Curaçao casino, need advice on account closure / winnings lost

[removedbyrequest-20240904]

Hey all,

Just wanted to get some advice on how to proceed. As I am still in discussion with the Casino, I will not mention their name whilst we try to resolve. The casino is licensed under Curacao, and holds one of the master licenses. They are responding very slowly, but not giving any actual information.

Background: My Relationship with the Licensed Casinos

I have played at a number of Casinos under this license over the years, and had successful deposits and withdrawals (last withdrawal in mid-June 2024).
I always use the same email, name, payment information etc.

Current Situation

The other day I won big, and went through verification as usual. A few hours later when requesting a withdrawal my account was closed due to self exclusion. They will not specify where I have self excluded, or when. No one will confirm what my balance was (it was 5 figures). I have a rough idea, but not 100%.

Terms of Casino
I have reviewed the terms and conditions, as well as on sister sites, and there is no mention under 'who can play' that being excluded on another site is reason for not being able to play. I meet all criteria outlined.

As an side - I have checked with live support who have confirmed on that license Self-exclusions are only on the specific casino unless requested otherwise. I have not requested a license exclusion. I have this as a transcript. I have checked my sent box, specifically between the dates of last withdrawal (on another site under license) and today.

I have also checked the Curacao general terms and conditions and there is no (obvious) mention of license-wde exclusions, both in Responsible Gambling or in the general terms.


Help?

I do not know who I am apparently excluded with - but even If I was, I do not see any way this can carry over without me requesting otherwise? I am certain that I have not done this. This was confirmed on live chat with one of the sister casinos. The casino I am talking about will not comment. I am still able to access other accounts using same infromation on other casinos with the same license. They have not been blocked.

How should I approach getting my payments?

It would appear that they have decided to use this excuse because of the amount I won, as it has not been a problem in the last month on their sister sites - both when I have won and lost. Even if I am hypothetically excluded on another site, why would it now apply here? Last week I lost over 3000 on another site with same license, and my account is still open there.


Thank you for any guidance. Hypothetically - do I have a case to bring forward? Of course I am still trying to settle it with the casino, but trying to see what else I should try and raise with them.

 

[ollygarch]

That's a toughie. Keep bashing away until you reach a failure to agree. Then try Casinomeister PAB perhaps?

 

[jasonuk]

Self-exclusion is a bit of an awkward beast - because unless there are mandatory regulations (such as in the UK), the operator can do as much or as little as they want - and predictably that enforcement is one-sided.

The casino is licensed under Curacao, and holds one of the master licenses.

I think there's a bit of confusion here - I believe they would either be a sub-license under a legacy master license (which is being phased out imminently), or they hold a new license with the Curacao Gaming Control Board.

Very little public information exists for the legacy master licenses, and they clearly prefer it that way given some of them have been operational for 25 years.

Terms of Casino
I have reviewed the terms and conditions, as well as on sister sites, and there is no mention under 'who can play' that being excluded on another site is reason for not being able to play. I meet all criteria outlined.

Unfortunately this is where the selective enforcement comes in - few Curacao casinos make a genuine effort for responsible gambling, but they will happily exploit that for their own benefit.

In the days before the UK streamlined self-exclusion, there were lengthy discussions about "sister casino self-exclusion" - some groups would exclude you from everything, some would happily take your money knowing you are self-excluded next door, and some would extend beyond the casino in question (e.g. platforms like everymatrix) in unintended ways.

I do not know who I am apparently excluded with - but even If I was, I do not see any way this can carry over without me requesting otherwise? I am certain that I have not done this. This was confirmed on live chat with one of the sister casinos. The casino I am talking about will not comment. I am still able to access other accounts using same infromation on other casinos with the same license. They have not been blocked.

How should I approach getting my payments?

It would appear that they have decided to use this excuse because of the amount I won, as it has not been a problem in the last month on their sister sites - both when I have won and lost. Even if I am hypothetically excluded on another site, why would it now apply here? Last week I lost over 3000 on another site with same license, and my account is still open there.

This is where it gets tricky, because you have much fewer rights than you would with a properly regulated jurisdiction.

If the casino has a rep on CM and/or is accredited here, in the first instance you can contact them via private message, and if that doesn't resolve it you can file a PAB once you've exhausted your own attempts. If they're not, you still have the PAB route - but the likelihood of a "no can do" increases.

Depending on the exact license, there may be an ADR path or a way to complain to the master license and/or regulator. However these are incredibly hit and miss, and many Curacao casinos offer no onwards path of resolution.

Which frustratingly means even if you have a legitimate case, there may be nobody to hear it. Even with legal avenues, the cost will be substantial with no guarantee of a decision in your favour (and way beyond the scope of this forum).

 

[maxd]

@OhFive538 , I fully agree and 2nd what Jason has said. I'd add that without knowing the name of the casino it's very difficult to be specific about what the best approach would be and/or what your chances of success are.

Some Curaçao casinos are excellent and I could pretty much guarantee a fair and proper settlement, with others I'd have to restrain myself from laughing out loud (not at you, at them and the abysmal reputation that some of them have).

If you want to keep the casino name out of it for now feel free to Private Message me via @maxd with the casino name and I can advise you further on this.

Regards,
Max Drayman
Senior Forum Moderator

 

[removedbyrequest-20240904]

Thank you both, and for the clarification on some points. Will send you a DM

Edit - getting errors trying to send you one. Perhaps I am too new? Any chance you can send one first so I can try reply? Thank you!

 

[maxd]

Will do. ... Done.

- Max

 

[removedbyrequest-20240904]

Will do. ... Done.

- Max

I max, thanks I received but I get the error:
Oops! We ran into some problems.
A server error occurred. Please try again later.

Same as before. Will keep trying

 

[maxd]

Seems we've got it working now. Let me know if there are any further problems.

 

[removedbyrequest-20240904]

Been informed:

Refunds are being processed in queued order. It may take from minimum of 5 business days up to 14 business days.

No idea if this is normal timeline, so I guess I shall continue to wait as tomorrow would be the 5th business day.

At least it seems they are going to be refunding me, with the amount confirmed earlier this week. I would assume if there were to be issues they would have raised them. Fingers crossed, as from my side I do not see what I have done wrong in all terms of the platform or license.

 

[removedbyrequest-20240904]

Nevermind... They meant 10-20 days....

The refund should be fully processed on our side for the next 5-15 business days starting from today.

 

[jasonuk]

Since it's come up in other threads recently - give them a chance but don't give them too long.

One of the recurring tactics of late has been to delay delay delay, knowing that the chargeback clock is ticking. Once that expires (often 120 days, but varies by country and payment method) then your rights diminish even further.

Good luck getting something back, and it goes without saying never give a penny to any of their sister sites!

 

[removedbyrequest-20240904]

Since it's come up in other threads recently - give them a chance but don't give them too long.

One of the recurring tactics of late has been to delay delay delay, knowing that the chargeback clock is ticking. Once that expires (often 120 days, but varies by country and payment method) then your rights diminish even further.

Good luck getting something back, and it goes without saying never give a penny to any of their sister sites!

Not planning to do a charge back, I only deposited perhaps 100e there. They have confirmed the refund amount is my balance, and I've had that in writing twice.

They have confirmed they need no more information from me, simply I need to wait. Naturally, quite tense given the amount of balance and the 'self excluded' as a reason to close my account. I am not being rude to them, just casually following up each day to pre-empt them asking at the last minute for another document.

Really have no idea if this is normal duration given the scenario, nor do I understand why they would delay when I can't even access my balance to drain it. I guess I am just naive and new to this world... Fully aware of PAB, but not sure still as so far they seem to be playing ball with the refund. Surely if they had no intention of paying they would have just said that straight up? That's the main thing witholding me.

Thank you for the kind words none the less.

 

[ollygarch]

I'm sure you will let us all know when you get your money, or when the deadline expires. Fingers crossed for you and a successful outcome.

 

[The Dude]

Admin note: Anyone playing at a Curacao based casinos should read this thread. Thus I marked it "Must Read".

 

[jasonuk]

Admin note: Anyone playing at a Curacao based casinos should read this thread. Thus I marked it "Must Read".

and here I was thinking it was because I could waffle for England

It's the classic story - when things go right you get a much better experience (higher RTPs, better promotions, fast crypto payouts) but when things go wrong the pit of despair opens up incredibly fast with few, if any, paths of remediation.

People like to take a gamble while they gamble - except for the rogue shithole casinos, that's not gambling at all... just fraud.

 

[satchnz]

and here I was thinking it was because I could waffle for England

It's the classic story - when things go right you get a much better experience (higher RTPs, better promotions, fast crypto payouts) but when things go wrong the pit of despair opens up incredibly fast with few, if any, paths of remediation.

People like to take a gamble while they gamble - except for the rogue shithole casinos, that's not gambling at all... just fraud.

Don’t forget the gamble that is owning crypto! Playing offshore is a gamble on a gamble on a gamble*

*I mainly play crypto now but with low stakes and minimum bets.

 

[removedbyrequest-20240904]

To be honest I never did my due diligence and research; however, there are other casinos under the same license that are accredited here so I’m hoping there is some silver lining and that the management are going to come through.

I was naive, I thought the parent company / license was good because other casinos I’ve had no issue with - albeit for smaller sums of money.

I’m still able to log in on other casinos too with exactly the same credentials, so I am also seeing that as a positive sign and this is nothing more than management not wanting me to play more hidden under the guise of responsible gambling.

I’ve certainly learnt a valuable lesson, but I hope this turn out to be a success. As long as they’re playing ball I’ll go along with it. It’s why I’m withholding the name whilst I’m working with them, to give them a chance. I’m trying to be optimistic because:

1- they created the refund ticket
2 - they confirmed the amount (whether it’s correct or not I don’t know, but it’s within a few thousand certainly)
3- I can still access other sites on same company/license
4- they haven’t shut me down and stonewalled me saying it’s confiscated

Maybe I have rose-tinted glasses of optimism?

 

[removedbyrequest-20240904]

Just to provide an update - The refund amount is not disputed - we have agreed this in writing. Besides, I have gone over the T&C/RG page, of every casino in that group, to find any reference to responsible gambling is in singular form; website, account etc. Besides, precedence of other complaints from publicly available information would further support this (both here, and other sites).

I have taken this to PAB as I am receiving no transparency and the refund is just being delayed further. I will not be able to comment further, but hope to provide a positive response soon!