Resolved BWIN closed my account after inquiring about cashout.

KostyaMarinov

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Location
Canada
Greetings,

I made an account initially with BWIN to utilize their free poker play tables.
After some time, I deposited some US dollars into the account, played the real money tables, and made some profit.

However, when I made the account, my first and last name that I filled out was an online handle (I didn't see the importance of having this properly filled out!).

I realized that in order to make a cashout, I would need to upload identification. I wrote BWIN to inquire about my situation, and if they could adjust the first and last name to that of my identification. The name on the identification is the same name that is on the credit card used to make the deposit. In the email, I also supplied them with my true name, date of birth, and address.

BWIN replied to me that the information I provided did not match that on my account (obviously! Because I gave them my actual name, and not the online handle!) and that they reserved the right to not pay out customers with inaccuracies in the information they provided, and that my account would now be closed.

1.) I wrote BWIN to correct the problem at hand. Their solution was to summarily close my account, and advise me to send identification to them. (If I do, will they not just reiterate that my information does not match up?)

2.) If I really was not who I claimed I was, BWIN sure made it easy for any stranger to have the ability to close any other persons account simply by inquiring about personal information changes!

I had high hopes for this site. I genuinely liked it, and unless they intend to make my stay on their site enjoyable and hassle free, they've lost my business, and likely those who come across this post.

BWIN does not let me win.

I must bring forward the fact that it would be a careless decision on my behalf to release all my 'correct details' to a website I've not yet verified as legitimate. To release your full name, date of birth, and address to anyone is dangerous enough, let alone an online service! I remind you, that I initially signed up to take advantage of the 'free poker'. If I had known such complications would arise, I may have reconsidered my entries and indeed given them my full real name. Alas, I did not expect them to close my account, and freeze my funds simply for inquiring how I could go about correcting the issue. Clearly, I have no fraudulent aspirations, as I am willing to work alongside with them to correct the issue - and continue using their service.


Advice, anyone?
 

vegetagirl2008

Mafia Wars Level 472
Joined
May 10, 2008
Location
Brooklyn, New York, United States
However, when I made the account, my first and last name that I filled out was an online handle (I didn't see the importance of having this properly filled out!).

How do you figure that doing a incomplete form that you will get your winnings. So you expect the casino to pay you because you didn't want to give them any information. And could you explain what your situation may be as to why you couldn't give them all of your details?
 

KostyaMarinov

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Location
Canada
How do you figure that doing a incomplete form that you will get your winnings. So you expect the casino to pay you because you didn't want to give them any information. And could you explain what your situation may be as to why you couldn't give them all of your details?

Greetings,

I did not provide them with an incomplete form. The form was complete, the only variation on the form of importance was the first, and last name. How do I expect a casino to pay me for my winnings? Because I am providing them information. I provided them a credit card, which they were willing to withdraw from, that matches the identification that states my name, and date of birth I provided -which they requested. Is this not a reasonable amount of information? I certainly believe this shouldn't warrant a closure of an account, or detaining non-fraudulent earnings.

As for why I did not provide the proper first or last name initially; I addressed this in my initial post.
 

KostyaMarinov

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Location
Canada
*UPDATE*

After sending my relevant information to BWIN customer service, I got the following email reply:

"Dear Mr Marinov,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Please note the ID copy you have sent us is not for the person registered on the bwin account, i.e yourself.

We kindly request you send us a copy of your own ID which is needed to proceed.

We thank you for your cooperation."

---

Perhaps they failed to read the entire email, but in there, I explained that the name Kostya Marinov is an online handle. I gave them my real name (along with the photo identification), yet they proceeded to respond back to my email address, referring to me as Mr. Marinov, and explaining that the identification I sent them was not mine.

This is beyond unhelpful. This is bordering on arrogance, and insult.

I have forwarded a complaint to ECOGRA, which is the regulatory body that provides them the 'FAIR AND SAFE' seal which they hold. Furthermore, I have sent a dispute resolution request to my credit card provider in regards to BWIN withdrawing funds from an account which they themselves claim is not originating from the account holder.

I suggest anybody who has similar issues with BWIN, undertake similar steps.

I will keep the forum updated of BWIN's actions.

Sincerely,
Patryk.
 

vegetagirl2008

Mafia Wars Level 472
Joined
May 10, 2008
Location
Brooklyn, New York, United States
When you signed up you used your online handle. I see the mix-up but they accepted your credit card with your real name and didn't question it seems utterly dumb in my opinion. But that is a user and not what you use to complete the form was it?
 

big_mac

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Location
uk
I'm afraid that giving a false name is seen as a big problem; I very much doubt that you will get any help with this.

Furthermore, I have sent a dispute resolution request to my credit card provider in regards to BWIN withdrawing funds from an account which they themselves claim is not originating from the account holder.

That's an even bigger problem - and an illustration of why using false details will mean that you don't get paid.

Now that you are claiming that you didn't originate the transactions, how do they know that you weren't going to do that if you had lost? I am not doubting that your intentions were honest, but your actions were the same as somebody who is attempting fraud.
 

Boris303

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Location
London
I must bring forward the fact that it would be a careless decision on my behalf to release all my 'correct details' to a website I've not yet verified as legitimate. To release your full name, date of birth, and address to anyone is dangerous enough, let alone an online service!

Ok, so you say you see it as careless to give your real name when signing up for an account, because they might not be legitimate?

But isn't it careless of you to make sure your details weren't legitimate before you deposited there?

I suspect there's more going on here than your telling us, are you sure it was your card you used to deposit?
 

KostyaMarinov

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Location
Canada
Now that you are claiming that you didn't originate the transactions, how do they know that you weren't going to do that if you had lost? I am not doubting that your intentions were honest, but your actions were the same as somebody who is attempting fraud.

Friend,

I called my credit card company for their input. I, personally, do not wait for things to evolve themselves. I explained the situation to the credit card company, and inquired what I could do about it. They stated if the company will not release the account, or the money, they can put in a complaint dispute on my behalf. I fail to understand how you equate looking over my options to have my account reopened, and my funds unfreezed as fraud.

Similarly, I HAVE lost money before on BWIN, and I did not dispute those charges on my card. This is not the same case, as BWIN has closed my account and held my winnings. Myself, or my credit card company, are inclined and permitted to inquire as to why BWIN willingly charged the card in the past for losses, and now have an issue with the winnings.

In the future, please refrain from attempting to associate my actions as equal to fraud. I merely asked the company to adjust my online handle to my first and last name, and provided them all the information they required to do. As a paying customer, I should be treated as such - not insulted for my patronage, and equated to a fraudster.

Many thanks.
 

KostyaMarinov

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Location
Canada
I suspect there's more going on here than your telling us, are you sure it was your card you used to deposit?



I have uploaded my passport, which is in the same name of the credit card, to BWIN. I have insisted they contact my credit card company, Mastercard, to verify my identify. I have offered to upload them a copy of the credit card (after I notify Mastercard that I intend to do so), as well as provide any other means of verification they may require.

Fortunately, your suspicions are unwarranted. I remind you, I contacted BWIN first to inquire what I could do to assist in entering the correct fields I initially didn't. I understand I should have originally put my correct first and last name, but I was just testing the site, and I am careful about what details I reveal about my personal nature and to where. I came to trust the site, and enjoy my time there, so I wanted to inquire what I may do to resolve that issue.

Also, I realize because I am a new poster I may have a stigma of some sorts - but that doesn't necessitate assuming I am attempting to manipulate you some deception. I am simply expressing what has occured to me.
 

vegetagirl2008

Mafia Wars Level 472
Joined
May 10, 2008
Location
Brooklyn, New York, United States
Now that being said what do you want CasinoMeister to do for you? All I can tell you right now is start from the beginning and provide these people your real name and address. If you feel that you don't want to provide this information then you need not to play online. Period. I have another question have you been gambling long and are you underaged? Because no one tests a gambling site unless they are planing on losing or winning..
 

Boris303

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 17, 2008
Location
London
Ok, so you say you see it as careless to give your real name when signing up for an account, because they might not be legitimate?

But isn't it careless of you to make sure your details weren't legitimate before you deposited there?

Ok fair enough, but you didn't answer my question.

I wouldn't have entered the incorrect information in the first place, but if i did, then i wanted to deposit there, i would have definitely got my names sorted out before i deposited anything there at all.
 

big_mac

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Location
uk
Similarly, I HAVE lost money before on BWIN, and I did not dispute those charges on my card.
You didn't say anything about previous deposits, nor when they were; are you considering disputing those transaction(s) also?

In the future, please refrain from attempting to associate my actions as equal to fraud.
I am not accusing you of fraud. I said that the actions you made looked like attempted fraud; I can explain if you like....

It would be very easy for somebody to sign up and give false information. If they keep losing they can dispute the transactions, and if they mange to win they can claim it was just a mistake and provide all of the correct information and ask to get paid.

That would be fraudulent, but how can the casino tell that you are not one of those people?
 

rockydyke

Full Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Location
florida
I think most casino's look for a reason not to pay out if they don't have to. And you gave them one big reason. I would never give any name other than my own when signing up at a casino. Sorry you made that mistake but if I was the casino I would not pay you.
 

KostyaMarinov

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Location
Canada
I realize the mistake of not providing them my first and last name. This was my first online poker experience. I wrote them to correct the issue, and my account was closed. I've never disputed any loses, and I'm not disputing anything now, other than BWIN's reluctance to authenticate my identity. What is worse, is that I will be forbidden from using BWIN from now on, as I cannot just go and make another account - as that would be in voilation of their multiple account clause - so in reality, for seeking to correct this problem - I have effectively been banned from using BWIN's services in the future, as well as had my account balance confiscated - even though I am doing everything in my effort to resolve this situation.

That to me, is a bit extreme.

What do I expect Casinomeister to do? Nothing. However, this is a sportsbook forum, and I am lodging my complaint in regards to their customer service in the correct forum thread. The best I expect this forum to do for me is to read my thread, and to show off your right to opinion as well.

Thanks.
 

vegetagirl2008

Mafia Wars Level 472
Joined
May 10, 2008
Location
Brooklyn, New York, United States
No, I am not underage.

And I highly doubt your statement that no one tests a gambling site is correct.

I don't test a gambling site unless I am are using a free chip and I give the casino my real name as I might win at that casino. As you stated you have lost with BWIN so obviously you were not testing their site. So that statement you made is incorrect.

Well I hope everything works out for you.
 

jas2587

Ueber Meister
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
FL
I realize the mistake of not providing them my first and last name. This was my first online poker experience. I wrote them to correct the issue, and my account was closed. I've never disputed any loses, and I'm not disputing anything now, other than BWIN's reluctance to authenticate my identity. What is worse, is that I will be forbidden from using BWIN from now on, as I cannot just go and make another account - as that would be in voilation of their multiple account clause - so in reality, for seeking to correct this problem - I have effectively been banned from using BWIN's services in the future, as well as had my account balance confiscated - even though I am doing everything in my effort to resolve this situation.

That to me, is a bit extreme.

What do I expect Casinomeister to do? Nothing. However, this is a sportsbook forum, and I am lodging my complaint in regards to their customer service in the correct forum thread. The best I expect this forum to do for me is to read my thread, and to show off your right to opinion as well.

Thanks.

You gave false information which is FRAUD you lost on all your deposits except for this 1 time that you won there for you notify them that you are some one else (( your real name))) how would they know

as for letting you deposit with the credit card it isnt like they are right there watchin you swipe the card an see what name is on that CC ((you type that info in)) they dont see the card

I doubt they even see any of this info until a player goes to do a withdrawel an then they check out the info id etc etc

an you got caught an are crying foul when you LIED to begin with

IMO you lose

Cindy:rolleyes:
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Hello KostyaMarinov,

Max Drayman writing, I'm the Player Grievance Manager at Casinomeister.com and the guy that handles the PABs.

In the last 48 hours you have posted a PAB, PMd me, and posted this thread in the forums all to get attention to your problem.

Normally I would say "make up your mind". If you had read the Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ you would have seen the section entitled "Q: I have already, or would like to, post about my complaint on the message boards. Is that a good idea?" wherein you'll find:
A: Generally speaking, no, it is not a good idea. It's a long story but it boils down to this: a PAB is a private negotiation process and it works because it gives the casino people the best possible opportunity to resolve your issue calmly and fairly in talks with professional industry people without the burden of external pressures or influence.

A message posted on the boards is quite the opposite situation in that it creates a very public public-relations issue that the casino people generally feel forced to contain, or ignore, as best they can.

Because of the pressures involved a forum post on a given issue will usually derail any PABs that are in progress on that issue, and this is why we advise that forum posts be withheld until the PAB process has had a chance to run it's course.

We reserve the right to discard any PAB that where that same issue has been posted to the boards. This relates to threads started by, or contributions to other threads by, the person who filed the PAB. This applies equally to posts made before or after the PAB was filed.

In other words in the case where the material was posted before the PAB was filed we will determine whether those posts would damage or thwart the PAB process before we decide if we will proceed with the PAB. In the case where the material was posted after the PAB was filed there is a very high probability that we will suspend or discard the PAB at that point.

So, in this case I'm simply going to toss your PAB, ignore your PM and wish you luck here on the forums.

If you have a problem in the future I suggest you take ONE approach to the problem at a time. Ask yourself a few questions:
  1. Do I want this handled privately and (somewhat) formally? In that case a PAB is the method of choice.
  2. Or do I want immediate help from the mods? There your PM makes sense.
  3. Or do I want this as public as possible, the subject of open debate and I'll take my chances as to where it goes? That would bring us to a post on the forums.

Dumping your tales of woe anywhere and everywhere you can think of across the site only pisses people -- namely Me -- off.

Now you might say "Hey, sorry, new here. Only trying to get some action on my issue." In that case I'd say that the best response to not knowing what to do is not to do whatever you feel like or pops into your head. Ignorance is a mediocre excuse and a piss-poor reason.

Next time try asking a question and getting some guidance before you run around making a pest of yourself. As it is you've made a mess of things before people even get a chance to know you and offer the assistance that would normally be available to you.

Anyway, good luck with this. Your PAB has been discarded.

Regards,
Max.
 
Last edited:

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Hi KostyaMarinov,

And welcome to the forum.

One thing about posting complaints is that you need to make sure you read and follow the instructions:

2.2 - Do not post a complaint without notifying the appropriate casino representative by either PM or email. The casino representatives are listed here.

Do you PM Bwin? https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

This is how you get things done when taking on issues on your own. Post your complaint and then notify the casino rep. By not doing so only permits your complaint to linger or become a debatable item - nothing really gets done...

I've PMd the rep for you, so hopefully this matter will be taken care of soon.
 

KostyaMarinov

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Location
Canada
My apologies to those I have agitated, and my thanks to those who sent their support!

To those who are quick to critic, and judge - you come across as elitist, and you work against fostering a welcoming environment to new users on this forum.

I wish you all the best of luck.
 

big_mac

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2004
Location
uk
Well, I guess that I wasn't very friendly, sorry.

I was trying to warn you that things don't look good for you. Giving false information is a pretty major problem for any casino, and you need to realise that they have to be able to protect themselves from fraud.
As I said, your actions do look just like the sort of thing that a fraudster would do, which is why you are getting such a hard time. People here have seen it all before, many times.

If you are going to gamble online then you really need to be much more careful. Always read *all* of the terms and conditions that apply, even the super-secret hidden ones that you have to go looking for.
In many places, if you give them the slightest excuse to not pay you, then that is what will happen; and you almost only ever find out that there is a problem when you try and withdraw your money.

Why not stick around here, read a few threads, and see what advice you can pick up?
 

KostyaMarinov

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Location
Canada
UPDATE: Bwin has contacted me, and informed me that they will release my Bwin balance into my bank account information once I provide it. However, my account will remain close, and I am prohibited from making any future accounts with Bwin.

To me, the second condition is a bit disappointing. I do not like to burn bridges.
I appreciate Bwin for doing as much as they have in light of my situation.

Time to find a new poker room.

Be well, I'll be lurking the forum!
 
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