Betfair issues (was On Probation)

[premiergaming]

Brilliant post. Every company has ripped someone off at some time or another so why hold it against them.

Thats not something you can say to be honest, My mother runs a clothes shop and she has never ripped anyone off?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Vinyl.....what was the PPI thingy?

It was the mis-selling of Payment Protection Insurance.

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The total bill for the mis-selling of payment protection insurance (PPI) has topped £12bn, with Lloyds setting aside a further £1bn last week and Barclays allocating an additional £700m. At RBS, parent company to NatWest, the group announced it has put aside an extra £400m to compensate customers, bringing its total to £1.7bn.

PPI is now turning into the worst financial mis-selling scandal in history. So what were the banks up to, and how did they push worthless insurance on to millions of customers? One former NatWest employee, who worked in a branch in the north of England between 2002 and 2004, reveals the intense pressure staff were under to sell PPI:

 

[topoor]

Thats not something you can say to be honest, My mother runs a clothes shop and she has never ripped anyone off?

oh dear. A lesson required in satire methinks

 

[premiergaming]

Not no really i no exactly what it means , You didnt put it like that and doesnt seem t be like that..? lol

 

[topoor]

A confused face with question marks on it, at the end of the sentence clearly showing it wasnt a statement. Doesnt that suggest something isnt black and white to you? Judging by GOCCs response he seemed to realise it wasnt an endorsement!

Anyway, so this thread doesnt get derailed any further. It was a satirical post. Im sure your mum runs a fair and decent business. I know Betfair hasnt though and thats whats important.

 

[ThePOGG]

I do agree that the process is worthwhile if it gets EVERYONE (or their estates etc) paid.

Vinyl.....what was the PPI thingy?

It's a worthwhile process even if it only gets some of the players who were wronged paid. Every single one of these customers deserves the money they're rightly owed and some getting paid is better than none. It just seems a very low cost when Betfair only have to pay some of the customers to get out of the rogue pit.

 

[chayton]

It's a worthwhile process even if it only gets some of the players who were wronged paid. Every single one of these customers deserves the money they're rightly owed and some getting paid is better than none. It just seems a very low cost when Betfair only have to pay some of the customers to get out of the rogue pit.

Back in the original thread when Betfair first got the new rep and were going to 'make everything right' there was talk about auditing ALL the player accounts, not just the ones who were casinomeister members. I wonder if there would be a way that Bryan could make that happen considering that there's got to be a percentage of players who for whatever reason don't have access or may not know about the PAB service? Perhaps that could be one of the conditions of getting out of the pit?

I'm curious to know if the guy who had the $32K taken from his bank account has a chance of getting that? Because his deposit was returned does that mean it's case closed for him?

 

[hugarse]

PAB not resolved

Hi,
Thanks to Max for contacting me about this and asking for an update with regard to my case.
I had a PAB with betfair from this fiasco. I did nothing to contravene any T+C and built up around a £5,000 profit from the promo. That included two substantial slots wins. The money was then taken back from my sportsbook account the following day. They also stole some slots wins from earlier in the day relating to before the promo even started.
They simply refused to negotiate with me or even answer any communications. I went to iBas who managed to get me back the non related slots wins, but then referred all other issues to the LGA who acknowledged my complaint, and then sent me absolutely nothing.
I have heard nothing else since, and Betfair still owe me over £5,000 in stolen winnings.
If they want to now negotiate a settlement with us, I am more than happy to enter into this, however they have done nothing in the last two years to address or even acknowledge my numerous contacts with them.

 

[chuchu59]

Hi,
Thanks to Max for contacting me about this and asking for an update with regard to my case.
I had a PAB with betfair from this fiasco. I did nothing to contravene any T+C and built up around a £5,000 profit from the promo. That included two substantial slots wins. The money was then taken back from my sportsbook account the following day. They also stole some slots wins from earlier in the day relating to before the promo even started.
They simply refused to negotiate with me or even answer any communications. I went to iBas who managed to get me back the non related slots wins, but then referred all other issues to the LGA who acknowledged my complaint, and then sent me absolutely nothing.
I have heard nothing else since, and Betfair still owe me over £5,000 in stolen winnings.
If they want to now negotiate a settlement with us, I am more than happy to enter into this, however they have done nothing in the last two years to address or even acknowledge my numerous contacts with them.

Every casino deserves a chance to turn over a new leaf and that includes betfair. However, if Max had ruled in favour of this player and Betfair just shrugs its shoulders and does nothing we shouldnt have to undergo the 60 days probation period IMO. A simple 'nay' from me.

 

[Nate]

I honestly think they DO NOT have the integrity to clean up this mess... I wish that all legitimate players are reimbursed, but sadly that's NOT going to happen anytime soon....

Nate

 

[Przecinek]

Wasn't involved in this mess myself, but I still can't believe Betfair decided to retroactively change terms&conditions or resort to taking money from moneybookers accounts (or threaten players with legal action for that matter, when it should be the other way round).

Backdating terms & condtions of various legal agreements is considered fraud (same for Betfred but at least their Aston Martin stunt affected only one shady player, not hundreds of innocent gamblers).

I suspect that as soon as Betfair realises there's still a ton of players out there that haven't been paid, they'll just forget about the whole thing.

Let's also not forget that Betfair were/are(?) slowpaying $3 mil to one bookie player as described by SBR.

 

[topoor]

They also placed player accounts into minus figures when they were unsuccessful with reclaiming money they had paid out. Its interesting to note that nothing was ever reported about Bet fair taking legal or recovery action against these players.

 

[hammeredalot]

I am another who was caught up in this.

I submitted a PAB at the time. I haven't received a recent email from Max btw, but was linked here from another forum.

Like most, I was stonewalled by Betfair shortly after they took my winnings from my account. I have contacted the LGA a few times since, which has been, unsurprisingly, fruitless. I have heard rumours of successful court cases and have been meaning to explore this avenue myself but have yet to get around to it. A resolution not involving a tedious legal battle would obviously be preferable, so if this probation process can move things in that direction then great, but as others have said, it isn't particularly fair if it will only benefit those who are aware of CM.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi,
Thanks to Max for contacting me about this and asking for an update with regard to my case.
I had a PAB with betfair from this fiasco. I did nothing to contravene any T+C and built up around a £5,000 profit from the promo. That included two substantial slots wins. The money was then taken back from my sportsbook account the following day. They also stole some slots wins from earlier in the day relating to before the promo even started.
They simply refused to negotiate with me or even answer any communications. I went to iBas who managed to get me back the non related slots wins, but then referred all other issues to the LGA who acknowledged my complaint, and then sent me absolutely nothing.
I have heard nothing else since, and Betfair still owe me over £5,000 in stolen winnings.
If they want to now negotiate a settlement with us, I am more than happy to enter into this, however they have done nothing in the last two years to address or even acknowledge my numerous contacts with them.

Surely, if this is a GENUINE attempt to get accepted back into the fold, they would have dealt with your issue BEFORE making overtures to Bryan. The whole thing looks like an exercise in putting the cart before the horse.
Players who are still pressing Betfair over this issue at least should be receiving offers from Betfair to put things right, yet it seems they are on the one hand asking for removal from the pit, yet the other hand is for players to talk to.

If too many players come forward over this, I can see Betfair retreating back into their lair as it becomes too expensive an exercise.

I remember the Virtual group trying this a few years ago, and about a dozen complaints were dealt with and players paid, and then Virtual decided they had spent enough, and decided to kill the endeavour rather than deal with ALL the complaints that started reappearing. It wasn't here, but at another forum devoted to affiliates rather than players.

 

[The Dude]

...
I remember the Virtual group trying this a few years ago, and about a dozen complaints were dealt with and players paid, and then Virtual decided they had spent enough, and decided to kill the endeavour rather than deal with ALL the complaints that started reappearing. It wasn't here, but at another forum devoted to affiliates rather than players.

Actually, I have to disagree with you here. Virtual Casino paid all previous complaints during that campaign - and they were assisted by this site as well as CAP and GPWA to get the word out. All grievances were addresses and dealt with.

@ Everyone else. It's Monday and the first full work day after the "probation" announcement. I hope to have made some progress by the end of the day.

 

[maxd]

I submitted a PAB at the time. I haven't received a recent email from Max btw ....

Sent the email out to you on the 9th, to both your Hotmail and Gmail addresses (as provided in the original PAB). The Hotmail one got bounced back -- most email to Hotmail addresses is getting bounced these days -- but the Gmail one should have got through as many others did.

 

[hammeredalot]

Sent the email out to you on the 9th, to both your Hotmail and Gmail addresses (as provided in the original PAB). The Hotmail one got bounced back -- most email to Hotmail addresses is getting bounced these days -- but the Gmail one should have got through as many others did.

Ah, found it in the Spam folder. Thanks.

 

[Tropicana50]

Why has it taken Bet Fair 2 years to reach this point? I think if this decision to be removed from the Rogue Pit was out of sincerity rather than profits, this matter would of been resolved many moons ago.

This is clearly not a decision driven by integrity, but one driven solely by profits; The very problem that brought around the first batch of issues. I see no change in course here. Keep them in the pit.

- T

 

[Christoff]

I don't think Betfair should leave the pit - everyone makes mistakes but you rectify them within 2 years!

 

[bigbadken]

Progress on Outstanding PAB?

Hi,
Thanks for this Max just so you know my Hotmail email was bounced too however my BT yahoo account got through. Do we have any update on what is happening with our old PAB yet?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Actually, I have to disagree with you here. Virtual Casino paid all previous complaints during that campaign - and they were assisted by this site as well as CAP and GPWA to get the word out. All grievances were addresses and dealt with.

@ Everyone else. It's Monday and the first full work day after the "probation" announcement. I hope to have made some progress by the end of the day.

I thought it was about a dozen that got resolved, and surely there were hundreds, if not thousands. It also seemed that some players and those helping them found the process frustrating, and perhaps not done in good faith, but rather grudgingly done as part of a PR exercise.

However, no sooner was it over, Virtual went back to screwing players.

Even if Betfair resolve all these complaints, it still looks like a PR exercise rather than a genuine culture change. Although not on the same scale, it seems Betfair players continue to get screwed.

 

[The Dude]

I thought it was about a dozen that got resolved, and surely there were hundreds, if not thousands. It also seemed that some players and those helping them found the process frustrating, and perhaps not done in good faith, but rather grudgingly done as part of a PR exercise.

However, no sooner was it over, Virtual went back to screwing players.

Even if Betfair resolve all these complaints, it still looks like a PR exercise rather than a genuine culture change. Although not on the same scale, it seems Betfair players continue to get screwed.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but to set the record straight - Virtual emailed their database; CAP, the GPWA, and I emailed ours. The complaints were in the dozens (I believe) and all were settled. Since then, there have been only a few complaints. I announced in February that we were accepting PABs for the Virtual and Ace Revenue groups. We have only received four PABs since February - all resolved.

/derail

 

[vinylweatherman]

I don't mean to derail the thread, but to set the record straight - Virtual emailed their database; CAP, the GPWA, and I emailed ours. The complaints were in the dozens (I believe) and all were settled. Since then, there have been only a few complaints. I announced in February that we were accepting PABs for the Virtual and Ace Revenue groups. We have only received four PABs since February - all resolved.

/derail

Good grief


Did the original owner sell out?

Can they really change the habits of over 10 years and start giving honest service to players?

If Virtual can do it, then maybe there IS hope for Betfair after all.

 

[maphesto]

I don't mean to derail the thread, but to set the record straight - Virtual emailed their database; CAP, the GPWA, and I emailed ours. The complaints were in the dozens (I believe) and all were settled. Since then, there have been only a few complaints. I announced in February that we were accepting PABs for the Virtual and Ace Revenue groups. We have only received four PABs since February - all resolved.

/derail

More derail...You started it...

It's not easy to keep up with Virtual/G-Wages/Refer/Ace Revenue etc. but the 123Bingo/123bingoonline issue wasn't solved. Or is it?

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...odgy-practices-and-mishandled-winnings.51467/

Gambling wages lists Bingo Knights as their bingo site. At Bingo Knights page they are linking to bingo4affiliates... 123Bingo in other words.

Something is strange here, I don't want players to think that the Virtual group are ok. If players think that, they will start depositing just because of their huge bonuses.

/derail

EDIT: Bingo Knights and 123Bingo has identical phone numbers.

 

[The Dude]

Please don't derail the thread.

/derail means end of derail. And that's what I did - I ended it. We are trying to discuss Betfair and bringing up the Virtual Casino group specifics is not getting anyone anywhere.

Betfair's rep stated that she will be posting a statement tomorrow. So we'll wait and see what that entails.

 

[threescatters]

Betfair's rep stated that she will be posting a statement tomorrow. So we'll wait and see what that entails.

 

[threescatters]

I feel like I am talking to myself here but is anyone else not surprised that that statement did not come?

 

[The Dude]

I feel like I am talking to myself here but is anyone else not surprised that that statement did not come?

I've been informed that they should be making one today.

 

[brutaldeluxe]

Taken from betfair's section on customer commitment.

"Integrity - We'll always act with integrity to build trusted relationships with our customers, regulators, employees and local communities."

"We'll provide helpful and professional service when you need it."

"Customer enquiries will be resolved fairly and quickly."


Yes looking forward to this statement from betfair.

 

[chuchu59]

I hope the statement can at least address the issue of how past issues can be resolved and the time frame for it.

 

[brutaldeluxe]

About 3 hours left in my time for the statement.....unless of course they are operating in a different time zone to me.

 

[FiletOFish]

Well I've learned one thing from this whole episode.

Don't expect anything in a hurry......

 

[Tagdog]

Just something to throw into the mix assuming all pitch a bitches get resolved (lol)

I'm sure that there will have been various small claims made against betfair on this issue. Meaning that betfair's liability should they payout in full may be substantionally less than when the incident happened.

Hence this may well be a simple business decision and not a gesture of remorse at all.

Also I'm sure some will have settled for 50% 60% etc of what they were owed in small claims mediation .. would betfair be paying these people in full?
Would Betfair open their books to Casinomeister and let him know what percentage of confiscations have been resolved in full and what percentage of outstanding liabilty on the promotion they have?

 

[brutaldeluxe]

I reckon it's a case of weigh up the cost of paying off a few players on here to get out the pit because that
could cost them future business. If they just need to dish out a few hundred to people on here then they might
consider that worthwhile. I'll probably get in trouble for speculating but that is what I think it is.
It's also the case that twice now they have said they will make a statement and it hasn't happened.
Whatever happened to their customer commitment I wonder ?

I might also add I participated in the promotion and was paid in full.........but that doesn't make me pro-betfair !
I saw what they did to many and haven't played at the casino since I don't think.

 

[threescatters]

If they cannot even release this statement on here to start the process of whatever they want to happen happening then they have fallen at the first hurdle imo.

 

[akrus88]

Seems like probation isnt goin too smoothly .

 

[Christoff]

HA HA - they'll come up with some excuse as to why their statement is late.

Probably the fact they were in meetings all day yesterday trying to think of a way they wouldn't get caned

 

[The Dude]

Probation failed

One of the conditions of coming out of the pit is to ensure that all past issues have been dealt with fairly. This is not a "Get out of the Pit for FREE" card. We still have the old PABs and will be contacting those players shortly.

Unfortunately, Betfair is not ready to consider the past complaints - specifically the Happy Hour promotion - which brings this "probation" process to a halt. I'll be changing Betfair's status back to it was - which is disappointing for both me and Betfair since they are making an effort to redeem themselves, and I want them to succeed in doing so.

I hope that in the near future we can revisit this issue and have success with all past player issues being resolved.

 

[FiletOFish]

Unfortunately, Betfair is not ready to consider the past complaints - specifically the Happy Hour promotion - which brings this "probation" process to a halt. I'll be changing Betfair's status back to it was - which is disappointing for both me and Betfair since they are making an effort to redeem themselves, and I want them to succeed in doing so.

I hope that in the near future we can revisit this issue and have success with all past player issues being resolved.

No big surprise there, but cheers for trying.

 

[skiny]

Unfortunately, Betfair is not ready to consider the past complaints - specifically the Happy Hour promotion - which brings this "probation" process to a halt. I'll be changing Betfair's status back to it was - which is disappointing for both me and Betfair since they are making an effort to redeem themselves, and I want them to succeed in doing so.

I hope that in the near future we can revisit this issue and have success with all past player issues being resolved.

Well then what was the point? To intentionally waste everyone's time?

 

[FiletOFish]

Well then what was the point? To intentionally waste everyone's time?

I'd imagine that they were testing the water, to see if the Happy Hour fiasco had gone away.

 

[brutaldeluxe]

 

[Balthazar]

There was just no way that they were going to pay for all the players that didn't get their winnings during the happy hour fiasco. You guys realize that it must be well in the 6 digits, right? They will never pay, it's way too much money.

 

[threescatters]

 

[Cryptic]

There was just no way that they were going to pay for all the players that didn't get their winnings during the happy hour fiasco. You guys realize that it must be well in the 6 digits, right? They will never pay, it's way too much money.

6 digits! I think you mean 8 digits.

 

[Balthazar]

6 digits! I think you mean 8 digits.

10M+? lol
I think you're overestimating the number of players that took advantage of the promo and actually won.

No I really meant 6 digits. Somewhere in the 500k-800k range seems likely to me. Only them know the numbers, though.

 

[threescatters]

10M+? lol
I think you're overestimating the number of players that took advantage of the promo and actually won.

No I really meant 6 digits. Somewhere in the 500k-800k range seems likely to me. Only them know the numbers, though.

There were a lot of strong rumours at the time it was an 8 figure sum.

 

[griffon51]

Bet"what"

At least now everyone knows where the line is drawn.

Betfair asked and got what they asked for, not what they wanted obviously. Now they are aware of the criteria perhaps they will be working away in the background cleaning house.

Grif

 

[chuchu59]

Well then what was the point? To intentionally waste everyone's time?

Betfair was perhaps hoping to resolve a couple of past issues without dishing out too much dough and get out of the pit. Once it became obvious it wont be that easy they gave up but not before wasting all our time by saying a statement is forthcoming. Ah, just like the Rushmore debacle.

 

[The Dude]

Betfair was perhaps hoping to resolve a couple of past issues without dishing out too much dough and get out of the pit. Once it became obvious it wont be that easy they gave up but not before wasting all our time by saying a statement is forthcoming...

I wouldn't consider it a waste of time, it was an attempt to take a step in the right direction. I'm an optimist. The door is open to try again; there is hope for something more positive in the future.