously is only paying 1:1. That is not even remotely in the same ballpark as you, or some others, saying that RTG (or whoever) have tightened their slots. Maybe they (meaning RTG) have adjusted the RTP...we all know they have different settings. But there are just as many of us who are happy with our RTG play...not just me. Again, that is nothing more than opinions/gut feelings on play (yours AND mine). There is nothing concrete in either opinion/experience. This situation with Rival is not even remotely in the same ballpark...other than to prove that cheating with software can happen. And who ever said it couldn't? I only ever said that I never felt cheated at RTG or MG...while you say you do. I have never once said it was impossible...I'd be a fool if I did.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

It's a pity not many of you play Paigow poker. I had experienced a hand where a push (dealer wins low hand and I win the high hand) resulted in my bet being lost. So if you play very fast, it is likely that these table games are traps for unaware players. I can understand that these glitches could occur but if this only happened at Tradition only there is a serious problem with the software. So should both the software and casino be rogued?

For the records, Rival never fixes it's table games. There is another glitch at paigow poker involving the use of the Joker (wont bother going into details). I relayed this to 2 Rival casinos. They told me it would be fixed but up till now I still notice the error. That was more than a year ago.

I HEAR YA!.............Dealer Wins

SIDENOTE:Help, why am I having to resize screenshots (the width) as per the manage attachments instructions?

Screenshot below-A glitch or pre-determined outcome???? Tread carefully, real carefully!!

 

[sjn]

With all these glitches and pai gow errors that seem to be reoccurring in Rival software I am surprised any casino using that software can possibly be accredited no matter how reliable or trustworthy they are. I'd go further and say they should be rogued as there is no excuse for these errors to go unfixed for so long after players have highlighted them.

 

[Pinababy69]

I HEAR YA!.............Dealer Wins

Screenshot below-A glitch or pre-determined outcome???? Tread carefully, real carefully!!

What the hell Nash? I originally skimmed your screenshot, because I thought it was Paigow, lol...relating to Chu's post.

Dealer had 9, you had 17...but the Dealer won the hand? That was the final outcome? WTF? Or had the dealer just not received his next card as yet? Did the hand play out? If so..what was the final outcome? If not, wtf?

 

[bb28]

What the hell Nash? I originally skimmed your screenshot, because I thought it was Paigow, lol...relating to Chu's post.

Dealer had 9, you had 17...but the Dealer won the hand? That was the final outcome? WTF? Or had the dealer just not received his next card as yet? Did the hand play out? If so..what was the final outcome? If not, wtf?

I have another question for you Nash.........is it just me or is there a shadow of a A & J? in the background of the 4 & 5? Or am I seeing things?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

It's a pity not many of you play Paigow poker. I had experienced a hand where a push (dealer wins low hand and I win the high hand) resulted in my bet being lost. So if you play very fast, it is likely that these table games are traps for unaware players. I can understand that these glitches could occur but if this only happened at Tradition only there is a serious problem with the software. So should both the software and casino be rogued?

For the records, Rival never fixes it's table games. There is another glitch at paigow poker involving the use of the Joker (wont bother going into details). I relayed this to 2 Rival casinos. They told me it would be fixed but up till now I still notice the error. That was more than a year ago.

Bryan has been aware of most of this and much more for approx. a couple of years. Yet, just a few months after the Rival/Bonne Chance/Irish Luck 29 page thread and Rival progressive ordeals as well as the T2 litigation and threads, he accredited white labels (where Greedygirl had just recently become the affiliate manager) as well as Sloto who he had planned on accrediting sooner but held off as I hopefully remember correctly from a PM exchange which I will confirm. I counted over 30 recent (before I said eff it so there could be hundreds) Rival threads in the last few months that contain consistent similar complaints. Half empty, half full. Bet on half full

 

[Pinababy69]

I have another question for you Nash.........is it just me or is there a shadow of a A & J? in the background of the 4 & 5? Or am I seeing things?

I saw that too Bonita. I sort of assumed that it was the previous hand's cards going into the little slot they get swept into, lol. Can ya tell I'm not a big time BJ player?

But good question, what are they, and where did they come from?

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I have another question for you Nash.........is it just me or is there a shadow of a A & J? in the background of the 4 & 5? Or am I seeing things?

You are not seeing things, next question but if you are assuming the dealer won with either card, that assumption is not supported by the hand history

 

[bb28]

You are not seeing things, next question but if you are assuming the dealer won with either card, that assumption is not supported by the hand history

Where Rival is concerned, its best NOT to assume anything, but thanks for clarifying that.

 

[bb28]

So what else is new?? Excellent obsevation WITH PROOF! Nice to know all my "theories" were not all in my head and dogboy isn't "all that" as most followed his evey word with tongues and tails wagging unquestioning..but when it came to push come to shove, dogboy disappeared without an answer to a really big question...but yet, It was I that got slammed for asking it.. This is some really serious sh*t that I have tried to point out for the last 2 years....but could never come up with proof..

Thank goodness others are now finding it and actually able to capture it for showing. It is nice to know others appreciated my input...so as I said, how hard is it to put a line of code in a game..well, this answered it..
.

Silcnlyc, what you've done in your post is like comparing apples to oranges. This is about Rival not RTG or Dogboy.

It's not time to bring out the popcorn yet.......at least where RTG is concerned.

Now when you do get some proof on RTG.......I'm all ears.

 

[Jufo]

I have another question for you Nash.........is it just me or is there a shadow of a A & J? in the background of the 4 & 5? Or am I seeing things?

Those A & J are just background graphics that have been drawn on the table surface. See the screenshots in OP's first post and you see the same cards there.

 

[Mavin1]

Silcnlyc, what you've done in your post is like comparing apples to oranges. This is about Rival not RTG or Dogboy.

It's not time to bring out the popcorn yet.......at least where RTG is concerned.

Now when you do get some proof on RTG.......I'm all ears.

The thing with comparing "apples to oranges", is that although many would like to keep the blinders on and think there is no comparison, the fact is they are both edible.
The casino industry was not built on honesty completely, they also have there unspoken well kept secrets, compromise, lies, deception, manipulation, expected revenue and on and on. If it takes manipulation to acquire expected returns for an industry that has grown so vast and is raking in the millions from the pocket books of the masses, then they will do what ever it takes to maintain there overhead and increase their profits.
Sometimes they are blatantly caught dead to rights, but for most of the time they aren't, as it is so subtle that always having hard core evidence is very difficult to obtain.
One would have to be pretty naive to think, they would "never" hook and crook the players to keep their bank accounts bulging.
The average player can only judge and weigh the evidence by the experience of their play. When a casino or platform is all take and no give, then everyone should stop supporting them, same as with proven evidence of outright cheating, stop playing them. When the money dries up maybe then they will see the light.

So I totally support Silc's stance on this issue no matter what platform is being discussed.
Her position is not exclusive to RTG.........

 

[bb28]

The thing with comparing "apples to oranges", is that although many would like to keep the blinders on and think there is no comparison, the fact is they are both edible.
The casino industry was not built on honesty completely, they also have there unspoken well kept secrets, lies, deception, manipulation, expected revenue and on and on. If it takes manipulation to acquire expected returns for an industry that has grown so vast and is raking in the millions from the pocket books of the masses, then they will do what ever it takes to maintain there overhead and increase their profits.
Sometimes they are blatantly caught dead to rights, but for most of the time they aren't, as it is so subtle that always having hard core evidence is very difficult to obtain.
One would have to be pretty naive to think, they would "never" hook and crook the players to keep their bank accounts bulging.
The average player can only judge and weigh the evidence by the experience of their play. When a casino or platform is all take and no give, then everyone should stop supporting them, same as with proven evidence of outright cheating, stop playing them. When the money dries up maybe then they will see the light.

So I totally support Silc's stance on this issue no matter what platform is being discussed.

I'm not naive, nor am I of the opinion that everything is all hunky dory just because someone said it was so, I want proof, so don't put words in my mouth as to what you think my opinion is. All I was doing was pointing out to Silc that this thread is about Rival......not RTG.
So.......now can we get back to the IMPORTANT issue and that is RIVAL.

 

[johnsteed]

***


I suppose the other way of looking at it, is that some of the players want absolute "proof" that everything is working as advertised, rather than believing that everything is all hunky dory just because someone said it was so (from any particular casino). To be fair...


I'm presently watching "Good Will Hunting", so how do you like dem apples?




Steed


***

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Those A & J are just background graphics that have been drawn on the table surface. See the screenshots in OP's first post and you see the same cards there.

Correct Jufo thus my cryptic, "next question" but then I refered to the hand history to somewhat clarify, sorry. I will take my meds now

Still not sure why the "manage attachments" function of the forum is giving me an error message (on width size of screenshots). I can not crop the screenshots I need to keep posting. Have never received this error message before so maybe it has to do with the recent CM restoration per se. Any advice appreciated!

 

[KasinoKing]

Still not sure why the "manage attachments" function of the forum is giving me an error message (on width size of screenshots). I can not crop the screenshots I need to keep posting. Have never received this error message before so maybe it has to do with the recent CM restoration per se. Any advice appreciated!

Spot on!
Since CM moved to a new server I have found that screenshots MUST be 640x480 pixels max - and memory size is probably limited too (?). Before the software re-sized larger ones automatically.
Personally I always use Paint's Stretch & Skew feature to make my shots small enough before posting.

KK

 

[DiamondGeezer]

If you upload them to a Photobucket account they will auto shrink them into the 640 format too.

 

[Nifty29]

Silc - this thread is about Rivals BJ malfunction/cheat/etc, based on incontrovertable proof provided by another (ex)member.

You chimed in with a whole lot of stuff about Dogboy and RTG without any proof at all - just your opinion - which is fine, but it is irrelevant to this thread and it only directing the focus away from the fact that Rival has been caught with their pants down and, possibly, cheating.

As others have said, provide some inkling of evidence beyond the fact you lose all the time etc or personal 'feeling' and you will find many members, including myself, supporting your efforts.

My personal experience with RTG is that Ive had some big wins and big losses, but no more or less than any other time in the past 10 years. In fact, the past 12 months I am slightly ahead with RTG.

Do you still play online Silc? If you do, then why? You seem to sincerely believe all online casinos are cheats, so every penny you spend with any of them just gives your personal opinion less credence.

If you had the courage of your convictions and refused to play anywhere online, and devoted that time to collecting evidence of your claims, then I would be happy to help you out and would support you (and Im sure others would too).

I have to agree however, that it does become tiresome to see the same people accusing casinos of cheating all the time while they continue to deposit and play. If I had a fair idea I was being conned/cheated, there is no way on earth I would be giving them any more of my money!

Anyway....back to the Rival issue......

 

[silcnlayc]

Nifty29 Silc - this thread is about Rivals BJ malfunction/cheat/etc, based on incontrovertable proof provided by another (ex)member.

You chimed in with a whole lot of stuff about Dogboy and RTG without any proof at all - just your opinion - which is fine, but it is irrelevant to this thread and it only directing the focus away from the fact that Rival has been caught with their pants down and, possibly, cheating.

As others have said, provide some inkling of evidence beyond the fact you lose all the time etc or personal 'feeling' and you will find many members, including myself, supporting your efforts.

My personal experience with RTG is that Ive had some big wins and big losses, but no more or less than any other time in the past 10 years. In fact, the past 12 months I am slightly ahead with RTG.

Do you still play online Silc? If you do, then why? You seem to sincerely believe all online casinos are cheats, so every penny you spend with any of them just gives your personal opinion less credence.

If you had the courage of your convictions and refused to play anywhere online, and devoted that time to collecting evidence of your claims, then I would be happy to help you out and would support you (and Im sure others would too).

I have to agree however, that it does become tiresome to see the same people accusing casinos of cheating all the time while they continue to deposit and play. If I had a fair idea I was being conned/cheated, there is no way on earth I would be giving them any more of my money!

Anyway....back to the Rival issue......

You just did what you have accused me of doing with this thread.

.

 

[Nifty29]

You just did what you have accused me of doing with this thread.

.

Upon reflection - yes I did, and I apologise to the membership.

At least I acknowledged it.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

this thread is about Rivals BJ malfunction/cheat/etc, based on incontrovertable proof provided by another (ex)member

Yes, that was the OP's issue but this thread is by no means limited solely to that issue unless of course you do not mind having software that double downs on a pair of 9's or 18, a pair of 8's or 16, and so on when you clicked the split button. And of course, a Dealer's hard 9 always beats the Player's hard 17, yes???