Bonus Complaint Paradise Win Casino voided 11.000 € (hit 5 Satter on DOA for 9k!!!)

No reaction at all by today , 3 weeks after submitting my complaint at curacao-egaming.com :confused:
 
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I haven't read all the posts

I can understand why casinos need max bet terms.
But I can't understand why a casino would dis-allow playing multiple games at once. If anything, it would be to the casinos advantage.
The only reason that jumps to mind is in order to place another landmine in the T&C so that they can deny big wins.


...but here in Australia it is actually forbidden to play two physical slots at the one time. You aren't even allowed to have another machine reserved whilst you play another. Here it is one slot at any one time.
That rule was implemented to help people with gambling problems, similarly to the banning of autoplay. Maybe in the near future we will see the max-bet become $1. I hope so.

Casinos have rules in place supposedly to protect themselves against professional players or thieves or whatever is lurking out there.
It's really because as a business the casino must be profitable. Therefore, their customers *must be* profitable.
It's a much friendlier way of putting it. :)

This idea of being able to play more than one game at once was implemented because it benefits the casino (players can lose faster).
You hit the nail on the head. It's the same reason why casinos have the double up option as well.
 
After reading all the posts.


...after they refused to refund ALL my deposits where i had broken the very same rule (wich again was over 1000 € to the point i finally "won")
I can say with a high degree of certainty, if a casino is confiscating winnings for breaking a term and refunding deposits they must also refund deposits for breaking the same term on losing deposits.
We only go back and do it again when it's to the casinos advantage. How is that fair?


ParadiseWin support: "We have explained the situation to you before. When player opens multiple games it may affect RNG (Random Number Generator)."
The casino is either:
A. Out of their minds, like casinos that prohibit roulette systems.
B. Have rigged games.

ParadiseWin support: "This is players responsibility to read Terms&Conditions before playing at the casino. "
In the real world, the casino is to some degree responsible as they have to expect that some players will not read the T&C. It's a good reason for casinos to 'baby proof' their casino.


There is one valid reason to have this rule, and it is to prevent grinding a bonus.
It's not really a valid reason because if you grind bonuses or bet really big, the amount you win on average stays the same.
I'm actually told that the amount won slightly increases if you raise your bet.


It seems that there might be a problem with this DOA game, as several casinos seem to be wary of it, and a few seem to come out with some bizarre claims and BS terms regarding it.
I've noticed that as well. DoA is on lists that do not count towards playthrough.
One reason why DoA is being singled-out is that it gives the player good reason to stop and withdraw because it pays in big chunks. I saw a player win recently on DoA and he stopped gambling at once and withdrew even though he intended to gamble for a few hours more. This is not good news for the casinos. :D


They did change it after the facts as I done some research...
Can you show us how you found this out? I would probably check myself but I'm lazy.


My impression from some of the posts is that some players think it's an unreasonable term and I agree, I'm pretty sure it fits the category. As far as I understand, Max is not in a position to enforce it besides some exceptions where the terms in question are completely unreasonable.
 
After reading all the posts.
You only needed to read 2 posts:

According to ParadiseWin Casino Terms & Conditions, point 7.17 This is strictly forbidden.
"7.17 Player is allowed to have only one game open at one time. Should the player have more the one game open at once, all winnings will be removed from the account."

i just right clicked the slots i liked and choose open in new Tab. No extra login was necessary ...
Cut and dried case - the rule was broken, the casino confiscated the winnings.

The ONLY question is, were the terms change AFTER the player deposited?
Unfortunately Way-Back-Machine only goes back to March 19th 2015 - so we may never know. :(

KK
 
But I can't understand why a casino would dis-allow playing multiple games at once. If anything, it would be to the casinos advantage.
The only reason that jumps to mind is in order to place another landmine in the T&C so that they can deny big wins.

Poor OP - what a scandalous reason to confiscate his winnings. There are plenty of casinos that prevent you from having multiple windows open by terminating your game....I guess this outfit couldn't be bothered to implement that and prefer to use it as a means to avoid payout.
 
Dear @casinokoenig

We do understand and apologize that we have totally missed this complaint out and didn't respond in time, however, we are willing to provide our point of view and explanations of the situation with our Casino terms. Of course, a long time passed and we did some changed on our terms and improved our services.

As we understood from the complaint, you have played several slot games while playing with your bonus balance, therefore, your winnings were confiscated and we re-added your bonus so you could play again without breaking our terms.

As we informed you back in 2015, according to our Terms & Conditions, paragraph 7.17. Player is allowed to have only one game open at one time. Should the player have more the one game open at once, all winnings will be removed from the account.
Our terms that were in place back in 2015 can be found here:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


We do apologize if you missed this rule before you started to play. Any player is always welcome to contact our customer support team before start playing to clarify all rules.

We would like to mention that we still have this rule for players who are playing with a bonus balance. However, if you are playing with your real funds only you are allowed to play several slots if you wish.

Players are always welcome to play with real funds if they are not willing to be limited in any way. However, if a player claims a bonus there might be winning limitations.

Please accept our apologies for the delayed answer and let us know if you need any additional information.
 
Dear @casinokoenig

We do understand and apologize that we have totally missed this complaint out and didn't respond in time, however, we are willing to provide our point of view and explanations of the situation with our Casino terms. Of course, a long time passed and we did some changed on our terms and improved our services.

As we understood from the complaint, you have played several slot games while playing with your bonus balance, therefore, your winnings were confiscated and we re-added your bonus so you could play again without breaking our terms.

As we informed you back in 2015, according to our Terms & Conditions, paragraph 7.17. Player is allowed to have only one game open at one time. Should the player have more the one game open at once, all winnings will be removed from the account.
Our terms that were in place back in 2015 can be found here:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


We do apologize if you missed this rule before you started to play. Any player is always welcome to contact our customer support team before start playing to clarify all rules.

We would like to mention that we still have this rule for players who are playing with a bonus balance. However, if you are playing with your real funds only you are allowed to play several slots if you wish.

Players are always welcome to play with real funds if they are not willing to be limited in any way. However, if a player claims a bonus there might be winning limitations.

Please accept our apologies for the delayed answer and let us know if you need any additional information.

Welcome - You are about 5 years late.

You need to contact the ADMIN to request to be a rep - @LadyJelena

You have really bad terms overall - The incident in 2015 is a clear indication for players to stay away from your brand.

Nate
 
Thank you @Nate !
Yes, we understand that 5 years have past and we are totally late with a response :( However, we are working really hard to improve our services and pay attention to old cases as well.
We have sent our request to @Casinomeister already and now to @LadyJelena as well :)

Regarding terms, as many casinos, we have more strict terms in regards to bonus play to prevent promotion abuse. Anything specific in our terms seems bad to you?
 
Thank you @Nate !
Yes, we understand that 5 years have past and we are totally late with a response :( However, we are working really hard to improve our services and pay attention to old cases as well.
We have sent our request to @Casinomeister already and now to @LadyJelena as well :)

Regarding terms, as many casinos, we have more strict terms in regards to bonus play to prevent promotion abuse. Anything specific in our terms seems bad to you?

There are LOTS of issues - Such as a maximum win of 10k for 30 days. Trust me when I say that none of the regulars here will touch your website.

Nate
 
Thank you @Nate !
Yes, we understand that 5 years have past and we are totally late with a response :( However, we are working really hard to improve our services and pay attention to old cases as well.
We have sent our request to @Casinomeister already and now to @LadyJelena as well :)

Regarding terms, as many casinos, we have more strict terms in regards to bonus play to prevent promotion abuse. Anything specific in our terms seems bad to you?

Why is it allowed to have 10 windows open with raw cash at £5 a spin, so the player is turning over £50 every 5 seconds

but it isnt allowed to play £50 every 5 seconds with bonus funds

Where is the logic? how does it make any difference and how can it cause "bonus abuse" when the player is spending the same?
 
Least with the new UKGC reg's that won't be a problem for UK punters

Hard to see what bonus abuse can be had if playing more than one slot at a time (afterall, some sites currently allow you to play 4 etc at a time)

For slots, max bet, restricted games if you wish, wagering, should cover a casino re abuse surely, rather than some BS, random, term. Playing 2 slots etc to try and clear wagering, staying within max bets and allowed games constitutes abuse? Gotcha.

Even a term in the t's and c's, it's so disproportionate (confiscating that amount) to the actual 'offence' that it's laughable if it wasn't for the fact it was for 9k.
 
If all slots have an independent RNG then playing multiple slots should not matter but if I put my tin foil hat on this is what I think has happened.

The casino management interface/RNG got confused due to multiple games open and no one else playing with that play style and spat out an influenced big win towards the provider hence why casino does not want to pay.

I have mentioned in another thread a while ago what i accidentally found in a javascript error where when launching game it had all sorts of strange fields like biggest deposit made, overall deposits, pending cash out etc and when casinos implement terms like this it only reinforces my belief that the casino account itself has a lot to do with whether you will win or not with a central RNG and not just the gaming providers one with some sort of 2 way communication between the 2.

Yes i'm a fool for believing things like this and still playing but when someone has been a compulsive gambler for a very long time its hard to kick the habit and just stop even with thoughts like this.
 
We agree that playing several slots can't affect RNG. However, when a player is starting to play several games after a big win to clear wagering requirements we consider this as promotion abuse. Also, according to our bonus rules, all winnings from bonuses are subject to limitation. Normally all winnings are corrected automatically when a player met wagering requirements. If at the time of correction a player plays several games it can affect correction and further winnings. This rule helps us and our players to make this process smooth.

We understand the player's concern about losing the big win, however, if he wouldn't violate the rule for several slots at the time, his winnings would have been corrected accordingly to the maximum possible bonus winning amount.
Players are always welcome to play on the real funds to not have limitations or strict rules for playing.

Also, we will take into consideration this situation to improve our services and close the possibility to play several slots at the time for players, who are playing with a bonus balance. For players to not have such situations in future.

@Nate Regarding the rule of maximum win of 10k for 30 days, yes, we do apply this limitation, however, it doesn't apply to Jackpot winnings (playing with real funds). Players who are winning Jackpots can cash out all amount at once.
 
If you don't want to get rid of that BS rule and make casinokoenig the happiest man on earth by paying him his legit winnings after "only" 5 years, don't waste your time here trying to justify why your actions aren't total BS.

You know it, we know. End of story.
 
We agree that playing several slots can't affect RNG. However, when a player is starting to play several games after a big win to clear wagering requirements we consider this as promotion abuse. Also, according to our bonus rules, all winnings from bonuses are subject to limitation. Normally all winnings are corrected automatically when a player met wagering requirements. If at the time of correction a player plays several games it can affect correction and further winnings. This rule helps us and our players to make this process smooth.

We understand the player's concern about losing the big win, however, if he wouldn't violate the rule for several slots at the time, his winnings would have been corrected accordingly to the maximum possible bonus winning amount.
Players are always welcome to play on the real funds to not have limitations or strict rules for playing.

Also, we will take into consideration this situation to improve our services and close the possibility to play several slots at the time for players, who are playing with a bonus balance. For players to not have such situations in future.

@Nate Regarding the rule of maximum win of 10k for 30 days, yes, we do apply this limitation, however, it doesn't apply to Jackpot winnings (playing with real funds). Players who are winning Jackpots can cash out all amount at once.

Promotion abuse? Really? for wanting to clear the wagering?

So if he left a normal window open on £3.60 for 1000 spins and came back 3 hours later - that wouldnt matter?

but because he did it in half hour, it does matter?

Surely you want them to clear the wagering on big wins so they can pump more money into table games etc

Wow. Just wow.

You've dug our own hole there.
 
@Nate Regarding the rule of maximum win of 10k for 30 days, yes, we do apply this limitation, however, it doesn't apply to Jackpot winnings (playing with real funds). Players who are winning Jackpots can cash out all amount at once.

So you can withdraw a maximum of 333Eur per day, but you can deposit 20k per day if you want?

Your terms are unfriendly - I for one do not want to be limited to 10k a MONTH - thats ridiculously low to be fair.

Also - To get people here to respect your brand, the first thing you need to do is consider paying the player you guys cheated 5 years ago.

Otherwise, you will just end up wasting your time.

Nate
 
wow - now this is unexpected lol , yes i still think i should get paid and that i wasnt treated fair when i was told my winnings were cancelled because playing more than one slot affects the Rng - wich simply and also after 5 years is not true!
 
if the casino decides to pay up my in my opinon 100 % legitimate winnings i am going to donate half of it to charity (maybe for reforestation or somthing else wich helps our mother nature ? would be open for recommendations)

Lets go paradise win casino - be legendary in a positive way! Here is your chance!
 
if the casino decides to pay up my in my opinon 100 % legitimate winnings i am going to donate half of it to charity (maybe for reforestation or somthing else wich helps our mother nature ? would be open for recommendations)

Lets go paradise win casino - be legendary in a positive way! Here is your chance!

they’ve gone back in the hole they crawled out of, unfortunately.
 
if the casino decides to pay up my in my opinon 100 % legitimate winnings i am going to donate half of it to charity (maybe for reforestation or somthing else wich helps our mother nature ? would be open for recommendations)

Lets go paradise win casino - be legendary in a positive way! Here is your chance!
Unfortunately it looks like they were only here for self promotion.

Their aim was to lure players into joining and thinking they are such a 'Great Brand' - @ParadiseWin Support - Once you tarnish your reputation, especially with BS rules like these - You will remain tarred.

You can't even pay your players more than 10k in a MONTH! - Sadly, it looks like you have popped up here in the hope someone decides to choose your casino and instead, you ran away and opened our eyes even more. Well played :)

Nate
 

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