Betfair issues (was On Probation)

[aceking123]

tbh im sure why were having a debate on wether they should be let back on , its a standing joke these are clowns & were the joke looking at this , the only ever time they should even be on probation is when theyve paid every single penny back to everyone who was owed without fail , then the should be only given a 18 months probation period after doing that , im with most leave them there to remind them there not above here )

 

[hitobito2005]

I am still owed a large sum by Betfair. I didn't break any T&Cs, risked a lot of my own funds (no compounding tactics or anything), and won a lot.

They catagorically should not be let out of the rogue pit unless they genuinely address all these outstanding issues and pay what was owed.

I am still considering sueing them over this.

 

[topoor]

If Betfair take out adverts in the press admitting what they did and apologising for it, pay every single player every penny of every bonus and winning they took and pay interest on it then and only then should they be allowed a probationary status.

 

[bigbear]

Betfair

I can only speak from recent personal experience as i wasn't around when all the original problems surfaced , have played there and cashed out without any problems but i do understand the feelings of people who lost out in the past.The only thing that gets me is the annoying transferring of deposits and withdrawals between their various wallets which i have never come across anywhere else.

 

[HadEnouth]

Betfair should not be allowed out of the pit unless money returned to winners, If you allow them back without this requirement, Then I cant trust this site no more.

 

[ThePOGG]

The ONLY way some players have managed to get off the life ban blacklist is to make good on everything they charged back, and so Betfair need to do the same. No need for players to get involved either, Betfair have records of EVERY chargeback they made from players' banks and wallets, along with the contact details for each of these players.

I've got to be honest and say that putting Betfair on probabtion makes me extremely uncomfortable. As VWM says above, Betfair have a complete list of every customer that was affected in what - to my mind - was the single biggest scandle in the history of online gambling. Given the extent of the issues that occured because of their incompetence which they then basically blamed players for, if they want off of the rogue pit it shouldn't be based on players stepping forward with complaints - in the last two years how many of them have become unreachable and how many of the affected never visited this site - it should be based on Betfair doing the right thing and contacting every customer they confiscated fund from. They have all the relevant contact details and this would show a genuine commitment to right the wrongs of the past rather than just a cost/profit exercise where they are counting on only a fraction of the players involved stepping forward.

Even with all that, this would fail to take into account that some players were denied large sums of money for 2 years. I'm not suggesting damages should be paid - that's obviously never going to happen - but if your bank did this to you with no justifiable reason, there's no question there would be an award made in a court case, so Betfair would be getting off lightly.

I also think that one of their reps should be on this thread telling people what actions they are taking to put right the damage they did.

 

[Casinomeister]

If betfair come out the rogue pit it makes a mockery of this entire site in my opinion.

Betfair should not be allowed out of the pit unless money returned to winners, If you allow them back without this requirement, Then I cant trust this site no more.

Some of you don't understand the probation/review process - which is rather surprising since you have been members for a number of years.

The probation process is not a way of saying "all is ok, let's promote these guys." It's placing the casino into a position where we can be assured that all issues that led to the "roguing" have been resolved in a fair manner. We had quite a number of unresolved PABs from that event, and Max is in the process of contacting these members to see if anything has changed. I have also stated that if anyone has a complaint, to please submit a PAB. I expect to see a number of them coming in.

What I don't want is a non-productive slam-fest. Instead, you should be encouraging any aggrieved players to get involved with the process and have their voices heard. The casino has made it clear that they want to resolve all past issues; let's put them to the task - not bitch and moan about it.

 

[Nifty29]

I normally concur with CM decisions when it comes to which casinos are allowed on the site and which sites get a second chance.

On this one, I strongly disagree.

I see probation has already been granted, so I guess it may be a moot point, but betfair should NOT be allowed back at CM until EVERY legitimate winner in the happy hour promotion is paid their winnings in FULL. It was an ill-conceived promotion from the off, but BF obviously couldn't be arsed doing a risk assessment, and they paid the price.....well at least they SHOULD have.

Do I condone the deliberate milking of this bonus by players who had no intention of genuinely playing and risking their own cash? No I don't.....it is why we all have to be subjected to draconian and almost impossible terms nowadays.

Do I condone BFs confiscation of winnings, including stealing from bank accounts, from players who did not breach the terms (pretty much everyone)? Absolutely not.

BF should not be even considered for probation until ALL winnings are returned.

Even if it isn't the case, the placement of BF on probation comes across as almost a "second chance" or "reward". I understand the reasoning, but I can't see BF handing back millions to players just to get back on the CM whitelist. Just my opinion of course.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The thing is Nifty, statistically speaking there's a pretty good chance that at least one player who had their money stolen by Betfair has become unreachable, perhaps permanently - i.e. they're dead.

Even if it's not as dramatic as that, people move around, Betfair may have out of date contact details, the players may have just given up, they don't know about CM, etc etc.

I read every page of the thread Mousey linked to, and my mind is absolutely clear, Betfair were rogued for the strongest and clearest of reasons - some wrongs can't be righted, and IMO this is one of them.

The behaviour of the casino was despicable, they belong in the pit.

 

[Balthazar]

I understand that putting them on probation gives the chance to some players to maybe get their money, which is a good thing. I'd be happy to see that if I was one of those players.

But I also understand that if a member here makes a chargeback, he's banned for life. Well, Betfair did dozens of "chargebacks". I'll leave it at that.

 

[bigbadken]

Outstanding PAB

Hi,
I have an outstanding PAB against Betfair due to the Happy Hour promotion. They have withheld £754 from me and I played exactly to the T&C. Betfair have stonewalled me every time I have tried to contact them about this. I made a DPA request for my file and their own notes say there was no problem with my play ( I played Casino Hold em). I still want this money as it is theft and anyone who had legitimate winnings should be paid before Betfair are considered non rogue.

 

[ThePOGG]

The thing is Nifty, statistically speaking there's a pretty good chance that at least one player who had their money stolen by Betfair has become unreachable, perhaps permanently - i.e. they're dead.

Most players should be contactable, even if Betfair actually have to do some investigative work to track them down, but you are right that some may have passed beyond contacting for one reason or another. In those instances the solution would be to put the confiscated funds aside and donate them to one of the gambling addicted charities.

 

[topoor]

Why do Betfair need to be assisted by this site to make good? Surely they should be coming here saying we've made good, now can we be let out of the pit?

 

[griffon51]

Is the Boss right?

To clarify.... you all note I am newish in CM, and I have not had any problems with Betfair. I have read through all the previous about this fiasco,and had a good laugh at Jufo's hitler vid(many thanks for that).
IMO the Boss is right,Betfair it would seem made an approach to be put on probation.Who can guess their motivation but I would hazard one at it being solely for their commercial benefit,and I am sure that Betfair would have been suitably appraised of their obligations to meet should they be given the oppurtunity to redeem themselves.
Therefor is it not now down to the efforts of this joint comunity to ensure that all outstanding problems are resolved and going forward that no more of the same occur again.Of course my assumption is based on the fact that it would be a collective agreement on this comunities part that lets them back in,or is it a singular descision?
So then my support is with the Boss and CM as a wholethe processes are in place so lets run the thing and see what outcomes.
As a sideline point,are some of these big casino groups run by Nunns or some simular persons.Whoever thought that the promotion in question from Betfair was not going to end so badly for them,they surely do not have any seasoned gambling descision makers work for them eh!
Good luck with all your gambling futures.....you are going to need it. Grif

 

[chayton]

Why do Betfair need to be assisted by this site to make good? Surely they should be coming here saying we've made good, now can we be let out of the pit?

This is a good point. I wonder if they've contacted and/or paid any players on their own yet? Also if they want to 'make good' then why the delay? IMO they should have been taking steps to make this right back when it happened.

That's why I wondered if there were new owners or something has changed with management recently.

Anyhow I hope that the people who are owed get paid, I don't really care what happens to Betfair. And FWIW, just because they're on probation doesn't mean they're out of the pit, they're still listed with the rogues.

Have there been many PABs yet Bryan?

 

[GOCC]

Just a question to the UK residents and Im not sticking up for anyone.

You see all the ads on TV for PPI saying were you missold. We can get the money back.

Well EVERY BANK in the UK missold PPI. The banks, by some peoples reckoning, could contact all their affected customers and refund the PPI. There would be no need for claims companies or for the FSA.

But ALL UK players will, at this time, be using a bank that has robbed people of their PPI and who have not contacted the customers affected so whats the difference?

 

[Casinomeister]

...

Have there been many PABs yet Bryan?

Max is in the process of going through the older ones and making contact with the PABers. Liquid Fusion is one btw.

@Liquid Fusion - you mentioned the following in your PAB:

I am also opening a dispute with IBAS, as I believe that since the money was confiscated from the exchange, I should be dealing with the UK licensed arm of Betfair rather than the Malta-licensed casino.

Did anything come from this?

As for new PABs - none yet. But this was only posted yesterday and has not been announced via the newsletter, etc.

More on this on Monday. I have lots to do this weekend, but not here

 

[topoor]

Just a question to the UK residents and Im not sticking up for anyone.

You see all the ads on TV for PPI saying were you missold. We can get the money back.

Well EVERY BANK in the UK missold PPI. The banks, by some peoples reckoning, could contact all their affected customers and refund the PPI. There would be no need for claims companies or for the FSA.

But ALL UK players will, at this time, be using a bank that has robbed people of their PPI and who have not contacted the customers affected so whats the difference?

Brilliant post. Every company has ripped someone off at some time or another so why hold it against them.

 

[GOCC]

Hmm, Ill just re read and see if I actually wrote that................

.....No, didnt think so.

 

[FiletOFish]

Brilliant post. Every company has ripped someone off at some time or another so why hold it against them.

I disagree. I've never seen 32Red do a promotion, and then steal millions from it's players, and blame THEM.

As for the banks, fair point, hardly anybody trusts them, but we don't have much choice if want to keep our cash safe(ish), or pay direct debits etc.

The whole point of this site is to give info as to which casinos are likely to be trustworthy, and which are likely to rip you off.

 

[Brooklyn]

IF they do pay everyone they owe, this is if nothing else a way to git er done.

I just want to see if they are going to pay the players they did wrong. If so, then this at least helped the wronged players, no?

So sit back and watch what they do. There is a good chance they will stay in the rogue pit, there are a lot of angry players waiting to gets their monies.

However, I think if they are not doing anything to fix their wrongs then they need to stay where they are.

It's easy to say "We want out of the rogue pit".

It's harder to act like they want out of the rogue pit.

I am eager to see what happens.

No matter what though, I will never promote them again.

Juss sayin'.

 

[topoor]

Hmm, Ill just re read and see if I actually wrote that................

.....No, didnt think so.

You said all UK banks ripped people off but didn't voluntarily make it right so what's the difference? Its not a tremendous liberty to extend the comparison to a wider circle to show how crazy it is to even make that point.

 

[ThePOGG]

Just a question to the UK residents and Im not sticking up for anyone.

You see all the ads on TV for PPI saying were you missold. We can get the money back.

Well EVERY BANK in the UK missold PPI. The banks, by some peoples reckoning, could contact all their affected customers and refund the PPI. There would be no need for claims companies or for the FSA.

But ALL UK players will, at this time, be using a bank that has robbed people of their PPI and who have not contacted the customers affected so whats the difference?

This isn't really relevant as the UK bank customers would be akined to players and not a site that's giving advice on whether or not this is a reputable casino to play with.....

Alongside that, Betfair's behaviour was arguably the biggest instance of unjustified confiscation of funds ever to occur - if you were forced to recommend a bank to customers you wouldn't choose the bank that was the worst culprit in the mis-selling scandle to advocate as a good place to bank with unless they'd made the biggest effort to repair the damage they'd done.

Simply repaying the minority of customers that will step forward here seems a very cheap price to pay to get off with the rest of the players that aren't familiar with this site, and overall Betfair are still likely to come out WAY ahead. I'll respect CMs decision if he decides that fixing the problems that directly affected his community is enough to fix the problem overall - his priority rightly has to be to look after his community - but for my money Befair's reputation will be as mud till they actively seek out all the customers they wronged, pay up and apologise.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just a question to the UK residents and Im not sticking up for anyone.

You see all the ads on TV for PPI saying were you missold. We can get the money back.

Well EVERY BANK in the UK missold PPI. The banks, by some peoples reckoning, could contact all their affected customers and refund the PPI. There would be no need for claims companies or for the FSA.

But ALL UK players will, at this time, be using a bank that has robbed people of their PPI and who have not contacted the customers affected so whats the difference?

The banks have been forced to set aside money to cover all such claims, and have also been forced to use mass media to inform people that they have been misselling PPI, and that people should be checking their statements.


The problem is that the banks deliberately kept incomplete records, such as asking people where they worked. This means that in order for the PPI to have been missold, the claimant has to complete the record by showing that he was self employed or out of work at the time it was sold. This would prove that the bank didn't verify employment status before selling the policy, and hence by definition it was missold.

The banks are doing the least they have to, but already it is unravelling as some have now been forced to set even more money aside because their records underestimated the number of policies missold.


Unlike the banks, Betfair have all the information needed to determine which players violated the terms, and which simply adhered to the terms so exactly that Betfair ended up losing out. The fact that Betfair initially paid winnings shows that this was not about violations of terms, but them belatedly discovering how badly they had screwed up, so they invented a new term and started applying it retrospectively by charging back winnings already paid.


Surely if they intended to put right past mistakes, they would have begun the process long before asking to be removed from the pit, hence it looks like the priority for Betfair was to improve their SEO rather than do the right thing for players.

Unless they follow through though, it will be a short victory, as they could end up back in the pit, which would create a NEW announcement, and possibly an even higher SE ranking than the 2 year old rogue listings are now.

Only time will tell, and if we know any players who got screwed, we should tip them off that Betfair is now in the process of putting things right.

 

[Nifty29]

I do agree that the process is worthwhile if it gets EVERYONE (or their estates etc) paid.

Vinyl.....what was the PPI thingy?