On Probation The Virtual Casino Group and Ace Revenue

[buggars]

Hey guys , haven't commented here in quite a while but! I use to deposit at club player all the time . I had no problem getting paid when I won. One day I went to log in and my account had been locked and I haven't played at any of them for a long time . After seeing this I'm gonna see if the problem can be resolved and try depositing again.

Good Luck
buggars

 

[The Dude]

Feel like I'm waking into the lion's den holding a tunafish sandwich.

What I'm doing here is being as objective as possible. The Rogue pit is not a form of punishment - it's a way to get casinos to square themselves away, to improve their management, operations, and customer support so that they can avoid being a rogue-like business venture. If you have read my statement on the Virtual Casino group's probation section, you'd understand a bit more where I'm coming from.

https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/virtual-casino-group/

With all due respect. Meister you can't be serious? Honestly there is enough casinos to choose from the accredited list. I don't think you have to keep this probation thingy going. All of these casinos listed above. Has at least 2 month processing time for withdrawals. Why don't you just allow the members here to vote. And let us decide whether they should be on probation or not. I think we all know what the answer would be. I'm sorry Bryan but you are wrong on this one.

This has nothing to do with an accreditation - there are no plans to bring them on board at all. This is a process to make the rogue section more viable - and more realistic. And it is in a way a form of voting. We can see for ourselves how many valid complaints come in and how they are dealt with and go from there.

Well it's hardly surprising they only generated one PAB - in fact I'm surprised there was even one!
I thought the PAB rules stated that PABs were not allowed against rogue casinos...

We've made it clear several times that we accept complaints for Ace Revenue and the Virtual Group. Both properties have reps on board who have probably been taking care of issues behind the scenes. We also have a complaints forum where many many players post their complaints - and if you look at that objectively, you'll see that there are relatively few complaints concerning these properties. Whether or not a casino is in the rogue pit doesn't stop people from complaining about them.

...P.S. Will the accreditation attempt mean those on here whom have historical issues of no-pay will be paid??

Absolutely - if they have a valid complaint, they will be squared away. This is one of the main reasons why we have the probation set up - to prompt players and webmasters to get the word out.

 

[MisterBJ]

All we are saying Bryan is LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE. Forget them, we are happy here as things are. Honestly when I woke up and saw this, I HAD A FIT!!!

 

[The Dude]

Some of you seem to be confusing this "probation" period with either a Baptism by Fire or Accreditation. This is primarily a way to prompt players to bring on their complaints. For the past two years, we've made it clear that we'd take on PABs for both Ace Revenue and the Virtual Casino group. So far there have been a total of about three. Even so, there have not been complaints as of late in our forum, and if anyone has any valid issues, bring them on. Now is a ripe time to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the casino group. I am explaining the process of probation at Casinomeister. When the probation period is over, I would expect the casino to either be back in the rogue pit or in our reservations section here. The reservations section explains the reasons why a casino is neither rogue nor accredited. You will find many ex-rogues in there, and a few ex-accredited ones as well.

 

[The Dude]

All we are saying Bryan is LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE. Forget them, we are happy here as things are. Honestly when I woke up and saw this, I HAD A FIT!!!

Why would you have a fit? I really don't understand. The roguish issues that these casinos were involved with happened 5-10 years ago - and longer. You've been a member for less than a year.

What I'm getting at is that some players are not looking at this objectively. We have given the Virtual group two or three shots at this in the past. The last time was around four years ago. For the past two years, it's been relatively quiet. So why get upset? I could find many other things to have fits about.

 

[Googobucs]

From Slot Madness:

10.The Company reserves the right to cancel your account for any reason whatsoever at any time without notice to you. Any balance in your account at the time of such cancellation may be credited to you, however, the Company reserves the right, in its unfettered discretion, to void any winnings and confiscate any balance in your Casino account in any circumstances including:
1.If there is evidence to suggest that you have more than one active account for the Casino;
2.If the name on your Casino account does not match the name on the credit card(s) used to make deposits on your Casino account;
3.If you participate in a Casino promotion and cash-in before fulfilling the requirements of that particular promotion;
4.If you provide incorrect or misleading registration, account or identification information;
5.If you are not of legal age;
6.If you reside in a jurisdiction where participation in the Game is prohibited by law;
7.If you have allowed or permitted (intentionally or unintentionally) someone else to play on your Casino account;
8.If you have not played at the Casino on an individual basis for personal entertainment only (that is, you have played in a professional sense or in concert with other player(s) as part of a club, group, etc.);
9.If you are found cheating or if it is determined by the Company that you have employed or made use of a system (including machines, computers, software or other automated systems) designed specifically to defeat the Casino;
10.If you have been designated as a bonus abuser, playing no or low-risk strategies in order to withdraw promotional money;
If the Company should become aware that you have played at any other on-line casino under any of the circumstances set out at I) to X) above

Predatory terms that gives them the right to close your account and take your winnings IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

 

[chayton]

I mean, they are (were) the worst spammers out there, they invented PHONESPAM for gawd sake.
How many people had to change their phonenumber in the past because they got called 3 times a day with stupid bonusoffers? And it was a tape, so you could not even shout at the guy (forgot his name, I'm sure Chayton knows).

Yeah, it was that canned spam recorded message, used to drive me bonkers...funny when Marty was here on the forum he called me, I asked him to get off the phone spam list, I said it was driving me crazy having all these messages, "Hi this is Chris DiAngelo...." he said hang on a second and hands the phone to Chris DiAngelo in person - he said "Hi, this is Chris DiAngelo...." Believe it or not I was completely lost for words for a second, then we all had a good laugh, he promised to take me off the list and I haven't been called since.

 

[greedygirl]

I knew there'd be plenty of posts regarding Bryan's decision to move these companies out of the Rogue section and into Probationary status.

I'd like to shed some light by providing some important information that most have not been privy to, regarding Virtual and Ace. While it may not address all concerns (and those concerns will be addressed), I believe it will help you to get a better picture on the current situation involving these two companies. All I ask is that you look at things objectively. :notworthy

https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/virtual-casino-group/

 

[bonustreak]

Greedy gotta love that voice of reason you always instill

 

[pobeda]

just my 2c
i would never play there even if all of a sudden they would be accredited. memories still fresh

However, out of curiosity, i went to CoolCat live chat and asked how long it will take to withdraw.
here is response (ridiculous by any means)
The time frame for withdrawals is 7-10 business days to be approved and 10-14 business days to be sent, plus the delivery time, which may vary according to processors limitations.

how this going to help them attract customers??

and I do know that withdrawal times has nothing to do with probation. like i said, just my 2c

 

[EdieD]

At present, no. But what's next, "Baptism by Fire"???

What's next you say? Probably Rome casino will be on recommended list.

 

[The Dude]

What's next you say? Probably Rome casino will be on recommended list.

That's bullshit. Don't be a troll.

 

[The Dude]

just my 2c
i would never play there even if all of a sudden they would be accredited. memories still fresh...

C'mon people. No one has said anything about being accredited.

 

[The Dude]

I've merged both Ace Revenue and Virtual Casino threads into this one since they are both related.

 

[EdieD]

I'm a troll but everybody else who replied to this thread doesn't agree with your decision and provided details of just how bad the policies are at these casinos you've put on probation. The facts are supplied directly on their website. If their guidelines, policies and operating procedures changed drastically to improve the quality of their business, it may restore some credibility. There is no evidence to support this nor any reason to upgrade them and indirectly encourage people to play there.

 

[The Dude]

I'm a troll but everybody else who replied to this thread doesn't agree with your decision and provided details of just how bad the policies are at these casinos you've put on probation. The facts are supplied directly on their website. If their guidelines, policies and operating procedures changed drastically to improve the quality of their business, it may restore some credibility. There is no evidence to support this nor any reason to upgrade them and indirectly encourage people to play there.

You're applying selective reading in this case. No evidence? Yet I, greedygirl, and Max have both shown you the evidence: the lack of complaints going back a few years. I've also implied that you can look for yourself. Show me the unresolved complaints posted in this forum for the past two, three - four years.

You want them to change their terms and conditions? I'll bet you they change them. That's why we have open forms of communication. The only thing I'm encouraging is to remain objective. Seems like a number of people are having a difficult time of doing that.

 

[BMWSTACK]

Some of you seem to be confusing this "probation" period with either a Baptism by Fire or Accreditation. This is primarily a way to prompt players to bring on their complaints. For the past two years, we've made it clear that we'd take on PABs for both Ace Revenue and the Virtual Casino group. So far there have been a total of about three. Even so, there have not been complaints as of late in our forum, and if anyone has any valid issues, bring them on. Now is a ripe time to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the casino group. I am explaining the process of probation at Casinomeister. When the probation period is over, I would expect the casino to either be back in the rogue pit or in our reservations section here. The reservations section explains the reasons why a casino is neither rogue nor accredited. You will find many ex-rogues in there, and a few ex-accredited ones as well.

This is an extremely solid forum. This forum surpasses any other casino forum out there in terms of traffic and information. I constantly speak to the fact that this is the most "real" forum you will ever find. The members are smart and the forum holds itself to the highest standards. I constantly brag that you won't find members posting screenshots, or getting excited playing shady casinos. I do view other forums, but most other forums are based upon members mostly playing and speaking of less than reputable casinos. I have racked my brain trying to figure out how his ridiculousness takes place at these other places and have just chalked it up to the members 1) needing to get a gambling fix no matter the cost 2) plain ignorance.

So with that being said, I would assume that CM not seeing many complaints has to do with the level of its members. Just like we do not see screenshots of rogues, I wouldn't expect a lot of complaints to be launched. Even new members can do a few searches here, and would quickly find that complaints on rogues are not really looked at with compassion.

I understand that you are saying that probation is a way to bring complaints about. Hopefully members here have not made tht decision to play there, and yes the public announcement may bring new members to come and launch a complaint, but ultimately any exposure is good exposure to this group. Just having their name in the headlines whether good or bad is a win for them. I personally do not believe that they deserve to have their name publicized in any context, especially with these still ridiculous terms that have been posted in this thread, such as long approval of withdrawals. I could possibly see a mention if they have changed terms and made a commitment to stick to them, but all I have seen is general political rants.

I am still surprised at this move regardless of the substantiation. It does not change my opinion of this being he best forum, I just want to see the continued standards that has made CM the place it is.

 

[chuchu59]

Bryan,

I do hope that you ponder over the issue carefully before arriving at a decision to remove them from the pit. They have fooled you many times before and on each occasion promising you they have turned over a new leaf yet reverting back to their roguish ways once some players hit big. I cannot see how they are likely to be different this time around. The absence of complaints means nothing because as KK pointed out, nobody can PAB against rogues. If you really believe they deserve a final chance impose harsh conditions eg longer probation period before depitifying them. I don't want you to be fooled again. For many players its a case of once bitten twice shy and they have bitten many times.

 

[LHofsdal]

I do have an open mind, and am willing to see how this all plays out. But you know how the saying goes...Been there, done that....

As players, we can only stand up for one another, and look out for other players. This is not new to anyone, we have all seen them "turn over a new leaf" or try to. This is not the first time they tried and failed. One can not blame us for being overly cautious when it comes to this group.

Before I found CM I did play at Club Player casino, and actually cashed out a few times, it took approx. 3 weeks for each cashout, but I did get paid. It also took alot of hounding through phone calls and e-mails. It has now been atleast 3 years since I have played at any casino in this group. Is the withdrawl process going to change? Is it still going to be 10 days before it is even processed and another 10 days to be sent?

With any luck, this group will improve, and not fail again. But only time will tell. Is there a rep that going to be joining CM to handle players questions and complaints? Or is the group going to be using you, Bryan, or Max as the middle man? I know on other forums a nice lady named Cindy is the rep, and she does try to do her best in handling complaints, but the complaints are still being posted.

I can only speak for myself, but I am willing to see how this all pans out, in the long term, not just 30 days. Time my heal wounds, but does not make people forget about them. And with the long history this group has, it is going to a very long time for them to prove themselves, for me anyway.

LH

 

[greedygirl]

It's been a very long day and while I'd like to reply to much of what's been brought up, sleep is what's foremost on my agenda. Before I hit the sheets, there are just a couple quick bits, for now...

As I mentioned previously in my long recitation, the current terms are something that need to be addressed thoroughly and immediately. Management has already agreed that anything requiring amending, will be dealt with swiftly.

Is there a rep that going to be joining CM to handle players questions and complaints? Or is the group going to be using you, Bryan, or Max as the middle man?

There will be reps here from both Virtual and Ace. Further, I will also be helping out during this initial period of time, as we've all known there would be a high-volume of posts requiring responses. I would expect Bryan and Max to be 'middle men' as little or as much as they would with any other situation.

In the morning, I'll be responding to the bulk of the concerns being discussed.

In the meantime, I'd like to reiterate that there has been NO endorsement made by Bryan, Max or the Casinomeister website, itself. Moving these two companies into Probation is a baby step, much like the baby steps that we've been taking with Virtual and Ace over the past four years. It was brought up that perhaps we should have waited longer for a lengthier track record. How long would be long enough? I'm not being funny or facetious with that question. The truth is that this has been a long, hard road. Is there still room for improvement? Of course there is and without having these public discussions, it's difficult to identify and/or assess these issues. At the same time, rushing to a harsh judgement without being objective is counter-productive for everyone.

What I do know is what I've witnessed over these past four years: An absolute willingness and pro-active movement by management to take whatever reasonable steps necessary to operate responsibly.

And now I must get some beauty sleep (no jokes about hibernation, dammit!).

 

[jetset]

When a company has "turned over a new leaf" as many times as Virtual has, it's understandable that players will remain sceptical...and they have every right to be so, given that at the end of the day it is their money that is at risk if yet another promise of reform is dishonoured by this notorious operator.

Virtual's management has reportedly been in a number of scrapes during its history - some of them pretty unsavoury and a little scary, and going beyond the obvious operational sins of screwing players over, slow-pays and conduct that has in the past shown a general lack of respect for the player community.

Either the management has experienced a dramatic epiphany, or the sins of the past came home to roost with such force in terms of player stay-aways that a change in operational conduct had to be made.

Or, as some have pointed out, it may be just another resort to an insincere quick-fix as was apparently the case in past resolutions to change.

Either way, players face potential risk when an operator with such a bad reputation is presented by a trusted source as reformed and potentially safe to frequent.

Bryan and his colleagues have decided that Virtual is worth giving another opportunity at Casinomeister, and that is his right as the owner of this highly respected information site, regardless of whether members like it or not.

But we should all remember the fundamental fact that operators too often forget - players and where they decide to place their business is the ultimate key to success.

Like others here I remain sceptical and believe that a thirty day probationary period for a group like Virtual is not nearly sufficient under these extraordinary circumstances.

I would suggest that we wait to see if these suggested T&C changes are made, and perhaps pause a little longer on the probabtionary period to ensure that there has been a genuine change in player treatment by a management that truly seeks to at last become professional, integrity-driven and consequently more successful.

 

[anniemac]

I chased Silver Oak for 6 weeks over $75. Of course, that was several years ago so maybe they had an epiphany and have seen the light.

However, as far as I am concerned, you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

Would not touch anyone of these casinos with a 10 foot pole.

 

[chayton]

New leaf or not, I can't see too many players flocking to play there with those lengthy payout times. Remember how everyone raised a stink here about JPC and their 48 hour pending period? And they're a trustworthy and reliable group - personally I love them but even I have been playing at places where I get paid quicker.

If Virtual had payouts in 48 hours then a 30 day probationary period might sit better with me.

 

[MisterBJ]

IMHO, they will come in and do right for a short while. Get the gambling community to think they have turned over a new leaf, like in the past. Afterwards turn back to their old ways, and have enough steam to run for 8 more years. Luckily Americans are over ran with plenty other RTG to choose from.

 

[MisterBJ]

I chased Silver Oak for 6 weeks over $75. Of course, that was several years ago so maybe they had an epiphany and have seen the light.

However, as far as I am concerned, you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

Would not touch anyone of these casinos with a 10 foot pole.

Maybe its April Fools in November here at Meisterland

 

[BMWSTACK]

As I mentioned previously in my long recitation, the current terms are something that need to be addressed thoroughly and immediately. Management has already agreed that anything requiring amending, will be dealt with swiftly.



There will be reps here from both Virtual and Ace. Further, I will also be helping out during this initial period of time, as we've all known there would be a high-volume of posts requiring responses. I would expect Bryan and Max to be 'middle men' as little or as much as they would with any other situation.


In the meantime, I'd like to reiterate that there has been NO endorsement made by Bryan, Max or the Casinomeister website, itself. Moving these two companies into Probation is a baby step, much like the baby steps that we've been taking with Virtual and Ace over the past four years. It was brought up that perhaps we should have waited longer for a lengthier track record. How long would be long enough? I'm not being funny or facetious with that question. The truth is that this has been a long, hard road. Is there still room for improvement? Of course there is and without having these public discussions, it's difficult to identify and/or assess these issues. At the same time, rushing to a harsh judgement without being objective is counter-productive for everyone.

What I do know is what I've witnessed over these past four years: An absolute willingness and pro-active movement by management to take whatever reasonable steps necessary to operate responsibly.

If the current terms need to be addressed immediately then why hasn't it been done? You are saying that these "baby steps" have been taking place for 4 years. So if for 4 years they have been trying to get back in everyone's good graces why have these terms not been changed in four years. Working on this for 4 years without changing terms? They sound like a perfect candidate for the US presidency. Its nothing but a PR mission at this point.

I have seen the standard complaints over the past 4 years at various forums. Also the terms of 7-10days for APPROVAL allows a huge opportunity to blow the money back, hence less people having to actually go through the withdrawal process.

Greedy, you are well respected, and obviously have a lot of passion for this. I just don't understand how your putting your reputation on the line over "promises" to change things. I would have expected you to be making these posts when the changes were actually made.

If Virtual had payouts in 48 hours then a 30 day probationary period might sit better with me.

My exact point. I would have taken this news better, and I believe others would have also if new terms were announced.

 

[dunover]

I would summarize by saying a few sentences:

It's a question of degree - it appears we aren't talking about a group that has taken a slight deviation from the path of good customer service , but has for a long period slow-paid and messed players about, if paying at all. In other words people on here are concerned about a group which hasn't simply got to go up a rung or two on the ladder, but needs to work hard just to get on the ladder.

Most are suspicious of their motives, and have witnessed periods much longer than 30 days being applied to new sites which are inherently good from the start, as witnessed by our interaction with their reps on here. This has raised many an eyebrow.

 

[Balthazar]

Why would the same people who were bad for more than a decade suddenly turn good? They found Jesus? Lack of players?

 

[aceking123]

Why would the same people who were bad for more than a decade suddenly turn good? They found Jesus? Lack of players?

easy one that theyve now made enough money for fleecing so many many players they can now afford to go legit for 6 months

i think im going to pop onto one as the crash test dummy so what happens )

 

[BMWSTACK]

You want a good laugh, check out Cool Cat facebook page. You have everything form multiple ND chips voiding winnings to 30+ days to get a check. Mostly the facebook are contests based upon forwarding the Cool Cat information to friends. The best is the write a testimonial contest for free chips.

You have to go through the site to find the complaints, Im not a master at facebook, but I would assume they can also delete complaints?

 

[KasinoKing]

Why would the same people who were bad for more than a decade suddenly turn good? They found Jesus? Lack of players?

The owner needs a new 60ft yacht?

I hope these groups do improve for the benefit of all the players who got suckered in, but personally I will never promote any of their casinos on my sites and I call for other webmasters to boycott them too. Why take the risk - it's not like there is a shortage of decent alternatives out there.

KK

 

[bsilva028]

what i think is that they are loosing more players each day

and i think that like most of the people are avoiding them due to their ridiculuous, to dont say worst, T&C´s, due to their cheats, complaints and much more, they now want to try recover some of the players by putting a "good guys mask".

Personally, i think that they do not recover neither 1 player, neither them, neither any rogue casino, for a "better online gambling world", all the casinos like this ones should have 0 people supporting them, to they completly dissapear from the online gaming.

 

[pobeda]

You want a good laugh, check out Cool Cat facebook page. You have everything form multiple ND chips voiding winnings to 30+ days to get a check. Mostly the facebook are contests based upon forwarding the Cool Cat information to friends. The best is the write a testimonial contest for free chips.

You have to go through the site to find the complaints, Im not a master at facebook, but I would assume they can also delete complaints?

OMG) i just went to check that Facebook page. they don't even bother to remove bad comments lol. No complaints?? That page is gull of them each and every month with most recent in September.

 

[chayton]

huh...it seems the facebook page is a marketing tool - post how great we are on your page for a chance at a free chip. So for a $50 freebie they get some good publicity - most of the comments are people saying how much they love the casino. The only complaints are from people who tried to cash out.

 

[robertslots]

I played at this group of casinos, silver oak, slots of vegas, before I knew any thing about this group, I just closed out my account with these casinos

a few months back and asked each casino to remove my e-mail address from there mailing list. but I still get tons of spam from these guys, they have

sent junk mail to my home address about bonus offers and come back offers, BUT THE WORST THEY CALL ME EVERY FRIDAY at my home phone

with a recorded massage about bonus offers, and this is every Friday , I can set my watch by it, Ill get one today later. what a joke.

 

[dionysus]

I played at this group of casinos, silver oak, slots of vegas, before I knew any thing about this group, I just closed out my account with these casinos

a few months back and asked each casino to remove my e-mail address from there mailing list. but I still get tons of spam from these guys, they have

sent junk mail to my home address about bonus offers and come back offers, BUT THE WORST THEY CALL ME EVERY FRIDAY at my home phone

with a recorded massage about bonus offers, and this is every Friday , I can set my watch by it, Ill get one today later. what a joke.

For a recorded massage, I'd have to pay $3.99 a minute...lucky dog

 

[same_old]

What about the most famous case at casinomeister and the Vrtual Group. I'm sure some of you remember "Mark" I think it was who opened an account here on behalf of the Virtual group to sort out any outstanding issues. We then remember "acepedro" I think his name was. The Virtual group owed him OVER $100K in winnings, Acepedro had all the screenshots and all the proof he needed to show that this casino DID indeed kowe him this money. He tried for years and years to get even a portion of this money with no luck. I recall Mark taking on his case buy I'm not even sure if Acepedro saw any of that money.
After all of this Bryan became a little upset that Mark was working through his website to try and resolve these issues thorugh his website ( which I can understand as they were badly rouged.

Also, I'm sure Bryan can tell you of the horror stories from that place. They even tried to invite Bryan over that way- and this wasn't for business or anything- they wanted to bury him ( no joke)

Guy's do a search on here for the virtual group and you will see some horror stories. One player who went to the Virtual offices to be followed home by security guards and beat up. Another one was the past manager who liked to rule his staff with an iron fist and a hand gun. If he got upset he would shoot the computer next to you or something to that affect. This outfit acted like a Mafia type organisation and I personally don't think ALL that much may have changed.

I mean only two complaints over a year isn't exactly much to go on- I mean how many customers do they even have nowdays, I bet no where near as much as other casino's. Personally anyone who has been in the online gaming scene for the last 10 years knows exactly what this group is about and we would NEVER touch them again.

 

[maphesto]

@same_old:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/club-player-issue-finally-solved.38780/

We never found out how much money he received.

And look what I found when I searched for the other thread :

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/martydavis-vs-acepedro-overdue-payments.38841/

 

[Balthazar]

THEY CALL ME EVERY FRIDAY at my home phone with a recorded massage about bonus offers

Assuming that you meant "message" and not "massage", that behaviour alone is rogue pit worthy. I'd raise hell if that happened to me.

 

[MisterBJ]

The owner needs a new 60ft yacht?

I hope these groups do improve for the benefit of all the players who got suckered in, but personally I will never promote any of their casinos on my sites and I call for other webmasters to boycott them too. Why take the risk - it's not like there is a shortage of decent alternatives out there.

KK

Who knows? Maybe they will eventually work their way from Probation to Baptism by Fire. Nothing surprises me anymore. But one thing I do know is Trust no one. I will be boycotting them too...

 

[chuchu59]

Who knows? Maybe they will eventually work their way from Probation to Baptism by Fire. Nothing surprises me anymore. But one thing I do know is Trust no one. I will be boycotting them too...

If hat day arrives members will leave the forum in droves. Needless to say, I shall say au revoir too.

 

[dionysus]

Well, noone suggested BBF in any short order. And if that days comes, do we not trust that the procedures we're all familiar with have been followed? Leopards DO change their spots - it's called evolution.

Players change, terms change, management changes. A lot of us have been here long enough that in the end, we have to trust that Max and Bryan do the right thing, and they don't move blindly. They listen to our feedback, take it with a grain of salt, make good choices - I mean, after all, the forum works, we're still all here. Why are we pre-judging before the fact?

Do we look for our interests? Yes. As friends of Bryan, do we look for his? Yes.
But hasnt he earned the benefit of the doubt that this isnt willy-nilly, he's been around the block more than bloody marathon players.
I hold reservation. It can't hurt to see how they perform, what they do, follow along, and STILL provide feedback along the way.
I'm not saying I endorse the casino. I'm saying I endorse CM.

 

[same_old]

Well, noone suggested BBF in any short order. And if that days comes, do we not trust that the procedures we're all familiar with have been followed? Leopards DO change their spots - it's called evolution.

Players change, terms change, management changes. A lot of us have been here long enough that in the end, we have to trust that Max and Bryan do the right thing, and they don't move blindly. They listen to our feedback, take it with a grain of salt, make good choices - I mean, after all, the forum works, we're still all here. Why are we pre-judging before the fact?

Do we look for our interests? Yes. As friends of Bryan, do we look for his? Yes.
But hasnt he earned the benefit of the doubt that this isnt willy-nilly, he's been around the block more than bloody marathon players.
I hold reservation. It can't hurt to see how they perform, what they do, follow along, and STILL provide feedback along the way.
I'm not saying I endorse the casino. I'm saying I endorse CM.

Hey don't get me wrong, I said the exact same thing as you have the first time we gave them another shot, and a second- sorry third time I would be an idiot.As Bryan has stated he has been taking to the CEO for the last 10 years so there is some things that are the same.

 

[dionysus]

Yes, but Bryan isn't saying anything to the effect toward accreditation, baptism, etc...merely the CHANCE to move from the rogue pit...they could fail. They could pass and sit in 'not recommended' for eternity. Hell, they could sell, f* up, or pass with flying colours. That's rather the point - to see WHAT they do. They aren't being given a free pass.

Once bitten, twice shy...fool me once, shame on you, twice, shame on me...w/e cliche you like. He's simply saying, 'ok, show me what you got - prove the members wrong, me wrong, and well, if we were right all along, all right, there's the door'....it's CM saying 'we won't spray you with the hose from the porch, but we ain't letting you in either'

Probation means, you did your time, you're allowed out POTENTIALLY and with terms.....or back in you go, toot sweet

 

[ChillBill]

I, greedygirl, and Max have both shown you the evidence: the lack of complaints going back a few years. I've also implied that you can look for yourself. Show me the unresolved complaints posted in this forum for the past two, three - four years.

I don't see anyone doubting the authenticity of this information. What I do see though, are members concerned with the possible ramifications if these casino groups are discharged from their current position. These strong feelings of objection, seem to stem from, numerous incidents spanning more than decade where both these groups and their casinos have repeatedly broken their word, not only by stiffing players but also breaking untold promises to this site.

If the three strike rule was enforce here, they'd be in the pit till hell freezes over and then some. I doubt many, if any CM members, will risk playing at these casinos. But, this site is not just accessible by members. The rogue pit right through to accredited casinos are there for all to see and use. If past "evidence" is anything to go on, imo members are clearly concerned newbies visiting the CM site, could well become the next wave of players stiffed.

Hindsight can be a powerful combatant against repeatedly offending wrong-doers.

 

[MisterBJ]

I don't see anyone doubting the authenticity of this information. What I do see though, are members concerned with the possible ramifications if these casino groups are discharged from their current position. These strong feelings of objection, seem to stem from, numerous incidents spanning more than decade where both these groups and their casinos have repeatedly broken their word, not only by stiffing players but also breaking untold promises to this site.

If the three strike rule was enforce here, they'd be in the pit till hell freezes over and then some. I doubt many, if any CM members, will risk playing at these casinos. But, this site is not just accessible by members. The rogue pit right through to accredited casinos are there for all to see and use. If past "evidence" is anything to go on, imo members are clearly concerned newbies visiting the CM site, could well become the next wave of players stiffed.

Hindsight can be a powerful combatant against repeatedly offending wrong-doers.

WELL SAID!!!

 

[anniemac]

I also get a call every Friday from Silver Oak, offering me a huge bonus to deposit.

What is so stupid about them calling me is that when I finally got paid, I closed my account (or thought I had) and let's just say that cordiality wasn't my strong suit after so many weeks of dealing with them.

That doesn't count all the spam emails from POC, Silver Oak, Slots Jungle etc. that I get every week.

 

[BMWSTACK]

Yes, but Bryan isn't saying anything to the effect toward accreditation, baptism, etc...merely the CHANCE to move from the rogue pit...they could fail. They could pass and sit in 'not recommended' for eternity. Hell, they could sell, f* up, or pass with flying colours. That's rather the point - to see WHAT they do. They aren't being given a free pass.

Once bitten, twice shy...fool me once, shame on you, twice, shame on me...w/e cliche you like. He's simply saying, 'ok, show me what you got - prove the members wrong, me wrong, and well, if we were right all along, all right, there's the door'....it's CM saying 'we won't spray you with the hose from the porch, but we ain't letting you in either'

Probation means, you did your time, you're allowed out POTENTIALLY and with terms.....or back in you go, toot sweet

The part where you say "to see what they do" there is already plenty of information out there to show what they are CURRENTLY doing. Just go do some general research on the web. There are plenty of standard complaints recently. In the last 2 minutes I found one where someone had been fighting since April until recently to get paid. This person wasn't considered a fraudster, and was just getting the general run around. There are plenty of other complaints you can find that shows nothing has changed.

If past "evidence" is anything to go on, imo members are clearly concerned newbies visiting the CM site, could well become the next wave of players stiffed.

.

I agree 100%. We are a great group here and everyone always seems to look out for and put information out there that protects Members and Newbies. This is the reason why we frown upon screenshots from rogues, and that is why we bash the rogue casinos when mentioned in threads.

Yes indeed seeing "Probation Cool Cat", could definitely drive somebody browsing the web to go deposit there. Yes indeed it would be mostly there own fault because if you read the thread I am sure there are enough comments on the first page alone to make you reconsider. Hopefully they go look at the terms on the website first and see the:

10-15 business days for approval 7-10 business days for processing, with possible extra time because processor problems happen.

 

[Sovietsky]

Hey don't get me wrong, I said the exact same thing as you have the first time we gave them another shot, and a second- sorry third time I would be an idiot.As Bryan has stated he has been taking to the CEO for the last 10 years so there is some things that are the same.

I was wondering how many shots can one give them? 5,10 or more?

Let's say CM give them another chance and they screw up, then they can come back 5 years later and do the same thing. The one losing would be CM.

 

[The Dude]

I've read a lot of the comments here and it's fair to say this has become a very evocative subject!

I would like the membership to understand that I feel slightly caught between a rock and a hard place here in that I want operators to realize that if they make concerted and successful efforts to clean up their act over an extended period, that there is a route out of "roguedom". To re-iterate once again this is not accreditation or recommendation at all. Simply a switch from "Rogue" status to "With reservations", accompanied as usual by the reasons.

My philosophy here is that a casino who is aware of it's responsibilities and is making that effort is far better for the player as a whole. In fact, I think it is very important to try and persuade a bad casino that there are benefits to reform rather than simply rogue them and ignore them.

Clearly in this instance, we are dealing with a company that really do evoke a lot of emotion and it is absolutely 100% understandable that many will be skeptical of their ability to reform. I've therefore decided that a reasonable compromise would be to extend the probationary period from my initial and perhaps somewhat ambitious 30 days to 6 months and, at the end of that, ask the members here to vote on the issue: fully registered members and up.

Who knows? Maybe they will eventually work their way from Probation to Baptism by Fire. Nothing surprises me anymore. But one thing I do know is Trust no one. I will be boycotting them too...

Would you please knock off this crap? Thank you.