Bonus Complaint Playhippo voided my winnings after they changed their terms

grinder020123

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Hi,

I'm new to this forum but am pleased that I can tell my story here to my fellow gamblers. Last month (Jan 14) I played on Playhippo casino using one of their bonus offers. Now when i registered to this casino one month before I carefully read their terms regarding the bonus policy they had. One of the most important parts i picked out was the fact that you could spin for a maximum of 8 euros per spin. After that I played the casino multiple times without ever making a nice win but constantly following their terms not wanting to cause any problems when I might make some profit for a change. And after new years (Jan 10th) I decided to give it another go hoping this year would bring me some luck. And to my own surprise I won a really nice amount of 3100 euros. When I won this amount I still carefully followed the fact that i could only bet 8 euros per spin. After completing all the requirements regarding the bonus I requested a withdraw for a change. I send my document to verify my account and was happily waiting for my withdraw to be processed. Only a few days after I received an email that i had broke the terms and conditions of my bonus and that all of my winnings would be voided. I didn't understand what I had done wrong and requested more information since the email was kind of vague. They replied that for some countries the terms had been adjusted on January the 7th, 3 days before I played and won, and that the maximum amount per spin for players from the Netherlands had been adjusted from 8 euros to 4 euros per spin and therefore was not entitled to the amount I won. The fact I got so upset is that i really made an effort to read the terms before and had not been abusive and broke any of the rules they set up for the bonus before and that after they changed the terms they (intentionally?) not informed me about this crucial change in the terms. I tried to compromise with them maybe to get half of my winnings but they did not wish to cooperate and I was back to 0 once again. After a while I got an email from my account manager saying that I would be granted back half of my deposits ever made making the refund a total of 425 euros. I have to say that I wasn't pleased with that outcome still keeping me a losing player on their site. I have to ask doesn't a casino have any responsibility about the fact that they changed their terms and make me accept them again since i did not agree to those terms since I was not informed about the adjustment. Does any other player have this issue with this casino or another casino changing the terms without informing you as a player? And does anyone know if there is any action you can take regarding this?

I want to thank everybody that will read my post and comment on it and I hope none of you will experience the same.

Thanks,

KeyJay
 

KasinoKing

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I want to thank everybody that will read my post and comment on it and I hope none of you will experience the same.
Thanks,
KeyJay
Sorry, but I am not even going to attempt the read that massive block of text - it would make my eyes bleed! :eek2:

If you have some serious problem with the casino - Pitch-A-Bitch.
(Link at the top of the forum).

KK
 

dunover

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Unfortunately, say like Paypal or Neteller or most other entities you are a member of, casinos seldom send mass e-mails out 'notification of amended terms' or similar.
They are obviously not compelled to unlike most businesses, hence this sorry situation.
 

wobble33

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uk
guys


ok here is the term, but why say MAY BE VOID? or is it because of the sum won that its deffo void? also notice DOA only counts to 80% for wr.

This maximum stake is 8 € or currency equivalent Players that reside or have id documents from Netherlands, Germany or Canada can bet maximum €4 per spin/dealt hand while having a bonus to wager through. In case of a breach of this rule, the player agrees that his or her bonus and any associated winnings may be void.
 

spoton

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A bit off-topic but in my opinion terms like that shouldn't be allowed. I can see that casinos need to limit the countries they operate or promote themselfves in because of laws, and that a market may not be profitable, but having terms that apply on where a persons passport is issued is something that belongs in the past...
 

grinder020123

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@ wobble33

yes I understand these are the terms. The issue is that the terms were adjusted a couple of days before I played and before players from the Netherlands had the same restrictions as anyone else which is 8 euros per spin. My issue is that if they change these terms so drastically regarding me as a player I should at least get an email or a popup notifying me that these changes have been made.
 

onkel

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This is the third time I've heard of people getting their winnings voided due to a change in allowed maxbet when using bonuses at Playhippo. There was another player on here that PAB about the same thing a while back, and I personally know guy who bet €9, won and then suddenly maxbet was €5 and he lost his winnings (he'd won with €9 bets and withdrawn many times before, but this time it was a considerable amount).

This was last year, so it almost seems they've made a habit of changing the maxbet as soon as somebody wins, then just change it back again. The player I know is from the UK fwiw.
 

Blathaon

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guys


ok here is the term, but why say MAY BE VOID? or is it because of the sum won that its deffo void? also notice DOA only counts to 80% for wr.

This maximum stake is 8 € or currency equivalent Players that reside or have id documents from Netherlands, Germany or Canada can bet maximum €4 per spin/dealt hand while having a bonus to wager through. In case of a breach of this rule, the player agrees that his or her bonus and any associated winnings may be void.

Thanks for bringing this up i was not aware of this, i usually play their Thursday reload bonus, the WR was recently lowered from 50xB to 45xB but that's pointless if DoA only counts 80% then that makes the WR 54xB.
 

Nifty29

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@ wobble33

yes I understand these are the terms. The issue is that the terms were adjusted a couple of days before I played and before players from the Netherlands had the same restrictions as anyone else which is 8 euros per spin. My issue is that if they change these terms so drastically regarding me as a player I should at least get an email or a popup notifying me that these changes have been made.

HEre's my take on it FWIW.

In an ideal world, we would all get notifications when a term is varied, removed or added automatically the moment the change is made.....in an ideal world.

Unfortunately, it isn't an ideal world.

Which is why the terms and conditions of play at all online casinos says that you AGREE that the terms and conditions may change at any time without notice and that it is the player's responsibility to check the terms before they play. Whilst this is unreasonable for the entire terms and conditions, I don't think it's too onerous a task for the bonus terms. Actually, I check them just about every time I play....perhaps that's why I've never had a bonus related issue in 15+ years.

Yes, it takes time to check bonus terms, but an gram of prevention is worth a tonne of cure. It could have saved a lot of players a lot of money over the years. When we're talking about potentially large amounts of money, IMO taking a few minutes to read terms is time well spent.

The bottom line is that if you DON'T check the bonus terms, then you're breaching your agreement anyway, because you stated that you WOULD. If you don't want to check them....don't agree that you will!

I doubt they change terms based on one player winning....unless they have like 10 players in total on their books.

Unless you accepted the bonus BEFORE the change was made i.e. you took it before but actually played later, then I think you're SOL.

I do find it annoying when casinos keep changing stuff all the time. However, it mostly doesn't affect me (or the general recreational gambler) as it usually relates to max bets and suchlike to deter bonus whores and advantage players (nothing wrong with either...but if you're going to be one of them you need to be extra vigilant and accept that you might get caught by changes if you aren't vigilant).
 

Mouche12

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After reading the T&Cs - and this is the paragraph in question:

In the interest of fair gaming there is a maximum allowed stake per bet until the wagering requirement has been met. This is true for all bonuses given from the company and includes first deposit bonus, reload bonuses and all other bonuses. This maximum stake is €8 or currency equivalent. Players that reside or have id documents from Netherlands, Germany, Romania, Italy, Canada or Croatia can bet maximum €4 per spin/dealt hand while having a bonus to wager through. A bet is defined as one roulette/slot spin or one dealer's dealt hand in any table game, or one deal in any Video Poker game. This rule also applies when using any double up/gamble feature in any game, for example video poker. This means that the player may not continue to double a win to an amount larger than €16 (or 8 for Netherlands, Germany, Romania, Italy, Canada and Croatia) or currency equivalent . In case of a breach of this rule, the player agrees that his or her bonus and any associated winnings may be void.

I often double check WR and max bet sizes anyway with Live Support. Lots of NetEnt casinos have max stakes in place, and although some players are allowed to bet higher - depending on the player's location - the max bet size (where you can never go wrong) is often capped at € 5 for all players (e.g. at RedBet, Next, LeoVegas etc., but not GUTS where a max bet size applies of € 7.50 for all players:)).

Playhippo does not have this all-round max bet size, and I can understand that the OP did not feel the need to double-check since he had already deposited and played with a bonus there a few times. IMHO, this particular change in the bonus terms for Dutch and G, R.I, C and Cr. players might be interpreted as something of a trap in this scenario.

Would like to know what the rep has to say about it...
 

Nifty29

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After reading the T&Cs - and this is the paragraph in question:

In the interest of fair gaming there is a maximum allowed stake per bet until the wagering requirement has been met. This is true for all bonuses given from the company and includes first deposit bonus, reload bonuses and all other bonuses. This maximum stake is €8 or currency equivalent. Players that reside or have id documents from Netherlands, Germany, Romania, Italy, Canada or Croatia can bet maximum €4 per spin/dealt hand while having a bonus to wager through. A bet is defined as one roulette/slot spin or one dealer's dealt hand in any table game, or one deal in any Video Poker game. This rule also applies when using any double up/gamble feature in any game, for example video poker. This means that the player may not continue to double a win to an amount larger than €16 (or 8 for Netherlands, Germany, Romania, Italy, Canada and Croatia) or currency equivalent . In case of a breach of this rule, the player agrees that his or her bonus and any associated winnings may be void.

I often double check WR and max bet sizes anyway with Live Support. Lots of NetEnt casinos have max stakes in place, and although some players are allowed to bet higher - depending on the player's location - the max bet size (where you can never go wrong) is often capped at € 5 for all players (e.g. at RedBet, Next, LeoVegas etc., but not GUTS where a max bet size applies of € 7.50 for all players:)).

Playhippo does not have this all-round max bet size, and I can understand that the OP did not feel the need to double-check since he had already deposited and played with a bonus there a few times. IMHO, this particular change in the bonus terms for Dutch and G, R.I, C and Cr. players might be interpreted as something of a trap in this scenario.

Would like to know what the rep has to say about it...

How can something be a "trap" if it's written there in plain English on the website?

I don't understand :what:
 

GamblerXXXl

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I never trusted these guys they are giving out allot of bonuses, I once tried to play there but first I did some google research on them and saw that they confiscated some winnings on exact the same way. Maybe the casino rep can give an explanation why they keep doing this on a regular basis...
 

GamblerXXXl

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How can something be a "trap" if it's written there in plain English on the website?

I don't understand :what:

Handing out allot of bonuses every 2-3 days and then changing the T&C with out noticing the player from the country probably is a kind of entrapment.
If you handing out so much bonuses you know that the players from these countries going to be in trouble when they win and if they loose, nothing to be said by the casino I guess casino wins-wins in these situation for them.
 

FavoPlayer

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They replied that for some countries the terms had been adjusted on January the 7th, 3 days before I played and won, and that the maximum amount per spin for players from the Netherlands had been adjusted from 8 euros to 4 euros per spin and therefore was not entitled to the amount I won.

In both T&C General and Casino stated that:
1.4. The Terms will come into effect on the 8th of September 2013
So how I or anyone else can know if terms are changed or not? Usually online casinos notice you when you are logged in into casino or just write in terms, that they where changed or updated on exact day. This kind of BS they are trying to push IMHO. :mad:
 

wobble33

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uk
HEre's my take on it FWIW.

In an ideal world, we would all get notifications when a term is varied, removed or added automatically the moment the change is made.....in an ideal world.

Unfortunately, it isn't an ideal world.

Which is why the terms and conditions of play at all online casinos says that you AGREE that the terms and conditions may change at any time without notice and that it is the player's responsibility to check the terms before they play. Whilst this is unreasonable for the entire terms and conditions, I don't think it's too onerous a task for the bonus terms. Actually, I check them just about every time I play....perhaps that's why I've never had a bonus related issue in 15+ years.

Yes, it takes time to check bonus terms, but an gram of prevention is worth a tonne of cure. It could have saved a lot of players a lot of money over the years. When we're talking about potentially large amounts of money, IMO taking a few minutes to read terms is time well spent.

The bottom line is that if you DON'T check the bonus terms, then you're breaching your agreement anyway, because you stated that you WOULD. If you don't want to check them....don't agree that you will!

I doubt they change terms based on one player winning....unless they have like 10 players in total on their books.

Unless you accepted the bonus BEFORE the change was made i.e. you took it before but actually played later, then I think you're SOL.

I do find it annoying when casinos keep changing stuff all the time. However, it mostly doesn't affect me (or the general recreational gambler) as it usually relates to max bets and suchlike to deter bonus whores and advantage players (nothing wrong with either...but if you're going to be one of them you need to be extra vigilant and accept that you might get caught by changes if you aren't vigilant).

sort of agree with nifty here on T/Cs, I have being gambling for many years too, and not once have I being done by T/Cs, because I always check first....

the OP imho does have a valid point though, its when the changes were made. ok they are allowed to make changes every day if they want to, but ffs LET PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THEM!
same as they have changed DOA to 80% for wr. its already caught blathoon out, and how many more people has this caught out who only ever play DOA?
OP I would have a word with the rep on here, some common sense is needed off them.
 

Mouche12

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In both T&C General and Casino stated that: So how I or anyone else can know if terms are changed or not? Usually online casinos notice you when you are logged in into casino or just write in terms, that they where changed or updated on exact day. This kind of BS they are trying to push IMHO. :mad:

That is true, some casinos, not all, have a pop-up notifying players of a change in their T&Cs.

Nifty, I am referring to the scenario where the OP has deposited and used several bonuses and would not have to expect a sudden change in the max bet size for players of his nationality. I myself always double-check but if I trust the casino and am a regular player I could also have fallen in this trap.
 

grinder020123

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Thanks

Hi,

Thanks for all the great feedback and opinions on my story. I've contacted the rep and noticed he read the posts so I hope he'll respond and see what his opinion about this is.
 

fritz

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It would be interesting if the rep of playhippo would post his point of view here. What is the point of having a rep on a forum if the rep is not active?

Imo the way playhippo treats its players is unethical and maybe it is also illegal. The player accepted a rule of 8€ but not a rule of 4€. Therefore the new rule of 4€ could be considered void. But even if it werent void it would still be unethical not to pay the player because playhippo failed to notify the player of the new term. So playhippo should pay the OP.
 

Nifty29

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It would be interesting if the rep of playhippo would post his point of view here. What is the point of having a rep on a forum if the rep is not active?

Imo the way playhippo treats its players is unethical and maybe it is also illegal. The player accepted a rule of 8€ but not a rule of 4€. Therefore the new rule of 4€ could be considered void. But even if it werent void it would still be unethical not to pay the player because playhippo failed to notify the player of the new term. So playhippo should pay the OP.

The player did NOT accept the $8 rule at all.

What they accepted was that the terms can be changed at ANY time, and that's it's the player's responsibility to check before they accept any bonus. If they had done as they agreed, they would have seen it.

The problem these days is that so many people look for someone else to blame, and pay, when they make a mistake and/or are careless. Personal responsibility is becoming an option rather than a necessity, and the result is the litigation-mad populace and the umpteen pages of terms we all have to keep abreast of, not just with online casinos, but it everyday life.
 

Borgie

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That is true, some casinos, not all, have a pop-up notifying players of a change in their T&Cs.

Nifty, I am referring to the scenario where the OP has deposited and used several bonuses and would not have to expect a sudden change in the max bet size for players of his nationality. I myself always double-check but if I trust the casino and am a regular player I could also have fallen in this trap.

Yes an example of that is Unibet - if they change Terms and Conditions, when you log on a POP up appears to tell you that they have changed and you have to accept the new ones - it happens quite often but this way they have covered themselves and the punter knows they have changed too.

I agree its our responsibility to check Terms and Conditions but when they seem to change so often the Casinos could help like Unibet do
 

Slot12

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Hi,

I was reading this thread today and felt like I have to post about my experience with Playhippo I already made complaint with a third party website so I won't do it again, only thing is that I really felt the same as the OP they have done the same thing to me.

Playing at Playhippo for a while it was a good casino with allot of promotions, on Monday I played at the casino with a promotion on Wednesday they send me a promotion again. After winning a 4000 euro amount they gave me the same max bet rule even when I played a slot where the bonus features where saved and by changing my bet size the features would be lost. They not noticed me at all for any changes.

After consulting with the third party website I got some of my deposited back and they made a pop up where it said they changed the terms, but as I see now they don't do it anymore. The Playhippo isn't responding to this thread to they just seem to do this to get some extra money out of this action. My lesson is learned it's costs me over 4000 euros.

I only play 32red from now :)
 

3jokers

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If you want to play at NetEnt casinos, avoid these newcomers and just stick to sites like Betsafe and Betsson. Granted, they don't give that many bonuses, and they do request ID verification, but at least you always get your winnings. Also the withdraws only take a few minutes to Skirll.
 

dusky

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Wasn't there a player that fell foul of this on here a while back as he was betting €10 spins when they changed it to €8.

I take on what Nifty is saying and agree to an extent and it leaves us with no option but to trawl pages and pages of horrendously formatted TnC's on their website looking for the clauses to catch players out.

I believe they added some form of pop up last time that suggested they had changed their terms and conditions but I've personally never seen one and have had my account there for probably coming onto a year.

I think in instances like this it would be nice of some companies to fire off a quick email for any terms changes. An email distribution list can be pulled in 2 minutes from a database and they should have a note of which copy has changed so it's easy to inform people and then it works both ways, players don't lose money and the casino doesn't get any bad press.

Too simple a suggestion though I imagine for most places who would rather trip players up.
 

grinder020123

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Contacted the rep

Hi,

Once again thanks for everyone taking the time to reply to share their thoughts about this issue. I contacted the rep of Playhippo again and I hope that he can give us some feedback about this issue.

Thanks
 
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