Bonus Complaint Paradise Win Casino voided 11.000 € (hit 5 Satter on DOA for 9k!!!)

[kavaman]

To casinokoenig, similar has happaned to me at another site. I really doubt you get your deposits back , only the last deposit ;(. I didn't deliberately break any rules, but atleast i was only entitled back my last deposit ;( I guess the casino's have the rights do do this ....

Anyway the rule is once again on different part of their site, in terms and conditions, where all the other rules related to promotions are in the short terms here :

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

5e maxbet net ent slots only. And this rule is on this 20 page terms and conditions located in

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. Point 7.17 on the terms. They couldn't even put this to their general promotional terms located at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

So everyone should read all these terms? Im sure they could have made the terms a bit more simple unless they were trying to hide some FU clause in there.....

 

[casinokoenig]

update:
casino claims playing more than one slot machines affects the RNG(!?)

Casino also not willing to return the deposits i ve made (~1k€) see email conversation : "We have returned deposit and bonus to your players account. All previous deposits will not be refunded as we can return deposits only if in case player wins using the bonus and violates Terms & Conditions of the bonus."


Their email and my answer:


... your argument with the play of multiple slot machines affecting the RNG - you would be the first casino to have this happen - there are hundreds of Online Casinos , also with Netent Slots that dont have this rule , yes they even want players to play more than one game at a time so the players lose faster/enjoy the games more because of less boredom.
How are this effects ? And how do you measure them ?
Sorry but to me it just sounds like an excuse to not payout winnings and appearently this opinion also applies to fellow gamblers. I understand theres a max.bet rule and i understand that not all games are allowed if a casino grants a deposit bonus.
BUT
with these comparably quite high wagering requirements, the max. bet rule of 5€ and even not all slot games applicable this "new" additional rule ("its not allowed to play more than one slot machine at once") followed by the the argument with multiple slots affecting the RNG alltough this doesnt appear to happen other Netent Casinos is a little bit hard to understand from a real money players perspective - to me it does more look like a reason for you to not pay winnings to your customers!

But again - please join the public discussion on CM and correct me if im wrong.

Outdated URL (Invalid)



Chris



Am 03.02.2015 um 10:27 schrieb ParadiseWin Support:
> Hello Chris,
>
> We have explained the situation to you before. When player opens multiple games it may affect RNG (Random Number Generator). Our casino created this rule to prevent a possibility of any fraudulent activity and leave more chances to win all other players. This is players responsibility to read Terms&Conditions before playing at the casino. We have returned deposit and bonus to your players account. All previous deposits will not be refunded as we can return deposits only if in case player wins using the bonus and violates Terms & Conditions of the bonus.
> This decision is final and it won't change.
>
> Please do not hesitate to contact our support team in case of any questions.
>
> Sincerely,
> ParadiseWin Support
>

 

[spintee]

Im sorry to hear casinokoenig,

But that RNG is total bullshit, They do not no what they are saying,

what was that link you put in there? Not working

 

[casinokoenig]

Im sorry to hear casinokoenig,

But that RNG is total bullshit, They do not no what they are saying,

what was that link you put in there? Not working

Its the link to this thread here but since crossposting isnt allowed i changed it.

 

[davos11]

After reading through recent threads today i honestly feel a little sick , There seems to be some really rogueish ongoings with casinos recently !

It really does seem that sites are using entrapment to max profits as the expense of unknowing victims

Unless you are an experience player with a certain degree of in depth knowledge on how most terms and conditions work then you are a complete sitting duck
Max stake rule to void winnings
multiple open games
Invalid games when using a bonus
certain slots with lower wagering contribution than others

I see no reason why in this day and age , The casino can not protect itself automatically from the above rather than leaving it in the players hands ( of course then they could not re-take winnings as there own , which is the real story here ),

Like someone mentioned earlier , if a second slot is opened in a new window , then close the first session or pop up an error message , Problem solved !
How about a max stake warning pop up , or not allowing you to load up a certain Invalid game if you are not allowed to play on that particular bonus .

I really feel for guys like the OP and all the others i have read from the last few days , You can make many many deposits before you get a big hit or even a potentially life changing hit , New car , Nice family holiday , Only for it to be taken back on a small technicality .....

not to mention if you break a rule they don't tell you , Your allowed to continue playing and losing your depositing money with no chance of ever winning , And the rule breaking is only bought to your attention when you win when you have probably ( if unaware ) been breaking that rule for weeks and months earlier . Seems rules are fine to be broken aslong as you are losing but never if your winning , if you break a rule , WIN or LOSE , and they take winnings they should refund all other deposits where you also broke this rule as you never had a chance of winning .

I honestly feel the industry has changed now , massively for the worse , even some of the most reputable sites seem to be heading down this road now , Such a shame .

 

[spintee]

Great words spoken, I my self have felt the casino industry is a mine field of traps & getting worse, Even great casinos have jumped on the band wagon and join the fields,

Very few trusted and respected casinos out there now days, But as you pointed out:::

Unless you are an experience player with a certain degree of in depth knowledge on how most terms and conditions work then you are a complete sitting duck

This is no what casinos rely on, New players that are the sitting ducks, Hence why alot of casinos have dropped most bonuses, VIP's Ect & why us regs do not see the the promos we used to,

Very sad to see all this happening, Even if you did manage to pass the enigma code and manage a withdraw than they want your signature in blood,

After reading through recent threads today i honestly feel a little sick , There seems to be some really rogueish ongoings with casinos recently !

It really does seem that sites are using entrapment to max profits as the expense of unknowing victims

Unless you are an experience player with a certain degree of in depth knowledge on how most terms and conditions work then you are a complete sitting duck
Max stake rule to void winnings
multiple open games
Invalid games when using a bonus
certain slots with lower wagering contribution than others

I see no reason why in this day and age , The casino can not protect itself automatically from the above rather than leaving it in the players hands ( of course then they could not re-take winnings as there own , which is the real story here ),

Like someone mentioned earlier , if a second slot is opened in a new window , then close the first session or pop up an error message , Problem solved !
How about a max stake warning pop up , or not allowing you to load up a certain Invalid game if you are not allowed to play on that particular bonus .

I really feel for guys like the OP and all the others i have read from the last few days , You can make many many deposits before you get a big hit or even a potentially life changing hit , New car , Nice family holiday , Only for it to be taken back on a small technicality .....

not to mention if you break a rule they don't tell you , Your allowed to continue playing and losing your depositing money with no chance of ever winning , And the rule breaking is only bought to your attention when you win when you have probably ( if unaware ) been breaking that rule for weeks and months earlier . Seems rules are fine to be broken aslong as you are losing but never if your winning , if you break a rule , WIN or LOSE , and they take winnings they should refund all other deposits where you also broke this rule as you never had a chance of winning .

I honestly feel the industry has changed now , massively for the worse , even some of the most reputable sites seem to be heading down this road now , Such a shame .

 

[vinylweatherman]

That excuse is laughable. Rogue pit material really.

If this DOES affect the RTG, then they should be thrown in the pit for running dodgy software, if the excuse is BS, then they should still be in the pit for making up bogus excuses. Shame they weren't running Galewind's software, you would have been paid and their licence yanked. Heroes casino tried something similar with a CM member some while ago who played Blackjack "with a system", one that Heroes casino said made the software pay out more than it should. The supplier (Galewind) was none too pleased at the "official confirmation" to the player and the community that their software was this "flaky", and decided to pay the player concerned themselves, and then they tossed Heroes casino to the curb.

I suppose they also void winnings from players who just use their own cash, no bonuses, as after all, it still affects the RTP as they say.

It was probably the 5 scatters that did it, a win that "shouldn't be possible" unless you had found a way to beat the RNG by opening several games at once. They need to learn that even a several million to one shot is "possible", and that there is a chance that a player will hit it and win a very large sum. Funny how all that earlier play didn't "beat the RNG", and they are accepting the results as valid purely because the outcome went in their favour.

This excuse will have to be nominated for a CM award next year, but it's not one they should be proud to receive.

 

[Jasminebed]

So how does a casino like this get thrown in the rogue pit?

Maxd, would you consider allowing the OP to PAB? I realize he has used his one time for a non-accredited Casino, and I doubt your intervention will be successful in getting him paid.

If they refuse to cooperate, they might end up on No Can Do at least.

Of course, for the OP there is almost nothing to gain other than saving some other player from a similar fate.

I've reported my post so the mods will see it, but of course I know everyone is busy in London right now.

When I see a casino using such bogus excuses to void winnings, makes me wanna puke.

 

[casinokoenig]

another email from them - i was waiting to publish it since i wanted to give them the chance to reply in this thread first wich they didnt do by today (this is by now almost two weeks ago) :

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the link. One of our representatives should give an explanation.
But I'll explain briefly - when player opens multiple games it may affect RNG (Random Number Generator). Our casino created this rule to prevent a possibility of any fraudulent activity and leave more chances to win all other players. This is players responsibility to read Terms&Conditions before playing at the casino.

Please do not hesitate to contact our support team in case of any questions.

Sincerely,
ParadiseWin Support

 

[Mouche12]

another email from them - i was waiting to publish it since i wanted to give them the chance to reply in this thread first wich they didnt do by today (this is by now almost two weeks ago) :

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the link. One of our representatives should give an explanation.
But I'll explain briefly - when player opens multiple games it may affect RNG (Random Number Generator). Our casino created this rule to prevent a possibility of any fraudulent activity and leave more chances to win all other players. This is players responsibility to read Terms&Conditions before playing at the casino.

Please do not hesitate to contact our support team in case of any questions.

Sincerely,
ParadiseWin Support

Then why are there plenty casinos where you can play multiple games simultaenously? this is such BS, as has been said before. Poor English too -- "more chances to win all other players"?? I get what they mean and it's total BS too!

I really hope that Maxd can do something about this since their "rule" is clearly unfair and unreasonable. Its sole purpose is to screw players all over.

 

[Jasminebed]

There is one valid reason to have this rule, and it is to prevent grinding a bonus.

Better ways to write such a rule (sorry, late and I am not going back to re-read everything.) Not much of a fan of such rules in general, in fact, casinos stand to lose more in the long haul if players play bigger bets rather than smaller.

But when casinos start spouting nonsense about the RTP being manipulated, just gets my Irish up.

 

[Cocochanel]

I think I would send these people an email asking about RNG and not mention Paradisewin, just a generel question, see what they say about this problem the op has with this casino.





iTech Labs Australia ACN 108 249 761 www.itechlabs.com.auSuite 24, 40 Montclair Ave, Glen Waverley, VIC 3150, Australia. Tel. +61 3 9561 9955
iTech Labs is an IEC/ISO 17025 accredited testing laboratory

 

[maxd]

Hi everyone! Jazz asked me to pop in here and have a look, possibly consider a PAB. I'd be happy to do so, but any in-depth examination of this will have to wait until next week when I'm back in my office (The London conference is in full swing).

@ OP : Please read the PAB FAQ (link is in my signature) and submit a PAB. I can't promise I'll do the PAB for you but I will look it over and give it serious consideration.

Regarding that claim by the casino people that their RNG works like a sausage grinder and they can't have too many games running because that'll clog it up .. oy vey! Welcome back to 1998 folks! We haven't seen that level of lame witless BS in a good many years.

 

[Mechanimal]

Oh wow, this really ruined my morning : ( feels bad, man. Hopefully you'll get your winnings back!

 

[quber]

I think I would send these people an email asking about RNG and not mention Paradisewin, just a generel question, see what they say about this problem the op has with this casino.


iTech Labs Australia ACN 108 249 761 www.itechlabs.com.auSuite 24, 40 Montclair Ave, Glen Waverley, VIC 3150, Australia. Tel. +61 3 9561 9955
iTech Labs is an IEC/ISO 17025 accredited testing laboratory

I would also contact Netent as well and tell them that one of their casinos has told you that their RNG is faulty and let them know about this thread. info@netent.com

 

[casinokoenig]

I would also contact Netent as well and tell them that one of their casinos has told you that their RNG is faulty and let them know about this thread. info@netent.com

Informed and pointed them to this thread aswell.
will PAB now (thanks Max)

 

[incrediblestuff]

Good that you submitted all the info to the people that might actually do something about it, obviously the correct thing would be to pay you, assuming it all went as you described, and i must say i am really interested in how for instance Netent will react to this matter, and how this will pan out for all parties involved.

And thanks Vinyl. i actually missed that part where Galewind paid the player instead, what a commendable thing to do!
Wonder what they are doing these days? Companies like that should be in business...

 

[casinokoenig]

update:
casino claims playing more than one slot machines affects the RNG(!?)

Casino also not willing to return the deposits i ve made (~1k€) see email conversation : "We have returned deposit and bonus to your players account. All previous deposits will not be refunded as we can return deposits only if in case player wins using the bonus and violates Terms & Conditions of the bonus."


Their email and my answer:


... your argument with the play of multiple slot machines affecting the RNG - you would be the first casino to have this happen - there are hundreds of Online Casinos , also with Netent Slots that dont have this rule , yes they even want players to play more than one game at a time so the players lose faster/enjoy the games more because of less boredom.
How are this effects ? And how do you measure them ?
Sorry but to me it just sounds like an excuse to not payout winnings and appearently this opinion also applies to fellow gamblers. I understand theres a max.bet rule and i understand that not all games are allowed if a casino grants a deposit bonus.
BUT
with these comparably quite high wagering requirements, the max. bet rule of 5€ and even not all slot games applicable this "new" additional rule ("its not allowed to play more than one slot machine at once") followed by the the argument with multiple slots affecting the RNG alltough this doesnt appear to happen other Netent Casinos is a little bit hard to understand from a real money players perspective - to me it does more look like a reason for you to not pay winnings to your customers!

But again - please join the public discussion on CM and correct me if im wrong.

Outdated URL (Invalid)



Chris



Am 03.02.2015 um 10:27 schrieb ParadiseWin Support:
> Hello Chris,
>
> We have explained the situation to you before. When player opens multiple games it may affect RNG (Random Number Generator). Our casino created this rule to prevent a possibility of any fraudulent activity and leave more chances to win all other players. This is players responsibility to read Terms&Conditions before playing at the casino. We have returned deposit and bonus to your players account. All previous deposits will not be refunded as we can return deposits only if in case player wins using the bonus and violates Terms & Conditions of the bonus.
> This decision is final and it won't change.
>
> Please do not hesitate to contact our support team in case of any questions.
>
> Sincerely,
> ParadiseWin Support
>

This is their "answer" to my email:

Hello Chris,

Your winnings been cancelled due to Terms&Conditions of ParadiseWin casino violation. This is players responsibility to read the all points of Terms&Conditions before player starts playing. Player confirms that he agreed to T&C when registering an account and once he starts playing. If you think that our company acts against the Terms&Conditions and your winning been cancelled unfairly please do not hesitate to contact our support team at anytime.

Sincerely,
ParadiseWin Support

 

[vinylweatherman]

Good that you submitted all the info to the people that might actually do something about it, obviously the correct thing would be to pay you, assuming it all went as you described, and i must say i am really interested in how for instance Netent will react to this matter, and how this will pan out for all parties involved.

And thanks Vinyl. i actually missed that part where Galewind paid the player instead, what a commendable thing to do!
Wonder what they are doing these days? Companies like that should be in business...

There is no justice, Galewind don't seem to have many takers for their games, but what they did was very rare, possibly unique, and shows that they take the reputation of their software seriously. Hopefully, the trend towards multi provider casinos will give them an opportunity to market their games without having to market them as a "Galewind casino (only) package".

Playtech always look the other way when stuff like this happens, yet justice never seems to catch up with them.

Perhaps NetEnt could be persuaded to "do a Galewind" on this casino, at least to the extent of stripping them of the right to use NetEnt games, as their excuse has more or less claimed that the NetEnt games' RNG can't cope with too many games being run at the same time, and therefore needs to be "shared out" among all players fairly, and policed by having a strict policy of only allowing one player to have one game open at any one time.

If this is true, then NetEnt games could STILL be operating in a non random manner simply because too many individual players, each with one game, are on the system at the same time.

I couldn't even find this term last night, yet I was looking at their general section covering the use of bots, manipulation of the games or software, hacking, fraud, etc. It also allows them to deem anything they seem fit as "manipulation of the games/software", so perhaps this is what they have done here.

They have a Curacao secondary licence, and don't seem to use a known brand multi provider platform (OddsMatrix, for example). The terms also ban UK players from many products, but in fact they should be banning UK players completely as there is no sign of them having a UK licence. Instead, it looks like they accept UK players for products who's providers won't give them a hard time for doing so.

 

[spintee]

There is no justice, Galewind don't seem to have many takers for their games, but what they did was very rare, possibly unique, and shows that they take the reputation of their software seriously. Hopefully, the trend towards multi provider casinos will give them an opportunity to market their games without having to market them as a "Galewind casino (only) package".

Playtech always look the other way when stuff like this happens, yet justice never seems to catch up with them.

Perhaps NetEnt could be persuaded to "do a Galewind" on this casino, at least to the extent of stripping them of the right to use NetEnt games, as their excuse has more or less claimed that the NetEnt games' RNG can't cope with too many games being run at the same time, and therefore needs to be "shared out" among all players fairly, and policed by having a strict policy of only allowing one player to have one game open at any one time.

If this is true, then NetEnt games could STILL be operating in a non random manner simply because too many individual players, each with one game, are on the system at the same time.

I couldn't even find this term last night, yet I was looking at their general section covering the use of bots, manipulation of the games or software, hacking, fraud, etc. It also allows them to deem anything they seem fit as "manipulation of the games/software", so perhaps this is what they have done here.

They have a Curacao secondary licence, and don't seem to use a known brand multi provider platform (OddsMatrix, for example). The terms also ban UK players from many products, but in fact they should be banning UK players completely as there is no sign of them having a UK licence. Instead, it looks like they accept UK players for products who's providers won't give them a hard time for doing so.

Are they excepting players from U.K?

I seen this but found nothing about multy games running

Due to legal regulations ParadiseWin Casino does not accept players from the following territories: United Kingdom, Belgium, Israel, Denmark, Hong Kong, Cyprus, Italy, France, French Guiana, French Polynesia, France and its territories (including French Guiana, French Polynesia, French Southern Territories, Martinique, Guadeloupe, Reunion, Mayotte), Spain, Turkey, USA or US Minor Outlying Islands, Latvia

 

[vinylweatherman]

Are they excepting players from U.K?

I seen this but found nothing about multy games running

Due to legal regulations ParadiseWin Casino does not accept players from the following territories: United Kingdom, Belgium, Israel, Denmark, Hong Kong, Cyprus, Italy, France, French Guiana, French Polynesia, France and its territories (including French Guiana, French Polynesia, French Southern Territories, Martinique, Guadeloupe, Reunion, Mayotte), Spain, Turkey, USA or US Minor Outlying Islands, Latvia

Their terms are a mess. They also have this:-

9.8 Players from the following territories are not eligible to play Games-OS Games: United Kingdom, Belgium, Israel, Denmark, Hong Kong, Cyprus,Italy, France, French Guiana, French Polynesia, France and its territories (including French Guiana, French Polynesia, French Southern Territories, Martinique, Guadeloupe, Reunion, Mayotte), Spain,Turkey, USA or US Minor Outlying Islands, Latvia.

9.9 Players from following countries cannot play Playtech games at ParadiseWin Casino: United Kingdom, Afghanistan, American Samoa,Belgium, Bulgaria, Cuba, Cyprus, Estonia, Guam, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Netherlands Antilles, Northern Mariana Islands , Philippines, Puerto Rico, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, U.S. Virgin Islands, U.S.A., US Minor Outlying Islands, Antiqua and Barbuda, Palestine, France, French Guinea, French Polynesia, French Southern Territories, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Mayotte, Reunion, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Wallis and Futuna, New Caledonia, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Dominica, Grenada, Guyana, Haiti, Jamaica, Montserrat, Saint Kitts and Nevis, LC Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Suriname, Trinidad and Tobago.

9.10 SBTech Sportsbook product is not offered to players residing in United Kingdom, Bulgaria and Israel.

9.11 Net Entertainment games 'Scarface' and 'Frankenstein' are offered only to players residing in the following countries: United Kingdom, Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, Israel, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Switzerland, Ukraine, Croatia, Macedonia, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden and United Kingdom.

9.11 ALLOWS players from the UK to play NetEnt games, and they are even in a special sub group able to play the two additional games 'Scarface' and 'Frankenstein' .

9.11 is inconsistent with a blanket ban on UK players, and 9.8, 9.9, and 9.10 ban UK players from specific products, pointless if they are overridden by a term banning UK players completely.

Still no sign of the term used to confiscate the OP's winnings though.

Section 11 seems to cover a pretty wide definition of "fraud" though:-

11. COLLUSION, CHEATING, FRAUD AND CRIMINAL ACTIVITY

11.1 The following practices (or any of them) in relation to the Services :

abuse of bonuses or other promotions; and/or

using unfair external factors or influences (commonly known as cheating); and/or

taking unfair advantage (as defined in paragraph 11.5.3);

opening any Duplicate Accounts; and/or

undertaking fraudulent practice or criminal activity (as defined in paragraph 11.5),

constitute "Prohibited Practices" and are not permitted and will constitute a material breach of the Terms of Use. We will take all reasonable steps to prevent and detect such practices and to identify the relevant players concerned if they do occur. Subject to the above, however, we will not be liable for any loss or damage which You may incur as a result of any Prohibited Practices, and any action we take in respect of the same will be at our sole discretion.

11.2 If You suspect a person is engaged in any Prohibited Practice, You shall as soon as reasonably practicable report it to us by e-mailing us or telephoning Customer Services.

11.3 You agree that You shall not participate in or be connected with any form of Prohibited Practice in connection with Your access to or use of the Services.

11.4 If:

11.4.1 we have reasonable grounds to believe that You have participated in or have been connected with any form of Prohibited Practice (and the basis of our belief shall include the use by us (and by our gaming partners and our other suppliers) of any fraud, cheating and collusion detection practices which are used in the gambling and gaming industry at the relevant time); or

11.4.2 You have placed bets and/or played online games with any other online provider of gambling services and are suspected (as a result of such play) of any Prohibited Practice or otherwise improper activity; or

11.4.3 we become aware that You have "charged back" or denied any of the purchases or deposits that You made to Your Account; or

11.4.4 You become bankrupt or suffer analogous proceedings anywhere in the world,

then, (including in connection with any suspension and/or termination of Your Account) we shall have the right, in respect of Your Account (and/or any other account held by You with a HighWeb Ventures N.V. company) to withhold the whole or part of the balance and/or recover from the account the amount of any deposits, pay-outs, bonuses or winnings which have been affected by or are in any way attributable to any of the event(s) contemplated in this paragraph 11.4. The rights set out in this paragraph 11.4 are without prejudice to any other rights (including any common law rights) that we may have against You, whether under the Terms of Use or otherwise.

11.5 For the purposes of this paragraph 11:

11.5.1 a "fraudulent practice" means any fraudulent activity engaged in by You or by any person acting on Your behalf or in collusion with You, and shall include, without limitation: (a) fraudulent charge-backs; (b) the use by You or any other person who was participating in the same game as You at any time, of a stolen, cloned or otherwise unauthorized credit or debit card, as a source of funds; (c) the collusion by You with others in order to gain an unfair advantage (including through bonus schemes or similar incentives offered by us); (d) any attempt to register false or misleading account information; (e) any actual or attempted act by You which is reasonably deemed by us to be illegal in any applicable jurisdiction, made in bad faith, or intended to defraud us and/or circumvent any contractual or legal restrictions, regardless of whether such act or attempted act actually causes us any damage or harm;

11.5.2 a "criminal activity" shall include, without limitation, money laundering and any offence under of the Gambling Act; and

11.5.3 an "unfair advantage" shall include, without limitation:

11.5.3.1 the exploitation of a fault, loophole or error in our or any third party's software used by You in connection with the Services (including in respect of any game);

11.5.3.2 the use of automated players ('bots'), or other 3rd party software or analysis systems; or

11.5.3.3 the exploitation by You, of an 'Error' as defined in paragraph 18.1, in any case either to Your advantage and/or to the disadvantage of us or other.

11.6 In exercising any of our rights under paragraph 11.4 in relation to a Prohibited Practice, we shall use all reasonable endeavors to ensure that, while complying with our regulatory and other legal obligations, we exercise such rights in a manner which is fair to You and to our other customers.

11.7 We reserve the right to inform relevant authorities, other online gaming or gambling operators, other online service providers and banks, credit card companies, electronic payment providers or other financial institutions of Your identity and of any suspected Prohibited Practice by You, and You shall cooperate fully with us to investigate any such activity.

18.1.4 where an error has been made as a result of a Prohibited Practice under paragraph 11.1

It seems their case relies on the opening of more than one game causing the software to make errors in resolving outcomes, as if it does not, then these terms all fail to cover this case.

The "non exhaustive" nature of the lists in the terms means that they can define anything they like as being covered, even if it's not specifically against the terms.

The only way they can justify their stance is by having their claim that the RNG and outcomes of NetEnt games can be influenced to the advantage of a player (and to the unfair disadvantage of others) through the opening and playing of more than one game at any one time. This is only credible if the outcomes are partly dependent on past events like AWPs, and that how a player is playing now can affect their chances of winning in the future.

It seems that they believe that the 5 scatters on DOA were somehow the result of the game and/or RNG being "forced" in some way like an AWP can be "forced" to deliver a jackpot spin with the right playing technique.

 

[FAZI1]

150% Net Ent Bonus with wagering 40 x deposit + bonus + " The following Slot Games will only contribute 70% towards wagering requirement, meaning every €1 wagered on the following games will reduce the bonus wagering requirement by €0.70: Blood Suckers, Creature From The Black Lagoon, Eggomatic, Elements The Awakening, Fisticuffs, Gonzo's Quest, Lights, Magic Portals, Mythic Maiden, Reel Rush, Retro Super 80s, Secret of the Stones, Starburst, The Wish Master, Twin Spin, Wild Turkey *Both web and mobile versions of the above games are included." + max cashauts 50 x deposit amount.


And if somone finnaly finish wagering with to big amount in accont they find excuse to not pay even with ridicolus reason like in this case.....

Lets say true if you finish wagering in this case with small or medium amount like 100€-250€ then they will send payments without problem But you finish wagering with High amount so they must find some reason to void payments.

 

[asm]

What I think is most disturbing about this, that even if their set of rules which are borderline indecipherable, somehow can be interpreted as rule-breaking...

the software provider(s) will not do anything. I think it's absurd. Not that I am suggesting NETENT or any other entity should pony up money casinos owe to people, but the least they should do is remove their products from the hands of cheaters so others do not have to go through with things like these.

Some of the terms and bonus conditions are predatory and impossible, and software companies are fully complicit in letting customers be cheated regardless of the actual outcome of the wagers. Disgraceful.

 

[casinokoenig]

Hi again.

i withdrew 125 € (my last deposit before "winning" the 11k€) today - i submitted a PAB but appearently the site operators remained silent (of course since their argument about affected RNG´s is just plain bollox)

Its still hurting a lot and i dont like to think/write about all this - i didnt break any rule while playing except their invented "multiple slots at a time rule"

They stole 11k € by not paying out the 5 Scatter DOA Win (wich the high variance Slot machine paid to me) - i cant do anything about it anymore than to try to forget it (but sure not forgive it) and to wish this company all the worst and of course to warn all fellow gamblers:

DON´T DEPOSIT / PLAY AT PARADISEWIN.COM !

 

[Booo73]

I just registered with them simply because I was bored and they offered free spins. Didn't see this thread until now. Thought this might show how deceiptful they are. I played the couple of bucks I won on Stickers. Didn't win squat, however, on the side board where they show the winners apparently I won $10 on Stickers. NOT!!! How can they get away with showing false wins like that. I would stay away from this place at all costs if that's what they're playing at.