On Probation The Virtual Casino Group and Ace Revenue

[buggars]

Hey guys , haven't commented here in quite a while but! I use to deposit at club player all the time . I had no problem getting paid when I won. One day I went to log in and my account had been locked and I haven't played at any of them for a long time . After seeing this I'm gonna see if the problem can be resolved and try depositing again.

Good Luck
buggars

 

[Casinomeister]

Feel like I'm waking into the lion's den holding a tunafish sandwich.

What I'm doing here is being as objective as possible. The Rogue pit is not a form of punishment - it's a way to get casinos to square themselves away, to improve their management, operations, and customer support so that they can avoid being a rogue-like business venture. If you have read my statement on the Virtual Casino group's probation section, you'd understand a bit more where I'm coming from.

https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/virtual-casino-group/

With all due respect. Meister you can't be serious? Honestly there is enough casinos to choose from the accredited list. I don't think you have to keep this probation thingy going. All of these casinos listed above. Has at least 2 month processing time for withdrawals. Why don't you just allow the members here to vote. And let us decide whether they should be on probation or not. I think we all know what the answer would be. I'm sorry Bryan but you are wrong on this one.

This has nothing to do with an accreditation - there are no plans to bring them on board at all. This is a process to make the rogue section more viable - and more realistic. And it is in a way a form of voting. We can see for ourselves how many valid complaints come in and how they are dealt with and go from there.

Well it's hardly surprising they only generated one PAB - in fact I'm surprised there was even one!
I thought the PAB rules stated that PABs were not allowed against rogue casinos...

We've made it clear several times that we accept complaints for Ace Revenue and the Virtual Group. Both properties have reps on board who have probably been taking care of issues behind the scenes. We also have a complaints forum where many many players post their complaints - and if you look at that objectively, you'll see that there are relatively few complaints concerning these properties. Whether or not a casino is in the rogue pit doesn't stop people from complaining about them.

...P.S. Will the accreditation attempt mean those on here whom have historical issues of no-pay will be paid??

Absolutely - if they have a valid complaint, they will be squared away. This is one of the main reasons why we have the probation set up - to prompt players and webmasters to get the word out.

 

[MisterBJ]

All we are saying Bryan is LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE. Forget them, we are happy here as things are. Honestly when I woke up and saw this, I HAD A FIT!!!

 

[Casinomeister]

Some of you seem to be confusing this "probation" period with either a Baptism by Fire or Accreditation. This is primarily a way to prompt players to bring on their complaints. For the past two years, we've made it clear that we'd take on PABs for both Ace Revenue and the Virtual Casino group. So far there have been a total of about three. Even so, there have not been complaints as of late in our forum, and if anyone has any valid issues, bring them on. Now is a ripe time to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the casino group. I am explaining the process of probation at Casinomeister. When the probation period is over, I would expect the casino to either be back in the rogue pit or in our reservations section here. The reservations section explains the reasons why a casino is neither rogue nor accredited. You will find many ex-rogues in there, and a few ex-accredited ones as well.

 

[Casinomeister]

All we are saying Bryan is LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE. Forget them, we are happy here as things are. Honestly when I woke up and saw this, I HAD A FIT!!!

Why would you have a fit? I really don't understand. The roguish issues that these casinos were involved with happened 5-10 years ago - and longer. You've been a member for less than a year.

What I'm getting at is that some players are not looking at this objectively. We have given the Virtual group two or three shots at this in the past. The last time was around four years ago. For the past two years, it's been relatively quiet. So why get upset? I could find many other things to have fits about.

 

[Googobucs]

From Slot Madness:

10.The Company reserves the right to cancel your account for any reason whatsoever at any time without notice to you. Any balance in your account at the time of such cancellation may be credited to you, however, the Company reserves the right, in its unfettered discretion, to void any winnings and confiscate any balance in your Casino account in any circumstances including:
1.If there is evidence to suggest that you have more than one active account for the Casino;
2.If the name on your Casino account does not match the name on the credit card(s) used to make deposits on your Casino account;
3.If you participate in a Casino promotion and cash-in before fulfilling the requirements of that particular promotion;
4.If you provide incorrect or misleading registration, account or identification information;
5.If you are not of legal age;
6.If you reside in a jurisdiction where participation in the Game is prohibited by law;
7.If you have allowed or permitted (intentionally or unintentionally) someone else to play on your Casino account;
8.If you have not played at the Casino on an individual basis for personal entertainment only (that is, you have played in a professional sense or in concert with other player(s) as part of a club, group, etc.);
9.If you are found cheating or if it is determined by the Company that you have employed or made use of a system (including machines, computers, software or other automated systems) designed specifically to defeat the Casino;
10.If you have been designated as a bonus abuser, playing no or low-risk strategies in order to withdraw promotional money;
If the Company should become aware that you have played at any other on-line casino under any of the circumstances set out at I) to X) above

Predatory terms that gives them the right to close your account and take your winnings IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

 

[chayton]

I mean, they are (were) the worst spammers out there, they invented PHONESPAM for gawd sake.
How many people had to change their phonenumber in the past because they got called 3 times a day with stupid bonusoffers? And it was a tape, so you could not even shout at the guy (forgot his name, I'm sure Chayton knows).

Yeah, it was that canned spam recorded message, used to drive me bonkers...funny when Marty was here on the forum he called me, I asked him to get off the phone spam list, I said it was driving me crazy having all these messages, "Hi this is Chris DiAngelo...." he said hang on a second and hands the phone to Chris DiAngelo in person - he said "Hi, this is Chris DiAngelo...." Believe it or not I was completely lost for words for a second, then we all had a good laugh, he promised to take me off the list and I haven't been called since.

 

[greedygirl]

I knew there'd be plenty of posts regarding Bryan's decision to move these companies out of the Rogue section and into Probationary status.

I'd like to shed some light by providing some important information that most have not been privy to, regarding Virtual and Ace. While it may not address all concerns (and those concerns will be addressed), I believe it will help you to get a better picture on the current situation involving these two companies. All I ask is that you look at things objectively. :notworthy

https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/virtual-casino-group/

 

[bonustreak]

Greedy gotta love that voice of reason you always instill

 

[pobeda]

just my 2c
i would never play there even if all of a sudden they would be accredited. memories still fresh

However, out of curiosity, i went to CoolCat live chat and asked how long it will take to withdraw.
here is response (ridiculous by any means)
The time frame for withdrawals is 7-10 business days to be approved and 10-14 business days to be sent, plus the delivery time, which may vary according to processors limitations.

how this going to help them attract customers??

and I do know that withdrawal times has nothing to do with probation. like i said, just my 2c

 

[EdieD]

At present, no. But what's next, "Baptism by Fire"???

What's next you say? Probably Rome casino will be on recommended list.

 

[Casinomeister]

What's next you say? Probably Rome casino will be on recommended list.

That's bullshit. Don't be a troll.

 

[Casinomeister]

just my 2c
i would never play there even if all of a sudden they would be accredited. memories still fresh...

C'mon people. No one has said anything about being accredited.

 

[Casinomeister]

I've merged both Ace Revenue and Virtual Casino threads into this one since they are both related.

 

[EdieD]

I'm a troll but everybody else who replied to this thread doesn't agree with your decision and provided details of just how bad the policies are at these casinos you've put on probation. The facts are supplied directly on their website. If their guidelines, policies and operating procedures changed drastically to improve the quality of their business, it may restore some credibility. There is no evidence to support this nor any reason to upgrade them and indirectly encourage people to play there.

 

[Casinomeister]

I'm a troll but everybody else who replied to this thread doesn't agree with your decision and provided details of just how bad the policies are at these casinos you've put on probation. The facts are supplied directly on their website. If their guidelines, policies and operating procedures changed drastically to improve the quality of their business, it may restore some credibility. There is no evidence to support this nor any reason to upgrade them and indirectly encourage people to play there.

You're applying selective reading in this case. No evidence? Yet I, greedygirl, and Max have both shown you the evidence: the lack of complaints going back a few years. I've also implied that you can look for yourself. Show me the unresolved complaints posted in this forum for the past two, three - four years.

You want them to change their terms and conditions? I'll bet you they change them. That's why we have open forms of communication. The only thing I'm encouraging is to remain objective. Seems like a number of people are having a difficult time of doing that.

 

[BMWSTACK]

Some of you seem to be confusing this "probation" period with either a Baptism by Fire or Accreditation. This is primarily a way to prompt players to bring on their complaints. For the past two years, we've made it clear that we'd take on PABs for both Ace Revenue and the Virtual Casino group. So far there have been a total of about three. Even so, there have not been complaints as of late in our forum, and if anyone has any valid issues, bring them on. Now is a ripe time to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the casino group. I am explaining the process of probation at Casinomeister. When the probation period is over, I would expect the casino to either be back in the rogue pit or in our reservations section here. The reservations section explains the reasons why a casino is neither rogue nor accredited. You will find many ex-rogues in there, and a few ex-accredited ones as well.

This is an extremely solid forum. This forum surpasses any other casino forum out there in terms of traffic and information. I constantly speak to the fact that this is the most "real" forum you will ever find. The members are smart and the forum holds itself to the highest standards. I constantly brag that you won't find members posting screenshots, or getting excited playing shady casinos. I do view other forums, but most other forums are based upon members mostly playing and speaking of less than reputable casinos. I have racked my brain trying to figure out how his ridiculousness takes place at these other places and have just chalked it up to the members 1) needing to get a gambling fix no matter the cost 2) plain ignorance.

So with that being said, I would assume that CM not seeing many complaints has to do with the level of its members. Just like we do not see screenshots of rogues, I wouldn't expect a lot of complaints to be launched. Even new members can do a few searches here, and would quickly find that complaints on rogues are not really looked at with compassion.

I understand that you are saying that probation is a way to bring complaints about. Hopefully members here have not made tht decision to play there, and yes the public announcement may bring new members to come and launch a complaint, but ultimately any exposure is good exposure to this group. Just having their name in the headlines whether good or bad is a win for them. I personally do not believe that they deserve to have their name publicized in any context, especially with these still ridiculous terms that have been posted in this thread, such as long approval of withdrawals. I could possibly see a mention if they have changed terms and made a commitment to stick to them, but all I have seen is general political rants.

I am still surprised at this move regardless of the substantiation. It does not change my opinion of this being he best forum, I just want to see the continued standards that has made CM the place it is.

 

[chuchu59]

Bryan,

I do hope that you ponder over the issue carefully before arriving at a decision to remove them from the pit. They have fooled you many times before and on each occasion promising you they have turned over a new leaf yet reverting back to their roguish ways once some players hit big. I cannot see how they are likely to be different this time around. The absence of complaints means nothing because as KK pointed out, nobody can PAB against rogues. If you really believe they deserve a final chance impose harsh conditions eg longer probation period before depitifying them. I don't want you to be fooled again. For many players its a case of once bitten twice shy and they have bitten many times.

 

[LHofsdal]

I do have an open mind, and am willing to see how this all plays out. But you know how the saying goes...Been there, done that....

As players, we can only stand up for one another, and look out for other players. This is not new to anyone, we have all seen them "turn over a new leaf" or try to. This is not the first time they tried and failed. One can not blame us for being overly cautious when it comes to this group.

Before I found CM I did play at Club Player casino, and actually cashed out a few times, it took approx. 3 weeks for each cashout, but I did get paid. It also took alot of hounding through phone calls and e-mails. It has now been atleast 3 years since I have played at any casino in this group. Is the withdrawl process going to change? Is it still going to be 10 days before it is even processed and another 10 days to be sent?

With any luck, this group will improve, and not fail again. But only time will tell. Is there a rep that going to be joining CM to handle players questions and complaints? Or is the group going to be using you, Bryan, or Max as the middle man? I know on other forums a nice lady named Cindy is the rep, and she does try to do her best in handling complaints, but the complaints are still being posted.

I can only speak for myself, but I am willing to see how this all pans out, in the long term, not just 30 days. Time my heal wounds, but does not make people forget about them. And with the long history this group has, it is going to a very long time for them to prove themselves, for me anyway.

LH

 

[greedygirl]

It's been a very long day and while I'd like to reply to much of what's been brought up, sleep is what's foremost on my agenda. Before I hit the sheets, there are just a couple quick bits, for now...

As I mentioned previously in my long recitation, the current terms are something that need to be addressed thoroughly and immediately. Management has already agreed that anything requiring amending, will be dealt with swiftly.

Is there a rep that going to be joining CM to handle players questions and complaints? Or is the group going to be using you, Bryan, or Max as the middle man?

There will be reps here from both Virtual and Ace. Further, I will also be helping out during this initial period of time, as we've all known there would be a high-volume of posts requiring responses. I would expect Bryan and Max to be 'middle men' as little or as much as they would with any other situation.

In the morning, I'll be responding to the bulk of the concerns being discussed.

In the meantime, I'd like to reiterate that there has been NO endorsement made by Bryan, Max or the Casinomeister website, itself. Moving these two companies into Probation is a baby step, much like the baby steps that we've been taking with Virtual and Ace over the past four years. It was brought up that perhaps we should have waited longer for a lengthier track record. How long would be long enough? I'm not being funny or facetious with that question. The truth is that this has been a long, hard road. Is there still room for improvement? Of course there is and without having these public discussions, it's difficult to identify and/or assess these issues. At the same time, rushing to a harsh judgement without being objective is counter-productive for everyone.

What I do know is what I've witnessed over these past four years: An absolute willingness and pro-active movement by management to take whatever reasonable steps necessary to operate responsibly.

And now I must get some beauty sleep (no jokes about hibernation, dammit!).

 

[jetset]

When a company has "turned over a new leaf" as many times as Virtual has, it's understandable that players will remain sceptical...and they have every right to be so, given that at the end of the day it is their money that is at risk if yet another promise of reform is dishonoured by this notorious operator.

Virtual's management has reportedly been in a number of scrapes during its history - some of them pretty unsavoury and a little scary, and going beyond the obvious operational sins of screwing players over, slow-pays and conduct that has in the past shown a general lack of respect for the player community.

Either the management has experienced a dramatic epiphany, or the sins of the past came home to roost with such force in terms of player stay-aways that a change in operational conduct had to be made.

Or, as some have pointed out, it may be just another resort to an insincere quick-fix as was apparently the case in past resolutions to change.

Either way, players face potential risk when an operator with such a bad reputation is presented by a trusted source as reformed and potentially safe to frequent.

Bryan and his colleagues have decided that Virtual is worth giving another opportunity at Casinomeister, and that is his right as the owner of this highly respected information site, regardless of whether members like it or not.

But we should all remember the fundamental fact that operators too often forget - players and where they decide to place their business is the ultimate key to success.

Like others here I remain sceptical and believe that a thirty day probationary period for a group like Virtual is not nearly sufficient under these extraordinary circumstances.

I would suggest that we wait to see if these suggested T&C changes are made, and perhaps pause a little longer on the probabtionary period to ensure that there has been a genuine change in player treatment by a management that truly seeks to at last become professional, integrity-driven and consequently more successful.

 

[anniemac]

I chased Silver Oak for 6 weeks over $75. Of course, that was several years ago so maybe they had an epiphany and have seen the light.

However, as far as I am concerned, you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

Would not touch anyone of these casinos with a 10 foot pole.

 

[chayton]

New leaf or not, I can't see too many players flocking to play there with those lengthy payout times. Remember how everyone raised a stink here about JPC and their 48 hour pending period? And they're a trustworthy and reliable group - personally I love them but even I have been playing at places where I get paid quicker.

If Virtual had payouts in 48 hours then a 30 day probationary period might sit better with me.

 

[MisterBJ]

IMHO, they will come in and do right for a short while. Get the gambling community to think they have turned over a new leaf, like in the past. Afterwards turn back to their old ways, and have enough steam to run for 8 more years. Luckily Americans are over ran with plenty other RTG to choose from.

 

[MisterBJ]

I chased Silver Oak for 6 weeks over $75. Of course, that was several years ago so maybe they had an epiphany and have seen the light.

However, as far as I am concerned, you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

Would not touch anyone of these casinos with a 10 foot pole.

Maybe its April Fools in November here at Meisterland