[CLOSED] Bwin.com banned my account

[daminc]

Recently Bwin.com banned my betting account with more than 100 EUR in it. No explanations, they just returned my first deposit (10 EUR). It was my first (and last) expirience with Bwin, why the heck do they ban innocent accounts??

Seems that player's winnings are strictly prohibited at this shitty place

See Related Threads:

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• Bwin Closed My Account...
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[maxd]

I see their rep hasn't been around for a few days so I'll PM them about this.

 

[bwin]

hello

this are very serious accusations and I will do my best to find out what happened - but please be aware that I am the bwin Casino representative and the sportsbook division is not related to me at all, so I have to forward this case to the sportsbook people in charge.
please do also keep in mind that because of the Christmas holidays andanswer and possible solution may take up to 1 week at the moment. but I can assure you that we want people to win - they are the best publicity for a "gaming with stakes" operator and bwin as a public company tries to be as transparent and trustworthy as possible. what happened to you is exactly what we do NOT want, but maybe it was a simple mistake.
I will keep you in the loop and get back to you as soon as possible - I hope you can still enjoy Christmas and I wish you a happy and very lucky new year.

Br

p.s. can you please PM me your exact bwin username?
Benjamin

 

[diamond]

hello

this are very serious accusations and I will do my best to find out what happened - but please be aware that I am the bwin Casino representative and the sportsbook division is not related to me at all, so I have to forward this case to the sportsbook people in charge.
please do also keep in mind that because of the Christmas holidays andanswer and possible solution may take up to 1 week at the moment. but I can assure you that we want people to win - they are the best publicity for a "gaming with stakes" operator and bwin as a public company tries to be as transparent and trustworthy as possible. what happened to you is exactly what we do NOT want, but maybe it was a simple mistake.
I will keep you in the loop and get back to you as soon as possible - I hope you can still enjoy Christmas and I wish you a happy and very lucky new year.

Br

p.s. can you please PM me your exact bwin username?
Benjamin

I was so provoked by your post, that I just had to answer it. My experience within the casino business is really small, so I dont comment on these issues. But you seem to lack experience within the sportsbook business, and I think working for one of BWIN divisions, doesnt make your word too trustworthy.

Let me point out, that I have worked myself around 7 years within the business, before quitting last year (you get tired). Let me point out that the following statement is based on the sportsbook part, maybe the casino is doing better.

BWIN is famously known for closing accounts without no reason. If you ask them WHY, its almost always sent out a standard reply. They are seen as a little devil in the branch. Your statement: but I can assure you that we want people to win, is probably the biggest lie and false statement of the year, if you consider this the sportsbook part, which I have to since its posted here. BWIN is known for not allowing people win big sums. They do offer a large varity of sports and an excellent live betting, but their customer service is among the worst in the business. You will get paid, always, as long as you have not scammed them, but it can truly take time. No other sportsbook in Europe close accounts (even if its only one per household), as often as BWIN do.

Just search around the net, you will see numerous complaints. I do know that often people try to scam a bookie,but I can confirm alot of these rumours knowing people that have worked there and still work.

I would not recommend BWIN SPORTSBOOK to anyone.

 

[wangpoker]

diamond
In addition, bwin has worse odds!

 

[bwin]

hello

regarding the closed accounts: I consider this very valuable feedback and I will forward it to the people in charge.
I can only speak directly on behalf of bwin Casino and I can assure you that we have no problems with big winnings and we don't block casino players because they are making money. Every good casino operator wants them to keep playing, because over time the house advantage is on the operators side - the worst thing you can do, is to block a player because he is winning!
Sportsbook is for sure a different world, but it is not my world and we - myself included - will have to wait for a reply from our sportsbook guys.

Like you can imagine, bwin is a huge company with over 1000 employees and responsibilities must be split within product divisions. So please be patient for and answer from our sportsbook responsibles.

Thank you for your patience

Benjamin

 

[maxd]

Thank you for your prompt attention to this Benjamin. Any idea when we can expect to hear back from your Sportsbook people? A few hours? A day? A week?

 

[bwin]

hi

here follows an update:

I got the following information:

the user "daminc" who started the thread, abused our "refer a friend bonus" by offering to send invitation letters to everyone who wanted to get that "refer a friend bonus" in an internet forum. this violates the 2 of of the terms and conditions of this bonus "Within the scope of the Friendship Bonus programme, e-mails may only be sent to persons whom the referrer knows personally ("prohibition of spamming")."

so our fraud and risk management department decided to close the customers account and refund his initial real money deposit but not to refund the winnings generated with a combination of real and bonus money. I also got the information that "this user was informed that his account was closed for security reasons, that he will get his deposit back, and that the account will not be reopened."

the only negative point from my point of view is, that the mail to the customer does not clearly state the reason for the closure, it says very generic "security reasons" - this is something where we need to improve.

I hope this is a satisfying answer.

best regards

Benjamin

 

[maxd]

daminc, can you confirm that this is what happened?

 

[maxd]

Changing the thread title to something more representative of the case at hand.

(Yes, this was done at BWin's request. The point is to resolve the problem, not crucify the operators.)

 

[ThodorisK]

Bwin was the only casino which closed my account, obviously because of "bonus abusing". There was a 100 euros bonus, and I was betting 1-3 euros at blackjack. I started winning (unfortunatelly) about 30 euros, and then they closed my account, voiding both the bonus and my winnings. This "right" of the online casinos of locking the accounts with the excuse of "bonus abuse" is a fraud, a cheatery practice. Because they void your winnings if you win, but they dont refund your losses if you lose. If you win, you win zero. If you lose, you lose the amount you lost. If that is not stealing, then what is?

Betwin, GO TO HELL.

 

[GaryWatson]

Bwin was the only casino which closed my account, obviously because of "bonus abusing". There was a 100 euros bonus, and I was betting 1-3 euros at blackjack. I started winning (unfortunatelly) about 30 euros, and then they closed my account, voiding both the bonus and my winnings. This "right" of the online casinos of locking the accounts with the excuse of "bonus abuse" is a fraud, a cheatery practice. Because they void your winnings if you win, but they dont refund your losses if you lose. If you win, you win zero. If you lose, you lose the amount you lost. If that is not stealing, then what is?

Betwin, GO TO HELL.

Thodo, what are you doing? Ive probably pissed off more sites than you and only been locked from 1. Another 2 times were over info, once I passed the details, they reopened.

Im guessing, you either hate gambling full stop or have been caught scamming. if not, chill out and enjoy the chat

 

[maxd]

It looks like the player has gone off-line, the same day they posted it seems. Based on this and the lack of replies to PMs I'm marking this one "CLOSED".

Daminc, feel free to post back here if you return. As I've said the first thing we need to know is whether you did in fact violate the terms of the "refer a friend" bonus.

 

[daminc]

the user "daminc" who started the thread, abused our "refer a friend bonus" by offering to send invitation letters to everyone who wanted to get that "refer a friend bonus" in an internet forum. this violates the 2 of of the terms and conditions of this bonus "Within the scope of the Friendship Bonus programme, e-mails may only be sent to persons whom the referrer knows personally ("prohibition of spamming")."

What are You smoking, er??

I haven't sent even 1 invitation, and of course I do not remember "offering to send invitation letters to everyone who wanted to get that" in ANY internet forum. Could You please point to that forum post, if it really exist?
That's just ridiculous accusation 8( Heck, I even hadn't enough time to do that, you banned me so quickly - just after 2 wins in a row.

 

[vinylweatherman]

What are You smoking, er??

I haven't sent even 1 invitation, and of course I do not remember "offering to send invitation letters to everyone who wanted to get that" in ANY internet forum. Could You please point to that forum post, if it really exist?
That's just ridiculous accusation 8( Heck, I even hadn't enough time to do that, you banned me so quickly - just after 2 wins in a row.

I would like to know how any operator can be sure that forum posts are the work of an account holder who they then ban. If you didn't do this, you would either have referred nobody, or would be able to show that those you did refer were indeed just friends.

This is a common "trick", and casinos really leave themselves open to this by running these "refer a friend" programs. Since this is about "spam", it then begs the question "what is spam". If a forum ALLOWS this kind of thing to be posted, and is even designed for members to exchange this kind of offer, then it is NOT "spam", and does not violate anti-spam terms any more than it would be spam if I opted into receiving Bwin newsletters.
Most casinos offer only a certain number of "refer a friend" bonuses per player, which prevents this kind of problem getting out of control.

If you are indeed "guilty as charged" (yet to be proven), then you would have been better off becoming an affiliate, and earning money that way. It would be up to any forum owner to decide whether to allow the offers to be posted. Some do, but many do not (Casinomeister does NOT now, although it has been tolerated in the past in "strictly commercial" only).

A far bigger problem is where a fraudster misuses the refer a friend scheme to open "gnome" accounts, and thus obtain enhanced levels of bonus above what could be achieved simply by opening multiple accounts.

daminc is also prone to "guilty by association" determinations, just as the Danes are, based purely on country of residence (Russia).

 

[bwin]

@vinylweatherman

if the poster includes a referrer/affiliate url in his post, he is pretty easy to track down.

but I agree that the "guilty by association" thing is a big problem - but not only for bwin, but for all betting and gaming operators. from my experience risk departments prefer to block one player too much instead of letting a cheater, fraudster or whatever slip through the net. understandable from their point of view, but not ideal from my and the customers point of view.

I was not involved in the decision about closing the account of daminc, I just forwarded the information I got from the departments in charge.

Now to daminc:

If you want to know more about the detailed reason why you have been blocked, please get back to me either in this thread or via PM. I will then try to kickoff a detailed investigation and try to get some more details about the reasons for your account closure. But as this will be a very time consuming process I will you only start it if you tell me to do so.

Looking forward to keep the discussion with you guys going.

Kind regards

Benjamin

 

[daminc]

Of course I want to know why the heck I was blocked and robbed out of my money at Bwin.

( What pisses me the most is situation is that I am casino affiliate myself, and seeing any Bwin ad say in paperback CAP Magazine, I think to myself NOT the "well, I'd better try them soon", but "how dare these thieves to advertise at all???"

Really stupid, Bwin, really stupid!
Yeah, you've got my 100 Euros, but lost me as an affiliate, forever. My sites get around 13-14K visitors monthly, and guess when Bwin ads would be there?? Ha ha, NEVER! )

 

[The Dude]

Bwin wrote:

...
If you want to know more about the detailed reason why you have been blocked, please get back to me either in this thread or via PM. I will then try to kickoff a detailed investigation and try to get some more details about the reasons for your account closure. But as this will be a very time consuming process I will you only start it if you tell me to do so.

Looking forward to keep the discussion with you guys going.

Kind regards

Benjamin

and Daminc replied (my bolding):

Of course I want to know why the heck I was blocked and robbed out of my money at Bwin.

( What pisses me the most is situation is that I am casino affiliate myself, and seeing any Bwin ad say in paperback CAP Magazine, I think to myself NOT the "well, I'd better try them soon", but "how dare these thieves to advertise at all???"

Really stupid, Bwin, really stupid!
Yeah, you've got my 100 Euros, but lost me as an affiliate, forever. My sites get around 13-14K visitors monthly, and guess when Bwin ads would be there?? Ha ha, NEVER! )

So we have Bwin reaching out making an attempt to resolve this problem, yet the affiliate chooses to lash out.

My advice to Bwin - just walk away from this one.

@ daminc

Please school yourself on forum etiquette and normal social behaviour. If someone is willing to help you out and solve your problems, don't call them a crook and thief - and especially if they are a member of this forum. Thank you.

 

[bwin]

*walking away from this one*

 

[daminc]

Sorry, mr. Casinomeister. "My bad" :notworthy

Hope that Bwin will someday change it's owner to become a more player-friendly company.

 

[cybernox]

@daminc: Mate if you are innocent then I expect you to ask Bwin for a reply. Else forget it. Being an ASS wont help in any situation.

 

[maxd]

daminc hasn't been on-site for several months and the previous post in this thread was about 16 months old.

Are you seriously expecting a reply? At this point you'd be a lot better off PMing the person in the hope that they have notifications turned on.

Resurrecting an old thread like this is a bit of a public nuisance unless there's really something new to add.