On Probation The Virtual Casino Group and Ace Revenue

[BMWSTACK]

As I mentioned previously in my long recitation, the current terms are something that need to be addressed thoroughly and immediately. Management has already agreed that anything requiring amending, will be dealt with swiftly.



There will be reps here from both Virtual and Ace. Further, I will also be helping out during this initial period of time, as we've all known there would be a high-volume of posts requiring responses. I would expect Bryan and Max to be 'middle men' as little or as much as they would with any other situation.


In the meantime, I'd like to reiterate that there has been NO endorsement made by Bryan, Max or the Casinomeister website, itself. Moving these two companies into Probation is a baby step, much like the baby steps that we've been taking with Virtual and Ace over the past four years. It was brought up that perhaps we should have waited longer for a lengthier track record. How long would be long enough? I'm not being funny or facetious with that question. The truth is that this has been a long, hard road. Is there still room for improvement? Of course there is and without having these public discussions, it's difficult to identify and/or assess these issues. At the same time, rushing to a harsh judgement without being objective is counter-productive for everyone.

What I do know is what I've witnessed over these past four years: An absolute willingness and pro-active movement by management to take whatever reasonable steps necessary to operate responsibly.

If the current terms need to be addressed immediately then why hasn't it been done? You are saying that these "baby steps" have been taking place for 4 years. So if for 4 years they have been trying to get back in everyone's good graces why have these terms not been changed in four years. Working on this for 4 years without changing terms? They sound like a perfect candidate for the US presidency. Its nothing but a PR mission at this point.

I have seen the standard complaints over the past 4 years at various forums. Also the terms of 7-10days for APPROVAL allows a huge opportunity to blow the money back, hence less people having to actually go through the withdrawal process.

Greedy, you are well respected, and obviously have a lot of passion for this. I just don't understand how your putting your reputation on the line over "promises" to change things. I would have expected you to be making these posts when the changes were actually made.

If Virtual had payouts in 48 hours then a 30 day probationary period might sit better with me.

My exact point. I would have taken this news better, and I believe others would have also if new terms were announced.

 

[dunover]

I would summarize by saying a few sentences:

It's a question of degree - it appears we aren't talking about a group that has taken a slight deviation from the path of good customer service , but has for a long period slow-paid and messed players about, if paying at all. In other words people on here are concerned about a group which hasn't simply got to go up a rung or two on the ladder, but needs to work hard just to get on the ladder.

Most are suspicious of their motives, and have witnessed periods much longer than 30 days being applied to new sites which are inherently good from the start, as witnessed by our interaction with their reps on here. This has raised many an eyebrow.

 

[Balthazar]

Why would the same people who were bad for more than a decade suddenly turn good? They found Jesus? Lack of players?

 

[aceking123]

Why would the same people who were bad for more than a decade suddenly turn good? They found Jesus? Lack of players?

easy one that theyve now made enough money for fleecing so many many players they can now afford to go legit for 6 months

i think im going to pop onto one as the crash test dummy so what happens )

 

[BMWSTACK]

You want a good laugh, check out Cool Cat facebook page. You have everything form multiple ND chips voiding winnings to 30+ days to get a check. Mostly the facebook are contests based upon forwarding the Cool Cat information to friends. The best is the write a testimonial contest for free chips.

You have to go through the site to find the complaints, Im not a master at facebook, but I would assume they can also delete complaints?

 

[KasinoKing]

Why would the same people who were bad for more than a decade suddenly turn good? They found Jesus? Lack of players?

The owner needs a new 60ft yacht?

I hope these groups do improve for the benefit of all the players who got suckered in, but personally I will never promote any of their casinos on my sites and I call for other webmasters to boycott them too. Why take the risk - it's not like there is a shortage of decent alternatives out there.

KK

 

[bsilva028]

what i think is that they are loosing more players each day

and i think that like most of the people are avoiding them due to their ridiculuous, to dont say worst, T&C´s, due to their cheats, complaints and much more, they now want to try recover some of the players by putting a "good guys mask".

Personally, i think that they do not recover neither 1 player, neither them, neither any rogue casino, for a "better online gambling world", all the casinos like this ones should have 0 people supporting them, to they completly dissapear from the online gaming.

 

[pobeda]

You want a good laugh, check out Cool Cat facebook page. You have everything form multiple ND chips voiding winnings to 30+ days to get a check. Mostly the facebook are contests based upon forwarding the Cool Cat information to friends. The best is the write a testimonial contest for free chips.

You have to go through the site to find the complaints, Im not a master at facebook, but I would assume they can also delete complaints?

OMG) i just went to check that Facebook page. they don't even bother to remove bad comments lol. No complaints?? That page is gull of them each and every month with most recent in September.

 

[chayton]

huh...it seems the facebook page is a marketing tool - post how great we are on your page for a chance at a free chip. So for a $50 freebie they get some good publicity - most of the comments are people saying how much they love the casino. The only complaints are from people who tried to cash out.

 

[robertslots]

I played at this group of casinos, silver oak, slots of vegas, before I knew any thing about this group, I just closed out my account with these casinos

a few months back and asked each casino to remove my e-mail address from there mailing list. but I still get tons of spam from these guys, they have

sent junk mail to my home address about bonus offers and come back offers, BUT THE WORST THEY CALL ME EVERY FRIDAY at my home phone

with a recorded massage about bonus offers, and this is every Friday , I can set my watch by it, Ill get one today later. what a joke.

 

[dionysus]

I played at this group of casinos, silver oak, slots of vegas, before I knew any thing about this group, I just closed out my account with these casinos

a few months back and asked each casino to remove my e-mail address from there mailing list. but I still get tons of spam from these guys, they have

sent junk mail to my home address about bonus offers and come back offers, BUT THE WORST THEY CALL ME EVERY FRIDAY at my home phone

with a recorded massage about bonus offers, and this is every Friday , I can set my watch by it, Ill get one today later. what a joke.

For a recorded massage, I'd have to pay $3.99 a minute...lucky dog

 

[same_old]

What about the most famous case at casinomeister and the Vrtual Group. I'm sure some of you remember "Mark" I think it was who opened an account here on behalf of the Virtual group to sort out any outstanding issues. We then remember "acepedro" I think his name was. The Virtual group owed him OVER $100K in winnings, Acepedro had all the screenshots and all the proof he needed to show that this casino DID indeed kowe him this money. He tried for years and years to get even a portion of this money with no luck. I recall Mark taking on his case buy I'm not even sure if Acepedro saw any of that money.
After all of this Bryan became a little upset that Mark was working through his website to try and resolve these issues thorugh his website ( which I can understand as they were badly rouged.

Also, I'm sure Bryan can tell you of the horror stories from that place. They even tried to invite Bryan over that way- and this wasn't for business or anything- they wanted to bury him ( no joke)

Guy's do a search on here for the virtual group and you will see some horror stories. One player who went to the Virtual offices to be followed home by security guards and beat up. Another one was the past manager who liked to rule his staff with an iron fist and a hand gun. If he got upset he would shoot the computer next to you or something to that affect. This outfit acted like a Mafia type organisation and I personally don't think ALL that much may have changed.

I mean only two complaints over a year isn't exactly much to go on- I mean how many customers do they even have nowdays, I bet no where near as much as other casino's. Personally anyone who has been in the online gaming scene for the last 10 years knows exactly what this group is about and we would NEVER touch them again.

 

[maphesto]

@same_old:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/club-player-issue-finally-solved.38780/

We never found out how much money he received.

And look what I found when I searched for the other thread :

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/martydavis-vs-acepedro-overdue-payments.38841/

 

[Balthazar]

THEY CALL ME EVERY FRIDAY at my home phone with a recorded massage about bonus offers

Assuming that you meant "message" and not "massage", that behaviour alone is rogue pit worthy. I'd raise hell if that happened to me.

 

[MisterBJ]

The owner needs a new 60ft yacht?

I hope these groups do improve for the benefit of all the players who got suckered in, but personally I will never promote any of their casinos on my sites and I call for other webmasters to boycott them too. Why take the risk - it's not like there is a shortage of decent alternatives out there.

KK

Who knows? Maybe they will eventually work their way from Probation to Baptism by Fire. Nothing surprises me anymore. But one thing I do know is Trust no one. I will be boycotting them too...

 

[chuchu59]

Who knows? Maybe they will eventually work their way from Probation to Baptism by Fire. Nothing surprises me anymore. But one thing I do know is Trust no one. I will be boycotting them too...

If hat day arrives members will leave the forum in droves. Needless to say, I shall say au revoir too.

 

[dionysus]

Well, noone suggested BBF in any short order. And if that days comes, do we not trust that the procedures we're all familiar with have been followed? Leopards DO change their spots - it's called evolution.

Players change, terms change, management changes. A lot of us have been here long enough that in the end, we have to trust that Max and Bryan do the right thing, and they don't move blindly. They listen to our feedback, take it with a grain of salt, make good choices - I mean, after all, the forum works, we're still all here. Why are we pre-judging before the fact?

Do we look for our interests? Yes. As friends of Bryan, do we look for his? Yes.
But hasnt he earned the benefit of the doubt that this isnt willy-nilly, he's been around the block more than bloody marathon players.
I hold reservation. It can't hurt to see how they perform, what they do, follow along, and STILL provide feedback along the way.
I'm not saying I endorse the casino. I'm saying I endorse CM.

 

[same_old]

Well, noone suggested BBF in any short order. And if that days comes, do we not trust that the procedures we're all familiar with have been followed? Leopards DO change their spots - it's called evolution.

Players change, terms change, management changes. A lot of us have been here long enough that in the end, we have to trust that Max and Bryan do the right thing, and they don't move blindly. They listen to our feedback, take it with a grain of salt, make good choices - I mean, after all, the forum works, we're still all here. Why are we pre-judging before the fact?

Do we look for our interests? Yes. As friends of Bryan, do we look for his? Yes.
But hasnt he earned the benefit of the doubt that this isnt willy-nilly, he's been around the block more than bloody marathon players.
I hold reservation. It can't hurt to see how they perform, what they do, follow along, and STILL provide feedback along the way.
I'm not saying I endorse the casino. I'm saying I endorse CM.

Hey don't get me wrong, I said the exact same thing as you have the first time we gave them another shot, and a second- sorry third time I would be an idiot.As Bryan has stated he has been taking to the CEO for the last 10 years so there is some things that are the same.

 

[dionysus]

Yes, but Bryan isn't saying anything to the effect toward accreditation, baptism, etc...merely the CHANCE to move from the rogue pit...they could fail. They could pass and sit in 'not recommended' for eternity. Hell, they could sell, f* up, or pass with flying colours. That's rather the point - to see WHAT they do. They aren't being given a free pass.

Once bitten, twice shy...fool me once, shame on you, twice, shame on me...w/e cliche you like. He's simply saying, 'ok, show me what you got - prove the members wrong, me wrong, and well, if we were right all along, all right, there's the door'....it's CM saying 'we won't spray you with the hose from the porch, but we ain't letting you in either'

Probation means, you did your time, you're allowed out POTENTIALLY and with terms.....or back in you go, toot sweet

 

[ChillBill]

I, greedygirl, and Max have both shown you the evidence: the lack of complaints going back a few years. I've also implied that you can look for yourself. Show me the unresolved complaints posted in this forum for the past two, three - four years.

I don't see anyone doubting the authenticity of this information. What I do see though, are members concerned with the possible ramifications if these casino groups are discharged from their current position. These strong feelings of objection, seem to stem from, numerous incidents spanning more than decade where both these groups and their casinos have repeatedly broken their word, not only by stiffing players but also breaking untold promises to this site.

If the three strike rule was enforce here, they'd be in the pit till hell freezes over and then some. I doubt many, if any CM members, will risk playing at these casinos. But, this site is not just accessible by members. The rogue pit right through to accredited casinos are there for all to see and use. If past "evidence" is anything to go on, imo members are clearly concerned newbies visiting the CM site, could well become the next wave of players stiffed.

Hindsight can be a powerful combatant against repeatedly offending wrong-doers.

 

[MisterBJ]

I don't see anyone doubting the authenticity of this information. What I do see though, are members concerned with the possible ramifications if these casino groups are discharged from their current position. These strong feelings of objection, seem to stem from, numerous incidents spanning more than decade where both these groups and their casinos have repeatedly broken their word, not only by stiffing players but also breaking untold promises to this site.

If the three strike rule was enforce here, they'd be in the pit till hell freezes over and then some. I doubt many, if any CM members, will risk playing at these casinos. But, this site is not just accessible by members. The rogue pit right through to accredited casinos are there for all to see and use. If past "evidence" is anything to go on, imo members are clearly concerned newbies visiting the CM site, could well become the next wave of players stiffed.

Hindsight can be a powerful combatant against repeatedly offending wrong-doers.

WELL SAID!!!

 

[anniemac]

I also get a call every Friday from Silver Oak, offering me a huge bonus to deposit.

What is so stupid about them calling me is that when I finally got paid, I closed my account (or thought I had) and let's just say that cordiality wasn't my strong suit after so many weeks of dealing with them.

That doesn't count all the spam emails from POC, Silver Oak, Slots Jungle etc. that I get every week.

 

[BMWSTACK]

Yes, but Bryan isn't saying anything to the effect toward accreditation, baptism, etc...merely the CHANCE to move from the rogue pit...they could fail. They could pass and sit in 'not recommended' for eternity. Hell, they could sell, f* up, or pass with flying colours. That's rather the point - to see WHAT they do. They aren't being given a free pass.

Once bitten, twice shy...fool me once, shame on you, twice, shame on me...w/e cliche you like. He's simply saying, 'ok, show me what you got - prove the members wrong, me wrong, and well, if we were right all along, all right, there's the door'....it's CM saying 'we won't spray you with the hose from the porch, but we ain't letting you in either'

Probation means, you did your time, you're allowed out POTENTIALLY and with terms.....or back in you go, toot sweet

The part where you say "to see what they do" there is already plenty of information out there to show what they are CURRENTLY doing. Just go do some general research on the web. There are plenty of standard complaints recently. In the last 2 minutes I found one where someone had been fighting since April until recently to get paid. This person wasn't considered a fraudster, and was just getting the general run around. There are plenty of other complaints you can find that shows nothing has changed.

If past "evidence" is anything to go on, imo members are clearly concerned newbies visiting the CM site, could well become the next wave of players stiffed.

.

I agree 100%. We are a great group here and everyone always seems to look out for and put information out there that protects Members and Newbies. This is the reason why we frown upon screenshots from rogues, and that is why we bash the rogue casinos when mentioned in threads.

Yes indeed seeing "Probation Cool Cat", could definitely drive somebody browsing the web to go deposit there. Yes indeed it would be mostly there own fault because if you read the thread I am sure there are enough comments on the first page alone to make you reconsider. Hopefully they go look at the terms on the website first and see the:

10-15 business days for approval 7-10 business days for processing, with possible extra time because processor problems happen.

 

[Sovietsky]

Hey don't get me wrong, I said the exact same thing as you have the first time we gave them another shot, and a second- sorry third time I would be an idiot.As Bryan has stated he has been taking to the CEO for the last 10 years so there is some things that are the same.

I was wondering how many shots can one give them? 5,10 or more?

Let's say CM give them another chance and they screw up, then they can come back 5 years later and do the same thing. The one losing would be CM.

 

[Casinomeister]

I've read a lot of the comments here and it's fair to say this has become a very evocative subject!

I would like the membership to understand that I feel slightly caught between a rock and a hard place here in that I want operators to realize that if they make concerted and successful efforts to clean up their act over an extended period, that there is a route out of "roguedom". To re-iterate once again this is not accreditation or recommendation at all. Simply a switch from "Rogue" status to "With reservations", accompanied as usual by the reasons.

My philosophy here is that a casino who is aware of it's responsibilities and is making that effort is far better for the player as a whole. In fact, I think it is very important to try and persuade a bad casino that there are benefits to reform rather than simply rogue them and ignore them.

Clearly in this instance, we are dealing with a company that really do evoke a lot of emotion and it is absolutely 100% understandable that many will be skeptical of their ability to reform. I've therefore decided that a reasonable compromise would be to extend the probationary period from my initial and perhaps somewhat ambitious 30 days to 6 months and, at the end of that, ask the members here to vote on the issue: fully registered members and up.

Who knows? Maybe they will eventually work their way from Probation to Baptism by Fire. Nothing surprises me anymore. But one thing I do know is Trust no one. I will be boycotting them too...

Would you please knock off this crap? Thank you.