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Betfair issues (was On Probation)

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Casinomeister, Nov 8, 2012.

Thread Status:
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    Nov 8, 2012
  1. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Betfair has requested consideration for removal from the Rogue Pit. We are honoring this by placing them under review for 60 days (On Probation). During this time, players are encouraged to give feedback and/or submit any complaints past or current eith via our PAB service or posted here in this thread.

    Their casino rep can be contacted here:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/laura-betfair.html

    Betfair's listing is here:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/past_issues/betfair_probation.php

    More about the probation process here:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/past_issues/
     
  2. Nov 8, 2012
  3. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    7 people like this.
  4. Nov 8, 2012
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    They can start by putting any money they took from players' BANK accounts back again. This went beyond a contractural dispute, and was a misuse of the banking system, and may have violated banking regulations.

    Next, any players who did not break the terms of this infamous promotion should get their confiscated winnings returned to them for withdrawal.

    If they decide these players should remain banned for being too clever, so be it, it will still meet the high standards they promised to adhere to before this fiasco, and when they were accredited here.

    Internally, they should have taken measures to ensure they don't screw up like this again.
     
    7 people like this.
  6. Nov 8, 2012
  7. Zepher

    Zepher Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    East Midlands - UK
    I'm afraid I agree with Mouseys' comment above. They were rogued for a genuine reason - and as VWM said, unless they can fix up their previous messes, leave 'em in the pit. Its where I personally think they should stay anyway.
     
  8. Nov 8, 2012
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It was 2 years ago, so maybe they think they should now be forgiven rather than have to fix what they did back then. If players went away, it was because they were completely stonewalled with nowhere to complain to, not because they accepted they were in the wrong.

    Maybe they think players won't come back to revisit the issues after so long, however I hope the opposite happens, and that after biding their time for 2 years, affected players descend like locusts on this thread and ask that these old cases be reopened.

    The odd Betfair issues are still cropping up from time to time, and it seems again that players are getting the "we are right, so talk to the hand" response.
     
    5 people like this.
  10. Nov 8, 2012
  11. Perc

    Perc Experienced Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmeister
    Location:
    Canada
    Leave them in the pit, what they did was unforgivable.

    I see they are now advertising on TV here in Canada, and that makes me want to make my own commercial (similar to the political ads) explaining what happened and why people shouldn't play there.

    I wasn't affected in any way, but I did follow the story and couldn't believe they would actually take money out of someones bank account after THEY screwed up. That's beyond rogue.

    I would never play there, and I certainly would never promote them.
     
    5 people like this.
  12. Nov 8, 2012
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    One of the conditions of coming out of the pit is to ensure that all past issues have been dealt with fairly. This is not a "Get out of the Pit for FREE" card. We still have the old PABs and will be contacting those players shortly.
     
    17 people like this.
  14. Nov 9, 2012
  15. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I have to agree with Perc; unless they return the money they stole from EVERY single player effected - leave them in the pit.

    What they did was beyond despicable IMO.

    KK
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Nov 9, 2012
  17. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Have to agree with all comments posted above. What Betfair did was one of the worst cases of mass thievery I have personally witnessed in my eight plus years here, and my decade of gambling online. Every single player who had money taken back from bank accounts, ewallets, etc., and every single player who had their legitimate winnings denied from that clusterfuck of a promo....needs to be taken care of. Nothing else will suffice.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Nov 9, 2012
  19. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    What I don't think would be fair is if they'd pay people with the old PAB's just to get out of the pit and not all the other people that got their money seized from their bank accounts.

    That said, that would cost them way too much money so I don't see it happening. Personally, pit or not, I'm going to stay away.
     
    5 people like this.
  20. Nov 9, 2012
  21. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    FWIW all the original PABers have been emailed asking them to come and comment here as to whether their issues were resolved.
     
  22. Nov 9, 2012
  23. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    Curious as to whether this is new management or owners? If so, there may be a chance for them. If not...well, making restitution is a step in the right direction, but only if it really happens.
     
  24. Nov 9, 2012
  25. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    It's not only PABs, but any complaint. So if you are aware of anyone who may have a past grievance, please point them in this direction.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Nov 9, 2012
  27. FiletOFish

    FiletOFish Experienced Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    Manchester
    I contacted them a few times asking for the money that they'd removed from my Betfair account. Initially, they told me to contact the gaming authority in Malta, which was a waste of time. I contacted them again recently, after they sent an email entitled "A Further Update to Our Customer Commitment" (lol). I didn't even get a reply.

    I don't think it'll take a genius to work out whether I think they should be removed from the Rogue Pit or not....
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Nov 9, 2012
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Well, if you didn't before, send in a PAB right now, if they give Max the "talk to the hand" treatment, they may well end up staying in the pit.

    It is clear that after 2 years of a "who cares" attitude to being blacklisted by many internet sites, they have now concluded that they DO care, and this may be down to it causing them problems in attracting new players.

    They may, of course, be trying to pull the wool like 888 tried, and Virtual group try repeatedly. If found out though, they could just end up deeper in the pit than before.
     
    3 people like this.
  30. Nov 9, 2012
  31. FiletOFish

    FiletOFish Experienced Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    Manchester
    Cheers. I put a PAB in back in November 2010. I was also responsible for the second, poor imitation of the first Hitler video.
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Nov 9, 2012
  33. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster SoftSwiss Representative webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Somewhere in eternity
    And what about Portuguese guy they took €32.000 from? They charged it back from his BANK account. IIRC, he didn't get him money back. Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  34. Nov 9, 2012
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    He was told the action was illegal under Portuguese banking laws, but there was little that could be done since Betfair were not based in Portugal, and his bank didn't want to take the blame for allowing it to happen and refund the money themselves.

    Betfair probably relied on this being the situation, but I do recall some UK players tried to haul Betfair into court, but no news of whether this got them anywhere. I also believe the ASA made a ruling against Betfair over this promotion, but their powers were limited to issuing a "don't do it again" notice.

    It seems they have spent 2 years giving everyone who tried to get information about this the "talk to the hand" treatment, and now all of a sudden they want to talk and get out of the pit.

    I can't see them being willing to put right those affected in 2010, so I think this is an exercise in hoping that 2 years is long enough for the act to be mostly forgotten, and that few players affected will actually step forward now.

    Hopefully, they will be wrong, and news of this exercise will spread beyond CM, and will draw in most players who felt they got screwed over and only let the issue rest, rather than having forgiven.
     
    2 people like this.
  36. Nov 9, 2012
  37. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    Yes, it is my understanding that he didn't get any of that money back. I recall he also challenged his bank to return the 32K because they shouldn't have let a "chargeback" to occur on funds already paid to a bank account. Since when can you reverse a payment to bank account just like credit card payment? It shouldn't be possible.

    However, shortly before this player had the 32K seized from his bank account, he was bragging on another forum what naughty tricks he had done at Betfair and had amassed that win from a small deposit by compounding the unlimited bonuses during the small 3-hour time window the promotion was active. So I'd say that the affected players must have understood the potential problems involved with this clearly misthought promotion, and were not as gullible as it sounds.
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Nov 9, 2012
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It wasn't against the terms and conditions though, which was the whole issue. Betfair cocked up in a major way, and it was Betfair that made the offer available "unlimited times" so that players COULD do this.

    Mathematically, it makes no difference whatsoever whether the player fully withdrew and redeposited, or simply withdrew to the sports purse. The problem was the unlimited number of bonuses allowed, and the very low WR.

    Far from learning their lesson, Betfair REPEATED the promo the following week, knowing full well that this vulnerabilty existed. They must have considered it worth doing as in the first week very few players seemed to know the "trick". Unfortunately, in week 2, it was widespread.

    They really compounded the issue when they paid some players, and then took the money back from bank accounts and wallets. This is no different from a player who loses, and then a couple of days later decides the games were "unfair" and charges back the losses. This is the BIG sin, and one that should NOT be forgiven. Players who charge back losses are blacklisted for LIFE, it should be the same for casinos. The ONLY way some players have managed to get off the life ban blacklist is to make good on everything they charged back, and so Betfair need to do the same. No need for players to get involved either, Betfair have records of EVERY chargeback they made from players' banks and wallets, along with the contact details for each of these players.
     
    6 people like this.
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